The Joker movie - starring Joaquin Phoenix (MOD: May contain Spoilers)

Drumpot

pixelburp wrote: »

Why though? I mean sure, they're professionals but to me that just means I expect grammar and punctuation to be better than most. You've reasoned on the key difference though: Film Critics should be expected to rationalise their enjoyment of a film with more articulation, nuance - or just enjoyable, readable prose - than us mere mortals. Otherwise, newspapers would just have bullet point summaries, final scores and statistics. Clearly there's more to news, reviews, and editorials than key figures or percentage points.

Demanding professional critics put aside their very human biases is totally unrealistic, ditto this idea that they be immune to any communal / herd mentalities the rest of us suffer from. We're all susceptible, yet it's a cheap attack on professional critics for being something almost none of them claim to be - experts. Most will simply say they love film and want to share that love in prose or podcast. The era of the "Anton Ego" style critic is long dead (aside from food criticism perhaps)

I think I already said in this thread, one of the reasons I enjoy Mark Kermode is because he tries to give a sense of what a film "feels" like, or - as he'll often say - what it's "really about". He's enjoyable to listen to not because I want to know what films to watch - I post here so it's probably fair to say I'm on the pulse? - but because he's a Film Fan Done Good, and tells a good story himself.

I find that to be true across most media: "critics" tend to simply be fans who put that love into a career, to share their own enjoyment, criticism, thoughts or perspectives. It's the audiences that appear to divine expertise, or presume superior knowledge.

So In summary, Don’t blame the player, blame the game?

You make some good points but the main issue made stands. I don’t think a person Is really reviewing the quality of a movie if they are judging it based on their own prejudices or political leanings or getting swept up in whatever is the popular moral outrage of the day.

So perhaps all reviews are just different levels of misguided subjective waffle and we all veer towards reviewers who have views aligned with our own sentiments which has little to do with quality of movie. The way it’s articulated may actually define how one relates to the review.

pixelburp

Drumpot wrote: »

So perhaps all reviews are just different levels of misguided subjective waffle and we all veer towards reviewers who have views aligned with our own sentiments which has little to do with quality of movie.

Pretty much. Doubly so in the grand era of the internet, when You Too Can Be a Film Critic! But for me, so long as it's entertaining, well-written subjective waffle, I won't mind or care about someone's pre-conceived biases.

Obviously, you'll always get writers & critics who can't help but inject political bias where it is underserved or just ludicrous (as example, I'm drawn to the 'reviews' shared on the Toy Story 4 thread, shrieking over it being pro-socialism and 'gay agenda'), but no more than the guy in the bar who rants about all things, they're easy enough to ignore

RocketRaccoon

The White Wolf wrote: »

Good on you in that case. It takes some commitment and interest in the form that you'd watch that many films and not have critics you would listen to in particular for their analysis if nothing else.

I can read them but it doesn't mean I take their opinion on a movie on board when it comes to forming my own.

Drumpot

pixelburp wrote: »

Pretty much. Doubly so in the grand era of the internet, when You Too Can Be a Film Critic! But for me, so long as it's entertaining, well-written subjective waffle, I won't mind or care about someone's pre-conceived biases.

Obviously, you'll always get writers & critics who can't help but inject political bias where it is underserved or just ludicrous (as example, I'm drawn to the 'reviews' shared on the Toy Story 4 thread, shrieking over it being pro-socialism and 'gay agenda'), but no more than the guy in the bar who rants about all things, they're easy enough to ignore

I like the cut of your Jib.

The White Wolf

This is the first film in a long time that I think a second viewing in the cinema is needed. Once you digest it you'll realise just how much of a

unreliable narrator/POV Fleck is.

It's deceptively loyal to the character's comic roots.

Shred

Really looking forward to this at 6pm in the IFI but braced for possibly not loving it initially too!

The Nal

Just out. Loved it!

ronano

I really enjoyed it

The White Wolf

The Nal wrote: »

Just out. Loved it!

What did you think about the ending? Makes you question whether the whole film happened in Arthur's head and that he never got out of his first incarceration.

The more I think about it the film is class.

Man Vs ManUre

Who will win best actor Oscar Joaquin or DiCaprio??

micar

The White Wolf wrote: »

What did you think about the ending? Makes you question whether the whole film happened in Arthur's head and that he never got out of his first incarceration.

The more I think about it the film is class.

Yes ....yes....yes......that's why I'd like to see it a second time

The Nal

The White Wolf wrote: »

What did you think about the ending? Makes you question whether the whole film happened in Arthur's head and that he never got out of his first incarceration.

The more I think about it the film is class.

Yeah! But with young Bruce Wayne looking up I think it was real. Joker in Arkham until Bruce turns into Batman.

Maybe...

shrewdness

The White Wolf wrote: »

What did you think about the ending? Makes you question whether the whole film happened in Arthur's head and that he never got out of his first incarceration.

The more I think about it the film is class.

Christ, I didn't think about that possibility. Obviously there are parts that he completely imagined or just dreamt of in his head(being in the crowd at Murray's show, going out with the neighbour), but I hadn't considered the whole thing being in his head. I assumed the bloody footprints in the hall at the end, implying he killed the one interviewing him, shows who he had become and show the overall events had happened. But who knows.

Certainly warrants a second viewing, I loved it.

Relikk

Apart from a few minor gripes, I enjoyed this very much. Much more than I thought I would. As always, Phoenix is excellent. Solid 7/10 movie.

The subway murders. He shot eight times from that gun. The first guy in the head, the second guy twice in the chest, the third guy in the leg, the back and then three times from close range to finish him off. I don't remember seeing him reload the gun at any stage during that sequence. That's a pretty big oversight from the editors. But, then again, I won't rule out the possibility of it being an 8 chamber barrel.

The whole Murray Franklin Show aspect was a little too "King of Comedy" for my liking, which is weird because it has De Niro doing a role reversal, of sorts.

I didn't need to be told in flashbacks that his relationship with Sophie was a delusion after he showed up at her apartment the final time.

Man Vs ManUre

‘You were never really there’ is on Film4 tonight. Haven’t seen it yet or Joker, but I heard Pheonix is even better in this earlier film.

Relikk

Man Vs ManUre wrote: »

‘You were never really there’ is on Film4 tonight. Haven’t seen it yet or Joker, but I heard Pheonix is even better in this earlier film.

Great movie, indeed. Must watch it again.

Dyr

Man Vs ManUre wrote: »

‘You were never really there’ is on Film4 tonight. Haven’t seen it yet or Joker, but I heard Pheonix is even better in this earlier film.

I thought I'd love it, started skipping scenes fairly soon in and turned it off after about 40 minutes

Can't be listening to someone who mumbles and slurs like Elvis on Mogadon

Spon Farmer

Saw Joker earlier.

Great movie and great performances.

I was disappointed that Marc Maron had such a small insignificant role. I read part of an interview and took his comments to mean he had a big part.

I like that Thomas Wayne was not portrayed as a saint but I think it would have been nice if Alfred had shown Arthur a little sympathy - but perhaps he sensed the man was too far gone.

I don't get all the worry and talk that the film will incite violence.

I would like to see Jaoquin Phoenix take on Batman in the future.

El Duda

Excellent film. Truly superb and great to Todd Phillip's prove all the doubters wrong.

Cant help but think that it being part of the Batman universe didn't really add anything. You could easily write that stuff out and still have an equally great film. I completely get that it's a huge marketing opportunity tho.

Phoenix needs the Oscar. This performance will live through the ages.

You cant really ignore the fact that it has political overtones. Especially about mental health. I think it tackles the issue really well.

McGrath5

Phoenix is superb in the role, runtime flew by. Well recommended.

c.p.w.g.w

Just back, not overly enthused by it. Thought it was ok but JP was brilliant

SexBobomb

Just out of a packed showing, really liked it and Phoenix was a great choice for that role, knocked it out of the park. I loved the risks it took and the choices Todd Phillips made for the most part. Would recommend

Relikk wrote: »

Apart from a few minor gripes, I enjoyed this very much. Much more than I thought I would. As always, Phoenix is excellent. Solid 7/10 movie.

The subway murders. He shot eight times from that gun. The first guy in the head, the second guy twice in the chest, the third guy in the leg, the back and then three times from close range to finish him off. I don't remember seeing him reload the gun at any stage during that sequence. That's a pretty big oversight from the editors. But, then again, I won't rule out the possibility of it being an 8 chamber barrel..

I started to doubt if he did it at all at one point he was such an unreliable narrator, but they seemed to confirm he did do it.

Relikk wrote: »

I didn't need to be told in flashbacks that his relationship with Sophie was a delusion after he showed up at her apartment the final time.

Totally agree that was the only thing I didn't like, I can imagine that was a note given to Phillips by studio Execs, "people wont get it !" please

SexBobomb

"You Shouldn't See 'Joker' This Weekend" by Phil Pirrello

Pretty disappointing to read this kind of stuff, if you don't like it cool give a bad review but jeez.
I usually enjoy their content as well but I'll be looking elsewhere from now on.

https://nofilmschool.com/joker-movie-should-you-see-it

IamMetaldave

Just out of it, absolutely superb. 100% a second spin of it over the weekend.

jk23

SexBobomb wrote: »

"You Shouldn't See 'Joker' This Weekend" by Phil Pirrello

Pretty disappointing to read this kind of stuff, if you don't like it cool give a bad review but jeez.
I usually enjoy their content as well but I'll be looking elsewhere from now on.

https://nofilmschool.com/joker-movie-should-you-see-it

In the climate in America and around the world it gives attention seeking journalists the perfect opportunity to slate it because of the demographic that will like it. I hope it smashes box office records to spite this...

Shred

So good, lots to think about. I’d imagine a second viewing (and beyond) will be rewarding.

Shred

SexBobomb wrote: »

"You Shouldn't See 'Joker' This Weekend" by Phil Pirrello

Pretty disappointing to read this kind of stuff, if you don't like it cool give a bad review but jeez.
I usually enjoy their content as well but I'll be looking elsewhere from now on.

https://nofilmschool.com/joker-movie-should-you-see-it

Attention seeking bullshít (I didn’t even bother clicking) - ignore and move on!

Slydice

Just back. Saw it in 2D IMAX.
This does not need a big screen. You can definitley save your money.

Anyway..
Eh.. a lot of that was boring. Trailer gave away a lot.

Then they scored an own goal..
Here's how he looks when

he's imagining something (tv show)

Then just after, here's him

looking the exact same with his new girlfriend.. uhuh "sure buddy"

So that just left the

TV show and final bit of street violence.

I could see them going for

a kinda shock value in the TV show but it didn't transfer in feeling

Some scenery scenes were done well and two people scenes:

• Young Bruce looking Dark and then having the Halo
• The scene where
  Joker is in the cop car leaning his head against the window. It somehow reminded me of Heath Ledger

The soundtrack was very good. Unfortunatley, you can't just borrow the new Sicario composer and hope her excellent dark music is gonna make your film for you. (Hildur Guðnadóttir, no really check out her music and the music of Sicario 1 composer Jóhann Jóhannsson)

Slydice wrote: »

Is that Bruce Wayne, Martha Wayne and Thomas Wayne leaving a theatre at the short moment scene at 2:11?

Are they gonna do the Wayne murders in this?

well... :rolleyes:

SexBobomb

Shred wrote: »

Attention seeking bullshít (I didn’t even bother clicking) - ignore and move on!

Hopefully your right and these pearl clutching attitudes don't have an impact on the industry.

OU812

That was a really uncomfortable watch. Incredible performance.

Could easily fit in as a prequel to the Nolan batman movies.

Likewise, they could have removed Gotham, Arkham & the Waynes and it would have stood on its own.

I don’t understand why they changed Joker’s back story though.