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Trans Pride

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    #62
    JackTaylorFan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭JackTaylorFan


    Jared Skinny Collar wrote: »
    Yes, anyone who asks a question is attacking you :rolleyes:

    Not everyone; but certainly you.


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    #63
    JackTaylorFan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭JackTaylorFan


    Glad I was able to get to the bottom of you transphobia though. Cheers :)


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    #64
    7aubzxk43m2sni
    Closed Accounts Posts: 636 ✭✭✭7aubzxk43m2sni


    JackTaylorFan wrote: »
    And now, just blatant misgendering... this was always inevitable..

    Oh my god.

    How should I know your gender?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dude
    In the early 1960s, dude became prominent in surfer culture as a synonym of guy or fella. The female equivalent was "dudette" or "dudess," but these have both fallen into disuse, and "dude" is now also used as a unisex term.

    If you're trolling, you're doing a magnificent job.


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    #65
    JackTaylorFan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭JackTaylorFan


    Jared Skinny Collar wrote: »
    ...

    Stuff your wiki links - we all know what you meant.


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    #66
    7aubzxk43m2sni
    Closed Accounts Posts: 636 ✭✭✭7aubzxk43m2sni


    JackTaylorFan wrote: »
    Stuff your wiki links - we all know what you meant.

    You realise you're literally the "DID YOU JUST ASSUME MY GENDER??" meme come to life?

    Do you honestly expect people to double check people's gender identites online before using any term to address them? (even gender neutral ones are unacceptable apparently?)

    Once again it's easier for you to write off anyone who questions even the smallest aspect of your worldview as a bigot or a transphobic right winger, than to contend with the idea that reasonable people might not agree with 100% of what you think and say.


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    #67
    JackTaylorFan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭JackTaylorFan


    Jared Skinny Collar wrote: »
    You realise you're literally the "DID YOU JUST ASSUME MY GENDER??" meme come to life?

    Do you honestly expect people to double check people's gender identites online before using any term to address them? (even gender neutral ones are unacceptable apparently?)

    Once again it's easier for you to write off anyone who questions even the smallest aspect of your worldview as a bigot or a transphobic right winger, than to contend with the idea that reasonable people might not agree with 100% of what you think and say.

    And here comes the gaslighting.. Yawn...

    P.S: the only people who do the "Did you just assume my gender" jokes are transphobes, isn't that a curious one.


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    #68
    7aubzxk43m2sni
    Closed Accounts Posts: 636 ✭✭✭7aubzxk43m2sni


    JackTaylorFan wrote: »
    And here comes the gaslighting.. Yawn...

    P.S: the only people who do the "Did you just assume my gender" jokes are transphobes, isn't that a curious one.

    Really? Everyone who has made a reference to "Did you just assume my gender" is transphobic?

    Do you think it's possible that they are annoyed by hypersensitivity such as you've displayed in this thread, rather than the issue of transitioning itself?


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    #69
    pjohnson
    Registered Users Posts: 23,197 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    JackTaylorFan wrote: »
    And here comes the gaslighting.. Yawn...

    P.S: the only people who do the "Did you just assume my gender" jokes are transphobes, isn't that a curious one.

    Is everyone who slightly disagree's with you a bigoted transphobe?


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    #70
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,815 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    P_1 wrote: »
    The standard of debate on it here is frankly shocking tbh.

    Mod

    To be fair do you have to debate your identity? I presume you are heterosexual and cisgender. Do you have to defend your heterosexuality and cisgenderism? Its perfectly understandable to me why heckles can be raised sometimes when Cisgender Heterosexual people come in looking for a "debate" on our identities. Its also perfectly understandable why heckles can be raised when people who have been active on the site elsewhere decrying our identities come in here looking for a "debate"

    The idea of this forum is not meant to be a "debate" about lgbt people and indeed about lgbt peoples very existence. It is not meant to be a place where lgbt people have to constantly defend ourselves in "debate"

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #71
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,815 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Mod

    I have been requested to reopen the thread. Please report any posts you believe to be trolling, sniping, offensive and let the mods deal with them. Please ensure this thread is civil, respectful and mature.

    If you dont follow these mod directions then you will be subject to mod sanction.

    As always we dont discuss moderation on thread. Any issues pm me.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #72
    P_1
    Registered Users Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    Jared Skinny Collar wrote: »
    Oh my god.

    How should I know your gender?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dude

    .

    Folks misgendering can be a massive slur against someone who is trans or non binary.

    If in doubt use gender neutral terms

    Conversely gender identity can be a massive headscratcher for people who may not have as much exposure as others to get their heads around so if they're genuine cut them some slack.


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    #73
    7aubzxk43m2sni
    Closed Accounts Posts: 636 ✭✭✭7aubzxk43m2sni


    P_1 wrote: »
    Folks misgendering can be a massive slur against someone who is trans or non binary.

    If in doubt use gender neutral terms

    Conversely gender identity can be a massive headscratcher for people who may not have as much exposure as others to get their heads around so if they're genuine cut them some slack.

    I appreciate your efforts to be rational and non divisive.

    Dude, however, is a gender neutral term.

    Additionally, given the absolute absence of any gender identifying attributes on a forum site like boards, why should anyone
    a) be accused of being transphobic for "misgendering" someone who's gender they don't know, or

    b) be offended by a term like "dude", "man", "guy" or similar when the purpose of the term is clearly not to assign a gender to that person, but rather address them in a relatively friendly way


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    #74
    P_1
    Registered Users Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    Jared Skinny Collar wrote: »
    I appreciate your efforts to be rational and non divisive.

    Dude, however, is a gender neutral term.

    Additionally, given the absolute absence of any gender identifying attributes on a forum site like boards, why should anyone
    a) be accused of being transphobic for "misgendering" someone who's gender they don't know, or

    b) be offended by a term like "dude", "man", "guy" or similar when the purpose of the term is clearly not to assign a gender to that person, but rather address them in a relatively friendly way

    While it is or at least that was its original intention now it's what I'd class as a loaded gender neutral term. Like it's more masculine than feminine.

    And dude c'mon you knew well from reading that posters posts that they are trans.

    This pointless antagonism serves nobody any purpose


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    #75
    7aubzxk43m2sni
    Closed Accounts Posts: 636 ✭✭✭7aubzxk43m2sni


    P_1 wrote: »
    While it is or at least that was its original intention now it's what I'd class as a loaded gender neutral term. Like it's more masculine than feminine.

    And dude c'mon you knew well from reading that posters posts that they are trans.

    This pointless antagonism serves nobody any purpose

    I genuinely put zero thought into the term or the poster's gender when posting, as I've said before. Antagonism implies I wrote "dude" with intent, which clearly I didn't.

    I used it in the exact same manner you just did with me. Should I be offended that you assumed I'm a man?

    I haven't been seeking any argument, I've asked questions in every post, none of which have been addressed. If a poster doesn't want to engage, cool. If a poster chooses to be offended by everything I post, no problem. If someone is going to accuse myself and others of bigorty, transphobia, and whatever else, with absolutely no foundation, I'm going to respond to that.


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    #76
    LLMMLL
    Registered Users Posts: 4,588 ✭✭✭LLMMLL


    Jared Skinny Collar wrote: »
    I genuinely put zero thought into the term or the poster's gender when posting, as I've said before. Antagonism implies I wrote "dude" with intent, which clearly I didn't.

    That’s not clear at all.

    I used it in the exact same manner you just did with me. Should I be offended that you assumed I'm a man?

    The fact that you think misgendering a trans person is the same as assuming a cis man is a cis woman or vice versa online demonstrates your complete lack of understanding of trans issues.


  • Options
    #77
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,815 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    MOD

    Can we move on please. In future please respect JTFs wishes to refer to her using she/her pronouns and feminine terminology

    As always feedback on moderation should be by pm only.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #78
    7aubzxk43m2sni
    Closed Accounts Posts: 636 ✭✭✭7aubzxk43m2sni


    SNIP

    Please see mod warning above


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    #79
    P_1
    Registered Users Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    If anything this proves how difficult a medium text is to communicate through.

    I'm hesitant to kick this Hornets nest after the trainwreck that was the AH thread but what are people's opinions on the reccomended revisions to the Gender Recognition Act?


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    #80
    7aubzxk43m2sni
    Closed Accounts Posts: 636 ✭✭✭7aubzxk43m2sni


    P_1 wrote: »
    If anything this proves how difficult a medium text is to communicate through.

    I'm hesitant to kick this Hornets nest after the trainwreck that was the AH thread but what are people's opinions on the reccomended revisions to the Gender Recognition Act?

    I'm not fully informed on the issue, but having read the irish times article on it, I've the following questions:
    Currently, those who identify as non-binary are required to declare as the gender assigned to them at birth.

    How often do we have to declare as our gender in life, and why is it helpful to remove the necessity of declaring our gender in these instances?
    Under the existing legislation, children under the age of 16 are currently prohibited from accessing gender recognition, while teenagers aged 16-17 must go through a medical and psychiatric process before changing.

    The report recommends that all children under the age of 18 should be allowed to change their gender if they have consent from both parents.

    To me this seems like a huge step. I've raised the reasons for my concern regarding the decisions the children are being allowed to make under the age where they are otherwise allowed to.

    Even if they said children from 12 up I'd have concerns, but no age limit at all seems unreasonable.

    The report also contains a recommendation to produce a straightforward process if the child wishes to reverse that decision at a later stage in their life.

    Is this not a clear admission that there's a decent chance some of these children will regret "their" decision?


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    #81
    P_1
    Registered Users Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    Jared Skinny Collar wrote: »
    I'm not fully informed on the issue, but having read the irish times article on it, I've the following questions:



    How often do we have to declare as our gender in life, and why is it helpful to remove the necessity of declaring our gender in these instances?



    To me this seems like a huge step. I've raised the reasons for my concern regarding the decisions the children are being allowed to make under the age where they are otherwise allowed to.

    Even if they said children from 12 up I'd have concerns, but no age limit at all seems unreasonable.




    Is this not a clear admission that there's a decent chance some of these children will regret "their" decision?

    Re question 1. It depends 100% on the individual. For some being forced to chose a gender on say a passport or a driving licence can be problematic particularly if they're presenting as the opposite gender to what is stated on the document.

    Re question 2. My understanding of it is that they may transition socially and on documentation but not actually medically transition under these proposals. Happy to be corrected if that's not the case.

    Re question 3. I understand this is to do with official documentation


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