The Liam Miller memorial match and Rule 42

alaimacerc

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Nope.

An "obscure player" that's been capped 21 times for his country? What's your threshold for ever-so-mildly known?

You're trying to make out as if we'd all turned up at Bonniedog's house and forcibly administered a soccer pop quiz. He's entitled to know as little (or as much) as he likes, no problems there.

The difficulty is him repeatedly attempting to wave his claimed lack of knowledge around as if it were some sort of trump card. He's a walking Gaa-follower litmus test: if he's heard of someone, maybe his tribute match is Gaa-stadium-worthy, if he hasn't, no way.

Turnipman

Bonniedog wrote: »

before

I never heard of Liam Millar before. Same as soccer supporters probably never heard of Matt Connor who neve got a testimonial.

You had to go all the way back to poor Matt Connor to dig that bit of whataboutery out of the attic?

First, Matt didn't die, Liam Miller has.

And second, as far as I can remember (it was a long time ago) Matt's employers (AGS) kept him in his job until he retired.

You're comparing apples and potatoes there.

Murphy14

Firstly I believe the right thing to do is the play the match Pairc Ui Chaomhe however the FAI are getting away with their lack of foresight and development when they where loaded with money during the Charlton & Mc Carthy eras they failed to delevop or deliver significant stadia (Aviva developed primarily by IRFU) FAI should have major stadia in Cork, Limerick,Sligo and Dundalk
" Build it and they will come"

Brendan Bendar

Murphy14 wrote: »

Firstly I believe the right thing to do is the play the match Pairc Ui Chaomhe however the FAI are getting away with their lack of foresight and development when they where loaded with money during the Charlton & Mc Carthy eras they failed to delevop or deliver significant stadia (Aviva developed primarily by IRFU) FAI should have major stadia in Cork, Limerick,Sligo and Dundalk
" Build it and they will come"

I’m afraid that is in the realm of wishful thinking and if you really thought about it,pie in the sky stuff.

Your other points about the FAI are correct though.

Vunderground

I think the last thing this country needs is another few while elephant stadiums.

Speaking as someone who just enjoys sport as sport and used to enjoy this GAA forum a lot - I find this whole thing very depressing.

Bridge93

The uproar that would develop if the FAI built major stadia around the country with tax payer money for a league that doesn't fill the grounds in place currently. A lot of the stadiums need a makeover but they do not need to be any bigger then they are currently. The national team play in the Aviva. After that there just isn't the requirement for a series of big football stadiums

Fr Tod Umptious

Murphy14 wrote: »

Firstly I believe the right thing to do is the play the match Pairc Ui Chaomhe however the FAI are getting away with their lack of foresight and development when they where loaded with money during the Charlton & Mc Carthy eras they failed to delevop or deliver significant stadia (Aviva developed primarily by IRFU) FAI should have major stadia in Cork, Limerick,Sligo and Dundalk
" Build it and they will come"

Build it and they will cone ?

Go to Darlington

There is no demand for large soccer stadiums in Ireland

Fr Tod Umptious

Vunderground wrote: »

I think the last thing this country needs is another few while elephant stadiums.

Speaking as someone who just enjoys sport as sport and used to enjoy this GAA forum a lot - I find this whole thing very depressing.

I do too

I find it depressing that the GAA seem to be so tied to Rule 42, it needs to be amended to be far more flexible while still protecting Gaelic games.

And it's depressing that so many people just look at the money given to the GAA and use it as a stick to beat them with,
When in fact all sports get state money and the GAA put back so much more into the country than they ever take out, but that does not make for good headlines.

dulpit

I live in the northside of Cork, I drive down Cathedral Road every day and have a lovely view of Pairc Ui Chaoimh's South Stand (aka the covered stand, aka the big one). It's always empty.

It's a big massive stadium that has been used a handful of times since opened. What's wrong with using it more? The worst side effect I can see for the GAA is they get more money.

Do people really think if (eg) Cork City played a few matches in Pairc Ui Chaoimh or Ireland did, or Munster Rugby did, or whoever did, that it would be a negative impact on the GAA? If the stadium was fully subscribed with events every week, sure it could be an issue. But it's not. So what harm?

GAA clubs already rent out their AstroTurf pitches for soccer anyway, what makes that different?

Also, on a purely strategic level, it's not been the best summer from a PR point of view for the GAA. The decision with (I think) Wexford not getting a home game, then the Kildare issue, then the Donegal/Dublin thing - this could have been a slam dunk easy win, but they screwed the pooch.

threeball

Vunderground wrote: »

I think the last thing this country needs is another few while elephant stadiums.

Speaking as someone who just enjoys sport as sport and used to enjoy this GAA forum a lot - I find this whole thing very depressing.

Hopefully the off shoot of this is that every county board stops trying to build more massive white elephants like the pairc and start building appropriately sized stadiums that fit within their budget. Navan and Newbridge are the next ones due an upgrade and they shouldn't be built to hold any more than 15k.

Fr Tod Umptious

dulpit wrote: »

I live in the northside of Cork, I drive down Cathedral Road every day and have a lovely view of Pairc Ui Chaoimh's South Stand (aka the covered stand, aka the big one). It's always empty.

It's a big massive stadium that has been used a handful of times since opened. What's wrong with using it more? The worst side effect I can see for the GAA is they get more money.

Do people really think if (eg) Cork City played a few matches in Pairc Ui Chaoimh or Ireland did, or Munster Rugby did, or whoever did, that it would be a negative impact on the GAA? If the stadium was fully subscribed with events every week, sure it could be an issue. But it's not. So what harm?

GAA clubs already rent out their AstroTurf pitches for soccer anyway, what makes that different?

Also, on a purely strategic level, it's not been the best summer from a PR point of view for the GAA. The decision with (I think) Wexford not getting a home game, then the Kildare issue, then the Donegal/Dublin thing - this could have been a slam dunk easy win, but they screwed the pooch.

I don't know about rugby but there is certainly a worry from GAA people about how and what the FAI would do if they had more access to GAA stadiums.

The FAI are a basket case of an organisation and it would not be a huge stretech to thinking that they would allow their own infrastructure to become rundown if they thought they had easy access to better GAA infrastructure.

Another poster posted yesterday about the perception that people in Croke Park had about the behaviour of the IRFU compared to the behaviour of the FAI when CP was open.

Plus the GAA only lossened to rules on access to CP once the Aviva was built, safe in the knowledge that the FAI were committed to that stadium.

The FAI are cuckoo, and also are a
cuckoo

threeball

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I don't know about rugby but there is certainly a worry from GAA people about how and what the FAI would do if they had more access to GAA stadiums.

The FAI are a basket case of an organisation and it would not be a huge stretech to thinking that they would allow their own infrastructure to become rundown if they thought they had easy access to better GAA infrastructure.

Another poster posted yesterday about the perception that people in Croke Park had about the behaviour of the IRFU compared to the behaviour of the FAI when CP was open.

Plus the GAA only lossened to rules on access to CP once the Aviva was built, safe in the knowledge that the FAI were committed to that stadium.

The FAI are cuckoo, and also are a
cuckoo

I agree with this. There's no place for the FAI in gaa stadia. They don't run their shop to standard and try to piggyback on other organisations like the rugby and gaa. They're incapable of anything bar absorbing large amounts of cash.
It's also one way deal where the FAI use the GAA facilities and never the other way round. This charity event is welcome in my eyes but playing foster parents to the delinquent FAI is a no go.

Brendan Bendar

dulpit wrote: »

I live in the northside of Cork, I drive down Cathedral Road every day and have a lovely view of Pairc Ui Chaoimh's South Stand (aka the covered stand, aka the big one). It's always empty.

It's a big massive stadium that has been used a handful of times since opened. What's wrong with using it more? The worst side effect I can see for the GAA is they get more money.

Do people really think if (eg) Cork City played a few matches in Pairc Ui Chaoimh or Ireland did, or Munster Rugby did, or whoever did, that it would be a negative impact on the GAA? If the stadium was fully subscribed with events every week, sure it could be an issue. But it's not. So what harm?

GAA clubs already rent out their AstroTurf pitches for soccer anyway, what makes that different?

Also, on a purely strategic level, it's not been the best summer from a PR point of view for the GAA. The decision with (I think) Wexford not getting a home game, then the Kildare issue, then the Donegal/Dublin thing - this could have been a slam dunk easy win, but they screwed the pooch.

Would Dunnes Stores hand over three or four aisles to Aldi or Lidl in a prime Dunnes location with top class facilities.

Would a manager who took this decision off his own bat last long?

Would you think it would be sound business sense for Dunnes to allow Tesco or Lidl or Aldi to use Dunnes premises to sell Lidl /Aldi/Tesco goods on fairly regular basis?

The current issue with PUC is a bit different, but the principle is the same, you protect your competitive advantage as much as you can.

It’s pure common sense.

dulpit

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Would Dunnes Stores hand over three or four aisles to Aldi or Lidl in a prime Dunnes location with top class facilities.

Would a manager who took this decision off his own bat last long?

Would you think it would be sound business sense for Dunnes to allow Tesco or Lidl or Aldi to use Dunnes premises to sell Lidl /Aldi/Tesco goods on fairly regular basis?

The current issue with PUC is a bit different, but the principle is the same, you protect your competitive advantage as much as you can.

It’s pure common sense.

People go shopping for say bread. Of course they're only going to buy bread in the one shop. But people watch lots of sports. An awful lot of people in Ireland are soccer fans, hurling fans, rugby fans, all at the same time. The implication that a soccer match being played in a GAA stadium will cause the GAA to suffer membership loss strikes me as non-sensical

Vunderground

I'm quite shocked/depressed by some of the naked hatred here coming from both sides.

This Summer myself and the young lad went to our first cricket matches, Ireland V Pakistan and Ireland V India, and we had a great time.

I guess this makes us 'less Irish'?
I'm from Kerry (born and bred) and enjoy all kinds of sport as well as the Gaelic ones.

I guess I need to be reprogrammed!

threeball

dulpit wrote: »

People go shopping for say bread. Of course they're only going to buy bread in the one shop. But people watch lots of sports. An awful lot of people in Ireland are soccer fans, hurling fans, rugby fans, all at the same time. The implication that a soccer match being played in a GAA stadium will cause the GAA to suffer membership loss strikes me as non-sensical

Terrible analogy.

threeball

Vunderground wrote: »

I'm quite shocked/depressed by some of the naked hatred here coming from both sides.

This Summer myself and the young lad went to our first cricket matches, Ireland V Pakistan and Ireland V India, and we had a great time.

I guess this makes us 'less Irish'?
I'm from Kerry (born and bred) and enjoy all kinds of sport as well as the Gaelic ones.

I guess I need to be reprogrammed!

I didn't see any hatred in that post. Pragmatism yes. Hatred, no.

alaimacerc

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

There is no demand for large soccer stadiums in Ireland

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

The FAI are a basket case of an organisation and it would not be a huge stretech to thinking that they would allow their own infrastructure to become rundown if they thought they had easy access to better GAA infrastructure.

So, there should be no large purpose-build soccer stadia, and there should be no access to large Gaa stadia built with substantial public funds. I think you have that covered!

Plus the GAA only lossened to rules on access to CP once the Aviva was built, safe in the knowledge that the FAI were committed to that stadium.

Absolutely exactly the wrong way round. Rule change was 2005. Lansdowne Road was demolished in 2007. Aviva opened in 2010.

What they did was to (at least notionally) sunset the rule, as it as written only applies "during a temporary period".

Vunderground

threeball wrote: »

I didn't see any hatred in that post. Pragmatism yes. Hatred, no.

Sorry, I didn't mean to quote that post. I agree, that's quite reasonable.
I was thinking of the general tenor of this discussion.

alaimacerc

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Would you think it would be sound business sense for Dunnes to allow Tesco or Lidl or Aldi to use Dunnes premises to sell Lidl /Aldi/Tesco goods on fairly regular basis?

It would, if they'd been given €30m of public funds on the strict basis that they would. As otherwise they'd have the arse sued off them.

threeball

alaimacerc wrote: »

It would, if they'd been given €30m of public funds on the strict basis that they would. As otherwise they'd have the arse sued off them.

How much public funding was given to the Aviva or tallaght stadium without a thought given to whether gaa could be played there?

alaimacerc

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

And it's depressing that so many people just look at the money given to the GAA and use it as a stick to beat them with,

No, they're being beaten for not honouring the understanding which was the very basis for being given the money in the first place.

The Gaa are entitled to take a "what we have, we hold" attitude. They're entitled to panhandle for money on the basis that they'll sort out other sports.

Just not to do both at the same time.

Fr Tod Umptious

alaimacerc wrote: »

So, there should be no large purpose-build soccer stadia, and there should be no access to large Gaa stadia built with substantial public funds. I think you have that covered!


Absolutely exactly the wrong way round. Rule change was 2005. Lansdowne Road was demolished in 2007. Aviva opened in 2010.

What they did was to (at least notionally) sunset the rule, as it as written only applies "during a temporary period".

No actually.

In 2005 GAA Annual Congress voted to allow soccer and rugby in Croke Park for the duration of the rebuilding of Lansdowne Rd.

Once the building was complete Congress made another change, this time to allow any furure access to Croke Park be decided by Central Council and not Congress.
This in effect made it easier for other sports to access Croke Park.

Why did they wait until Lansdowne (Aviva) was finished before making access to Croke Park easier ?
Because at that point the FAI were committed to Lansdowne (Aviva), if it had happened before then there was the fear that the FAI would not be committed to Lansdowne (Aviva) and it might never get built/finished, and the GAA would be left accommodating the FAI.

grbear

alaimacerc wrote: »

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Would you think it would be sound business sense for Dunnes to allow Tesco or Lidl or Aldi to use Dunnes premises to sell Lidl /Aldi/Tesco goods on fairly regular basis?

It would, if they'd been given €30m of public funds on the strict basis that they would. As otherwise they'd have the arse sued off them.

Do you know if that money was given to the GAA on that basis? I haven't seen any sort of agreement saying that it was. Plenty of speculation with reagrds to EU rules but nothing resembling a contract between the GAA and the government.

Fr Tod Umptious

grbear wrote: »

Do you know if that money was given to the GAA on that basis? I haven't seen any sort of agreement saying that it was. Plenty of speculation with reagrds to EU rules but nothing resembling a contract between the GAA and the government.

And it's also interesting that this is the first we are really hearing about it.

If PUC had to be open from day one due to funding rules I'm surprised it's only now that people are talking about it.

STB.

The simple matter here is that the top brass in the gaa need a shakeup. They are totally out of touch with the grassroots. They are more recognisable as a concert promoter these days than an organisation that is meant to promote the sport. This and the sky deal that ensured less are watching the game is evidence of that.

Shocking PR. The head of PR should be fired immediately.

Liam did play gaa. There's even a picture of him captaining Ovens to victory at PUC.

https://twitter.com/maherncarpentry/status/1020080384183361536/photo/1

It should not have required public pressure. It takes the good out of it.

At least the decision has been reversed.

threeball

grbear wrote: »

Do you know if that money was given to the GAA on that basis? I haven't seen any sort of agreement saying that it was. Plenty of speculation with reagrds to EU rules but nothing resembling a contract between the GAA and the government.

Unfortunately it's just to be expected that once they see a chink of light at the doorjam that they are clambering over one another to push it open. It's the mentality from the top down and why they have nothing of their own. Living off the charity of the rugby, gaa and government.

threeball

STB. wrote: »

The simple matter here is that the top brass in the gaa need a shakeup. They are totally out of touch with the grassroots. They are more recognisable as a concert promoter these days than an organisation that is meant to promote the sport. This and the sky deal that ensured less are watching the game is evidence of that.

Shocking PR. The head of PR should be fired immediately.

Liam did play gaa. There's even a picture of him captaining Ovens to victory at PUC.

https://twitter.com/maherncarpentry/status/1020080384183361536/photo/1

They should not had to bow to public pressure. It takes the good out of it.

At least the decision has been reversed.

Hasn't been reversed yet. But I agree that Milton should get the road. I've said it as much earlier in this thread.

alaimacerc

threeball wrote: »

How much public funding was given to the Aviva or tallaght stadium without a thought given to whether gaa could be played there?

As far as I know, there's no demand from the Gaa to use either, and neither the IRFU or South Dublin County Counci have a Rule 42 to get us into this sort of "we'd love to, but y'know, our rulebook!" situation. So I don't see how any comparable breach of public funding conditions arises.

Other than whataboutery, of course. That arising is always a given.

STB.

threeball wrote: »

Hasn't been reversed yet. But I agree that Milton should get the road. I've said it as much earlier in this thread.

It has threeball according to John McHale sports editor with the Echo.

https://twitter.com/echosportsed/status/1020725457745039360