US Presidential Election 2020

salmocab

I see yet again it’s circled round to other countries and how they faired with Covid. Saying America is on a par with other countries that did badly is not a good thing no matter how often it’s said. Being in the bottom 10 or so of 200+ is almost never a good thing And to suggest it that America did anything but a terrible job with Covid is laughable, there are plenty of reasons why but I’d put leadership right at the top.

eire4

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Italy were effectively the canary in the coalmine for the Virus, the US had the better part of a 3 month head start on them and the UK did an utterly SH!TE job , so yes - The US being on a par with them (so far , they will overtake them soon) is absolutely a measure of how appalling their response has been.




No.. He didn't

Just to be clear the US has overtaken both the UK and Italy in deaths on a per capita basis not just in terms of highest death toll.

everlast75

Whatever about the USA and its performance re COVID, it 100% clear that the President lied about COVID and has spread misinformation.

That is without a doubt.

He has also held rallies when best medical advice was not to do so.

Quin_Dub

everlast75 wrote: »

Whatever about the USA and its performance re COVID, it 100% clear that the President lied about COVID and has spread misinformation.

That is without a doubt.

He has also held rallies when best medical advice was not to do so.

Trump Is ‘The Largest Driver’ Of COVID-19 Conspiracy Theories, Study Finds

Nearly 38% of English-language news articles containing COVID-19 misinformation mentioned President Donald Trump, Cornell University researchers found.

From using racist rhetoric to promoting dangerous “miracle cures,” President Donald Trump is by far the biggest spreader of COVID-19 false claims, according to a new analysis by researchers at Cornell University’s Alliance for Science, which identifies and combats misinformation and conspiracy theories about science.

The study, published by the university on Thursday, examined over 38 million English-language news articles about the coronavirus from Jan. 1 to May 26. Of those, just over a million contained misinformation or disinformation. Misinformation is any false information, regardless of whether the person sharing it intended to mislead, and disinformation is shared with the specific intent of misleading or deceiving.

Trump, the researchers concluded, is “likely the largest driver of the COVID-19 misinformation.” Nearly 38% of the articles mentioned the president, the study found, making him “by far the largest single component of the infodemic.”

Outlaw Pete

Quin_Dub wrote: »

No.. He didn't.

Yes, he did ..

His "hysterical xenophobia" comment in Iowa was in direct response to Trump's China travel ban. It was not, as your "fact checkers" suggested, in response to him calling the virus the "China virus".

Not that I feel doing so would be an example of xenophobia anyway, as lots of media outlets were calling it that at the time (one example), but either way, can you least link to where Trump did that in January?

Outlaw Pete

spacecoyote wrote: »

Deaths per million is a poor comparison at this point anyway. US are comparable to Italy since the start of Covid maybe, but look at the graphs for the last few months.

It's ultimately the only metric that matters.

If you go roughly from May, Italy hit around 30k deaths then, theyve around 5k extra deaths in the last 4-5 months.

US was about 50k in May, and have had an extra 150k deaths since then.

Different approaches will result in the spread being different in places but ultimately deaths per million is what will be the metric upon how a country will be deemed to have done a good job or not.

Governors also play a part in how to mitigate the spread of the virus and Cuomo was happy to praise Trump's response in March:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EXefeZ7SGA

Later he began to play politics and turn on Trump when the numbers saw him criticized.

Trump is massively responsible for this. He's undermined the experts, flouted state laws and made absolutely zero effort to push his supporters to follow the guidelines

That's not true at all. Well and him and Fauci have bumped heads, Fauci has always maintained Trump has done what he asked of him:

Both sides can nit pick over comments here and there since Feb, Trump said this and democrats that, with regards to playing down Covid, but at the end of the day, the Coronavirus taskforce along with the administration did a sterling job, far better than could be expected, and people, imo, shouldn't be playing politics with the issue. What needs to be focused on is dealing with the aftermath soon and making sure China do what needs to be done to ensure that a pandemic of this nature never happens again .. and we need a leader in the Oval that can oversee that and Biden is not that leader, as we have seen with his eagerness to appease the progressives. We sure wouldn't have seen no early travel ban from China had he been in charge, that's for sure.

salmocab

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

the Coronavirus taskforce along with the administration did a sterling job, far better than could be expected, and people, imo, shouldn't be playing politics with the issue.

They did in their holes do a sterling job, Trump played politics with it by lying to the American people.

Outlaw Pete

I take it from that remark you are referring to him saying he tried to downplay it (with his words)? Well, that's an absurd take then to parse that as him having lied to the American public. Just because a leader watches what he says so as not to cause panic, does not mean that with his actions he is not doing whatever needs to be done and that is what the administration clearly did. Indeed, Trump said as much when tackled on it when he said:

"Actually, in many ways, I up-played it, in terms of action."

salmocab

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

I take it from that remark you are referring to him saying he tried to downplay it (with his words)? Well, that's an absurd take then to parse that as him having lied to the American public. Just because a leader watches what he says so as not to cause panic, does not mean that with his actions he is not doing whatever needs to be done and that is what the administration clearly did. Indeed, Trump said as much when tackled on it when he said:

He didn’t do what needed to be done at all though, he fiddled whilst Rome burned. The only thing absurd here is you either pretending he done a good job on this or worse believing he did.

Outlaw Pete

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

I take it from that remark you are referring to him saying he tried to downplay it (with his words)? Well, that's an absurd take then to parse that as him having lied to the American public. Just because a leader watches what he says so as not to cause panic, does not mean that with his actions he is not doing whatever needs to be done and that is what the administration clearly did. Indeed, Trump said as much when tackled on it when he said:

It's like watching an episode of the Twilight Zone. What I see from Trump is not what I actually see from Trump. He did everything he could, despite doing nothing. He didn't want to cause panic, but actively caused panic with inaction and looney conspiracy theories.

The ultimate irony of Trump and his supporters is the constant pointing finger at Antifa and BLM for wanting anarchy, while Trump's own inner circle have actively said that anarchy and violence is good for Trump.

Simple question Pete, which I know you won't answer. What do you think of Trump scrapping Obama's federal emergency plan to deal with medical pandemics? Go ahead and justify that piece of genius to me, I can't wait to hear it.

ancapailldorcha

Mod: Please use the appropriate thread to discuss Trump's presidency. This one is about the election.

Itssoeasy

Chris Wallace the moderator of that debate from this week is saying the majority of the blame for how the debate went falls on president trump. Between this and John roberts Fox News seem to not want the fallout from trump being trump on them anymore. I can’t blame Chris Wallace as he’s had a long career and clearly doesn’t want to be remembered for the mess on Tuesday.

briany

Trump wants thousands of his supporters to become 'poll watchers' on election day. Yeah, I can see that going really smoothly...

But I think this is an example of why Trump is smarter than people give him credit for. If only he used those smarts for things other than amoral self-aggrandisement, but that boat has probably sailed.

But what I think he's really doing is to have a load of hard-right types show up at polling stations and he knows that as sure as night follows day, a load of black bloc types will show up to confront them. The fighting could either cause the polling station to close or cause many to stay away. And if hard-left don't show up, then the poll watchers can still create an atmosphere that will give potential Biden voters pause.

It's all part of the tactics he's trying to employ to spread FUD over the election. As much chaos and strife as possible.

The best thing Biden can do is make an appeal that no poll-watcher-watchers show up. Violent Trump supporters absolutely feed off violence done against them and it gives them a chance to claim self defence and gain some sympathy in the eyes of the public. Do not give them that. Let them look like the unreasonable ones by kicking off first and let the police deal with them.

Water John

Chris Wallace says he didn't foresee it happening. What did he think Trump was going to do? The same as 2016, rinse and repeat.

Foxtrol

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Chris Wallace the moderator of that debate from this week is saying the majority of the blame for how the debate went falls on president trump. Between this and John roberts Fox News seem to not want the fallout from trump being trump on them anymore. I can’t blame Chris Wallace as he’s had a long career and clearly doesn’t want to be remembered for the mess on Tuesday.

I get where you're coming from but to me he does carry a decent bit of blame.

In his interview he admits to going easy on Trump initially for breaking the rules, claiming that he thought Trump would ease off on it as time went on. Everyone knows by this point that if you give Trump an inch he'll take several miles. It is like a ref letting a load of niggles go early in the game and claiming he doesn't hold any blame when it escalates.

Wallace fell into the usual media trap of trying to deal with 'both sides' equally, when one side is acting outrageously. If you don't call it out then it only gets worse.

Itssoeasy

Water John wrote: »

Chris Wallace says he didn't foresee it happening. What did he think Trump was going to do? The same as 2016, rinse and repeat.

That’s the only thing I’d say he’s wrong on as he knew what happened in 2016 and he recently interviewed Trump. But other than that I think he wasn’t the problem.

Water John

Wallace doesn't carry the blame, that lies solely with Trump.

briany

Foxtrol wrote: »

I get where you're coming from but to me he does carry a decent bit of blame.

In his interview he admits to going easy on Trump initially for breaking the rules, claiming that he thought Trump would ease off on it as time went on. Everyone knows by this point that if you give Trump an inch he'll take several miles. It is like a ref letting a load of niggles go early in the game and claiming he doesn't hold any blame when it escalates.

Wallace fell into the usual media trap of trying to deal with 'both sides' equally, when one side is acting outrageously. If you don't call it out then it only gets worse.

And Trump is on Twitter complaining that the debate was 2 on 1 against him! That's nuts. It makes me wonder what Wallace would have to have done to make Trump say it was a fair debate. Show up in a MAGA hat and join Trump in shouting Biden down?

marno21

First post debate poll

https://twitter.com/PpollingNumbers/status/1311703523265056769

Will be a string of these coming over the next few days no doubt about it.

everlast75

Water John wrote: »

Wallace doesn't carry the blame, that lies solely with Trump.

I listened to Preet's pod and the rules or lack thereof are the fault of the committee who set it up.

Very interesting listen

Foxtrol

everlast75 wrote: »

I listened to Preet's pod and the rules or lack thereof are the fault of the committee who set it up.

Very interesting listen

I'll have to give that a listen.

There is no way they hadn't agreed to basic rules like each person speaks for 2 minutes, a rule that Trump breached dozens of times. Sure they could have mute buttons but the thought that more rules would have stopped Trump acting the way he did (has repeatedly) seems pretty fanciful.

Gunmonkey

briany wrote: »

And Trump is on Twitter complaining that the debate was 2 on 1 against him! That's nuts. It makes me wonder what Wallace would have to have done to make Trump say it was a fair debate. Show up in a MAGA hat and join Trump in shouting Biden down?

Honestly.....only denying Biden a microphone for the whole debate, shout down Biden after he speaks for more than 10 seconds (possibly 5 depending on Trumps mood) to allow Trump to respond with a 7 minute long tirade, have more "Vote Trump" signs in the back/foreground, more pro-Trump members in the audience who are allowed to cheer/chant as they want, all questions can be answered with "Because I'm so great/ I'm so smart/ I'm the best President ever/ Because Obama wasnt born in America truefactslookitup!" Even allowing Biden into the building was probably his version of "Et tu, Wally!"

Maybe after all that he might have considered it somewhat fair.

amdublin

I feel bad for Chris Wallace. I guess he didn't expect Trump the child to turn up for a debate

He says that Trump bears most responsibility for how the debate went and:

"I had baked this beautiful, delicious cake and then frankly the President put his foot in it," Wallace said.

amdublin

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/01/politics/hope-hicks-positive-coronavirus/index.html

Breaking news:
Hope Hicks, a close advisor of Trump has tested positive for coronavirus

Tell me how

Kimberly Guilfoyle, Hope Hicks, Melania all in news for wrong reasons for Trump campaign at moment.

With the Bob Woodward news, the Atlantic story about his comments on dead soldiers, NY Times story on his taxes, his campaign has taken some hiding in the last month.

LessOutragePlz

Tell me how wrote: »

Kimberly Guilfoyle, Hope Hicks, Melania all in news for wrong reasons for Trump campaign at moment.

With the Bob Woodward news, the Atlantic story about his comments on dead soldiers, NY Times story on his taxes, his campaign has taken some hiding in the last month.

You can add him getting covid-19 to that list.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1311892190680014849?s=19

everlast75

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

You can add him getting covid-19 to that list.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1311892190680014849?s=19

All he had to do is not get tested!

LessOutragePlz

everlast75 wrote: »

All he had to do is not get tested!

This is going to be the greatest recovery from covid-19 that anyone has ever seen!

everlast75

*Puts on tin foil hat*

This is all a ploy. He got destroyed in the first debate and needed to get out of the rest without losing face.

He feels sorry for himself and so concocts a story with his GP to say he has COVID so people feel sorry for him too. Yet he is still able to manage day to day activities, therefore re-enforcing the perception that it is really nothing to worry about and people can go about their business.

duploelabs

everlast75 wrote: »

*Puts on tin foil hat*

This is all a ploy. He got destroyed in the first debate and needed to get out of the rest without losing face.

He feels sorry for himself and so concocts a story with his GP to say he has COVID so people feel sorry for him too. Yet he is still able to manage day to day activities, therefore re-enforcing the perception that it is really nothing to worry about and people can go about their business.

People will also forget that he's taking hydroxychloroquine to prevent him catching covid, it's meant to work right because trump said so