The Frederick St protest and reaction

AlekSmart

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Sure it was just like the water charge protests Johnny, every second comment referenced Derek Byrne now it's Cash. Funny enough it's the same posters aswell.

A c'mon now,Derek was more than capable of referencing for everybody,as indeed is Ms Cash...perhaps they have the same agent..?

Calltocall

Ace2007 wrote: »

The land would be the major issue. then there is planning permission/objections etc.

Thanks, would the planning permission not come from the council though, It may be over simplifying but I find it odd that in the midst of a housing crisis the council/government sign off on huge builds which accomodate 500 plus students yet cannot look after people who need an actual home, are there no veto powers, I’m not anti student for a second but we are in a crisis and find it bizarre that we constantly hear that we cannot build here/there from the government yet prime city centre locations are flipped and built with lightning speed without anyone saying hang on could these sites not accommodate people who need a home

All Seeing Eye

The Irish homeless crisis should be in the conspiracy theories forum. It doesn’t exist!

matrim

Calltocall wrote: »

I May be going a little off topic here but something ive been curious/puzzled about how come huge blocks of student accomodation can go up in the city centre in lightning speed, I speak of one at the corner of summerhill and gardiner street and another on dorset street, there a few more and im speaking major developments in a matter of months yet our government are paralysed to get new builds off the ground for citizens accomodation, genuinely curious as to what’s going on here, what’s the major difference?

That place in summerhill first applied for planning in 2014. The actual building part can be done quickly. The slow part is getting the land and planning

Ace2007

Calltocall wrote: »

Thanks, would the planning permission not come from the council though, It may be over simplifying but I find it odd that in the midst of a housing crisis the council/government sign off on huge builds which accomodate 500 plus students yet cannot look after people who need an actual home, are there no veto powers, I’m not anti student for a second but we are in a crisis and find it bizarre that we constantly hear that we cannot build here/there from the government yet prime city centre locations are flipped and built with lightning speed without anyone saying hang on could these sites not accommodate people who need a home

matrim wrote: »

That place in summerhill first applied for planning in 2014. The actual building part can be done quickly. The slow part is getting the land and planning

As matrim said.

In addition it's not so long ago that there were saying we don't have enough student accommodation, hence they were built.

Again you say the people who need a home - who are these people really? like I said before if your in emergency accommodation, why not move outside of Dublin where you can put roof over your families head, and maybe save a little and get back on your feet - of course it won't be easy but it will be better than being in emergency accommodation.

Then who builds these homes that you want the government to build? what happens if the government house these homeless people and they refuse to pay rent. Imagine the uproar if the government then kicked them out of the houses. You see there are many issues with giving people houses/apartments than people ever seem to think about.

Imagine if a person ended up homeless because of bad choices that they made, and where handed accommodation in prime city centre location. why would anyone work their a$$ off for anything in life, if that government did that? Be honest?

There are the genuine cases of people in trouble, however you don't hear about those cases in the media, you hear about the 20 something year old with 4/5/6/7 kids. It's a game for the media to attack the government and those in power, instead of highlighting the real issues.

Calltocall

Ace2007 wrote: »

As matrim said.

In addition it's not so long ago that there were saying we don't have enough student accommodation, hence they were built.

Again you say the people who need a home - who are these people really? like I said before if your in emergency accommodation, why not move outside of Dublin where you can put roof over your families head, and maybe save a little and get back on your feet - of course it won't be easy but it will be better than being in emergency accommodation.

Then who builds these homes that you want the government to build? what happens if the government house these homeless people and they refuse to pay rent. Imagine the uproar if the government then kicked them out of the houses. You see there are many issues with giving people houses/apartments than people ever seem to think about.

Imagine if a person ended up homeless because of bad choices that they made, and where handed accommodation in prime city centre location. why would anyone work their a$$ off for anything in life, if that government did that? Be honest?

There are the genuine cases of people in trouble, however you don't hear about those cases in the media, you hear about the 20 something year old with 4/5/6/7 kids. It's a game for the media to attack the government and those in power, instead of highlighting the real issues.

Fair points you make, not disagreeing with what you are saying in principle, I keep reading about shortage of supply driving up prices and then seeing large builds going up in city centre but that aren’t for sale etc, seems counterproductive, is it not possible for the government to actually build or to aquire land where houses/apartments must be built, I’ve read about the governments over reliance on paying out hap payments etc however it’s not really getting the best bang for their buck and would make more sense to invest in longer term solutions rather than huge monthly rental payments.

Guy:Incognito

NasserShammaz wrote: »

Any in Dublin, I work in Dublin/ Kids go to school in Dublin , there's employment in what i'm trained in in Dublin, extended family are around Dublin,childcare afterschool Doctor are in Dublin , if its OK with you I want to live in Dublin

Bullsh*t logic , Im sure theres plenty of empty houses in Alleppo sur why don't all the syrians go there.

The same could be said for all the people that moved from Dublin to places like Portlaois over the last 15 years or so. Why is it ok for people that have to buy their own houses but not for people looking for council houses?

Guy:Incognito

BBFAN wrote: »

Why does everyone keep quoting Leitrim? Who says Leitrim wants all the unemployed people in the country to move there? There's a reason the houses are so cheap. There are NO JOBS THERE.

Well if it's the unemployed getting sent down it hardly matters . If anything their dole should stretch further down there as prices of plenty of things should be cheaper.

Guy:Incognito

Calltocall wrote: »

I May be going a little off topic here but something ive been curious/puzzled about how come huge blocks of student accomodation can go up in the city centre in lightning speed, I speak of one at the corner of summerhill and gardiner street and another on dorset street, there a few more and im speaking major developments in a matter of months yet our government are paralysed to get new builds off the ground for citizens accomodation, genuinely curious as to what’s going on here, what’s the major difference?

Ask the builders building them.

There are plenty of housing estates being built around Dublin btw.

PlaneSpeeking

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

The same could be said for all the people that moved from Dublin to places like Portlaois over the last 15 years or so. Why is it ok for people that have to buy their own houses but not for people looking for council houses?

I've done the Laois to Dublin daily commute for more than a decade.

You can imagine how much sympathy I had for the poster child Ms C when she whined about the LUAS journey can't you ?

blanch152

NasserShammaz wrote: »

Any in Dublin, I work in Dublin/ Kids go to school in Dublin , there's employment in what i'm trained in in Dublin, extended family are around Dublin,childcare afterschool Doctor are in Dublin , if its OK with you I want to live in Dublin

Bullsh*t logic , Im sure theres plenty of empty houses in Alleppo sur why don't all the syrians go there.

There isn't enough room in Dublin City Council area for all of the people who want to live in the area - especially when it seems that a house with a back garden and a trampoline is the minimum demand.

Those who work have to live well outside Dublin, why shouldn't those who don't work also live well outside Dublin?

High-rise in Dublin is one solution, but you can't put a trampoline on a balcony, though I am sure someone will try.

PlaneSpeeking

blanch152 wrote: »

There isn't enough room in Dublin City Council area for all of the people who want to live in the area - especially when it seems that a house with a back garden and a trampoline is the minimum demand.

Those who work have to live well outside Dublin, why shouldn't those who don't work also live well outside Dublin?

High-rise in Dublin is one solution, but you can't put a trampoline on a balcony, though I am sure someone will try.

Oh the reply I want to give to that would get a ban so quick!!!!!!

McMurphy

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

I've done the Laois to Dublin daily commute for more than a decade.

You can imagine how much sympathy I had for the poster child Ms C when she whined about the LUAS journey can't you ?

No need to imagine anything, any of your 730+ posts on that thread should be a good enough indicator for anyone.

Jesus lad, that's borderline infatuation/obsessive.

Have you ever considered channelling all that hatred into producing a newsletter or a blog?

PlaneSpeeking

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

No need to imagine anything, any of your 730+ posts on that thread should be a good enough indicator for anyone.

Jesus lad, that's borderline infatuation/obsessive.

Have you ever considered channelling all that hatred into producing a newsletter or a blog?

1. Woman, not lad.
2. Stalk much ?
3. Blogs are for self obsessed losers. Feel free to provide the URL of yours.
4. Hatred is entirely justified and I imagine I know exactly the reason why you chose that particular word, eh ?

JohnnyFlash

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

No need to imagine anything, any of your 730+ posts on that thread should be a good enough indicator for anyone.

Jesus lad, that's borderline infatuation/obsessive.

Have you ever considered channelling all that hatred into producing a newsletter or a blog?

No offence, John, but you don’t exactly strike me as the type to let things go either. Bit obsessive yourself about all things FG and government. Suggest you take a ‘chill pill’. Maybe go for a nice walk or sommit.

hatrickpatrick

Ace2007 wrote: »

Imagine if a person ended up homeless because of bad choices that they made, and where handed accommodation in prime city centre location. why would anyone work their a$$ off for anything in life, if that government did that? Be honest?

Because the vast majority of people will always want luxuries in life, will always want to upgrade from the basic quality of life which should be guaranteed by the social safety net of which social housing is a part. Housing should not be considered a luxury, and communities should come first (not this right wing "prime city centre location" attitude which continues to treat land and housing as nothing more than a financial asset and not anything with any deeper philosophical value in terms of how human society works)

Those who seem to think that ruthlessly smashing up communities by putting money first obviously just have a personality type which can easily cope with loneliness. Most humans do not. Some people can do the whole "start a totally new life and abandon every human who's been in your life up until now", most people cannot do this without psychological turmoil. Subjecting people to that in the interests of right wing ideology is morally abhorrent.

BBFAN

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

1. Woman, not lad.
2. Stalk much ?
3. Blogs are for self obsessed losers. Feel free to provide the URL of yours.
4. Hatred is entirely justified and I imagine I know exactly the reason why you chose that particular word, eh ?

You genuinely believe that hatred is justified??

If you hate people you've never even met you need to get help.

BBFAN

Not sure of the age demographic on here but either a lot of people are younger than forty or you all have very short memories if you don't remember a time when the only people who lived in city centres were from "working class or lower class" backgrounds.

Now all of sudden because there's a lot of jobs in city centres all these people should feck off to Leitrim so the upper class can move in. Biggest load of snobby crap I've ever heard in my life.

sexmag

BBFAN wrote: »

Not sure of the age demographic on here but either a lot of people are younger than forty or you all have very short memories if you don't remember a time when the only people who lived in city centres were from "working class or lower class" backgrounds.

Now all of sudden because there's a lot of jobs in city centres all these people should feck off to Leitrim so the upper class can move in. Biggest load of snobby crap I've ever heard in my life.

Well the working people for years had to move further and further out to afford housing and still keep their jobs.

These suggestions are turning it on its head and decide to give people who in the vast case haven't contributed to society when the people on the outter and further belts had to scarface loads to have a home, the resentment is justified in my opinion.

The people who have homes aren't asking to be housed in the city,there demanding that people who want free/social housing do so in the further reaches where they had to go but these people won't accept that and will happily live in emergency accommodation until something opens up in years to come,it's a fair point

Hitman3000

JohnnyFlash wrote:

No offence, John, but you don’t exactly strike me as the type to let things go either. Bit obsessive yourself about all things FG and government. Suggest you take a ‘chill pill’. Maybe go for a nice walk or sommit.

In fairness it is legitimate to criticize government and their policies if you disagree with them. It's also fair to have a go at M Cash as she is quite active online herself and draws some legitimate criticism because of her comments. What is not right is attacking Cash's children as has been done by several posters here. The children are not at fault no matter what side of the debate you are on.

Thatnastyboy

BBFAN wrote: »

Not sure of the age demographic on here but either a lot of people are younger than forty or you all have very short memories if you don't remember a time when the only people who lived in city centres were from "working class or lower class" backgrounds.

Now all of sudden because there's a lot of jobs in city centres all these people should feck off to Leitrim so the upper class can move in. Biggest load of snobby crap I've ever heard in my life.

It's called gentrification, has occured in basically every major city in the world, mostly because - 70% (or so) of todays jobs didnt exist 30 years ago,

Many/most jobs of yore were labour intensive, and generally lower paid, so you had the working class living in working areas - close to factories and industry (that are now largely long gone)

We now have a country built on a lot of tech jobs, which are usually office based, hence needing more office space, a lot of these jobs are very highly paid, so the workers have money for nice fancy apartments close to their jobs, so unfortunately the lower paid workers (like me), cannot afford to live in these central areas any more. There is definitely no need for people who don't work to live in areas of large demand. (remember - the more money spent by people, the more money filters back through the economy)

I don't see why this is so terrible, we really have emerged from the dark ages in this country, no matter what people try to paint it as.

Our housing crisis is no better or worse than the same thing you see on a global basis, you will always have the "haves" and the "have nots" or else you can pursue the model where noone has anything.

We do have a major issue with the cost of rents though, and this needs to be sorted - whether its a supply issue or a rent-capping issue, I dont know, but hopefully someone does have a logical solution to this...

BBFAN

sexmag wrote: »

Well the working people for years had to move further and further out to afford housing and still keep their jobs.

These suggestions are turning it on its head and decide to give people who in the vast case haven't contributed to society when the people on the outter and further belts had to scarface loads to have a home, the resentment is justified in my opinion.

The people who have homes aren't asking to be housed in the city,there demanding that people who want free/social housing do so in the further reaches where they had to go but these people won't accept that and will happily live in emergency accommodation until something opens up in years to come,it's a fair point

So many generalisations in one post it's unreal.

Anyway, I disagree with all of it because I don't see homeless people as one generic person.

The people with all this resentment built up are working their way up to a heart attack by picturing this one boogey man who's causing all their troubles.

sexmag

BBFAN wrote: »

So many generalisations in one post it's unreal.

Anyway, I disagree with all of it because I don't see homeless people as one generic person.

The people with all this resentment built up are working their way up to a heart attack by picturing this one boogey man who's causing all their troubles.

That's fine just disagree with my comment and chalk it all up to paranoia when a lot of people in this thread have confirmed that do a daily commute to Dublin and have done for years as they had too if they wanted a house and a job.

The homeless people and families shouldn't be given special treatment to decide where they go if they are homeless.

Crisis vs Preference shouldn't be a matter that has an option to say yes or no.

If your family need a home and one is provided you take it

Graces7

sexmag wrote: »

That's fine just disagree with my comment and chalk it all up to paranoia when a lot of people in this thread have confirmed that do a daily commute to Dublin and have done for years as they had too if they wanted a house and a job.

The homeless people and families shouldn't be given special treatment to decide where they go if they are homeless.

Crisis vs Preference shouldn't be a matter that has an option to say yes or no.

If your family need a home and one is provided you take it

[/B

When I was in that potential almost certain situation last year, there were areas and places I would have refused to live and that IS allowed twice.

We are not automatons. We are just ordinary folk in a hard enough situation without having caveats thrust on us

sexmag

Graces7 wrote: »

[/B

When I was in that potential almost certain situation last year, there were areas and places I would have refused to live and that IS allowed twice.

We are not automatons. We are just ordinary folk in a hard enough situation without having caveats thrust on us

Yes but as is repeated time and time again in this thread we are in a crisis and if people expect the government to use legal powers to take land and property off people who just worked hard to pay for it then they should be expected to make their own sacrifices. Being given the choice to refuse twice is only making the crisis worse. Imagine if everyone took the first choice offered to them, that would be 60% of people who are classes homeless being housed

The term beggars can't be choosers isn't exactly apt here but it's not far off.

Graces7

Graces7 wrote: »

[/B

When I was in that potential almost certain situation last year, there were areas and places I would have refused to live and that IS allowed twice.

We are not automatons. We are just ordinary folk in a hard enough situation without having caveats thrust on us

There are always exceptions to the rules. An unemployed person turning down a property because it’s not near family, school or any other such reason don’t deserve the property.

hmmm

Thatnastyboy wrote: »

We do have a major issue with the cost of rents though, and this needs to be sorted - whether its a supply issue or a rent-capping issue, I dont know, but hopefully someone does have a logical solution to this...

The "free houses" brigade have unfortunately hijacked the discussion, and this is getting lost.

There are lots of people who can afford to pay rents, but they are spending way too much of their income on them while they continue to rise. These are people who are contributing to society and mostly would be happy to buy houses, if only they could get the money together.

Short term solutions like rent caps and stopping evictions are not the answer, but they are being forced on the government by the free houses crowd. They benefit the people currently renting, but damage the market as a whole. I've no problem with REITs and so on, if someone wants to rent off of them they are not forced to, and the more supply the better.

We could probably be looking at some of the ways renting works abroad. Instead of the Irish notion that this is a short term thing with badly furnished flats, maybe instead we could down the German route of long term leases and unfurnished places, but with strong security of tenure. It seems to suit both renters and landlords.

padd b1975

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

No offence, John, but you don’t exactly strike me as the type to let things go either. Bit obsessive yourself about all things FG and government. Suggest you take a ‘chill pill’. Maybe go for a nice walk or sommit.

Just be thankful he's stopped whinging about the bloody van.

PlaneSpeeking

BBFAN wrote: »

So many generalisations in one post it's unreal.

Anyway, I disagree with all of it because I don't see homeless people as one generic person.

The people with all this resentment built up are working their way up to a heart attack by picturing this one boogey man who's causing all their troubles.

So many generalisations in one post it's unreal.

blanch152

blanch152 wrote: »

There isn't enough room in Dublin City Council area for all of the people who want to live in the area - especially when it seems that a house with a back garden and a trampoline is the minimum demand.

Those who work have to live well outside Dublin, why shouldn't those who don't work also live well outside Dublin?

High-rise in Dublin is one solution, but you can't put a trampoline on a balcony, though I am sure someone will try.

Whatever about the back garden, adding a trampoline to the minimum demand suggests a sense of entitlement that shouldn't be entertained, and I'd be thinking equally of both working and non-working people here. The semi-d with the back garden is finished as a concept inside the M50 and is appallingly wasteful of precious space. Terraced housing and high rise is the way to go IMO.