The Joker movie - starring Joaquin Phoenix (MOD: May contain Spoilers)

homerun_homer

Gavin1986 wrote: »

Joker shook me to the core. This film has a very deep meaning, IMHO, precisely because of Joaquin’s part. But have to say, Todd Philips also nailed it! They created a great movie that gives pause for reflection...

I am curious about what meaning others are getting from the film as I can't see a meaning or message from it at all.

homerun_homer

homerun_homer wrote: »

I am curious about what meaning others are getting from the film as I can't see a meaning or message from it at all.

Yeah I saw a pretty good Joker origin story.

Crazy man with a gun, ok I can see how people might see a connection but I'm sorry joker has always been crazy and it's not like we haven't seen a mad man with a gun in cinema before.

It reminds me of the fuss made when the Two Towers came out a year after 9/11. "You cant call it that..."

It can be really exhausting having peoples opinions thrust upon you all the time.

Mark Hamill

homerun_homer wrote: »

I am curious about what meaning others are getting from the film as I can't see a meaning or message from it at all.

Is the message not laid out clearly when he shoots De Niro?
"What do you get when you cross a mentally ill loner with a society that abandons him and treats him like trash?!
I’ll tell you what you get! You get what you f**king deserve!"

Foxtrol

Mark Hamill wrote: »

Is the message not laid out clearly when he shoots De Niro?
"What do you get when you cross a mentally ill loner with a society that abandons him and treats him like trash?!
I’ll tell you what you get! You get what you f**king deserve!"

But that message is hardly deep nor one that we don't already see in TV and movies on a pretty regular basis. Hardly something that should shake many 'to the core'.

homerun_homer

Mark Hamill wrote: »

Is the message not laid out clearly when he shoots De Niro?
"What do you get when you cross a mentally ill loner with a society that abandons him and treats him like trash?!
I’ll tell you what you get! You get what you f**king deserve!"

I wouldn't call that a deep meaning to the film. Mental illness cannot be summed up in such a sentence, it's ridiculous.

Effects

I spotted an add in the paper today for a screening with live orchestra playing with it.
Tickets are €70. Holy god that's expensive.

Foxtrol

Effects wrote: »

I spotted an add in the paper today for a screening with live orchestra playing with it.
Tickets are €70. Holy god that's expensive.

Was the score even good enough to merit paying to see it live, even if it wasn't that expensive?

I've gone to a few of these sort of events in the past and they are usually for movies with historically top tier scores. The one for Joker was good, at an understandable nomination for awards level, but I wouldn't put it close to top tier. Are they just cashing in on hype from the movie or am I missing something?

Mark Hamill

Foxtrol wrote: »

But that message is hardly deep nor one that we don't already see in TV and movies on a pretty regular basis. Hardly something that should shake many 'to the core'.

homerun_homer wrote: »

I wouldn't call that a deep meaning to the film. Mental illness cannot be summed up in such a sentence, it's ridiculous.

Oh, I'm not saying the message is deep or should shake anyone 'to the core', I did find that to be a bit of a ridiculous statement. I was only pointing out to homerun_homer that the movie does have a clear (if obvious and cliched) message.

The White Wolf

Foxtrol wrote: »

Was the score even good enough to merit paying to see it live, even if it wasn't that expensive?

I've gone to a few of these sort of events in the past and they are usually for movies with historically top tier scores. The one for Joker was good, at an understandable nomination for awards level, but I wouldn't put it close to top tier. Are they just cashing in on hype from the movie or am I missing something?

Given the score has been lauded and nominated generally across the board, it's certainly good enough. Not the bombastic work of Zimmer or Williams that typically gets the live treatment, but I can certainly see a show being put on to the sound of a live orchestra.

I mean when you think about it performance through dance and music is a big part of the film, so it really is made for this type of show.

Heckler

The only movie I've watched twice in recent memory. Phoenix was mesmerising. While Ledgers Joker was outstanding I think this iteration and Phoenixs' performance is the new standard. Its how I always thought of Joker. Whatever about oscars I'm sure he's not too pushed but I hope he wins, deserved I think.

Foxtrol

The White Wolf wrote: »

Given the score has been lauded and nominated generally across the board, it's certainly good enough. Not the bombastic work of Zimmer or Williams that typically gets the live treatment, but I can certainly see a show being put on to the sound of a live orchestra.

I mean when you think about it performance through dance and music is a big part of the film, so it really is made for this type of show.

I can't agree with that argument that every movie nominated or lauded is worth getting that live orchestra treatment. I certainly wouldn't be shelling out money for them anyway, most simply aren't worth it.

Music is a big part of the film but what they heavily leaned on was not the original score itself but other famous songs, and this is the case for most of the 'iconic' scenes. There's a reason why they kept the original vocals and instruments in the movie rather than covers.

homerun_homer

Mark Hamill wrote: »

Oh, I'm not saying the message is deep or should shake anyone 'to the core', I did find that to be a bit of a ridiculous statement. I was only pointing out to homerun_homer that the movie does have a clear (if obvious and cliched) message.

Oh I know the obvious message. Todd Philips batters you over the head with it. It’s just that I don’t find it or the film deep, and marvel that others do find it to be. This ‘message’ is also completely ruined by the above mentioned quote too by defining mental illness in such a way. “Treat me nice or else I’ll kill you” essentially.

blade1

What's all this need for a message?

It's the entertainment business.
Is a good performance and a good film not enough?

Must it have a deep message or help save the planet and not offend people or wake people to be good enough?

Foxtrol

blade1 wrote: »

What's all this need for a message?

It's the entertainment business.
Is a good performance and a good film not enough?

Must it have a deep message or help save the planet and not offend people or wake people to be good enough?

There isn't but some folk who are big fans of this movie have tried to force messages and layers onto it to make it appear to have much more depth and uniqueness than it actually does

JP Liz V1

Heckler wrote: »

The only movie I've watched twice in recent memory. Phoenix was mesmerising. While Ledgers Joker was outstanding I think this iteration and Phoenixs' performance is the new standard. Its how I always thought of Joker. Whatever about oscars I'm sure he's not too pushed but I hope he wins, deserved I think.

Joaquin won the Oscar

Margate

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Joaquin won the Oscar

Neither version are anything like the joker

nix

Margate wrote: »

Neither version are anything like the joker

Like which joker?

The White Wolf

Whichever way you slice it DC/WB own a specific character that has produced two oscars in the last 12 years. That's crazy. What an achievement.

El Duda

One things for sure, there's no way the academy will reward a third Joker!

blade1

El Duda wrote: »

One things for sure, there's no way the academy will reward a third Joker!

What if it's the best film ever?

Gwynplaine

El Duda wrote: »

One things for sure, there's no way the academy will reward a third Joker!

Theres no fear of Jared Leto getting the nod anyway. The worst abomination of a character ever. Cringeworthy up to 100%, I actually couldn't believe what I was seeing when watching Suicide Squad.

Foxtrol

The White Wolf wrote: »

Whichever way you slice it DC/WB own a specific character that has produced two oscars in the last 12 years. That's crazy. What an achievement.

One of the few times that an achievement is also an indictment on the studio for what a mess they've made of their properties.

Outlaw Pete

Effects wrote: »

I spotted an add in the paper today for a screening with live orchestra playing with it.
Tickets are €70. Holy god that's expensive.

Christ, I was going to go but not at that price. €25-€35 would be fair enough, but €70 is nuts.

They have Blade Runner at €55 on March 29th. Again, would have went but those prices are crazy.

I seen Psycho in the NCH with an orchestra and it didn't cost that much.

Zeek12

Watched this at the weekend.
Strong central performance from Phoenix. Shot very well in a number of scenes and it captured the early 80's era quite nicely.

But ultimately I found this quite a hollow and derivative experience.

Director wore his influences far too much and too obviously on his sleeve.
The King of Comedy references imo far exceeded any kind of homage - to the point of being a lazy parody, right down to the casting of De Niro.

I was actually cringing slightly at the

The French Connection-style subway scene too where Arthur shot the third guy

.

There's a good reason why great scenes from classics should not be rehashed/rebooted.

IamtheWalrus

Didn't enjoy this. Joker's fake-laugh got on my wick. Felt no emotional response to any characters (aside from Joker's love interest).

peteeeed

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

Didn't enjoy this. Joker's fake-laugh got on my wick. Felt no emotional response to any characters (aside from Joker's love interest).

i've watched it 3 times and i thought phoenix portrayed someone trying to fight the laugh/condition really well

MfMan

El Duda wrote: »

One things for sure, there's no way the academy will reward a third Joker!

As an aside, which role/historical figure has been the subject of three nominations?

mikhail

MfMan wrote: »

As an aside, which role/historical figure has been the subject of three nominations?

Don Vito Corleone has been a winner for two actors - De Niro and Brando (who refused it, instead sending a Native American in Apaché costume to protest the depiction of Native Americans by Hollywood!). Pachino was nominated for awards all three times, but only for a Golden Globe for Part 3, so I doubt that's what you mean.

MfMan

mikhail wrote: »

Don Vito Corleone has been a winner for two actors - De Niro and Brando (who refused it, instead sending a Native American in Apaché costume to protest the depiction of Native Americans by Hollywood!). Pachino was nominated for awards all three times, but only for a Golden Globe for Part 3, so I doubt that's what you mean.

No, thinking of a specific historical figure who has been portrayed (at least) three times in Oscar-nominated performances.

Brief_Lives

MfMan wrote: »

No, thinking of a specific historical figure who has been portrayed (at least) three times in Oscar-nominated performances.

great question..... any clue for us?