NEW 2018 Assistant Principal Officer Competition

Addle

It doesn't take everyone 9 or 10 hours.
I spent a 1/3 of that time on it, and I made a genuine effort. Though I'm not expecting anything out it. Just hope to get through the early stages for the experience.

I'd love to read some of the applications.
Some of the people I know who have applied must be seriously delusional about their accomplishments and abilities.

And then I know others who are super smart and hardworking and they haven't applied.

duffman13

Addle wrote: »

It doesn't take everinr 9 or 10 hours.
I spent it 1/3 of that and I made a genuine effort. Thought I'm not expecting anything out it. Just hope to get through the early stages for the experience.

I'd love to read some of the applications.
Some of the people I know who have applied must seriously delusional about their accomplishments and abilities.

And then I know others who are sure smart and hardworking and they haven't applied.

I would say about 2-3 Hours myself, I wish I had more time unbroken to do it in one sitting. I always fear it comes across disjointed when I do it in three or four segments.

djPSB

duffman13 wrote: »

Did you actually put that much time into it? Fair play if you did!

I would say I put approximately 5 hours into it. But it could have done with another couple of hours realistically to review and enhance.

Sir Ophiuchus

About 8-9 hours is probably right for me. The actual writing didn't take too long, but it was pretty spread out in between a lot of obsessing over it, checking competency descriptions, blocking out bullet points to start with, then rewriting. Got a bit stressed over the whole thing.

sillysocks

ParkRunner wrote: »

As an aspiring AP, I wish you could record your educational and work details once with PAS, which would be saved onto your “account” and filled in automatically (editable of course) when you apply for a new position!

The amount of man hours wasted filling in the same info in every application must be huge!

P.s. best of luck to everyone

I was able to copy and paste my education info from a previous application form that thankfully was under ‘my applications’ On the website. Otherwise I might not have applied! I had less than an hour to race through it earlier so couldn’t even say what I wrote. If I get through the tests I doubt I’ve given myself much chance based on the form. Should have done it before today. Great intentions and then forgot.

tigger123

djPSB wrote: »

Disagree with that logic.

The civil service should be trying to be competitive with the private sector employers. Not everyone is willing to put 9/10 hours into an application form for a role regardless of what the role is.

Just because someone is willing is to commit such time to an initial application does not make them a better candidate. Just because someone wants the job more than someone else does not make them a better candidate. It should be based on your experience and what one can bring to a role, which is very evident from a CV.

All that said I did apply myself.

Best of luck with your application

The point I was trying to make is that I feel it's kind of appropriate; if you're not willing to do that specific task (if you don't have the inclination or want), then the job probably isn't for you.

Plus, if you're not motivated enough to want to work in the public sector that you wouldn't fill out the form, I'm not sure if the State would really want you feeding into policy and spending public money.

Ravelleman

djPSB wrote: »

Disagree with that logic.

The civil service should be trying to be competitive with the private sector employers. Not everyone is willing to put 9/10 hours into an application form for a role regardless of what the role is.

Just because someone is willing is to commit such time to an initial application does not make them a better candidate. Just because someone wants the job more than someone else does not make them a better candidate. It should be based on your experience and what one can bring to a role, which is very evident from a CV.

All that said I did apply myself.

This goes against the recruitment mentality in the Civil Service, which, as much as possible, aims for disinterested (if not fully objective) selection of candidates. Assessing suitability on the basis of a CV alone in the first instance would likely lead to accusations of a lack of transparency or accountability. The process was designed long ago to limit preferential treatment. This may be at odds with market-driven approaches to workforce planning but the Civil Service has never been just about the market. The fact that they opened the competitions up is a pretty big step, in my view.

djPSB

tigger123 wrote: »

Best of luck with your application

The point I was trying to make is that I feel it's kind of appropriate; if you're not willing to do that specific task (if you don't have the inclination or want), then the job probably isn't for you.

Plus, if you're not motivated enough to want to work in the public sector that you wouldn't fill out the form, I'm not sure if the State would really want you feeding into policy and spending public money.

You believe they will attract a better standard of candidates with the current process. I don't agree, I feel it does the opposite and dilutes the talent pool.

The application system is archaic, and is not a process you would see in a modern efficient organisation. Civil service recruitment processes should in the main be no different to that of a large private sector employer.

djPSB

Ravelleman wrote: »

This goes against the recruitment mentality in the Civil Service, which, as much as possible, aims for disinterested (if not fully objective) selection of candidates. Assessing suitability on the basis of a CV alone in the first instance would likely lead to accusations of a lack of transparency or accountability. The process was designed long ago to limit preferential treatment. This may be at odds with market-driven approaches to workforce planning but the Civil Service has never been just about the market. The fact that they opened the competitions up is a pretty big step, in my view.

To be fair that explanation is a lot more logical than the 'if you're not willing to complete the form, you don't deserve a job in the civil service' logic.

PhoenixParker

I would argue that the process is not archaic and also tgat it's inline with how mass recruitment is handled in private organisations.

We don't see it because we're beyond the mass recruitment/thousands of candidates/difficulty differentiating between them stage by a decade or more . . .

But see how grad recruitment programs for the big companies work with long forms, aptitude tests, formulaic interviews and this is not out of line with their handling.

Due to the size and nature of the civil service the recruitment challenges they face in terms of volume remain the same right up to senior management and as a result we get to jump through hoops.

WAW

Plenty of inefficient and ineffective practices in the private sector. Having worked in both public and private, and made many job applications in both during my working life, I smile to myself sometimes when I hear/read constant negativity about public sector recruitment and other practices whilst holding up the private sector as some model of best practice. The private sector is first off not an homogeneous sector: rather it is composed of many different operations, some progressive and efficient, others backward and inefficient.
The public sector should not necessarily seek to transfer systems and processes from the private sector as their roles, functions and goals are different. But yes, certainly public sector can learn some things from the private and vice versa.
There is also plenty of slacking off in many private sector businesses. I've met some of the finest minds and committed Trojan workers in the public sector.
To an extent, I agree about the application form being a screening exercise in itself. Public service requires extreme patience with often frustrating people, processes, systems and legal constraints. I like to think those kind of forms are, in some ways, a reflection of that!

Max Mustermann

The standard form is all about consistency, and providing everyone with a fair shot from a level playing field.

chrismean

Currently based overseas - anyone know more about when they tend to schedule the in-person tests as opposed to online? do they give much notice if you're called to do them?

tea and coffee

TaurenDruid wrote: »

Well that's signed, sealed, GDPR box ticked (even though it's a really confusing 'Tick box to exclude this section', whut?), and delivered. See ye over the course of the next 200+ pages on this thread! ;-)

What gdpr thing? I just attached the form and the other small form was pre populated for me.... and it seems to have gone through. I'm a bit worried now

Max Mustermann

tea and coffee wrote: »

What gdpr thing? I just attached the form and the other small form was pre populated for me.... and it seems to have gone through. I'm a bit worried now

That would be the checkbox on the last page of the PDF form. See my earlier post here at the top of page 11 for more details. I ticked it myself after much deliberation.

TaurenDruid

chrismean wrote: »

Currently based overseas - anyone know more about when they tend to schedule the in-person tests as opposed to online? do they give much notice if you're called to do them?

Looking at the 2016 competition, they messaged me over a weekend in mid-August to advise that my test date was at the end of August - slightly less than two weeks' notice.

TaurenDruid

Max Mustermann wrote: »

That would be the checkbox on the last page of the PDF form. See my earlier post here at the top of page 11 for more details. I ticked it myself after much deliberation.

Yeah, it wouldn't let you save the form unless you had it ticked. Or, at least, you'd get a popup saying "You must agree to the GDPR statement" with a red warning triangle if you went to save the form and it wasn't ticked.

It was just completely devoid of any mention of GDPR or why you were ticking it - in fact, as mentioned, it just says "Click here to exclude this section" - but by a process of elimination, it must have been the GDPR thing?

Right?

TaurenDruid

WAW wrote: »

Plenty of inefficient and ineffective practices in the private sector. Having worked in both public and private, and made many job applications in both during my working life, I smile to myself sometimes when I hear/read constant negativity about public sector recruitment and other practices whilst holding up the private sector as some model of best practice.

This.

Go look at any of the hosted customer service forums on here for banks, ISPs, telcos. Go look at many of the Work & Jobs threads.

Everything from laziness, ineptitude, and inefficiency all the way up to dishonesty and illegality. The private sector is no different to the public sector in that regard.

AndrewJRenko

HowItsMade wrote: »

Some laugh reading this tread.

The civil service in this country is inept and from the vibe in here full of incompetent people pushing for promotions upon which they can brag about once they achieve them.

A number of you wouldn’t get past an application process in the private sector, hang on in there for dear life.

A real alarm, not sure what training you get once in the civil service but anyone I’ve spoken to says it’s nonexistent and a number of them sit in the office for an hour after their shift prying some overtime.

And now another group will be promoted within and churn the square wheel for another few years.

Let us know when you get back from 1978

Max Mustermann

TaurenDruid wrote: »

Yeah, it wouldn't let you save the form unless you had it ticked. Or, at least, you'd get a popup saying "You must agree to the GDPR statement" with a red warning triangle if you went to save the form and it wasn't ticked.

It was just completely devoid of any mention of GDPR or why you were ticking it - in fact, as mentioned, it just says "Click here to exclude this section" - but by a process of elimination, it must have been the GDPR thing?

Right?

Judgement, Analysis and Decision Making Skills were well exercised on that one

bobbysands81

TaurenDruid wrote: »

This.

Go look at any of the hosted customer service forums on here for banks, ISPs, telcos. Go look at many of the Work & Jobs threads.

Everything from laziness, ineptitude, and inefficiency all the way up to dishonesty and illegality. The private sector is no different to the public sector in that regard.

The only difference is from the media.

The media take the worst case scenario and paint it that everyone in the public sector acts that way, then they take the best case scenario and paint it that everyone in the private sector adheres to it.

Crunchymomma

chrismean wrote: »

Currently based overseas - anyone know more about when they tend to schedule the in-person tests as opposed to online? do they give much notice if you're called to do them?

I usually have gotten about two weeks notice in the past

brownbinman

I signed up to one of them practice test sites in advance of the online assessments. Anyone what tests will be included?

Crunchymomma

brownbinman wrote: »

I signed up to one of them practice test sites in advance of the online assessments. Anyone what tests will be included?

I would presume that it's an assessment questionnaire, verbal and numerical reasoning.

Id say pretest info will be out by the end of this week

gerrybbadd

Just got a message to say tests won't be taking place now as indicated

quad_red

gerrybbadd wrote: »

Just got a message to say tests won't be taking place now as indicated

Yeah. What's that about I wonder.

willthiswork

quad_red wrote: »

Yeah. What's that about I wonder.

I just got the message too. Maybe they got a load more applications than they expected?

RunRoryRun

Same here - glad it's not just me!

brownbinman

Ideal for me to be honest, be at Okterfest till the Monday, still be shook by Wednesday

Aglomerado

And me. Feck anyway, have a trip booked the week after....

I did one of these yokes abroad before and was successful, but it wasn't ideal!