Irexit Freedom Party

the_syco

stefanovich wrote: »

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/oj/direct-access.html?locale=en

Give us three examples. You were asked for proof, but only came back with a vague search engine...

Hurrache

ArchXStanton wrote: »

It has a piss poor history of respecting national referendums, there either rerun or completely ignored and brought in through the backdoor

People outside of English tabloids still trot this rubbish out?

ArchXStanton

Quote: Hurrache
People outside of English tabloids still trot this rubbish out?


What's rubbish about it?

https://m.imgur.com/gallery/bZnoegk

I've a feeling we'll be adding another Brexit referendum to that list..

amcalester

Brexit?

The UK can leave whenever they want, they just have to decide how they want to leave. So far the government, never mind parliament, have not been able to agree on that

That has absolutely nothing to do with the EU.

Showing your ignorance there.

Hammer Archer

ArchXStanton wrote: »

Quote: Hurrache
People outside of English tabloids still trot this rubbish out?


What's rubbish about it?

https://m.imgur.com/gallery/bZnoegk

I've a feeling we'll be adding another Brexit referendum to that list..

The Nice and Lisbon treaties were rerun after Ireland gained concessions based on the initial rejections.
The Greek bailout referendum wasn't ignored. They rejected the terms of the bailout and that was accepted. The Greek government proposed other terms and these were accepted.
There is no such thing as an EU constitution anymore so I don't know how you've come to the conclusion that the Dutch and French referendums were ignored.
The Danes were granted a number of opt outs from the Maastricht treaty leading to the second vote passing.
And the UK are free to leave the EU tomorrow if they wish.

Happy to help.

Seth Brundle

ArchXStanton wrote: »

I've a feeling we'll be adding another Brexit referendum to that list..

...because the original Brexit has gone so well?
There is not one positive to Brexit that stands up to any kind of scrutiny!

Hurrache

ArchXStanton wrote: »

Quote: Hurrache
People outside of English tabloids still trot this rubbish out?


What's rubbish about it?

https://m.imgur.com/gallery/bZnoegk

I've a feeling we'll be adding another Brexit referendum to that list..

Brexit, the referendum that's a referendum that the EU had absolutely no input into from the outset, nor will they in any potential second one? That referendum?

ancapailldorcha

ArchXStanton wrote: »

Quote: Hurrache
People outside of English tabloids still trot this rubbish out?


What's rubbish about it?

https://m.imgur.com/gallery/bZnoegk

I've a feeling we'll be adding another Brexit referendum to that list..

The Made to vote again stuff is nonsense. Patently so I might add.

ArchXStanton

Hammer Archer wrote: »

The Nice and Lisbon treaties were rerun after Ireland gained concessions based on the initial rejections.
The Greek bailout referendum wasn't ignored. They rejected the terms of the bailout and that was accepted. The Greek government proposed other terms and these were accepted.
There is no such thing as an EU constitution anymore so I don't know how you've come to the conclusion that the Dutch and French referendums were ignored.
The Danes were granted a number of opt outs from the Maastricht treaty leading to the second vote passing.
And the UK are free to leave the EU tomorrow if they wish.

Happy to help.

The EU constitution was repackaged in the Lisbon treaty and subsequent referendums in other countries were cancelled when they seen the French and Dutch votes

The concessions were just an excuse for a revote here, i can remember quite clearly Cowan on TV here saying our vote would be respected only for him to be summoned to the EU Parliament were he looked like a slapped school boy... Oh yeah and "vote yes for jobs" (scumbags)

Amazing these revotes only happen when it doesn't go the EUs way then it's done and dusted never to be revisited, fairly dubious democracy...

"there can be no democratic choices against the EU treaties" - Juncker.... Indeed JC... Indeed

ArchXStanton

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

The Made to vote again stuff is nonsense. Patently so I might add.

If it was a tin pot dictator in Africa (i can remember the EU frothing at the mouth over Mugabe and his one man candidate election whilst we had to revote on Lisbon, the irony) or a regime in South America pulling these stunts they'd be up in arms over it..

ancapailldorcha

ArchXStanton wrote: »

If it was a tin pot dictator in Africa (i can remember the EU frothing at the mouth over Mugabe and his one man candidate election whilst we had to revote on Lisbon, the irony) or a regime in South America pulling these stunts they'd be up in arms over it..

There is no irony. The EU did not make us vote on Lisbon.

Do you actually care about this at all or do you just want to spout the same tropes over and over again?

ArchXStanton

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

There is no irony. The EU did not make us vote on Lisbon.

Do you actually care about this at all or do you just want to spout the same tropes over and over again?

Ireland came under pressure from the EU, do you remember Sarkozy - "the Irish must vote again!" the day the No vote was returned, what business does a French politician have telling the Irish people that, that's some neck in fairness..

I was a No campaigner during both Lisbon referendums,it was around this time I really started to look into the EU and I don't like what I see, I don't think you'll find a more anti EU poster on this site..

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2008/jun/19/lisbon.ireland

ancapailldorcha

ArchXStanton wrote: »

Ireland came under pressure from the EU, do you remember Sarkozy - "the Irish must vote again!" the day the No vote was returned, what business does a French politician have telling the Irish people that, that's some neck in fairness..

I was a No campaigner during both Lisbon referendums,it was around this time I really started to look into the EU and I don't like what I see, I don't think you'll find a more anti EU poster on this site..

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2008/jun/19/lisbon.ireland

I don't remember as it happens.

Sarkozy saying something does not constitute coercion. Why would you think that it does?

Even if I accept the obviously false premise that the Irish were forced by their European masters to vote again, then the direct conclusion that can be drawn from the yes vote in the second instance is that we are incredibly stupid and weak minded unless of course something was changed which it was.

stefanovich

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I don't remember as it happens.

Sarkozy saying something does not constitute coercion. Why would you think that it does?

Even if I accept the obviously false premise that the Irish were forced by their European masters to vote again, then the direct conclusion that can be drawn from the yes vote in the second instance is that we are incredibly stupid and weak minded unless of course something was changed which it was.

When veto is removed in 2020, because of the Lisbon treaty, increased corporation tax will be pushed on us against our will.

ancapailldorcha

stefanovich wrote: »

When veto is removed in 2020, because of the Lisbon treaty, increased corporation tax will be pushed on us against our will.

More unsubstantiated soundbytes.

ArchXStanton

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I don't remember as it happens.

Sarkozy saying something does not constitute coercion. Why would you think that it does?

Well there you have it, obviously you had no interest in events at the time....

Sarkozy was on a plane to Dublin within weeks after this statement

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ireland/2437817/Nicolas-Sarkozy-Ireland-must-vote-again-on-EU-Lisbon-treaty.html

If other countries had gotten to hold a referendum on Lisbon instead of it being ratified it would have been shot down aswell, especially in the UK

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/telegraph-view/3559425/Ireland-says-No-to-Treaty-of-Lisbon-and-No-say-all-of-us.html

ArchXStanton

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

More unsubstantiated soundbytes.

They're already working on our tax rate... One of the "assurances" for the Lisbon revote

ancapailldorcha

ArchXStanton wrote: »

They're already working on our tax rate... One of the "assurances" for the Lisbon revote

Proof?

ArchXStanton

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I don't remember as it happens.

Sarkozy saying something does not constitute coercion. Why would you think that it does?

Even if I accept the obviously false premise that the Irish were forced by their European masters to vote again, then the direct conclusion that can be drawn from the yes vote in the second instance is that we are incredibly stupid and weak minded unless of course something was changed which it was.

"vote yes for jobs!"


Right around the time of massive unemployment was the carrot on the stick....

ArchXStanton

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Proof?

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/business/ireland-under-fresh-attack-from-eu-on-corporation-tax-897813.html

Seriously lads do yas pay no attention to the rumblings from Brussels...

ancapailldorcha

ArchXStanton wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/business/ireland-under-fresh-attack-from-eu-on-corporation-tax-897813.html

Seriously lads do yas pay no attention to the rumblings from Brussels...

Calling a proposal an attack sets a poor tone.

The Irish vetoed it. Problem solved.

Fullfact has the following to say about the purported veto removal in 2020:

KNOWN OUTCOMES THAT HAVE ALREADY BEEN AGREED AS TRUE BY ALL SIDES:

1: The UK along with all existing members of the EU lose their abstention veto in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon Treaty when the system changes to that of majority acceptance with no abstentions or veto’s being allowed.

This is wrong. The Lisbon Treaty did make changes to how EU law gets passed which reduced the scope of states’ veto ability, but it did not abolish veto powers; and these changes are already in effect, rather than coming into force in 2020. The term “abstention veto” is not a part of European Union law (as you can see by the fact that most Google results for the term are references to this list.)

EU legislation has to be approved by the Council of the European Union, which is made up of ministerial representatives of the governments of all EU member states.

Depending on the type of issue it is voting on, it has three different standards for passing laws—a simple majority (where 15 out of the 28 states must agree); “qualified majority” (where laws must be approved by at least 55% of states, that have to represent at least 65% of the EU’s population); and a unanimous vote (where all voting states must agree, which therefore gives any single government a veto over the law.)

The Lisbon Treaty changed a large number of policy areas from being ones that needed unanimity (thus giving states a veto) to ones that were decided by qualified majority. At the same time, the Lisbon Treaty changed how qualified majority voting worked—this actually gave the UK slightly more voting power than it had before through the link with a country’s population, which is widely seen as having benefited large countries such as the UK, France and Germany.

The UK also doesn’t have to participate in EU legislation relating to justice and home affairs, but can choose to opt-in if it wants to.

It’s not clear what is meant by the claim that the Lisbon Treaty would see states losing their “abstention veto”. On issues that require unanimity, it’s the case that simply abstaining from a vote does not stop it passing (the Lisbon Treaty did not change this), but states can still veto by voting against.

From the Examiner:

“Taxation is a sovereign member state competence and decisions at [European] Council on tax matters require unanimity,” a spokeswoman for Mr Donohoe said on Tuesday.

stefanovich

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Calling a proposal an attack sets a poor tone.

The Irish vetoed it. Problem solved.

Fullfact has the following to say about the purported veto removal in 2020:

Removing unanimity is the same as removing veto.

ancapailldorcha

stefanovich wrote: »

Removing unanimity is the same as removing veto.

The requirement for unanimity has not nor will not be removed unless there is another treaty. Corporation tax is a member state competence.

micosoft

ArchXStanton wrote: »

Ireland came under pressure from the EU, do you remember Sarkozy - "the Irish must vote again!" the day the No vote was returned, what business does a French politician have telling the Irish people that, that's some neck in fairness..

I was a No campaigner during both Lisbon referendums,it was around this time I really started to look into the EU and I don't like what I see, I don't think you'll find a more anti EU poster on this site..

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2008/jun/19/lisbon.ireland

Actually Sarkozy asked what exactly could Europe do to satisfy made up lies by No campaigners during the Lisbon referendum like conscription into a made-up EU army. As I recall it the rest of the EU agreed to a series of binding protocols to address these lies which I must admit felt deeply embarrassing.

ArchXStanton

micosoft wrote: »

Actually Sarkozy asked what exactly could Europe do to satisfy made up lies by No campaigners during the Lisbon referendum like conscription into a made-up EU army. As I recall it the rest of the EU agreed to a series of binding protocols to address these lies which I must admit felt deeply embarrassing.

We have Pesco as Juncker described as "She is awake, the sleeping beauty of the Lisbon treaty" (laughs in Frankenstein) which Leo has readily signed us up for, Macron and Merkel have been repeatedly calling for an EU army, Merkel only a few weeks ago called for an EU aircraft carrier.... Must be to deliver peace on "the peace projects" part around the world...US style

Hurrache

Herman gets 2,441 votes on first count. Gemma O'Doherty almost 3 times more than him. Hopefully we'll see and hear less and less of him and his ravings.

For Forks Sake

Hurrache wrote: »

Herman gets 2,441 votes on first count. Gemma O'Doherty almost 3 times more than him. Hopefully we'll see and hear less and less of him and his ravings.

Put in context, Gary Gannon first time candidate for a minor party (Soc Dems) got over 20k.

batgoat

ArchXStanton wrote: »

We have Pesco as Juncker described as "She is awake, the sleeping beauty of the Lisbon treaty" (laughs in Frankenstein) which Leo has readily signed us up for, Macron and Merkel have been repeatedly calling for an EU army, Merkel only a few weeks ago called for an EU aircraft carrier.... Must be to deliver peace on "the peace projects" part around the world...US style

So you're dodging how your Sarkozy claim was entirely false and moving to further propaganda?

Hurrache

Hurrache wrote: »

Herman gets 2,441 votes on first count. Gemma O'Doherty almost 3 times more than him. Hopefully we'll see and hear less and less of him and his ravings.

TV3 will likely still keep him up late for the tonight show. Easy lulz before bed

Hurrache

Deleted User wrote: »

TV3 will likely still keep him up late for the tonight show. Easy lulz before bed

Christ, you're probably right. Despite the 2 regular hosts it really is an awful show.