Trans Pride

P_1

Anyone go? Any opinions? Thought the final rally in Fairview Park was very well put together with some fantastic speakers. Wasn't too pushed about the rally at the Custom House at the beginning, too many people pushing their on agendas and standing about in the rain probably didn't help. Great to see such a large crowd for it in spite of the weather.

eviltwin

I was there with the family. No personal connection to the issue but we just felt it was important to be there and support it. We didn't do the walk, just went to the park. I thought it was great, there were more people there than I expected and a good atmosphere despite the weather. Well done to all involved in the organising.

Annasopra

Looks like a great event. Sorry I couldnt make it.

smokingman

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Looks like a great event. Sorry I couldnt make it.

Same here. Good crowd too by the looks of it on the twitter machine. Well done to all who participated.

JupiterKid

I may end up getting completely shot down for this but if there is a Pride which is supposed to include LGBT (and indeed I recall one Pride where transgender activist Dr Lydia Foy gave a moving post-parade speech at the Civic offices) - then why is there a need for a separate Trans Pride event?

Goodshape

JupiterKid wrote: »

I may end up getting completely shot down for this but if there is a Pride which is supposed to include LGBT (and indeed I recall one Pride where transgender activist Dr Lydia Foy gave a moving post-parade speech at the Civic offices) - then why is there a need for a separate Trans Pride event?

I guess because the Pride Parade has turned into more of a 'celebration', and the Trans community in particular still have reason to protest.


Glad to see and hear that this went well anyway. Was sorry I didn't make it in.

P_1

Goodshape wrote: »

I guess because the Pride Parade has turned into more of a 'celebration', and the Trans community in particular still have reason to protest.


Glad to see and hear that this went well anyway. Was sorry I didn't make it in.

That and well the main Pride has gotten far too comercialised. There's a justified IMO anger out there at, perticularly the MNCs who have questionable records in terms of treating their workers, using Pride essentially as a massive advertisement.

An_Toirpin

P_1 wrote: »

Anyone go? Any opinions? Thought the final rally in Fairview Park was very well put together with some fantastic speakers. Wasn't too pushed about the rally at the Custom House at the beginning, too many people pushing their on agendas and standing about in the rain probably didn't help. Great to see such a large crowd for it in spite of the weather.

They shot themselves in the foot with the incinery language.

P_1

An_Toirpin wrote: »

They shot themselves in the foot with the incinery language.

I presume you mean incendiary language there and what do you mean by that. Personally I found it quite measured and reasonable given the ****e trans people have to go through here

An_Toirpin

I agree it was fairly measured considering the abuse they get but two wrong don't make a right. Talking about TERFS like some did is pure hate.

Goodshape

An_Toirpin wrote: »

I agree it was fairly measured considering the abuse they get but two wrong don't make a right. Talking about TERFS like some did is pure hate.

Talking like TERFS as some do is pure hate.


See also: tone policing, e.g. https://www.headstuff.org/topical/tone-policing-repeal-the-8th/ or https://medium.com/@tessintrovert/racism-101-tone-policing-92481c044b6a

JackTaylorFan

Goodshape wrote: »

Talking like TERFS as some do is pure hate.


See also: tone policing, e.g. https://www.headstuff.org/topical/tone-policing-repeal-the-8th/ or https://medium.com/@tessintrovert/racism-101-tone-policing-92481c044b6a

I really wouldn't bother... the person you are replying to is obviously not being genuine in their concerns on any thread in this forum - for example: equating same sex parents to child abuse and all... :rolleyes:

7aubzxk43m2sni

Goodshape wrote: »

I guess because the Pride Parade has turned into more of a 'celebration', and the Trans community in particular still have reason to protest.


Glad to see and hear that this went well anyway. Was sorry I didn't make it in.

What are the main reasons for the trans community in Ireland to protest?

Goodshape

Jared Skinny Collar wrote: »

What are the main reasons for the trans community in Ireland to protest?

Lack of awareness would be one.

c montgomery

Goodshape wrote: »

Lack of awareness would be one.

Awareness of what?

Goodshape

c montgomery wrote: »

Awareness of what?

Of the main reasons for the trans community in Ireland to protest.

7aubzxk43m2sni

Goodshape wrote: »

Of the main reasons for the trans community in Ireland to protest.

Trans people need to protest to raise awareness of the reasons they have for protesting?

Goodshape

Jared Skinny Collar wrote: »

Trans people need to protest to raise awareness of the reasons they have for protesting?

Evidently, yes.

Annasopra

Jared Skinny Collar wrote: »

What are the main reasons for the trans community in Ireland to protest?

https://www.transpridedublin.org/about-trans-pride

Its all in the link

7aubzxk43m2sni

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

https://www.transpridedublin.org/about-trans-pride

Its all in the link

Thanks that's a lot more helpful

7aubzxk43m2sni

What's the blood ban?

robyntmorton

Jared Skinny Collar wrote: »

What are the main reasons for the trans community in Ireland to protest?

Oh I dunno, maybe things like healthcare, where for example:

• I am on a waiting list for a psychiatrist (who can really only tell me that yes, I am who I say I am - and that as I have been living my life as a normal woman for some time now does fit an arbitrary set of requirements for treatment that are frankly ridiculous), with no appointment date give, or no indication of when I might be seen (most estimates put it at about 3 years)
• That I have already been seen by a psychiatrist just to get to this point who said that I am a well adjusted woman with no mental health issues, but that I still need to jump through these hoops
• That the HSE sent me a letter recently telling me I am on yet another waiting list, with again no indication of wait time, and asking "do I really want to be on this list?" with an astonishingly short reply window before getting removed from it.

This of course doesn't even mention life in general, where even though most people are perfectly fine with, or at least tolerable of in an apathetic way, of trans people, you still get the "You just want to get into women's toilets and changing rooms [true] because you're a pervert who wants to rape them" or "You were born a man, you'll always be a man, and you'll die a man".

Essentially, it's a protest saying that we are normal people, and want to go about our normal lives like all the other normal people, without having sh*t thrown at us just by virtue of being who we are. This is similar enough to gay pride of decades past which was a protest. Okay, Pride in general now is more of a celebration than a protest (though a protest element will always be there) but it doesn't mean that all groups in the LGBT+ umbrella are as far along as others, and sometimes you do need to stand by yourselves to make yourselves heard and get your point across.

An_Toirpin

1. [font=poppins-semibold, poppins, sans-serif]Transgender people in Ireland suffer more hate crimes than anywhere else in Europe.[/font]
2. [font=poppins-semibold, poppins, sans-serif]Adequate Physical, Mental, and Sexual Healthcare for Trans or Intersex people in Ireland in almost non-existent. [/font]
3. [font=poppins-semibold, poppins, sans-serif]Non-Binary people are still not legally recognized[/font]
4. [font=poppins-semibold, poppins, sans-serif]Trans people under 16 are still not legally recognized as Trans.[/font]

Source: https://www.transpridedublin.org/about-trans-pride

1. Maybe but it is suprising so I'd like to see the data.
2. A valid request.
3. Non binary is what sociologists call a 'gender', not a sex. If you legally recognised non binary every single vital document would still need to describe the sex next to non-binary in order to allow them to recieve normal services and care so not sure that this is a viable solution.  
4. Under 16s legally are not recognised as intellutually able to make decisions. It is impossible to be sure you want to be trans until you are intelltually mature.

Goodshape

An_Toirpin wrote: »

1. Maybe but it is suprising so I'd like to see the data.
2. A valid request.
3. Non binary is what sociologists call a 'gender', not a sex. If you legally recognised non binary every single vital document would still need to describe the sex next to non-binary in order to allow them to recieve normal services and care so not sure that this is a viable solution.  
4. Under 16s legally are not recognised as intellutually able to make decisions. It is impossible to be sure you want to be trans until you are intelltually mature.

Cool – your opinions have been noted.

Thanks for contributing.

P_1

An_Toirpin wrote: »

1. Maybe but it is suprising so I'd like to see the data.
2. A valid request.
3. Non binary is what sociologists call a 'gender', not a sex. If you legally recognised non binary every single vital document would still need to describe the sex next to non-binary in order to allow them to recieve normal services and care so not sure that this is a viable solution.  
4. Under 16s legally are not recognised as intellutually able to make decisions. It is impossible to be sure you want to be trans until you are intelltually mature.

Ok to be fair points 2 and 4 I would agree with you on.

Point 1 yes it would be good to view data to confirm a sad suspicion I have.

Point 2 I would have a fundamental disagreement with you on.

JackTaylorFan

P_1 wrote: »

Ok to be fair points 2 and 4 I would agree with you on.

Point 1 yes it would be good to view data to confirm a sad suspicion I have.

Point 2 I would have a fundamental disagreement with you on.

I'm only going to wade in once here, on point 4 - which you are so in agreement with a very questionable Board's user. And that is to say this:

Nobody, at any point in their life, decides they "want" to be trans. But the question over a transperson's own bodily autonomy is very much like a case of underage abortion - this is their body and under proper medical supervision any trans person should have the right to decide what is happening regards their own body in - what is perceived by the individual experiencing it - the irreversible damage to their body from an unwanted, or the wrong, puberty. The fact is, this treatment at any early age is far less invasive than corrective procedures and surgeries later on in life - such as top surgery; facial hair removal etc. And even then there are some things that can never be corrected through surgeries - such as voice damage and skeletal structure. All of these permanent changes at this stage in development makes life a thousand times harder for a trans person in the long run. Blockers are by no means perfect, but they are, for trans people, a necessity.

Once puberty begins in earnest, trans kids should have the right to reversible blockers until the age of 16, during which at any point in treatment they can decide to desist the treatment if they wish, or alternatively begin full Hormone Replacement Therapy at 16. The undertaking of any such intervention is highly monitored and never taken lightly. The doctors, the patient and their parents/guardians will be well aware of the risks involved - far better than people on here searching for biased third party "research" on the matter.

I'm not going to argue the merits of this further with anyone on this thread either - trans healthcare is not up for debate.

P_1

JackTaylorFan wrote: »

I'm only going to wade in once here, on point 4 - which you are so in agreement with a very questionable Board's user. And that is to say this:

Nobody, at any point in their life, decides they "want" to be trans. But the question over a transperson's own bodily autonomy is very much like a case of underage abortion - this is their body and under proper medical supervision any trans person should have the right to decide what is happening regards their own body in - what is perceived by the individual experiencing it - the irreversible damage to their body from an unwanted, or the wrong, puberty. The fact is, this treatment at any early age is far less invasive than corrective procedures and surgeries later on in life - such as top surgery; facial hair removal etc. And even then there are some things that can never be corrected through surgeries - such as voice damage and skeletal structure. All of these permanent changes at this stage in development makes life a thousand times harder for a trans person in the long run. Blockers are by no means perfect, but they are, for trans people, a necessity.

Once puberty begins in earnest, trans kids should have the right to reversible blockers until the age of 16, during which at any point in treatment they can decide to desist the treatment if they wish, or alternatively begin full Hormone Replacement Therapy at 16. The undertaking of any such intervention is highly monitored and never taken lightly. The doctors, the patient and their parents/guardians will be well aware of the risks involved - far better than people on here searching for biased third party "research" on the matter.

I'm not going to argue the merits of this further with anyone on this thread either - trans healthcare is not up for debate.

Apologies I should have clarified.

"Under 16s legally are not recognised as intellutually able to make decisions." was what I agreed on, as currently that's how things are so to speak.

"It is impossible to be sure you want to be trans until you are intelltually mature." is well, horsesh*t.

The merits of puberty blockers is a controversial one but you're 100% correct, this isn't the place for that debate. Trans healthcare is a sad joke in this country and us miring down that rabbit hole is not going to to anything good to remedy that.

One final point and I mean this with no malice whatsoever, yes some people can have questionable opinions and can be potentially "blacklisted" as a result, that's a dangerous road to tread. Sometimes even the worst bigot in the world can come out with a point that makes you think. I think it's very important we don't lose sight of that. (Or that could just be me being some sort of a hippy dippy sh*te, you decide!)

JackTaylorFan

P_1 wrote: »

Sometimes even the worst bigot in the world can come out with a point that makes you think.

Nah... not really... unless you happen to be of the mindset that a Klan member holds an equal and fair opinion on a discussion concerning the validity of black people in America

Sometimes there is only one side worth hearing. Stop being an apologist for bigots already.

P_1

JackTaylorFan wrote: »

Nah... not really... unless you happen to be of the mindset that a Klan member holds an equal and fair opinion on a discussion concerning the validity of black people in America

Sometimes there is only one side worth hearing. Stop being an apologist for bigots already.

Well no but I do strongly believe that people should be given every opportunity to improve themselves and that shunning people or shouting bigot at them when they open their mouths is highly counterproductive. Look an asshole is always going to be an asshole, be they a liberal asshole or a conservative asshole, but believing that once an asshole, always an asshole is the way of life if a fúcking depressing way to view the world.

Also chapeau on a magnificent strawman.

JackTaylorFan

P_1 wrote: »

Well no but I do strongly believe that people should be given every opportunity to improve themselves and that shunning people or shouting bigot at them when they open their mouths is highly counterproductive. Look an asshole is always going to be an asshole, be they a liberal asshole or a conservative asshole, but believing that once an asshole, always an asshole is the way of life if a fúcking depressing way to view the world.

Right now, it's a ****ing depressing world for the majority of transpeople, because of the bigotry you are defending. Funny that...

P_1

JackTaylorFan wrote: »

Right now, it's a ****ing depressing world for the majority of transpeople, because of the bigotry you are defending. Funny that...

Jesus H Christ I'm not defending bigotry. Look yes it is a bloody shítty world full of assholes, TERFs, SWERFs, biggots and whatever else is waiting to come crawling out of the woodwork. But you know what isn't going to bloody help that, misconstruing what someone who is on the same fúcking side as you is saying and taking offence when they try to introduce some nuance to the conversation. The world isn't black and white and if you try to view it in that way you're only going to hurt yourself.