Customer toilets

Andy From Sligo

time long overdue to look at supplying decent customer toilets in shops/cafe's and everything throughout Ireland and its got to be done at a government official level. I want to see decent toilets at every place that relies on customers shopping of visiting that establishments. - I want it so that anywhere that has general public on the premises, by law have to have adequate washroom facilities or at a minimum 2 or 3 toilets by law . 1 Disabled and then one mixed men/women or separate men and ladies washroom. Clean, properly maintained, stocked with soap and working dryer and flushing toilets and proper ventilation - and that these places where public shop or eat in if they have not got sufficient amenities that they can face close down of the premises! (yes may be OTT but its time to get tough)

What prompted me to write this today particularly , well my experience today of shopping in carrick on shannon - first of all shopping in woodies DIY - well couldnt see customer toilets there at all busting for a pee , so I didnt stay as long as I would looking around there and thought well I have to get some bits in Tesco so I will use their toilet(s) - big sign in Tesco's "Customer Toilets" - ah good 1 toilet ... 1 bloody customer toilet for the whole store! so that one toilet sufficed Disabled/Men & Women in that one toilet. Needless to say there was a queue outside of men woman and children waiting to use that 1 toilet! (good job there wasnt a disabled person in a wheelchair wanting to use it) so i waited and unfortunately the person before me had a massive Shíte and it really stunk the fecking toilet out - no windows in the toilet , no natural ventilation and I am pretty sure the ceiling fan wast working either so trying not to gag with the smell I done my deed and walked out (wondering if the next person to go in most probably thought I left that smell behind)

But they are not the only offenders. There are loads of places I have been in Ireland that have not had sufficient customer toilets ranging from petrol stations to cafes, to other big stores - either not enough facilities (or none at all for the customers) or filthy or unworking equipment (urinalss or flushing toilets and non working taps) or no soap etc.

i wonder if there is any requirements at all in place (if any) requiring premises that have public on the premises must provide clean working sufficient toilets for their customers by law over here in Ireland - or whether its left up to the companies themselves if they wish to supply toilets for their customers?

What do others think?

KevRossi

There's a customers toilet in the Woodies. Just inside the door. If you had spent time asking staff instead of writing that OP you would have had no bother.

The Shannon flows right behind the shopping centre so you could have had a plss in that too.

I had this very thought during the week when I visited a local tourist spot (a castle). There is hourly tours of the place and they were quite busy, but there is only 1 port-a-loo on the whole site, and this is situated right beside where you have to pay to enter.

The staff also use it, because while I was waiting in the car, a lady in medi-evil period dress appeared from the port-a-loo. No privacy, totally inadequate toilet facilities for such a busy place. There were over 200 visitors the day before according to one of the staff.

Also, there is no light in the thing, so when you close the door you are in total darkness. When a child has to use it you would have to stand there waiting with the door half ajar.

Maybe the idea is that the toilets are in keeping with the medi evil theme of the castle, and it is part of the whole experience.

cython

Can't say I agree with the requirements as you have laid out for every retailer. I can think of plenty of shop premises where if they were to provide what you are asking for, they would lose say 30% of their retail space, which is just not practical.

As far as I'm aware, anywhere with seating for on-premise consumption of food or drink is required to provide toilet facilities already (and I agree with this), but why should random newsagents be expected to operate a public toilet, which is what your blanket suggestion proposes??

Andy From Sligo

KevRossi wrote: »

There's a customers toilet in the Woodies. Just inside the door. If you had spent time asking staff instead of writing that OP you would have had no bother.

The Shannon flows right behind the shopping centre so you could have had a plss in that too.

well thank you - i will know for next time then at least. i must be a blind as a bat i didnt see it

Andy From Sligo

cython wrote: »

Can't say I agree with the requirements as you have laid out for every retailer. I can think of plenty of shop premises where if they were to provide what you are asking for, they would lose say 30% of their retail space, which is just not practical.

true - didnt really think of that ... yes supplying toilets would take up a certain amount of retail space. very good for thinking that

cython wrote: »

As far as I'm aware, anywhere with seating for on-premise consumption of food or drink is required to provide toilet facilities already (and I agree with this), but why should random newsagents be expected to operate a public toilet, which is what your blanket suggestion proposes??

well - blanket suggestion it may be but you know within reason. Im not as silly to think that every establishment that has customers passing through its doors should have full blown customer toilets. But i think most will realise what places I am talking about that should have facilities by law ... and even ones that should supply them even though they are not required by law to supply them

KERSPLAT!

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

true - didnt really think of that ... yes supplying toilets would take up a certain amount of retail space. very good for thinking that



well - blanket suggestion it may be but you know within reason. Im not as silly to think that every establishment that has customers passing through its doors should have full blown customer toilets. But i think most will realise what places I am talking about that should have facilities by law ... and even ones that should supply them even though they are not required by law to supply them

... That's exactly what you suggested in your opening post.

Stephen15

I wouldn't agree with this not every shop needs toilets. I agree there needs to be more public toilets but having toilets in every shop is unesscary and ott especially in smaller shops. It's completely unesscary in shopping centres also which already have public toilets. Perhaps you could make it law that any shop above xxxxx sq metres must have them.

beauf

They removed most of the public toilets around the place sometime probably the 90s.

Since then people have to use commercial premises which don't have the resources to provide toilets for non customers.

Is it any better anywhere else.

Capt'n Midnight

Deleted User wrote: »

there is only 1 port-a-loo on the whole site, and this is situated right beside where you have to pay to enter.
....

Also, there is no light in the thing, so when you close the door you are in total darkness. When a child has to use it you would have to stand there waiting with the door half ajar.

IIRC porta loos have a translucent roof to let light in and most people today have lights on their phones.

Or carry a few imodium with you in case you get caught short.



Or bring back public toilets with attendants who have the powers and means to keep out the scumbags who aren't toilet trained.

Andy From Sligo

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

... That's exactly what you suggested in your opening post.

with my posts they are so over the place and whacky you got to not pick them to pieces and anylize them so much but just get the jist of what I am saying

jaxxx

Speaking of customer/public toilets... TOILET PAPER THAT DOESN'T FEEL AS COURSE AS SAND PAPER PLEASE!!!

I have a sensitive bum

KERSPLAT!

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

with my posts they are so over the place and whacky you got to not pick them to pieces and anylize them so much but just get the jist of what I am saying

But that was the jist of it

Andy From Sligo

jaxxx wrote: »

Speaking of customer/public toilets... TOILET PAPER THAT DOESN'T FEEL AS COURSE AS SAND PAPER PLEASE!!!

I have a sensitive bum

when i were growing up in the UK the council public toilets in the towns and cities had that Izal square sheet toilet paper - it was like tracing paper ... with the texture of wiping your ass with paper as well.

Andy From Sligo

Stephen15 wrote: »

I wouldn't agree with this not every shop needs toilets. I agree there needs to be more public toilets but having toilets in every shop is unesscary and ott especially in smaller shops. It's completely unesscary in shopping centres also which already have public toilets. Perhaps you could make it law that any shop above xxxxx sq metres must have them.

thats a good idea - that along with large supermarkets, petrol stations, cafes and the like

freshpopcorn

In my local Tesco we've one toilet and I don't think I've ever had to queue.
Apart from retail space being valuable I think it's
a big reason why shops dont put in lots of toilets is because people don't look after/respect them.
I think a law stating that a shop would need a certain amount of toilets wouldn't be great in some ways.
Take for instance small cafe/shops needing three toilets.
Another would be a Tesco in a large town would require the same amount of toilets as a small place.

Andy From Sligo

freshpopcorn wrote: »

In my local Tesco we've one toilet and I don't think I've ever had to queue.
Apart from retail space being valuable I think it's
a big reason why shops dont put in lots of toilets is because people don't look after/respect them.
I think a law stating that a shop would need a certain amount of toilets wouldn't be great in some ways.
Take for instance small cafe/shops needing three toilets.
Another would be a Tesco in a large town would require the same amount of toilets as a small place.

see I think that is a good idea - and at least anyone thinking of starting up an eating establishment where people eat in can factor in that the least amount of toilets they will require by law is 3 (1 Disabled/1man/ 1ladies toilet) and then it will be beneficial to the customers .

even if they kept them locked and just give key to customers (or a code) to unlock it, it would stop all and sundry going in and wrecking them - at least the facilities would be there.

I sometimes think some establishments dont put them in also because of apathy (and cannot be bothered keeping them clean) ... I dunno maybe they dont want to get sued by people slipping up on wet floors too or burning themselves with scalding water from the hot tap .. or squirting soap into their eyes. - Remember reading years ago about a 15 year old boy being awarded 15,000 euro because he squirted soap in his eyes whilst in a cafe's toilet.

freshpopcorn

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

see I think that is a good idea - and at least anyone thinking of starting up an eating establishment where people eat in can factor in that the least amount of toilets they will require by law is 3 (1 Disabled/1man/ 1ladies toilet) and then it will be beneficial to the customers .

even if they kept them locked and just give key to customers (or a code) to unlock it, it would stop all and sundry going in and wrecking them - at least the facilities would be there.

I sometimes think some establishments dont put them in also because of apathy (and cannot be bothered keeping them clean) ... I dunno maybe they dont want to get sued by people slipping up on wet floors too or burning themselves with scalding water from the hot tap .. or squirting soap into their eyes. - Remember reading years ago about a 15 year old boy being awarded 15,000 euro because he squirted soap in his eyes whilst in a cafe's toilet.

I could see your three toilet rule causing hassle in the future to be honest.
Regarding people changing gender/etc. If everybody was required a toilet.
I am just think of of a lot of little cafes and they simply wouldn't have the room for all the toilets and they'd have to sacrifice tables/seats for them. I known in my town you'd have trouble getting a seat in a cafe but never have trouble waiting for the toilet.
The key/code rule isn't always effective in my experience.

the_pen_turner

i think andy is right.
there is a huge shortage of toilets around shops.
areas like childers road in limerick where maplin used to be has no public toilets. there are toilets in dunnes and the range but none for the complex.
same goes for where tk max is. 6-10 shops and no toilets. toilets in homebase

loads of hardware and bulders merchents dont have toilets .




not every shop needs a customer toilet but there should be one by law in every area.

riclad

Theres no need for every shop to have toilets,
there could be a rule shops over x size must have a toilet.
Large stores like pennys ec have toilets.
Look at mary street ,
theres hardware shops, cafes , clothes shops.
Say theres 20 Shops there ,theres no need for 20 toilets.
All shopping centres ,fast food outlets like mcdonalds have toilets.
Theres small cafes, where theres not space for 3 toilets.
Small shops ,cafes have to pay rent,insurance ,wages ,
they have to make a profit too.
3 toilets seems excessive for a small cafe.
Tesco .aldi,etc most supermarkets dont have toilets.
I see no great shortage of toilets .
I presume they removed public toilets because junkies were using them,
or they were expensive to maintain.

Guy:Incognito

You forgot that you wouldn't want the prices to rise to pay for these new facilities.


It's not shops jobs to provide toilets for the public. If they want to, that's fine. Restaurants, that's grand.

Stephen15

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

thats a good idea - that along with large supermarkets, petrol stations, cafes and the like

Not all petrol stations need toilets. Smaller petrol station with small shops or sometimes no shop at all don't need them. Petrol stations on main roads should have them and most do to be fair. Eg. My local garage is only small and has two pump bays and a small shop which sells basic items like milk, bread, car items, small selection of sweets, cigarettes, coffee and newspapers. It doesn't have a deli or seating so there's no real need for it.

Del2005

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

I sometimes think some establishments dont put them in also because of apathy (and cannot be bothered keeping them clean) ... I dunno maybe they dont want to get sued by people slipping up on wet floors too or burning themselves with scalding water from the hot tap .. or squirting soap into their eyes. - Remember reading years ago about a 15 year old boy being awarded 15,000 euro because he squirted soap in his eyes whilst in a cafe's toilet.

Not apathy but health and safety. Human waste is a bio hazard and do you think that the staff in a cafe or hardware store should have to clean the public toilets? People don't respect stuff in this country so they will be a bio hazard for the staff to clean.


Public toilets are a public issue not a private one. So much like the government stopped building housing and we have the rental crisis they stopped providing public toilets and we now have a shortage of public toilets. The companies pay enough in rates, taxes, water etc so the council should provide public toilets.

BuboBubo

Shopping centres all have toilets, Mc Donalds have them, big hardware shops like Woodies, Aldi and Lidl - ( you only have to ask for access - no problem), TK Maxx has toilets, motorway service stations, all libraries, Supervalu, I make a point of knowing where the loos are, for my own embarrassing health reasons, I can't afford not to know!

If you're at an outdoors event - expect portaloos, carry a little bottle of hand sanitizer in your pocket (aldi or lidl have them, about 80 cents - usually near the till) along with a small pack of tissues.

Out and about if you can't find them, ask the staff in a big store, a simple "Excuse me, where is the nearest toilet?" Works wonders.

Andy From Sligo

im not sure we should be viewing places having toilets as Public toilets for the area. I think the shops that have their own toilets should be for the own customers use and not viewed as a public convenience for the area ... and that public convieniences in towns should be supplied by the councils and maintained by council workers or sub contracted to 3rd party cleaning firms.

but reading some of the comments it does indeed seem some people use the establishments toilets as public toilets .. which in an ideal world as I say the council should be supplying toilets in every town and city across Ireland .

And shoppers to that town should vote with their feet and only shop in towns that have a public (clean and fully maintained) toilet block and make their voices and opinions heard "if you (the council) dont supply a public toilet we are going to shop in towns that do have a public toilet" - this might make them change their minds. If the council want to recuperate the money for the building and maintenance of the toilet block they place in a town/ city (could be situated in a car park for example) then maybe they could charge the public a nominal fee to enter. if its manned by a council worker/toilet attendant keeping it clean and taking the money the toilets I think would be less likely to be vandalised

freshpopcorn

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

im not sure we should be viewing places having toilets as Public toilets for the area. I think the shops that have their own toilets should be for the own customers use and not viewed as a public convenience for the area ... and that public convieniences in towns should be supplied by the councils and maintained by council workers or sub contracted to 3rd party cleaning firms.

but reading some of the comments it does indeed seem some people use the establishments toilets as public toilets .. which in an ideal world as I say the council should be supplying toilets in every town and city across Ireland .

And shoppers to that town should vote with their feet and only shop in towns that have a public (clean and fully maintained) toilet block and make their voices and opinions heard "if you (the council) dont supply a public toilet we are going to shop in towns that do have a public toilet" - this might make them change their minds. If the council want to recuperate the money for the building and maintenance of the toilet block they place in a town/ city (could be situated in a car park for example) then maybe they could charge the public a nominal fee to enter. if its manned by a council worker/toilet attendant keeping it clean and taking the money the toilets I think would be less likely to be vandalised

Doesn't most town already have one of those super loo's that cleans it's after ever use or something.
What hours would you like this toilet block to opened?

BuboBubo

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Doesn't most town already have one of those super loo's that cleans it's after ever use or something.
What hours would you like this toilet block to opened?

Those superloos were a terrible idea. They were installed to replace the old council toilet blocks in the 90's and are heammoraging the council's finances ever since. The old toilet blocks weren't fit for purpose - but most municipal councils regret getting these.

poisonated

In Amsterdam, as far as I know, restaurants rent out their toilets and charge 50 cent a go. Perhaps they could do that here.

Andy From Sligo

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Doesn't most town already have one of those super loo's that cleans it's after ever use or something.
What hours would you like this toilet block to opened?

normal shop opening hours?

Andy From Sligo

BuboBubo wrote: »

Those superloos were a terrible idea. They were installed to replace the old council toilet blocks in the 90's and are heammoraging the council's finances ever since. The old toilet blocks weren't fit for purpose - but most municipal councils regret getting these.

yeah terrible idea those so called superloos.

I have been in quite a good few public run council loos (not here in ireland, cant even think where I have seen any for quite a while now.. oh tell a lie - I think i see a block today down at the river in Carrick on shannon .. I think that was a council run toilet block if I am not mistaken)

Andy From Sligo

poisonated wrote: »

In Amsterdam, as far as I know, restaurants rent out their toilets and charge 50 cent a go. Perhaps they could do that here.

rent out the toilets to whom? - the council?

poisonated

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

rent out the toilets to whom? - the council?

Anyone who rants to rent them. Capitalism at its finest.

jaxxx

jaxxx wrote: »

Speaking of customer/public toilets... TOILET PAPER THAT DOESN'T FEEL AS COURSE AS SAND PAPER PLEASE!!!

I have a sensitive bum

Apt user name

Andy From Sligo

I dont travel much but notable toilets in Sligo town - Insomnia cafe's (both places) have impeccable toilets , always clean and fresh smelling and well equipped puts all the other to shame - oh but Glasshouse hotel toilets are good too. Apparently (because there are no official public toilets anywhere in Sligo town centre) unnofically the Glasshouse hotel toilets are the 'unnoficial public' toilets so someone informed me'

fatknacker

Yes to more public toilets, everywhere. Sick of having to ask can I use a toilet, like a ****ing child. And I'm sure owners of private establishments are sick of having to provide them because there's no alternatives.

It's about time we had some decent toilet facilities like any other grown up country. We're still stuck in the Middle Ages being told to piss in a river.

Fk the junkies. Hire people to check them and clean them regularly. More jobs. Charge 20c or whatever a go.
It works in kilkenny.

fatknacker

poisonated wrote: »

In Amsterdam, as far as I know, restaurants rent out their toilets and charge 50 cent a go. Perhaps they could do that here.

Actually that's not a bad idea. I'd happily donate if it means I can walk in off the street and not have to ask and risk being told "for customers only"

freshpopcorn

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

normal shop opening hours?

I get where your coming from but I don't know how foncoally viable it would be in smaller towns.

Andy From Sligo

fatknacker wrote: »

Yes to more public toilets, everywhere. Sick of having to ask can I use a toilet, like a ****ing child. And I'm sure owners of private establishments are sick of having to provide them because there's no alternatives.

It's about time we had some decent toilet facilities like any other grown up country. We're still stuck in the Middle Ages being told to piss in a river.

Fk the junkies. Hire people to check them and clean them regularly. More jobs. Charge 20c or whatever a go.
It works in kilkenny.

thou talketh sense

sligojoek

poisonated wrote: »

In Amsterdam, as far as I know, restaurants rent out their toilets and charge 50 cent a go. Perhaps they could do that here.

Do you get a free cuppa coffee on the way out?

Andy, I'm sure you're familiar with Connolly's pub in Sligo. They've cut down big time on people getting off buses from the bay across the road. They were coming in in droves and leaving a mess behind them. Not to mention flushing gallons of metered water down the drain. The staff had to go in after and tidy up while customers waited for drink at the counter on busy sunday evenings as the students were arriving back in town.

Andy From Sligo

fatknacker wrote: »

Actually that's not a bad idea. I'd happily donate if it means I can walk in off the street and not have to ask and risk being told "for customers only"

God thats happened to me at a few places. You feel like a criminal for asking! - and no-one likes refusal. Its like I was in a place once and i said "can I use your toilet please" and was told "sorry we only have staff toilets" and I said its only a pee I want" - and they are like "Im sorry the customers cannot use the staff toilets .... its to do with company policy and insurance"

Andy From Sligo

Never forget I went into a well known eating establishment once (arches) and i had just gone in and headed for toilets to really just wash my hands before I started eating in there .. well and have a pee too - but anyway this snotty member of staff nearly blocked my path "these toilets are for customers only!" .. "i know I said I am going to eat in here after I have washed my hands" .. came out of toilets and his eyes followed me all the way to the till to make sure I ordered something" - jeez!

Mrs OBumble

People who work in shops didn't sign up to be toilet cleaners.

Fair enough in really big shops that have specialist cleaners, who have the training and PPE to deal with the type of mess that Jo and Josie Soap leave.

And fair enough in pubs/restaurants, 'cos they're selling stuff that makes you go, for on-premise use.

But anywhere else ... nah, not fair on the shop-workers. It should be the council's job to provide 'em, it's what businesses pay rates for.


But while we're having a bog-rant: forget with the three different sorts and three different queues. Just have one block with two wheelchair-accessible (*) cubicles and free to be used by anyone. One queue.



(*)"disabled toilet" is a contradiction in terms - the loo needs to be fully functional!

freshpopcorn

I've actually cleaned toilet before in hotels/lobbies/etc.
The training consists of this is a brush and toilet cleaner and a cloth for cleaning and some kind of polish/cleaner.
The most annoying thing you'd encounter was make up on surfaces!

Del2005

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I've actually cleaned toilet before in hotels/lobbies/etc.
The training consists of this is a brush and toilet cleaner and a cloth for cleaning and some kind of polish/cleaner.
The most annoying thing you'd encounter was make up on surfaces!

That's not training that's dangerous. In my company the cleaners won't touch anything outside of the bowl that's solid, they call in reinforcements in full PPE to clean and sterilise the place.

Berserker

Not sure if it'd make much of a difference for some. Was in Liffey Valley yesterday morning at 11am and Dad had his young fella going to be bathroom at the back of their 181 CE Kia jeep. The centre was no more than 100 metres away and there is a toilet right inside the door.

KERSPLAT!

Berserker wrote: »

Not sure if it'd make much of a difference for some. Was in Liffey Valley yesterday morning at 11am and Dad had his young fella going to be bathroom at the back of their 181 CE Kia jeep. The centre was no more than 100 metres away and there is a toilet right inside the door.

In fairness, a 100m to a toddler/small child can be too far. My toddler had to go behind a bus stop a few weeks ago, it was that or destroy himself

Graces7

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

In fairness, a 100m to a toddler/small child can be too far. My toddler had to go behind a bus stop a few weeks ago, it was that or destroy himself

Trees and bushes are great too..

igCorcaigh

I'd be happy if they started with the intercity buses. I travel 4h20m twice a week, and there is never a toilet.

Berserker

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

In fairness, a 100m to a toddler/small child can be too far. My toddler had to go behind a bus stop a few weeks ago, it was that or destroy himself

I can understand for a small child but this young fella was of a school going age.

freshpopcorn

Berserker wrote: »

I can understand for a small child but this young fella was of a school going age.

Was there any other kids in the car?

Andy From Sligo

igCorcaigh wrote: »

I'd be happy if they started with the intercity buses. I travel 4h20m twice a week, and there is never a toilet.

thats always been a bugbear of mine. In this day and age as well. - if I knew I had to go on a bus journey without a toilet on it even the thought of it would make me anxious and want to use the toilet - I know they would have breaks and 'toilet stops' but with some people (medical problems/old/whatever) simply cannot be told or have the willpower to wait for ages to go to the toilet. With some , when you need to go you need top go.

Long story but I was sent by my GP once to a CBT specialist because of my waterworks. and she went through the ol' "when your asleep you dont need to use the toilet so why do you need to use it a lot when your awake?" - and "sometimes thought of going to a place or a town with no toilet prompts a lot of people to worry about going to the toilet should they need to and if there is not toilet your brain sends signal to your bladder and makes you want to go more"
well apart from all that , it turned out in the end that it was my Blood Pressure tablets were causing me to go more than I need to -

but yeah going through that I really now sympathise if someone goes out of their home who is on medication like that or water tablets and go to a toilet when out and have to queue for the toilet or there is no toilet at all , or if they ask in a shop and the shop owner wont let them use their staff toilet. - with some I have heard of it making people stay at home and not want to go out (and that causes other problems in itself) rather stay at home because at least they will be near a toilet rather than thinking they could go out somewhere and get caught short!