Failed IBT WTF?

Gavin

zubair wrote: »

Short term memory fella.

I don't see the issue? I didn't have a problem with Dave's competency in instruction, but I wasn't terribly happy with being given an A2.

I didn't particularly want to give him more money, so went to Aaron Rider training for the pre-test, and then the airport school were the only ones available for a progression module at the time I needed.

None of this is relevant to the point I was making though, that I was happy with the airport driving school, the instructor was perfectly good to deal with and a nice guy.

zubair

Apologies for putting you on the spot.

dbas

spray____ wrote: »

I've experience with him as well. He'll cater the program a bit to match the students needs if you know what I mean.

I've also had some experience with Dave Lyons at bikesafe.ie, and would highly recommend.

Did IBT with Mick in October. Bought a fazer 600 in March and pre test lesson the morning of my test in May with Dave Lyons and passed.
These lads are spot on and know their stuff

Faith+1

dbas wrote: »

Did IBT with Mick in October. Bought a fazer 600 in March and pre test lesson the morning of my test in May with Dave Lyons and passed.
These lads are spot on and know their stuff

Dave Lyons is the man. Does he still like his rollies? :pac:

dbas

Faith+1 wrote: »

Dave Lyons is the man. Does he still like his rollies? :pac:

He did a bit of biking between rollies to be fair

Malolan

Update on the topic: brother did the ibt on a bandit 600 with another instructor from different school and got his certificate.
I do not recommend the airport driving school.

Malolan

Malolan wrote: »

Update on the topic: brother did the ibt on a bandit 600 with another instructor from different school and got his certificate.
I do not recommend the airport driving school.

That's all good. As long as your brother is safe that's the main thing. I've the IBT with Airport driving school in two weeks time. They come highly recommended from one of the main dealers in my area. Of course I'd expect that they won't verify me if I'm not good enough. I've never ridden a motorbike before but I'm doing a two day course going from A1 up to A. Obviously I know jack **** but I'd imagine it's a steep learning curve to go from zero to certified on A in just two days even though I've been driving on country, town, city and motorway roads in a car for twelve years now. I'm wondering how long it will take me to get used to hand clutch and foot shift and hand brake. The concept seems totally foreign to me prior to trying it. I'm surprised that people actually get certified in two days in most cases given you could potentially be in control of a 1200cc beast after two days which is probably about as forgiving as a nazi firing squad. If they certify someone who is just not up to standard yet then they're doing them no favours. That person is at serious risk of an accident. You might be able to drive fine but if you're not checking your mirrors or indicating properly or you're forgetting to give a life saver look at crucial moments then you're in serious danger and you don't even realise it.

frozenfrozen

Enjoy your ibt and don't worry... The coordination will come to you fast

bladespin

Deleted User wrote:

I'm surprised that people actually get certified in two days in most cases given you could potentially be in control of a 1200cc beast after two days which is probably about as forgiving as a nazi firing squad.

Jaysus, wth kinda bike you gettin?

IMO IBT is a great thing but it's ridiculously expensive here, fair enough professional instructors, make a living etc etc BUT there should be some form if guarantee they will get you up to a basic level without looking for further payment, that or just cut the crap and say you're just not cut out for bikes and leave it there.

Malolan

[Deleted User] wrote: »

That's all good. As long as your brother is safe that's the main thing. I've the IBT with Airport driving school in two weeks time. They come highly recommended from one of the main dealers in my area. Of course I'd expect that they won't verify me if I'm not good enough. I've never ridden a motorbike before but I'm doing a two day course going from A1 up to A. Obviously I know jack **** but I'd imagine it's a steep learning curve to go from zero to certified on A in just two days even though I've been driving on country, town, city and motorway roads in a car for twelve years now. I'm wondering how long it will take me to get used to hand clutch and foot shift and hand brake. The concept seems totally foreign to me prior to trying it. I'm surprised that people actually get certified in two days in most cases given you could potentially be in control of a 1200cc beast after two days which is probably about as forgiving as a nazi firing squad. If they certify someone who is just not up to standard yet then they're doing them no favours. That person is at serious risk of an accident. You might be able to drive fine but if you're not checking your mirrors or indicating properly or you're forgetting to give a life saver look at crucial moments then you're in serious danger and you don't even realise it.

There's many good schools/instructors around. I've done my ibt with falcon driving academy and this was my first time on 600 bike in the traffic. Ermin was a very relaxed and patient instructor and I really enjoyed my course. Currently I'm riding a 600 hornet which I bought a month after I've done the ibt.
I have a really strong feeling that ads tried and did screw my brother on money, as he found another instructor who really cared to teach him as much as possible within those few hours and assessed him as capable of riding a 600 bandit.
What bike my brother is gonna buy and ride that's his decision.

Malolan

bladespin wrote: »

Jaysus, wth kinda bike you gettin?

IMO IBT is a great thing but it's ridiculously expensive here, fair enough professional instructors, make a living etc etc BUT there should be some form if guarantee they will get you up to a basic level without looking for further payment, that or just cut the crap and say you're just not cut out for bikes and leave it there.

That's what I'm thinking. The ads instructor my brother had simply didn't do much effort to bring a newbie to the level of riding an A cat bike. Instead tried to get him book privates for the extra money on top of what he already payed for his ibt.

Jackdaw89

Funny enough during my IBT I was stone useless on some keyway 125 yoke but when I hopped on an MT07 I was doing figure 8’s no bother.
The lad I done my ibt with needed an extra half day training to safety ride a bike, iv meet him since and he told me that the 3rd day was where he came round and felt good on the bike. Sometimes that extra few hours can pull everything together for you and some fellas egos can’t handle being told your not up to standard yet.
I don’t know the trainer but maybe he genuinely had concerns about your brothers safety, it’s allot of responsibility signing off on a new rider.

bladespin

bladespin wrote: »

Jaysus, wth kinda bike you gettin?

IMO IBT is a great thing but it's ridiculously expensive here, fair enough professional instructors, make a living etc etc BUT there should be some form if guarantee they will get you up to a basic level without looking for further payment, that or just cut the crap and say you're just not cut out for bikes and leave it there.

Ha ha. Nothing too wild to be honest. Getting a 250 Yamaha that's as old as myself. Once I get a bit of experience and know more about bikes then I'll go for something new or close to new that's more powerful. No idea really yet.

Del2005

bladespin wrote: »

Jaysus, wth kinda bike you gettin?

IMO IBT is a great thing but it's ridiculously expensive here, fair enough professional instructors, make a living etc etc BUT there should be some form if guarantee they will get you up to a basic level without looking for further payment, that or just cut the crap and say you're just not cut out for bikes and leave it there.

It's initial and basic training, if you can't make the level after the training why should the instructor work for free if the student isn't good enough to reach the criteria? I don't see teachers working for free to bring students who failed their leaving cert up to a pass level.

bladespin

Del2005 wrote:

It's initial and basic training, if you can't make the level after the training why should the instructor work for free if the student isn't good enough to reach the criteria? I don't see teachers working for free to bring students who failed their leaving cert up to a pass level.

Emmm, yes, you do, the student can repeat the leaving foc. Not really what I said though, if they're not capable then just break the news and move on rather than feathering the nest.
They're offering a product, the assumption is that they will get you up to a reasonable level, if that's not possible then the training offered is substandard or the student isn't capable.

Malolan

listermint wrote: »

There are people that literally can't drive at all ever and there are some who require far more tuition.

There is no such thing as everyone being in the same bucket but it's about getting everyone to minimum standard

It appears your brother does not yet meet that

Thanks for your input, my brother finished the ibt with another school and on a 600cc bike.

Del2005

bladespin wrote: »

Emmm, yes, you do, the student can repeat the leaving foc. Not really what I said though, if they're not capable then just break the news and move on rather than feathering the nest.
They're offering a product, the assumption is that they will get you up to a reasonable level, if that's not possible then the training offered is substandard or the student isn't capable.

It's not free it's double the price to repeat. Even if it's FoC for the student the teacher is still getting paid by the taxpayers to teach the repeat.

https://www.examinations.ie/?l=en&mc=ex&sc=ef


What feathering of the nest did the ADI do in the OP? The person failed the IBT and was told that they needed more lessons, they got more lessons from a different instructor and passed so the original instructor was correct.

Cian_ok

bladespin wrote: »

They're offering a product, the assumption is that they will get you up to a reasonable level, if that's not possible then the training offered is substandard or the student isn't capable.

I know that I struggled on day 1 of my IBT and I spent the first hour on the Sunday going round and round a block. 4 corners, stopping and starting. And then it just 'clicked' with me.

So it is possible that is neither instructor nor "incapable student".

bladespin

Del2005 wrote:

It's not free it's double the price to repeat. Even if it's FoC for the student the teacher is still getting paid by the taxpayers to teach the repeat.

Teacher gets paid the same not double.

If the job is to bring someone up to standard then that's the job, the number of lessons required may be more for some and less for others, just charge by the lesson and it's grand but supplying a course thats designed to deliver and then failing to do so without further purchase is just crap service.

BKtje

Deleted User wrote: »

Obviously I know jack **** but I'd imagine it's a steep learning curve to go from zero to certified on A in just two days even though I've been driving on country, town, city and motorway roads in a car for twelve years now. I'm wondering how long it will take me to get used to hand clutch and foot shift and hand brake.

While I've never done the IBT (learnt to drive in Switzerland where the system is similar though not the same) I didn't have too much trouble in getting the basics of the bike down. I got the bike delivered (Ninja 300) to the large carpark of where I used to live and then spent 2 hours learning the ropes by myself. Only dodgy moment was right at the start when I wanted to get moving for the first time and a car drove past at this exact moment causing me to panic and stall the engine.

After those two hours I drove on the road during quiet hours until I felt confident enough to ride in heavier traffic. I am in no way saying that I was a good driver at this point but I had the mechanical basics of the bike down. A month or two later I did the "IBT*" in Switzerland after which I felt much more confident and a month later I'd past my test and had my full licence (had to rent a bike though to qualify for the full licence).

frozenfrozen

Maybe I had a great IBT instructor but they covered a lot more than just how to drive around in a car park. Reading the road ahead, IPSGA, LIFESAVERS/MILM, corner entry lines, road positioning ETC.

A lot more than someone giving you a bike and a carpark filled with some cones anyway

bladespin

Cian_ok wrote:

I know that I struggled on day 1 of my IBT and I spent the first hour on the Sunday going round and round a block. 4 corners, stopping and starting. And then it just 'clicked' with me.

Riding can ba an alien concept to many, but did your instructor see you through or just tell you to get more lessons?

Cian_ok wrote:

So it is possible that is neither instructor nor "incapable student".

No, it's either one or the other, no-one jumps straight on and is capable from the start.

Cian_ok

bladespin wrote: »

Riding can ba an alien concept to many, but did your instructor see you through or just tell you to get more lessons?

In my case I struggled with the clutch. I've driven a car for years. The problem wasn't the instructor, or instruction. I knew exactly what i needed to do... I just had difficulty getting my hands to do it. Until it just 'worked'.

We started day 2 about an hour late because of that. But went out on the roads soon after.

But the problem was 100 % me. There is nothing that the instructor could have done differently. He was great.

And if I had taken another 4 hours on that then I wouldn't have passed the IBT and that wouldn't have been the instructors fault.

Hotblack Desiato

Hard to see how someone can be incompetent to be signed off on a category A but be just fine to be signed off on an A2

Sounds like a load of old bollocks to me.

zubair

By the sounds of it, Mick and Dave and probably many others are doing their best to give people what they paid for and teaching them to be safe riders on an A bike while other places are taking the money and running once the 16 hours are done.

Malolan

zubair wrote: »

By the sounds of it, Mick and Dave and probably many others are doing their best to give people what they paid for and teaching them to be safe riders on an A bike while other places are taking the money and running once the 16 hours are done.

If anyone is looking to do the ibt in Dublin I do not recommend the airport driving school.

D3V!L

Malolan wrote: »

If anyone is looking to do the ibt in Dublin I do not recommend the airport driving school.

You'll find most people wouldn't !!

They brought my missus out in monsoon type rain to do her IBT. She had to empty the water out of her boots at the end of the day. Even myself with 20 odd years on a bike wouldn't drive in it.

scarebus03

You don't fail the IBT, you need more practice. I was one of those with ADS and the instructor was correct in his assessment. I did an additional day the week after and passed. It just took some extra time for everything to click. I now have an ER6F, 77' KZ1000 and GTR1400 in the garage. The instructor has since moved on to another outfit and we are still good friends, it was a two and a half years ago but everybody is different and pick it up at a different pace. Did your brother feel he deserved to be signed off at that time? I know I didn't. I'm glad some 20,000 miles+ later that he invested the time in me and I didn't give up.

My 2 cents

Cheers

zubair

But did you have to pay for your additional day?!

scarebus03

Of course