Women who are "not maternal" having kids

BuboBubo

FriendsEV wrote: »

Why do the women who are not paternal love animals?

Let me guess you have 2 dogs and a cat

Treat them like babies

Childfree pet owner here! Hi! Two dogs, 3 cats, hens, a ferret.

Cats are independent as fcuk, cannot be compared to needy sprogs. I've always found it weird when people say "Your cat/dog/ferret must be like 'your baby' ", like some furry spawn substitute, to me.

I've no notion where the idea comes from, but I've heard it several times over the years, my own sister once said it to me. Some people have pets, some kids, some have neither/or, some have *gasp* both!

Cats bury their sh1t, they go outside - supervision unnecessary. Dogs are great companions, couldn't compare them to children really. My old mutt here is stress free - no nappies or tantrums or meltdowns. Tantrums and meltdowns the same thing? Or is the meltdown worse?

Anyway, I may go, the ferret needs it's nappy changed...

meeeeh

Malayalam wrote: »

Lol, ya reckon? Maybe.
I think the ''too'' falls under my qualification already expressed of unintentional or imprecise words, which we would clarify over the kitchen table in real time. I think he was refering wholly to himself. But sure lookit, he can clarify that, and I hope people would not pile in on someone for the careless use of a tiny adverb. Otherwise his expression was a sweet one of overwhelming parental love as a transformative experience, HIS experience - one which I attest to.

I wouldn't trust someone who goes on all lyrical about having couple of brats. I think they consider even parenting as a competitive sport where their feelings have to be deeper, purer and the experience of life more profound than what others experience. But then again I would probably avoid someone who goes all lyrical about anything. You always feel you will get a free Bible (Koran, Self help book...) with the speech.

Yes I am shallow and proud...

spookwoman

seamus wrote: »

Well, nothing, because he was referring to people who choose to not have children.

As cliché and arrogant as it sounds, unless you have a child of your own, or have played the permanent carer role for someone, it is next to impossible to understand the experience.

That said, I don't subscribe to a choice one way or another being the "right" one. There is no right choice at the end of the day, and people who have kids are selfish, people who don't have kids, are selfish. Claiming any kind of one-upmanship or moral superiority about your choice just indicates that you're a vacuous moron.

Likewise, it's impossible for me to understand the "experience" of being in a warzone, or cave diving, or orbiting the earth.

Just because I haven't and/or won't have these experiences, doesn't mean someone who has, is in anyway superior to me. Nor are they things I should or must experience to get everything out of life.

Children, just the same. Do or don't, up to you. Childlessness freedom through your 30s and 40s is a life experience that I won't have, that someone else will. Some choices in life are binary, you don't get to do both. Sometimes you don't even get a choice.

But some people think that having a child is the be all and end all of everything and everyone should go through it or you're selfish. It's like the speech I got from some pro lifer and how I would change my mind if I had one and that I should have a child. My experience of people like that is they think their little johnny is an angel and couldn't do anything wrong, while everyone else see's johnny for what he truly is, a little sh*t who's not far off being sociopath.
Why can't people just accept it, no everyone wants children or likes them, those with children you expect people to be tolerant and put up with your children so why can't they be tolerant and accept the choices of those who don't want them.

BuboBubo

spookwoman wrote: »

But some people think that having a child is the be all and end all of everything and everyone should go through it or you're selfish. It's like the speech I got from some pro lifer and how I would change my mind if I had one and that I should have a child. My experience of people like that is they think their little johnny is an angel and couldn't do anything wrong, while everyone else see's johnny for what he truly is, a little sh*t who's not far off being sociopath.
Why can't people just accept it, no everyone wants children or likes them, those with children you expect people to be tolerant and put up with your children so why can't they be tolerant and accept the choices of those who don't want them.

I used to get that a lot, told to "get on with it" asked if there's "any stir" whilst they stare at my belly, the usual clichès.

I'm in my mid 40s now. It all stops when you get to 42ish. You're presumed barren at that age, you'll get the sympathetic head shakers occasionally, from the same people who cry aloud about college fees and "The school uniform grant is sooo late" brigade.

Smile and nod. Enjoy the freedom. When you're 89, chose your own nursing home if necessary.

Spookwoman, remember this one sentence from a veteran "misery loves company"

Malayalam

meeeeh wrote: »

I wouldn't trust someone who goes on all lyrical about having couple of brats. I think they consider even parenting as a competitive sport where their feelings have to be deeper, purer and the experience of life more profound than what others experience. But then again I would probably avoid someone who goes all lyrical about anything. You always feel you will get a free Bible (Koran, Self help book...) with the speech.

Yes I am shallow and proud...

I don't see that happening in ordinary life.
In a moment of revelation a person might express how deeply (aka lyrically) they feel about their children, but it is not something people generally chat about, that I have found. It comes up from time to time, and quite naturally so.
Haven't met the competitive sport type parent either, though they may abound if i went looking for them - I honestly don't meet them, my circle is small.

But where would you draw the line with people being lyrical? Without being in the least bit religious, people might practice concious conception - ie they might make love with the conscious intention of creating life, and they might feel quite emotional about that. I'd imagine most people consciously procreate nowadays actually- which surely involves some deep feelings. Maybe they would like to express that sometimes?
People might also find the gestation of a baby within their own or their lover's body to be somehow awe-inducing, they might feel quite deep and lyrical about it, they may even express it in public, just like people might rave about their adorable puppy, I guess.
People seem to often find the moment of birth to be ''miraculous'' somehow - even non-religious people can at that event be over-whelmed with very profound, almost metaphysical, emotions and thoughts and realisations.
None of these are uncommon experiences, some of the effects can last the whole life time in people's psyche, so where is the limit of lyricism that so many people can express about their life experiences that is suitable to people that have no patience for hearing about ''brats''?

farmchoice

....... wrote: »

Sounded like a load of rubbish to me.

Frankly he was making out that he was a higher being than anyone who never had a child or even who experienced love.

A wiser more lived man for having had children. Remaining single being the "easy option".

Offensive on many levels.

god you're very touchy about the whole thing, if you dont want to have children good luck to you, do what you want.



to outline ones own experience of having children is not offensive on any level and you would want to be very thin skinned to find anything offensive in that post.

BrokenArrows

As a male im indifferent at the moment to having kids.
My wife isn't mad about them either but she is also afraid that she will be a terrible mother based on her own experience being raised.

So at the moment we just got 2 cats. Haha.

spookwoman

BuboBubo wrote: »

I used to get that a lot, told to "get on with it" asked if there's "any stir" whilst they stare at my belly, the usual clichès.

I'm in my mid 40s now. It all stops when you get to 42ish. You're presumed barren at that age, you'll get the sympathetic head shakers occasionally, from the same people who cry aloud about college fees and "The school uniform grant is sooo late" brigade.

Smile and nod. Enjoy the freedom. When you're 89, chose your own nursing home if necessary.

Spookwoman, remember this one sentence from a veteran "misery loves company"

One of the lucky ones was never asked when etc. Probably because my aunt was the same, they chose not to have kids. Also a lot to do with how I was raised about personal responsibility. Was told if I have kids they are my responsibility and I cannot expect others to care for them. As my parents said they done their time raising me so its their turn to get their lives back.

meeeeh

BuboBubo wrote: »

My old mutt here is stress free - no nappies or tantrums or meltdowns.

Except chewing on furniture, digging hole into a leather couch, digging up half of the garden, chasing and killing cats dumb enough to go near the house, fighting foxes, chasing deer, barking at Jehova Witnesses, attacking other dogs... I do miss our old dog but he probably caused a lot more damage than our kids.

notsoyoungwan

I always find these threads hilarious, with the clamour of parents telling us childfree souls just how wonderful, transformative and utterly life-changing it is to have children. How pure a love it is, how all-encompassing and selfless. Ask them why they had children and you’ll get responses such as: I felt a want for one/ I wanted to give something back/ I wanted to continue the family line/ I wanted to bring up someone who could leave a mark on the world/ I wanted to create this life with my partner/ I wanted to be a better person etc etc etc. See any pattern here? They wanted to do something, so they did it. Yet it’s the childfree who are selfish?!

And I really do have to laugh at the utter narcissism involved in the thought process about leaving the world a better place by having kids. Do all of them really think that in this world of billions of people, they are so fcuking special that their kid will change the world for the better? Really?

Malayalam

notsoyoungwan wrote: »

I always find these threads hilarious, with the clamour of parents telling us childfree souls just how wonderful, transformative and utterly life-changing it is to have children. How pure a love it is, how all-encompassing and selfless. Ask them why they had children and you’ll get responses such as: I felt a want for one/ I wanted to give something back/ I wanted to continue the family line/ I wanted to bring up someone who could leave a mark on the world/ I wanted to create this life with my partner/ I wanted to be a better person etc etc etc. See any pattern here? They wanted to do something, so they did it. Yet it’s the childfree who are selfish?!

And I really do have to laugh at the utter narcissism involved in the thought process about leaving the world a better place by having kids. Do all of them really think that in this world of billions of people, they are so fcuking special that their kid will change the world for the better? Really?

But why are you ignoring the significant segment of people who express that they found having children life-changing AND are completely at ease with other people choosing not to have children? If I meet childless people it is NEVER the thought that crosses my mind. Honestly. My own sister is consciously child free and my best friend is child free. It is not necessarily a divisive issue - let the parents rhapsodise about their love for their children and let the child free adults equally rhapsodise about their joy at not having children. Simple.

LirW

notsoyoungwan wrote: »

I always find these threads hilarious, with the clamour of parents telling us childfree souls just how wonderful, transformative and utterly life-changing it is to have children. How pure a love it is, how all-encompassing and selfless. Ask them why they had children and you’ll get responses such as: I felt a want for one/ I wanted to give something back/ I wanted to continue the family line/ I wanted to bring up someone who could leave a mark on the world/ I wanted to create this life with my partner/ I wanted to be a better person etc etc etc. See any pattern here? They wanted to do something, so they did it. Yet it’s the childfree who are selfish?!

And I really do have to laugh at the utter narcissism involved in the thought process about leaving the world a better place by having kids. Do all of them really think that in this world of billions of people, they are so fcuking special that their kid will change the world for the better? Really?

I'd say that this is the extreme of parents walking around tooting out how amazing they and their offspring are. As a parent myself, I'm not too fond of them either.
But I'm also not very fond of the child-free brigade who have to tell everyone on how amazing their life without kids is.
Both extremes are rather boring to listen to because they don't have much to say. I prefer to keep these topics to myself, usually nobody wants to talk about it anyway in the real world and everyone can go as they please.
Don't wanna have them? Great! Want to have them? Good for you, go for it!

BuboBubo

meeeeh wrote: »

Except chewing on furniture, digging hole into a leather couch, digging up half of the garden, chasing and killing cats dumb enough to go near the house, fighting foxes, chasing deer, barking at Jehova Witnesses, attacking other dogs... I do miss our old dog but he probably caused a lot more damage than our kids.

My fella is getting a bit fat, he's only allowed to eat 3 Jehovah Witness a week now.

He was 7 years old when we got him from the rescue, no bad habits thankfully. My beautiful dutch leather furniture remains intact.

spookwoman

Malayalam wrote: »

let the parents rhapsodise about their love for their children and let the child free adults equally rhapsodise about their joy at not having children. Simple.

How exactly do child free adults rhapsodise about their joy at not having children in general conversation? I have never heard anyone say in conversation "Hey there Maggie guess what I did today because I have no kids....."

FriendsEV

BuboBubo wrote: »

Childfree pet owner here! Hi! Two dogs, 3 cats, hens, a ferret.

Cats are independent as fcuk, cannot be compared to needy sprogs. I've always found it weird when people say "Your cat/dog/ferret must be like 'your baby' ", like some furry spawn substitute, to me.

I've no notion where the idea comes from, but I've heard it several times over the years, my own sister once said it to me. Some people have pets, some kids, some have neither/or, some have *gasp* both!

Cats bury their sh1t, they go outside - supervision unnecessary. Dogs are great companions, couldn't compare them to children really. My old mutt here is stress free - no nappies or tantrums or meltdowns. Tantrums and meltdowns the same thing? Or is the meltdown worse?

Anyway, I may go, the ferret needs it's nappy changed...

Dogs are tough work

Having had a few of them, give me a toddler any day

professore

LirW wrote: »

I'd say that this is the extreme of parents walking around tooting out how amazing they and their offspring are. As a parent myself, I'm not too fond of them either.
But I'm also not very fond of the child-free brigade who have to tell everyone on how amazing their life without kids is.
Both extremes are rather boring to listen to because they don't have much to say. I prefer to keep these topics to myself, usually nobody wants to talk about it anyway in the real world and everyone can go as they please.
Don't wanna have them? Great! Want to have them? Good for you, go for it!

I suspect its the very ones that go on forever about how wonderful it is to have or not have kids are the exact same ones who get outrageously offended if you suggest you are happy with the alternative choice. I couldn't care less what someone else does with their life. That's their business.

Igotadose

Malayalam wrote: »

But why are you ignoring the significant segment of people who express that they found having children life-changing AND are completely at ease with other people choosing not to have children? If I meet childless people it is NEVER the thought that crosses my mind. Honestly. My own sister is consciously child free and my best friend is child free. It is not necessarily a divisive issue - let the parents rhapsodise about their love for their children and let the child free adults equally rhapsodise about their joy at not having children. Simple.

Tired of funding their lifestyle choices. Childfree are net contributors to society.

Malayalam

spookwoman wrote: »

How exactly do child free adults rhapsodise about their joy at not having children in general conversation? I have never heard anyone say in conversation "Hey there Maggie guess what I did today because I have no kids....."

It's perfectly easy I have had to sit green with envy while child free friends have told me about their trips to Mongolia or extended stays in beach huts in Vietnam. Spontaneous weekend trips away? Having money in general? It's no problem to convey child free joy. Sure whip up your blouse and show us your stretch mark free belly just the once and watch us wail and gnash our teeth

meeeeh

BuboBubo wrote: »

My fella is getting a bit fat, he's only allowed to eat 3 Jehovah Witness a week now.

He was 7 years old when we got him from the rescue, no bad habits thankfully. My beautiful dutch leather furniture remains intact.

Good for you but there is hassle with pets too or you are not caring for them properly. It's the same bs as people going on about how perfect their life having kids is. Having pets is completely different to having kids but neither are hassle free.

notsoyoungwan

Malayalam wrote: »

But why are you ignoring the significant segment of people who express that they found having children life-changing AND are completely at ease with other people choosing not to have children? If I meet childless people it is NEVER the thought that crosses my mind. Honestly. My own sister is consciously child free and my best friend is child free. It is not necessarily a divisive issue - let the parents rhapsodise about their love for their children and let the child free adults equally rhapsodise about their joy at not having children. Simple.

I’m responding to those who wax lyrical about their experience as a parent and then follow that with comments about those who are childfree by choice being immature/selfish/self-absorbed/vacuous/having empty unfulfilled lives etc.

I have NEVER started a discussion with any parent about why I am childfree. Not once. I have however, responded to various parents on multiple occasions when they start soliloquies about their transformative experiences, and come out with the patronizing guff about how I just couldn’t understand it and won’t do so til I have my own. If they just said “oh you’ve no kids, cool” and move on, that’d be fine. And plenty people do that. Those who don’t however, well I will defend my position to them.

Malayalam

notsoyoungwan wrote: »

I’m responding to those who wax lyrical about their experience as a parent and then follow that with comments about those who are childfree by choice being immature/selfish/self-absorbed/vacuous/having empty unfulfilled lives etc.

I have NEVER started a discussion with any parent about why I am childfree. Not once. I have however, responded to various parents on multiple occasions when they start soliloquies about their transformative experiences, and come out with the patronizing guff about how I just couldn’t understand it and won’t do so til I have my own. If they just said “oh you’ve no kids, cool” and no vex on, that’d be fine. And plenty people do that. Those who don’t however, well I will defend my position to them.

Yeah, I understand. It would be vexing alright. I haven't met those particular arseholes.

LirW

Igotadose wrote: »

Tired of funding their lifestyle choices. Childfree are net contributors to society.

Tired of funding Irish water, tired of funding state pension for people who never bothered contributing, tired of funding a dysfunctional HSE, tired of funding roads in the West that I'll never use.

Get a grip, these kids will one day contribute too and it has been that way since the beginning of time. This is how it works in a society. You're tired of founding Mrs. Cash's lifestyle? I understand that but in the grand scheme of things that lady is quite a minority.

spookwoman

Malayalam wrote: »

It's perfectly easy I have had to sit green with envy while child free friends have told me about their trips to Mongolia or extended stays in beach huts in Vietnam. Spontaneous weekend trips away? Having money in general? It's no problem to convey child free joy. Sure whip up your blouse and show us your stretch mark free belly just the once and watch us wail and gnash our teeth

Why should it be different for someone without children who talk about their holidays compared to someone with kids or anything else. As they say you made your bed now you have to sleep in it.

meeeeh

Igotadose wrote: »

Tired of funding their lifestyle choices. Childfree are net contributors to society.

Until they need future generations to work for their pension. Except the accommodating ones who drop dead at 65.

pickarooney

Igotadose wrote: »

Tired of funding their lifestyle choices. Childfree are net contributors to society.

Unless they're ill, or old, or unemployed or... bit of a nonsense statement, really.

.......

farmchoice wrote: »

to outline ones own experience of having children is not offensive on any level

When you refer to child free people as ***** then I find it offensive.

.......

Malayalam wrote: »

Yeah, I understand. It would be vexing alright. I haven't met those particular arseholes.

You are defending one of them on this very thread.

Anyone who assumes their life experience is the best experience goes down about fifty notches in my view. It is at best arrogant and at worse narcissistic. I don't know what it is like to be a parent and experience the love of a child. Plenty of people have spent the majority of their adult lives as parents and don't know what it's like to be single or childfree at 40, they don't know what an adult relationship is like without children, or that person who married their first love and has never dated anyone else? Are they missing out? Is my life experience so much more meaningful and whole than those people? Of course not. It's just different. Having children is different to not having children. Life comes in many shapes and sizes and I think that's a great thing.

rainbowtrout

Malayalam wrote: »

It's perfectly easy I have had to sit green with envy while child free friends have told me about their trips to Mongolia or extended stays in beach huts in Vietnam. Spontaneous weekend trips away? Having money in general? It's no problem to convey child free joy. Sure whip up your blouse and show us your stretch mark free belly just the once and watch us wail and gnash our teeth

So your child free friends are not allowed talk about anything they do in their lives because it doesn't involve children, and they are only doing it to convey how they are child free???? FFS.

Are trips to Mongolia acceptable only if you have a few children in tow?

mariaalice

This is bizarre in the extream, its just different choices in life, not a competition to see who has the best life it's very hard to quantify that anyway.

The one thing I have noticed about childless people is that they tend to be still living the late twenties early thirties stage of their life even in their fifties, whereas those with children move on to a different stage in their life. It is possible to do with having more money.