BusConnects - Cyclist Support Vital

Chips Lovell

magicbastarder wrote: »

First images of bendy detour for cycling in Rathmines under BusConnects plan

aldark

its outrageous. Keep the pesky cyclists off the road and send them down quiet neighbourhood roads. I saw a toucan crossing in that plan too - forcing everyone to a pedestrian traffic light - whats that about?

How can a scheme designed to support public transport - or at least to attempt to decrease the number of cars on the road - be so badly designed.

nomdeboardie

:eek: Do they plan to ban cyclists from that section, despite it not being a motorway, I wonder :mad:

eeeee

What. The. Actual. Fcuk. *facepalm*

This isn't the final plan is it? Is there further consultation to be done on it? It's farcical.

ED E

Its pre pre release. That section doesnt go out to consultation until February at the earliest.

eeeee

ED E wrote: »

Its pre pre release. That section doesnt go out to consultation until February at the earliest.

Whereby they can change it if submissions are given?

ED E

They'll "take them onboard".

Really though I think the schools will kick up such a riot on this one that it won't happen.

eeeee

ED E wrote: »

They'll "take them onboard".

Really though I think the schools will kick up such a riot on this one that it won't happen.

I really hope someone does! I'm be sending in my two cents with anyway, for all the good it will do.

It begs belief it really does.

I see a lot of pissed bus drivers (at cyclists being there, and inevitable encroachment of cars) along that routes' future...

The bus companies should be up in arms about it too in fairness, they're gonna have cyclists in their lanes and cars of course flouting the bus lane designation.
Jaysus :rolleyes:

Doc07

nee wrote: »

I really hope someone does! I'm be sending in my two cents with anyway, for all the good it will do.

It begs belief it really does.

I see a lot of pissed bus drivers (at cyclists being there, and inevitable encroachment of cars) along that routes' future...

The bus companies should be up in arms about it too in fairness, they're gonna have cyclists in their lanes and cars of course flouting the bus lane designation.
Jaysus :rolleyes:

Agree. Just read the OP of this thread, pretty funny now.

wheelo01

Absolute joke, and the op wouldn't have a bad word said about the entire plan because it benefitted cyclists.
The NTA have a lot to answer for, ruining a bus service, and now a cycling system.
There may well be bicycle lanes to the specified length, but will they be direct and segregated?

LennoxR

I'll be very clear about this. If they put a ban on cyclists on my two main routes into the city centre: Harolds X and Rathmines, I will not be obeying. Simple as that. This appears to be a very poor plan for cyclists.

schemingbohemia

This type of infrastructure is not what I had in mind when I started this thread!!

Taxuser1

this is horrendous. i've always been more of a power straight line time triallist. Now it appears I will need to work on my cornering and sprinting out of corner technique for the above prologue stage.

LennoxR

Taxuser1 wrote: »

this is horrendous. i've always been more of a power straight line time triallist. Now it appears I will need to work on my cornering and sprinting out of corner technique for the above prologue stage.

You might want to work on your swimming or kayaking skills as well because that route above posits crossing the canal on a currently non-existent bridge. :mad:

magicbastarder

bollocks to that. set up a ramp. have ye not seen 'BMX bandits'?

aldark

I think this is new - its the core bus corridor design for rathfarnham to city centre - including the plans for getting cyclists off the rathmines and rathfarnham roads.

https://busconnects.ie/media/1453/12-busconnects-cbc-rathfarnham-to-city-centre-040119-fa.pdf

Plan in rathfarnham is to redirect cyclists onto brookvale downs, then onto a lane, then onto dodder park road. Brookvale Downs is a quiet residential estate - presumably kids playing, cars reversing onto road etc. Seems bonkers.

There's a new 2 way cyclist only bridge over the dodder proposed. Coming back from town cyclists will have to cross the road to get onto the 2 way track and continue on up to brookvale rd (crossing dodder park road at ped lights) emerging at the entrance to rathfarnham village.

there's a lot of toucan crossings in the plan. I can't understand why cyclists have to be removed from that stretch of rathfarnham - the road is very broad there.

There are 2 routes proposed for rathmines - one keeping it as it is, the 2nd is another horror show of rerouting through residential roads and pedestrian crossing junctions at the canal etc.

I'd imagine that legislation will be introduced to keep cyclists off the quality bus corridors. The rathfarnham and rathmines kludges are far worse than the existing designs - they're busy routes - do the planners really want 1000's of cyclists reduced to really slow stop-start speeds and pressing buttons at traffic lights to cross the road?

loyatemu

aldark wrote: »

I'd imagine that legislation will be introduced to keep cyclists off the quality bus corridors.

there's been no official mention of this - AIUI where alternative routes have been provided they'll be recommended but not mandatory.

The circuitous route through the backstreets of Rathmines is now listed as Plan B. Plan A involves making Rathmines village one-way (for cars) which I imagine will prompt howls of protest from some local interests.

aldark

I know, no mention at all, yet.

But as I see it, this plan is mainly focussed on buses with cycling included for optics only. The NTA would face a lot of criticism after paying a ton of cash to rathgar residents for the 1m of garden space if the buses are still held up with cyclists!

I'd assume that NTA will lobby for legislation to keep cyclists off their brand new bus lanes + whatever other restriction takes their fancy - revisiting mandatory cycle lane use etc.

Weepsie

With the frequency of stops for busses, at rush hour at least (every couple hundred metres), cyclists are really not going to slow them down that often. People will believe what they want to believe though.

Grassey

aldark wrote:

I'd imagine that legislation will be introduced to keep cyclists off the quality bus corridors.

There is literally no way someone on a bike is going to detour off into Brook Vale when the alternative is continue downhill a few hundred meters in a straight line. Legislation or not.

radia

How could it even work? I live nearby and shop (using my bike) in Rathmines regularly. How can they distinguish cyclists for whom Rathmines Road is their destination from those using it as a through route and ban one but not the other?
Also, the proposed squiggly detour introduces significant potential for clashes between cyclists and children at school drop-off points. No cyclist in their right mind would use it when they have the alternative of a grand straight road without rugrats milling around and Chelsea tractors pulling across to stop unpredictably, doors opening into your path etc.

Problem is that punishment passes from buses and taxis will increase because 'you're not entitled to be here'.

All on one of the roads - if not the road - most heavily used by cyclists in the country!

Lunacy.

Fian

aldark wrote: »

I think this is new - its the core bus corridor design for rathfarnham to city centre - including the plans for getting cyclists off the rathmines and rathfarnham roads.

https://busconnects.ie/media/1453/12-busconnects-cbc-rathfarnham-to-city-centre-040119-fa.pdf

Plan in rathfarnham is to redirect cyclists onto brookvale downs, then onto a lane, then onto dodder park road. Brookvale Downs is a quiet residential estate - presumably kids playing, cars reversing onto road etc. Seems bonkers.

There's a new 2 way cyclist only bridge over the dodder proposed. Coming back from town cyclists will have to cross the road to get onto the 2 way track and continue on up to brookvale rd (crossing dodder park road at ped lights) emerging at the entrance to rathfarnham village.

there's a lot of toucan crossings in the plan. I can't understand why cyclists have to be removed from that stretch of rathfarnham - the road is very broad there.

There are 2 routes proposed for rathmines - one keeping it as it is, the 2nd is another horror show of rerouting through residential roads and pedestrian crossing junctions at the canal etc.

I'd imagine that legislation will be introduced to keep cyclists off the quality bus corridors. The rathfarnham and rathmines kludges are far worse than the existing designs - they're busy routes - do the planners really want 1000's of cyclists reduced to really slow stop-start speeds and pressing buttons at traffic lights to cross the road?

On the section of Rathfarnham Road between Main Street and Dodder
Park Road, there is insufficient road width to provide a cycle lane in
either direction. Consequently it is proposed to redirect cyclists from
Rathfarnham Road to Brookvale Road through an existing pedestrian
access. It is intended to widen this access through land take from the
adjacent filling station. Cyclists would be directed through Brookvale
Downs onto a new two-way cycle track on Springfield Avenue
where they join a new cycle lane facility on Rathfarnham Road.
To accommodate the new bus lanes on this section of Rathfarnham
Road, it is proposed to utilise land take from adjacent properties. The
indicative extents of this land take are included in the Appendix of this
brochure. To maintain bus priority through the Dodder Park Road and
Rathfarnham Road, it is intended to provide a bus only signal on the
southern and northern approaches to the junction. The junction will
be upgraded with toucan crossings at all four approaches.
Between this junction and Terenure Road North, it is proposed to
maintain a single bus lane and general traffic lane in both directions.
Cyclists will be served with a two-way cycle track on the west of
Rathfarnham Road. This would require a new cycle bridge over the
Dodder River. At the Rathdown Park junction, it is intended to maintain
bus priority through this junction by providing a bus only signal on the
city bound lane. To accommodate these new bus lanes on this section
of Rathfarnham Road, it is proposed to utilise land take from adjacent
properties. The indicative extents of this land take are included in the
Appendix of this brochure. At the Terenure Road North junction it is
intended to extend the existing bus lane and proposed cycle track as
far as the junction stop line. These additional lanes will be provided
through removal of the existing on-street parking spaces. Bus
movements through this junction will be managed with bus
only signals.

This is really important, the is the first indication I have seen on paper that they are proposing to restrict cyclists from travelling in the bus lanes.

I think this needs to be opposed. The N11 is the only example I need to decide how much reassurance I should take from "but don't worry we will build you a lovely cycle lane to use instead of the road".

The one silver lining though is that it seems ??? they propose to do this in limited places through "bus only signalling" rather than by a general removal of the right to cycle in bus lanes. Or perhaps that is just giving them a longer set of lights?

Rather than taking a circuitous route I could see myself taking the "general traffic" lane as an alternative, if it transpires that cyclists are banned from the bus lane (and i do mean "take the lane".) I suspect the howls of protest from car drivers might get more traction than complaints from cyclists in overturning this proposal, though probably only after it has been put in place.

LennoxR

aldark wrote: »

I think this is new - its the core bus corridor design for rathfarnham to city centre - including the plans for getting cyclists off the rathmines and rathfarnham roads.

https://busconnects.ie/media/1453/12-busconnects-cbc-rathfarnham-to-city-centre-040119-fa.pdf

Plan in rathfarnham is to redirect cyclists onto brookvale downs, then onto a lane, then onto dodder park road. Brookvale Downs is a quiet residential estate - presumably kids playing, cars reversing onto road etc. Seems bonkers.

There's a new 2 way cyclist only bridge over the dodder proposed. Coming back from town cyclists will have to cross the road to get onto the 2 way track and continue on up to brookvale rd (crossing dodder park road at ped lights) emerging at the entrance to rathfarnham village.

there's a lot of toucan crossings in the plan. I can't understand why cyclists have to be removed from that stretch of rathfarnham - the road is very broad there.

There are 2 routes proposed for rathmines - one keeping it as it is, the 2nd is another horror show of rerouting through residential roads and pedestrian crossing junctions at the canal etc.

I'd imagine that legislation will be introduced to keep cyclists off the quality bus corridors. The rathfarnham and rathmines kludges are far worse than the existing designs - they're busy routes - do the planners really want 1000's of cyclists reduced to really slow stop-start speeds and pressing buttons at traffic lights to cross the road?

B*llocks to that. I live in that area and there is no way I would obey a rule like that banning cycling from the main road.


This is scandalous this plan, it really is. Apart from not only being a main commuting corridor for hundreds or thousands of cyclists, the road in question is also the main route for leisure cyclists towards the mountains. Unacceptable.

Furthermore: this:

Between this junction and Terenure Road North, it is proposed to
maintain a single bus lane and general traffic lane in both directions.
Cyclists will be served with a two-way cycle track on the west of
Rathfarnham Road. This would require a new cycle bridge over the
Dodder River.

Is complete pie in the sky BS. There is only one viable crossing point over the river Dodder in this area, between two steeply rising ridges, which are also crowned by houses and private property. And the viable space is occupied by the existing Bridge and the existing Rathfarnham Road. There is no scope whatsoever for a new cycle bridge over the Dodder even if this were likely to be funded. I'm getting angry about this now.

Grassey

So does this compliment... Or contradict... Or ignore the dodder greenway plans then?

My reading would be that there will now be a two way shared surface on each side of the road... Built under 2 different projects, that look to fail at integrating.

Springfield Avenue to Rathfarnham Road Junction

• Reduce carriageway width down to 6.5m and form a 4m wide shared surface along the northern side of the carriageway. The existing footpath, cycle track and shared surface along the southern side of the carriageway is to be retained.

buffalo

Fian wrote: »

This is really important, the is the first indication I have seen on paper that they are proposing to restrict cyclists from travelling in the bus lanes.

Which part are you talking about?

Fian

This part (amongst others):

On the section of Rathfarnham Road between Main Street and Dodder
Park Road, there is insufficient road width to provide a cycle lane in
either direction. Consequently it is proposed to redirect cyclists from
Rathfarnham Road to Brookvale Road through an existing pedestrian
access.

Chips Lovell

My reading of that is that it just refers to the cycle lane though? It says nothing about restricting cyclists from using the bus lane if they prefer.

Budawanny

LennoxR wrote: »

B*llocks to that. I live in that area and there is no way I would obey a rule like that banning cycling from the main road.


This is scandalous this plan, it really is. Apart from not only being a main commuting corridor for hundreds or thousands of cyclists, the road in question is also the main route for leisure cyclists towards the mountains. Unacceptable.

Furthermore: this:

Between this junction and Terenure Road North, it is proposed to
maintain a single bus lane and general traffic lane in both directions.
Cyclists will be served with a two-way cycle track on the west of
Rathfarnham Road. This would require a new cycle bridge over the
Dodder River.

Is complete pie in the sky BS. There is only one viable crossing point over the river Dodder in this area, between two steeply rising ridges, which are also crowned by houses and private property. And the viable space is occupied by the existing Bridge and the existing Rathfarnham Road. There is no scope whatsoever for a new cycle bridge over the Dodder even if this were likely to be funded. I'm getting angry about this now.

I'm not sure about the Terenure Road North junction concerns you have. If you take this plan at face value ( I know) then the continuation of the cycleway is predicated on land take for the bus lane anyway. if there are space requirements they can be met.
but if you visualise 3/4 metres of bridge literally right to the west side of the road bridge, then its easily feasible I think.

if you look at the appendix map you can see that the cycle bridge is parallel to the road bridge so is nothing dramatic.

LennoxR

Budawanny wrote: »

I'm not sure about the Terenure Road North junction concerns you have. If you take this plan at face value ( I know) then the continuation of the cycleway is predicated on land take for the bus lane anyway. if there are space requirements they can be met.
but if you visualise 3/4 metres of bridge literally right to the west side of the road bridge, then its easily feasible I think.

if you look at the appendix map you can see that the cycle bridge is parallel to the road bridge so is nothing dramatic.

Right well, first of all that's assuming it would actually be built, at great expense, for no good reason. All of which I doubt.

But secondly, it's a very old bridge, 19th century or earlier, not at all easy to expand. And thirdly, the land take that would make this possible, if I am envisaging it correctly, would run into major objections I would imagine from the very wealthy property owners on the Terenure side of the river.

In any case, call me cynical but I would say that the cycling infra will never be built.

ED E

Word is they're not banning cycles from bus lanes. I can't point to that in black and white, yet.