The Weird, Wacky and Awesome World of the NFL - General Banter thread V3

jack presley

Baseball draftees usually take much longer to play in the majors compared to the NFL. Apart from the odd exception (Trout, Harper etc.), most will be in the minors, slumming it for at least 3-4 years. Although as he is a first round pick and has all the 'NFL v MLB' drama surrounding him, he might get fast tracked through a bit quicker but he definitely won't be playing year 1.

And I know he has his signing bonus to keep him going, but the salaries in the minors are pittance and even when he does make it to Oakland, he'll be on league minimums for the first few years until he's eligible for arbitration. He won't make the big bucks until his first free agent contract after 6 years when he'll be 28-30 years old.

jack presley

raze_them_all_ wrote: »

The herd with Colin cowherd or whatever his name is

Off topic but whenever I see his name mentioned, I feel obliged to point out that he's a tool.

jack presley

Never heard of this guy until Hard Knocks and I don't think I saw him or thought of him since but sad to hear that he lost his gig.

https://twitter.com/YahooSportsNFL/status/1083389327877566466

I hope he can still make his Maserati payments.

Paully D

https://twitter.com/gerrydulac/status/1083465296726372353?s=21

Foxtrol

What a mess. How do you have someone working for your team for years and only realise this late what his offensive philosophy and staffing ideas are?

https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1083833447842488320

el Fenomeno

Elway is making it up as he goes along anyway.

BonnieSituation

Hardly sees Kubiak as a threat NOW?

Must be Fangio deciding.

Jolly Red Giant

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Hardly sees Kubiak as a threat NOW?

Must be Fangio deciding.

Story is that Fangio met with Kubiak for several hours and disagreed on the approach to the offence - apparently part of that was to do with whether Keenum will be QB next season. It also seems that Kubiak wanted to bring back Rick Dennison to coach the OL - something Fangio wasn't happy with. But Foxtrol is right - it does seem a bit of a shambles. Saying that - I think that Kubiak is under-rated. This does look like Fangio saying - you hired me, now you got to let me do the job the way I want - something you have to welcome from a new HC.

The most disappointing thing for me is that Kubiak won't be staying in the FO - which probably means Matt Russell won't be sacked.

The Broncos are currently talking to Mike Munchak about taking over as OL coach in Denver and 49ers QB coach Rich Scangarello as OC.

Foxtrol

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

Story is that Fangio met with Kubiak for several hours and disagreed on the approach to the offence - apparently part of that was to do with whether Keenum will be QB next season. It also seems that Kubiak wanted to bring back Rick Dennison to coach the OL - something Fangio wasn't happy with. But Foxtrol is right - it does seem a bit of a shambles. Saying that - I think that Kubiak is under-rated. This does look like Fangio saying - you hired me, now you got to let me do the job the way I want - something you have to welcome from a new HC.

The most disappointing thing for me is that Kubiak won't be staying in the FO - which probably means Matt Russell won't be sacked.

The Broncos are currently talking to Mike Munchak about taking over as OL coach in Denver and 49ers QB coach Rich Scangarello as OC.

49ers apparently blocked Scangarello from interviewing. Not really an ideal role and a big risk for a young coach to take, especially one who is already in a good position and in the shop window for other jobs, as they won't have too much to work with on that side of the ball and now if things don't go well the fans will be quickly pining for what Kubiak may have done.

spud06

9 new head coaches hired and Mike McCarthy gets no job. Is it just me or is that shocking. How in gods name can a super bowl winning coach not get a HC job ahead of alot of the ones who have been hired. As a dolphins fan i would have loved to have him with us....i no we have a problem with getting a top HC due to ownership but still. It now says he will sit out 2019 and return in 2020. I wonder if he has been promised something already

Foxtrol

spud06 wrote: »

9 new head coaches hired and Mike McCarthy gets no job. Is it just me or is that shocking. How in gods name can a super bowl winning coach not get a HC job ahead of alot of the ones who have been hired. As a dolphins fan i would have loved to have him with us....i no we have a problem with getting a top HC due to ownership but still. It now says he will sit out 2019 and return in 2020. I wonder if he has been promised something already

Not surprised he hasn't gotten a job. It has to be seen as more a failure rather than a success when a coach has over a decade with a QB in the conversation as one of the best ever and they only win one Super Bowl. The league has also taken a general turn towards younger coaches with innovative offenses and McCarthy is neither.

spud06

Foxtrol wrote: »

Not surprised he hasn't gotten a job. It has to be seen as more a failure rather than a success when a coach has over a decade with a QB in the conversation as one of the best ever and they only win one Super Bowl. The league has also taken a general turn towards younger coaches with innovative offenses and McCarthy is neither.

Fair point

Jolly Red Giant

Foxtrol wrote: »

49ers apparently blocked Scangarello from interviewing. Not really an ideal role and a big risk for a young coach to take, especially one who is already in a good position and in the shop window for other jobs, as they won't have too much to work with on that side of the ball and now if things don't go well the fans will be quickly pining for what Kubiak may have done.

The Broncos offence was ravaged by injuries - Sanders, Butt, Heuerman, Leary, Paradis, Garcia, Veldheer, Taylor (and Lindsey at the end). The OL would immediately be upgraded if Munchak is hired - and there is a good, young WR and RB corps. Now QB is still a major issue (although there are now rumours about Kaepernick - Fangio was in SF) - but to suggest that they 'haven't much to work with' is a little off.

As for Kubiak - the expectation was that Kubiak would adapt his offence to take on board the innovations that Kyle Shanahan has made to that offensive scheme - Kubiak wanting to bring back Dennison demonstrated that he wasn't. Broncos fans know that the Kubiak offence needed modernising and the fact that it appears he wasn't willing to do so means that few fans would be pinning after an offence that was 15 years out of date.

The reason why the Broncos want Scangarello is precisely because he has experience and knowledge of the Kyle Shanahan offence - an offensive scheme which is based Shanahan/Kubiak version of the WCO. Scangarello would be coming into the right situation for him to put his stamp on the offence scheme - he would have the full responsibility for it. Making it a success in Denver would set him up as a HC candidate.

Jolly Red Giant

Foxtrol wrote: »

Not surprised he hasn't gotten a job. It has to be seen as more a failure rather than a success when a coach has over a decade with a QB in the conversation as one of the best ever and they only win one Super Bowl. The league has also taken a general turn towards younger coaches with innovative offenses and McCarthy is neither.

McCarthy and Rodgers couldn't get along - and you are not going to be successful when the HC and QB continually butt heads. The responsibility for that lies with the HC - when you have a QB like Rodgers it is your responsibility to make it work.

The problem with the 'young innovative offences' is that people are trying to find the next McVay. The problem is that he is a one-off - a little like Belichick - and like with BB, it is very hard (if not impossible) to reproduce.

eagle eye

Foxtrol wrote:

Not surprised he hasn't gotten a job. It has to be seen as more a failure rather than a success when a coach has over a decade with a QB in the conversation as one of the best ever and they only win one Super Bowl. The league has also taken a general turn towards younger coaches with innovative offenses and McCarthy is neither.

So how did Gruden get the Raiders job then?
A Superbowl winning coach normally gets many chances.
McCarthy's isn'tt working right now because he doesn't want to. He was 13 seasons in Green Bay and had 3 losing seasons.

Foxtrol

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

The Broncos offence was ravaged by injuries - Sanders, Butt, Heuerman, Leary, Paradis, Garcia, Veldheer, Taylor (and Lindsey at the end). The OL would immediately be upgraded if Munchak is hired - and there is a good, young WR and RB corps. Now QB is still a major issue (although there are now rumours about Kaepernick - Fangio was in SF) - but to suggest that they 'haven't much to work with' is a little off.

Agree to disagree on this. QB is so important for an OC and Elway has shown himself to be completely inept at getting one. As far as skill positions go, outside of Lindsey and Sanders it's hoping guys improve.

As for Kubiak - the expectation was that Kubiak would adapt his offence to take on board the innovations that Kyle Shanahan has made to that offensive scheme - Kubiak wanting to bring back Dennison demonstrated that he wasn't. Broncos fans know that the Kubiak offence needed modernising and the fact that it appears he wasn't willing to do so means that few fans would be pinning after an offence that was 15 years out of date.

From what I've seen from the vocal Broncos fans and media online they're very much stuck in the past. Practically the whole league is looking for innovation and they couldn't wait for a potential return of Mike Shanahan and Kubiak. I have no faith that a completely unheralded OC wouldn't get slated if the offense isn't performing next year despite their limited talent, especially with how Elway's media leaks to distract from his own failings are taken as gospel. Lets see how things go with whoever is brought in and how much time they're given by the fans and media if they aren't performing.

The reason why the Broncos want Scangarello is precisely because he has experience and knowledge of the Kyle Shanahan offence - an offensive scheme which is based Shanahan/Kubiak version of the WCO. Scangarello would be coming into the right situation for him to put his stamp on the offence scheme - he would have the full responsibility for it. Making it a success in Denver would set him up as a HC candidate.

Making a success of it would definitely make him a HC candidate but if it didn't work out and he was likely made a scapegoat then he may never get another chance. Given how Taylor is getting a HC offer as a QB coach at the Rams then if Scangarello waits a year and the 49ers improve he'll likely be fielding more attractive offers.

Foxtrol

eagle eye wrote: »

So how did Gruden get the Raiders job then?
A Superbowl winning coach normally gets many chances.
McCarthy's isn'tt working right now because he doesn't want to. He was 13 seasons in Green Bay and had 3 losing seasons.

10 years as media personality on TV and an owner who seems stuck in his father's shadow.

For a man who doesn't want to work it is interesting that he interviewed with the Jets and wasn't selected and wanted to be interviewed by the Brown's but it was put on hold.

I'm not saying he'll never work again but it isn't a surprise to me that every team isn't knocking down his door to give him a job, especially with the trends with hires.

eagle eye

Foxtrol wrote:

I'm not saying he'll never work again but it isn't a surprise to me that every team isn't knocking down his door to give him a job, especially with the trends with hires.

Arians gone to Tampa Bay, Fangio to the Broncos are not new trends. Adam Gase who failed in Miami gets the Jets job.
I'd have McCarthy over any of them.

It's rumoured that the Jets job was his but he wasn't happy about the makeup of the front office.
He never really seemed interested in the Browns and he turned down the Cards.
I thinks it's a case of him taking some time out unless a position that looks very good to home turns up.

Jolly Red Giant

Foxtrol wrote: »

Agree to disagree on this. QB is so important for an OC and Elway has shown himself to be completely inept at getting one.

Nobody is disputing that QB is a crucial piece for any offence - but QBs are not that easy to find. McDaniels left the Broncos with Kyle Orton and Tim Tebow - Elway went out and got Peyton Manning.

The Broncos drafted Osweiler in the 2nd round in 2012 - before Osweiler the Colts took Luck, Redskins took RGIII and the Dolphins took Tannehill - in the top 8 picks. The Browns also took Weedon in the 1st round. After Osweiler - Wilson, Foles and Cousins were taken - none of whom was selected to be a franchise QB. The Texans thought so much of Osweiler that they gave him a $72million contract with $37million guaranteed.

In 2013 - the only QB drafted that made any impression on the NFL was Mike Glennon.
In 2014 - Bortles was taken at 1.3 and Manziel, Bridgewater and Carr were taken in the top 36 picks - none who have set the NFL on fire.
In 2015 - Winston was the first pick, Mariota was the 2nd pick - nothing after that.
In 2016 - Goff at 1.1 and Wentz at 1.2 - The Broncos took Paxton Lynch at 1.21 (puke). The only other QB of consequence taken was Dak Prescott - and the Cowboys tried to trade up ahead of the Broncos to take Paxton Lynch.
In 2017 - Tubrisky at 1.2, Mahomes at 1.8, Watson at 1.12. The Broncos drafted Chad Kelly with the last pick - and he was showing promise until he lost his head.
In 2018 - this was the big year with 4 top tier prospects - the Broncos attempted to trade up with the Giants to 1.2 to take Darnold. They couldn't get to 1.1 because the Browns wanted Mayfield - but 1.2 was a possibility. Ultimately the Giants backed out because they thought the Browns would take Barkley at 1.4 and they would lose out. The Broncos had a deal in place with the Bills to trade down - and probably move again to get Rosen - but felt they couldn't pass up on taking Bradley Chubb (who has the potential to be a generational talent). The people who killed last years draft were the Colts who traded out of 1.3 and still got their top target in Nelson, and got Smith in the second round with the Jets pick.

Unfortunately QBs don't go on trees - and the Broncos, through a combination of not picking high enough and whiffing on Lynch - have failed. But they are not the only team to have done so.

Foxtrol wrote: »

As far as skill positions go, outside of Lindsey and Sanders it's hoping guys improve.

Poor assessment of the Broncos skills players - Sutton, Hamilton and Tim Patrick are all showing big upsides - there is actually a possibility that Sanders will be cut because of the potential the Broncos have at WR. Freeman is a bowling ball at RB and himself and Lindsay are going to be a fantastic 1-2 punch when the Broncos get an OC who is able to utilise them properly. The TEs have suffered injuries - but Heuerman, Butt and LaCosse all have shown potential.

Foxtrol wrote: »

From what I've seen from the vocal Broncos fans and media online they're very much stuck in the past. Practically the whole league is looking for innovation and they couldn't wait for a potential return of Mike Shanahan and Kubiak. I have no faith that a completely unheralded OC wouldn't get slated if the offense isn't performing next year despite their limited talent, especially with how Elway's media leaks to distract from his own failings are taken as gospel. Lets see how things go with whoever is brought in and how much time they're given by the fans and media if they aren't performing.

You are misunderstanding the developments that have taken place - particularly the return of Mike Shanahan. The return of Shanahan last year had a lot of potential - to start with Shanahan had deal in place to bring Cousins to Denver. More importantly - Mike Shanahan talks to Kyle on a consistent basis. Kyle Shanahan uses his dad as a sounding board for what he is doing in SF. On top of that Mike Shanahan and Peyton Manning meet on at least a weekly basis (Manning bought his mansion in Denver from Shanahan) - they analyse the previous weekend games and discuss what teams are doing on offence and defence. Mike Shanahan would have been using the modernised version of the WCO that is used by Kyle in SF if he had taken over in Denver.

The problem with Kubiak this week was the fact that he told Fangio he wanted to run his WCO rather than the type of offence Shanahan is using. Fangio is a top notch DC and knows that the Kubiak offence is outdated and can be stopped. Kubiak wouldn't budge and Fangio made the right decision to go to Elway and tell him to dump Kubiak (and I say this as someone who believes Kubiak is under-rated).

Broncos fans who wanted Kubiak - including me - wanted him on the basis that he was going to adopt Shananan's offence. The fact that he was refusing to do so means he had to go. The Broncos fans have seen the futility of running an outdated offence - we had a year of Bill Musgrave - there is little sympathy for Kubiak at this point.

As for Elway - he has made a ton of mistakes - but he has still made far more good decisions than bad ones. Six teams have won the SB since Elway took over as GM - the Broncos are one of them.

Foxtrol wrote: »

Making a success of it would definitely make him a HC candidate but if it didn't work out and he was likely made a scapegoat then he may never get another chance. Given how Taylor is getting a HC offer as a QB coach at the Rams then if Scangarello waits a year and the 49ers improve he'll likely be fielding more attractive offers.

Again - I would dispute you assessment of the Broncos skills players - they are a very young, talented group with a lot of potential - Sutton. Hamilton, Lindsay and Freeman are all rookies - Patrick and Cracraft are 2nd yr players (and Cracraft was injured all last year) - at TE Heuerman looked like fulfilling his potential until injured - and at RB both Freemand and Lindsay are rookies. The Broncos 2018 draft was very good - and there is a lot of potential on offence.

At the end of the season the Broncos had 13 rookies on the roster - 6 more were 2nd year players and five 3rd year players - almost half the roster are less than 3 years in the NFL. Take as a contrast - for example - the Patriots - 4 rookies - 5 second year and 6 third year.

To suggest that Scangarello will be the scapegoat for an under-performing offence (if it happens) next year is nonsense - everyone knows that the Broncos offence will have to be rebuilt, new scheme, young players, a new HC and Keenum as the current QB. People aren't stupid.

As for having better offers if he stays with the 49ers - evidence? If the 49ers offence improves then Kyle Shanahan will get the credit - if the Broncos offence improves (and it will) then all the credit will go to Scangarello (and by the way - the Broncos want him but there is no guarantee that he goes to the Broncos)

Many teams are now trying to find the next McVay - and replicate what he is doing. It is a mistaken approach - just as trying to replicate the Patriot way is a mistake. The best approach to produce an 'innovative offence' is through Shanahan - McVay is a product of the Mike Shanahan / Kyle Shanahan approach to offence. As for Zac Taylor becoming HC of the Bengals - that says more about the basket-case that is the Bengals than anything else.

Oat23

The best kick from yesterday's Cody Parkey FG challenge in Chicago.


https://twitter.com/RyanSmithWriter/status/1084172017878949888

And the second best


https://twitter.com/The_Heckler/status/1084194604520488965

eagle eye

Jolly Red Giant wrote:

In 2014 - Bortles was taken at 1.3 and Manziel, Bridgewater and Carr were taken in the top 36 picks - none who have set the NFL on fire.

Derek Carr is a very good QB.

Foxtrol

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

Poor assessment of the Broncos skills players - Sutton, Hamilton and Tim Patrick are all showing big upsides - there is actually a possibility that Sanders will be cut because of the potential the Broncos have at WR. Freeman is a bowling ball at RB and himself and Lindsay are going to be a fantastic 1-2 punch when the Broncos get an OC who is able to utilise them properly. The TEs have suffered injuries - but Heuerman, Butt and LaCosse all have shown potential.

I'm not sure how you can say my assessment of the Broncos offense is poor when your post basically agrees with me, that most of how you feel is based on potential and upside, like how I described it as 'hoping guys improve'. You may see it as an attractive situation but right now where I would put it as a big risk, which isn't worth taking because of the other factors. We'll see how things play out.

At the end of the season the Broncos had 13 rookies on the roster - 6 more were 2nd year players and five 3rd year players - almost half the roster are less than 3 years in the NFL. Take as a contrast - for example - the Patriots - 4 rookies - 5 second year and 6 third year.

Roster comparison to the Patriots is pointless. You can't benchmark a poorly performing team with coaching turnover to a winning one that has the same coach for millennia. There'll always be higher turnover and more young players.

To suggest that Scangarello will be the scapegoat for an under-performing offence (if it happens) next year is nonsense - everyone knows that the Broncos offence will have to be rebuilt, new scheme, young players, a new HC and Keenum as the current QB. People aren't stupid.

I think you'll find people are indeed quite stupid. If that list of offensive players don't match the hype then where are the fingers going to point? Elway is the king of scapegoating others and I don't see this being different. Again, we'll see what happens if the offense isn't doing well with whoever comes in.

As for having better offers if he stays with the 49ers - evidence? If the 49ers offence improves then Kyle Shanahan will get the credit - if the Broncos offence improves (and it will) then all the credit will go to Scangarello (and by the way - the Broncos want him but there is no guarantee that he goes to the Broncos)

Many teams are now trying to find the next McVay - and replicate what he is doing. It is a mistaken approach - just as trying to replicate the Patriot way is a mistake. The best approach to produce an 'innovative offence' is through Shanahan - McVay is a product of the Mike Shanahan / Kyle Shanahan approach to offence. As for Zac Taylor becoming HC of the Bengals - that says more about the basket-case that is the Bengals than anything else.

If Shanahan is and will get all the credit for how the 49ers offense is doing then why are all his offensive assistants being asked for OC interviews? Scangarello (and the other 49ers coaches) are coaching on a team that has a losing record both years since they arrived, do you really think if the 49ers do better next year they get less offers?

I think what teams are trying to buy into with the guys who worked under Reid/McVay/Shanahan is very different to what they try to get from most the Patriots assistants. The latter is more based on culture while the former is the offensive scheme/innovation.

Pretty much all of this can't be judged until next year so we'll just have to wait and see.

Foxtrol

eagle eye wrote: »

Arians gone to Tampa Bay, Fangio to the Broncos are not new trends. Adam Gase who failed in Miami gets the Jets job.
I'd have McCarthy over any of them.

A trend doesn't mean 100% of teams are doing the same thing.

eagle eye

Foxtrol wrote:

A trend doesn't mean 100% of teams are doing the same thing.

Well I named three out of how many vacancies?
A trend needs to have more than Sean McVay and a couple of his buddies.

Foxtrol

eagle eye wrote: »

Well I named three out of how many vacancies?
A trend needs to have more than Sean McVay and a couple of his buddies.

Ah come on, you're just trying to be difficult now.

There is a clear trend towards younger more offensive minded coaches over the last two or three years than in the past. This year only Fangio was a DC (with one more likely) and they're all 40 or younger aside from Arians, Fangio, and Kitchens (who is an old man at 44).

There were always outliers who were young offensive minded in years gone by but it has now become the norm.

Jolly Red Giant

Foxtrol wrote: »

I'm not sure how you can say my assessment of the Broncos offense is poor when your post basically agrees with me, that most of how you feel is based on potential and upside, like how I described it as 'hoping guys improve'. You may see it as an attractive situation but right now where I would put it as a big risk, which isn't worth taking because of the other factors. We'll see how things play out.

No Foxtrol - I am not 'hoping guys improve' - Sutton, Hamilton, Patrick, Lindsay and Freeman have already proven they can play in the NFL - the potential is only how good they can be - and all five can be very good. The same can be said for Heuerman and Butt if they can stay healthy. Paradis is one of the better C in the league - Bolles and McGovern have improved significantly and Wilkinson is showing promise (this is the only player that people are 'hoping' improves).

Foxtrol wrote: »

Roster comparison to the Patriots is pointless. You can't benchmark a poorly performing team with coaching turnover to a winning one that has the same coach for millennia. There'll always be higher turnover and more young players.

That is a valid point - but it is not always the case. The Rams, Eagles, Bears and Chiefs have among the youngest rosters in the NFL - the Raiders have the oldest.

Foxtrol wrote: »

I think you'll find people are indeed quite stupid. If that list of offensive players don't match the hype then where are the fingers going to point? Elway is the king of scapegoating others and I don't see this being different. Again, we'll see what happens if the offense isn't doing well with whoever comes in.

There is no hype - Broncos fans know what talent is on the offence - and they know that QB has to be sorted before there is any real progress. That is on Elway - not whichever OC is brought in.

Foxtrol wrote: »

If Shanahan is and will get all the credit for how the 49ers offense is doing then why are all his offensive assistants being asked for OC interviews? Scangarello (and the other 49ers coaches) are coaching on a team that has a losing record both years since they arrived, do you really think if the 49ers do better next year they get less offers?

The NFL is a copycat league - that is why the Bengals are going to hire Taylor and the Dolphins are going with Flores (hell - it is even why the Cards made the daft decisions they made).

The difference for Scangarello is that he will have proven he can implement the offence if he succeeds in Denver - if he stays in SF then he will get job offers - but he will still be an unproven commodity.

Foxtrol wrote: »

I think what teams are trying to buy into with the guys who worked under Reid/McVay/Shanahan is very different to what they try to get from most the Patriots assistants. The latter is more based on culture while the former is the offensive scheme/innovation.

As I said - it is a copycat league. Teams have been trying to copy the Patriot Way for years - and have failed. If people try and reproduce McVay (as the Bengals are trying to do) it will likely fall flat.

Reproducing the Shanahan version of the WCO should see some teams making progress - until defences adjust.

Foxtrol wrote: »

Pretty much all of this can't be judged until next year so we'll just have to wait and see.

Next season is going to be interesting - the 2019 draft is very deep on the defensive side of the ball and this will have an impact on the NFL going forward.

The Broncos are one of the teams caught between a rock and a hard place - not bad enough to potentially get a franchise QB in 2020 but not good enough at QB to get into contention.

Foxtrol

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

No Foxtrol - I am not 'hoping guys improve' - Sutton, Hamilton, Patrick, Lindsay and Freeman have already proven they can play in the NFL - the potential is only how good they can be - and all five can be very good. The same can be said for Heuerman and Butt if they can stay healthy. Paradis is one of the better C in the league - Bolles and McGovern have improved significantly and Wilkinson is showing promise (this is the only player that people are 'hoping' improves).

Most teams are full of guys who can play in the NFL, it is whether they can take the next step, along with their scheme gets the most out of them. I'm just not sold but we'll see.

That is a valid point - but it is not always the case. The Rams, Eagles, Bears and Chiefs have among the youngest rosters in the NFL - the Raiders have the oldest.

Rams and Bears were poor for years which explains their age profile. There are always exception like the others (with Gruden going out to raid old folks homes).

The Broncos are one of the teams caught between a rock and a hard place - not bad enough to potentially get a franchise QB in 2020 but not good enough at QB to get into contention.

I know Chubb is great but they should have either been aggressive and moved up last year or taken Rosen, despite his issues. You're rarely drafting a QB and you aren't reaching or overpaying and you can't guarantee starting from that high position again for years.

jack presley

Kyler Murray looking for $15m to stay with the Oakland A’s and not declare for the NFL Draft. It would have to be a major league contract and not the minor one draft picks usually get which means he’ll have to be added to Oakland’s 40 man roster without having ever seen a pitch. Also means he’ll be out of options much earlier and they’d almost certainly lose him in free agency. A lot of money for a player that has never played a game and you could only get half the years with him that you’d normally get.

Jolly Red Giant

jack presley wrote: »

Kyler Murray looking for $15m to stay with the Oakland A’s and not declare for the NFL Draft. It would have to be a major league contract and not the minor one draft picks usually get which means he’ll have to be added to Oakland’s 40 man roster without having ever seen a pitch. Also means he’ll be out of options much earlier and they’d almost certainly lose him in free agency. A lot of money for a player that has never played a game and you could only get half the years with him that you’d normally get.

It is also a lot of money because the Oakland A's are one of the poorest teams in MLB.

jack presley

Yeah the money would be a big issue for the A’s but there’s also the issue of him taking a roster spot. Most teams have to juggle roster spots and make decisions on who to keep and who to release (just like the NFL I suppose) so having a player who most likely won’t see action until 2020 at the earliest, taking up a spot is a tough thing to have to do.