Who be this lot???

Grizzly 45

Irish deer comission. Never heard of them.Anyone?

http://irishdeercommission.ie/

gunny123

Nothing about them on Solocheck.ie yet.

Uinseann_16

My guess more chancers:(, in their about us section
-"Provide access to high quality education and training to ensure that deer can be effectively managed"
Who needs antis when you've friends like we do in the shooting community:p
Ya my guess another group lobbying for themselves and not the rest of us:rolleyes: something tells me theyll be providing something course wise......

solarwinds

Linked in will shed further light on this as will twitter.

solarwinds

I for one will not be having anything to do with this lot. Mandatory courses, yet another entity now saying it should be a requirement for all. FFS will it ever end.

Grizzly 45

2016 being their last bit of news...Missed all the fun last year then?..Not a very with it group to repersent us then.

ayagerard

Uinseann_16 wrote: »

My guess more chancers:(, in their about us section
-"Provide access to high quality education and training to ensure that deer can be effectively managed"
Who needs antis when you've friends like we do in the shooting community:p
Ya my guess another group lobbying for themselves and not the rest of us:rolleyes: something tells me theyll be providing something course wise......

another leading authority on deer in ireland these guys are even experts on the giant irish deer must be around with a while to have studied them i'm still waiting for some one of these experts to suggest rechristening the muntjac leprejac ,at that point i will pee in my pants i think is the prase , i heard of the land commision that was a state agency ,but not heard of a deer commision ,

name over the door and a phone no what more do you need who is going to question your qualifications ,this is ireland you know , the more of these that show their intent,???? the better 2 or 3 more of these self confessed experts now is what we need and let them fight away over the crumbs that will sort them out once and for all when the money will get small all of these experts will crawl back under what ever rock they came out from under but just maybe the rock might not cover them then ,

solarwinds

According to an article he was interviewed for in the Times re. compulsary certification his outfit at the time and the other organisations were very dissapointed (annoyed she did not do what she was told) the minister decided not to implement their suggestions.
But if that wasnt annoying enough what really bothered me was that each of these outfits all claimed that ALL of their hunter members were in favour of mandatory certification jesus wept are these cults or something with all their members brainwashed or what.
Who volunteers to have their wallets drained.
If hunters are that unsure of their abilities that they feel the need to run out and do every course going at what will only be ever increasing costs then they need to hang up their guns. If i was unsure of any aspect my sport i would ask someone with years of experience be it stalking or rough shooting there is no substitute for experience. Sure as hell my first thought would not be where can i go and sit down for 2 days learning theory and get a fancy bit of paper worth nothing giving me a false sense of my own ability.
Yes at some point some kind of course will happen. But its structure, content, implementation and certification will have to be laid down by the powers that be. And until that happens nothing else is worth a damn.

wirehairmax

Website gone already? What did it say anyway?

Grizzly 45

It seems to have been a person or persons unknown involved with WADI who took the website without executive permission and renamed it Wild deer Ireland,and now this Wild deer commission yoke. Which has now disappeared within 16 hours off the net after it was spotted on FB. Amazed that their bank details weren't in Lagos, Nigeria as well for good measure.

solarwinds

An individuals linkedin page associated with the deer commission is still up though, wonder why the website has gone.

Hunter456

More professional deer stalkers that know every thing about deer aren't they a great bunch of lads.

Grizzly 45

Irish deer commission launching Aug 8th.Anyone know anything about this?Some pieces of mind should be expressed at this meet perhaps?

gunny123

They seen a band wagon passing and decided to hop aboard. No way i could make that meeting. Somehow i feel the hand of voldemort about this though.

Fallow01

Am I missing something here, but a PRIVATE invitation to a PRIVATE event is been shared here, why? :rolleyes: Is it anyone's business or should it be posted?

A search of the name and based on the invitation wording, this organisation has not been launched nor made any public statements for us to judge them on....yet

Looking at some of the names listed as speakers/advisors and their approach, would tell me they are not the Wild Poachers Assoc but well respected individuals within their own field

Surely we should welcome what appears to be a voluntary group giving up their time for what they care about (and many here)

Just my 2 c worth on this

Vegeta

Regulatory Capture is why we care. If this group begin lobbying for their own benefit and to the detriment of the average hunter, then we should be very vigilant. From that letter it looks like the group is already making relationships with the Gardai. Just look to the SC for a live example of how small groups can damage the sport for the majority.

Grizzly 45

[

QUOTE=Fallow01;107672908]Am I missing something here, but a PRIVATE invitation to a PRIVATE event is been shared here, why? :rolleyes: Is it anyone's business or should it be posted?

Seeing that it was on a FB open page for anyone to view, and also, that this invitation was sent from a list apparently of people who had not consented to their name being used...

A search of the name and based on the invitation wording, this organisation has not been launched nor made any public statements for us to judge them on....yet

Google their website, they have apparently been in existence since 2017,and are very shy about who they are in their "about us" and "contact us" section. http://irishdeercommission.ie/about/ Where are these prospectus they claim on www.idmf.ie IE the Irish deer management forum!
You know the crowd who want us doing compulsory courses and want us to pay for ridiculous projects like tagging and app developments to geo-locate where we shot deer,as well as their salaries and expenses? You know the crowd who were asking a bunch of questions off Irish deer hunters last year supported by the NPWS license??Which 75% of us were dumb enough to go and fill out and make a noose for our own necks by doing so?

From the IDMF website

IDMF Recommendation 2
Mandatory Certification of Hunters

1. “That the IDMF recommend to the Minister for Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht and the Minister for Agriculture, Food & the Marine that Certification of Competency from an accredited source in knowledge of wild deer species, disease recognition, management, culling and safe methods of control, together with marksmanship and safe usage and storage of firearms, be a mandatory requirement before the grant of a licence to hunt wild deer; and that mandatory certification be introduced on a phased basis over a five year period commencing on the 1st day of January 2018 for existing holders of deer hunting licences, and with immediate effect from the same date for all new applicants for deer hunting licences”.

IDMF Recommendation 3
National Database of Deer Hunting Returns

A new database, which is in the current NPWS charter, is required. This would comply with current EU legislation and be more effective and efficient for license holders in addition to assisting the administration of the system by NPWS staff.
The greatest obstacles to upgrading are:

• Resources — a budget is required to develop and implement the new system
• Staff shortages — the Wildlife Licensing Unit have lost a number of staff in recent years who have not been replaced
An efficient online system would significantly reduce time and costs spent on paperwork and internal communications with regard to individual licences and returns. It would also lead to a more reliable dataset with respect to numbers of deer shot, which is critical data in relation to the management of the national herd.

The following recommendations with regard to a modern, online system would be:

• A unique ID number for all license holders on a swipe card with photo ID which can be used to renew the license online.
• A tagging system similar to that used for livestock – Tags can be issued with the ID and carcass numbers
• The onus would be on the license holder to submit accurate returns as failure to do so
• should result in fines and/or the license being revoked.
• Legislation, i.e. the Wildlife Acts and Data Protection requirements need to be addressed
• before an online system is developed and implemented.
• Environmental data such as the location where the deer was shot, species and sex, will give
• considerable added value to the information supplied.
• A license fee should be considered to defray costs associated with the administration of
• licenses

Looking at some of the names listed as speakers/advisors and their approach would tell me they are not the Wild Poachers Assoc but well-respected individuals within their own field

Well, if you want to listen to a lecture by Dr Carden who accused hunters of introducing Muntjac deer into Ireland to have something to shoot out of season, back in 2009 or thereabouts. She has never been properly challenged on this or asked to provide proof of this assertation.Wonder will she be challenged here?:rolleyes:

Surely we should welcome what appears to be a voluntary group giving up their time for what they care about (and many here)

All stakeholders?Why a private invitation then?Why not advertise it here on boards,or even on their FB page? I'd gladly attend as an individual representing the NON conscripted HCAP shooters out there. Yeah I think anyone can see wHY this is a private function.:rolleyes:

solarwinds

An invite only launch to a select few who claim to represent hunters and want to better the sport, behind closed doors and you think this is ok.
I have land, i shoot am i not a stakeholder. Who is representing me there.
This volountary organisation are only doing this for the good of their own pockets and definately not for you, me or the deer.
An invite by their National Executive, who are they, how were they elected was there any consultation with me as a land owner / hunter no there was not.
So no they do not represent me or what i do.
Any organisation who sets up in secret, behind closed doors and only invite the chosen few to their official launch yet claim to represent a sport who know nothing about them, then yes they do have questions to answer and to us the people they claim to speak for.
Now if you are happy for a body to set up in this manner and represent you then crack on, but i would first like to know what their policies are, what they want to do to improve hunting in ireland and seen as they will have the ear of the AGS in a private room what that discussion will involve.
Now seen as this is Ireland I will not be expecting any answers not logical ones anyway.

Fallow01

I think my point is being missed....this document is a private document not a published document....the event is a private event....it was suggested here people should turn up uninvited, as a private event at best they would be asked to leave or trespassing, making them liable to arrest...I don't believe this is responsible or legal advice from this group...will we be sharing peoples credit card bills next

On making inquiries, I understand this private document was photographed last night without the knowledge or permission of the owner to share or publish their personal business.....and they are said to be livid

Because it was posted on a private page (without the owners permission) doesn't make it right to post here.

Lobbying Act 2015 etc is only relevant to an organisation that is in existence and considering they are having a forthcoming launch event, not registered on the CRO or anywhere else or published or lobbied...I would safely say they do not exist yet The 2017 reference I would say is a website set up output/ default considering the above.

How did Muntjac end up in Ireland!? Nobody knows but they didn't swim or get a Ryanair flight

Dr Carden, in my book (and many others) is the most respected deer academic in Ireland....and no you don't have to agree with every paper she issued or what she says.

There is a lot of negative assumptions and talk been made here...regarding lobbying and how they will be run....and their not even in existence yet

<MOD SNIP>

Rather than knocking something that is potentially good, we should be talking about the foxes minding the chickens

Walter Mittys Brother

So this is a splinter group from an existing organisation where they were removed from their positions of "power" at an AGM & they refuse accept it?

Fallow01

Don't know but looking at the names in the Irish Deer Commission line up, I would say they are on a different level (potentially), but the more organisations the better in my book.....

From being at previous AGM people put their name forward or not for voting for voluntary roles, rather than have something withdrawn

Grizzly 45

Fallow01 wrote: »

I think my point is being missed....this document is a private document not a published document....the event is a private event....it was suggested here people should turn up uninvited, as a private event at best they would be asked to leave or trespassing, making them liable to arrest...I don't believe this is responsible or legal advice from this group...will we be sharing peoples credit card bills next

So thats already saying a LOT."Ve will not tolerate dissent or questions being asked?"Hmm odd for a new organisation that would want to attract membership.Hold a private function and threaten people who it directly concerns with arrest if they try to enter?
Also,go and read [1] my disclaimer on every post of mine and [2] no one said anything about being violent or disruptive.

On making inquiries, I understand this private document was photographed last night without the knowledge or permission of the owner to share or publish their personal business.....and they are said to be livid

Would they care to comment on the fact that apparently, this list of invitees was a non-consensual list taken from an organisation without the invitees or organisations permission to use it?

Because it was posted on a private page (without the owners' permission) doesn't make it right to post here.

Whats the big secret? This is going to be a presumably public and "democratic" operation??Did they think this invitation was not going to eventually show up on social media by concerned parties outside this golden circle??
You put out a document inviting a select few that concerns a majority of people involved in deer stalking future in Ireland and then act like its all hush hush and are then livid about it being found out??Sounds like there is something to hide already.

This is the kind of attitude that would make anyone sane wary of an organisation like this!Private meetings,and functions and sleeping with the enemy so to speak in the form of a body who wants money out of us for their projects and what these organisations take from this? They sure arent setting up as a charitable function either to no doubt run courses when it becomes compulsory? This was the way things were run in shooting organisations.No one wants anymore behind closed door meetings discussing our collective futures,by an unelected select few with the enemy.
Sorry, that kwould put me right off straight away.

How did Muntjac end up in Ireland!? Nobody knows but they didn't swim or get a Ryanair flight

Dr Carden, in my book (and many others) is the most respected deer academic in Ireland....and no you don't have to agree with every paper she issued or what she says.

Introducing a non-native species is a criminal act under the invasive species act.So Dr Carden made a public statement of mass brushing a group of people with being complicit in a crime! A pretty serious allegation of which she has never
[1] provided any tangible evidence or proof thereof that has been made public or in a court of law
[2] Has there ever been an investigation by AGS into these allegations?If so why not,or what was the outcome? For someone to make those kinds of allegations without a shred of provable evidence makes them a less than a credible,despite their academic qualifications and other papers they might have written. Cardinal rule of research.You have to back up your assertations with proof,not hide behind your qualifications. If you want to listen to some academic berating you as complicit in a criminal act....Go right ahead.

3] At the time of this allegation, Donedeal.ie and buy&sell had advertised muntjac deer for sale as exotic pets too...Did the good doctor consider that possibly these might have been exotic escaped pets?
4] Muntjac are prolific breeders,since then the whole 32 counties should be showing a dramatic increase in their cull returns?

There is a lot of negative assumptions and talk been made here...regarding lobbying and how they will be run....and their not even in existence yet

Let's just say we are bitten a few times and very shy,and from Missouri into the bargain.

Rather than knocking something that is potentially good, we should be talking about the foxes minding the chickens [

Indeed,and lets say from previous experiences, things that potentially should be good are usually rotten and costly for us all in the long run around here.

solarwinds

Again i ask how can you think a group setting up behind closed doors, without any public notice especially to the people they hope to be screwing money from is a good thing.
"They were livid" that says it all really, as you seem to be in the know about these peoples reactions to the ordinary man finding out maybe you could find out a bit more about their intentions.

Cass

Fallow01 wrote: »

...I don't believe this is responsible or legal advice from this group..

There is no legal advise given on this or any other forum. It's prohibited.

Any and all posts are the opinions of the posters, nothing more.

On making inquiries, I understand this private document was photographed last night without the knowledge or permission of the owner to share or publish their personal business.....and they are said to be livid

There are protocols in place if they want to make a complaint.

Because it was posted on a private page (without the owners permission) doesn't make it right to post here.

If it was posted in the public domain, at all, then it's fair game. You cannot post, whether in private or not, on a public forum (here, Facebook, Twitter) and then claim "private" when its posted elsewhere.

Lobbying Act 2015 etc is only relevant to an organisation that is in existence and considering they are having a forthcoming launch event, not registered on the CRO or anywhere else or published or lobbied...I would safely say they do not exist yet The 2017 reference I would say is a website set up output/ default considering the above.

And the Date Protection Act may be in play because if this organisation got the addresses of those it posted to from any other source bar the actual person it was addressed to then there is a breach of the data protection act on both the part of the new organisation and organisation that furnished the new one with the information.

There is a lot of negative assumptions and talk been made here...regarding lobbying and how they will be run....and their not even in existence yet

When the so called coalition started up the same "it'll be great" lines were trotted out, so too when the deer alliance tried to privatize deer stalking.

<MOD SNIP>

And thats possible defamation right there.

Rather than knocking something that is potentially good, we should be talking about the foxes minding the chickens

This is the line i've hard umpteen times from those involved in either setting up or running a new group.

Cass

You have made serious accusations, possibly slanderous statements, and ignored actual data protection issues.

As such i'm shutting this thread pending mod review. It WILL be re-opened once the offending comments have been examined and dealt with as this is too important a topic to simply be closed for debate.

Cass

The review is still under way, but i'm opening this thread for the moment as its of concern to the community.

wirehairmax

Website updated
http://irishdeercommission.ie/about/

Fallow01

Irish Deer Commission are now open for membership applications, the first 50 applications accepted are entered into a draw for a guided Sika stalk in Co Kerry

https://www.facebook.com/125121684177148/photos/a.611442008878444.1073741829.125121684177148/1918816678140964/?type=3&theater

Uinseann_16

Tbh lads threads like these and the firearms community's infighting in general is quite off putting for young shooters like myself ive had a few young lads in and around my age that know i shoot asking me about these mandatory courses lamping bans etc...... thinking their gospel. A house divided against itself, cannot stand and parts of firearm community here seems hell bent on burning the f****ng house to the ground we're our own worst enemy
My point about young shooters is the average firearms owner was what in their 50s? the last time gardai gave info. For my age group to me it seems very few have an actual interest in shooting even those who may have a father,uncle etc who does shoot and things like these mandatory courses .Groups attempting to bring in more restrictive often self serving legislation just makes it more and more difficult to introduce new shooters.
-Ill never licence a CF pistol im too young to have gotten one pre 08
-Ill never shoot a practical or "dynamic" or whatever they called it competition here too young to have been around when it was.
But that makes me not want to have to make some lad in future have to face more restrictions than i do already today and if groups are continually allowed to make this sport more restrictive or "selective" it will die out.
Just my 2 cents:pac:

Cass

Uinseann_16 wrote: »

Tbh lads threads like these and the firearms community's infighting in general is quite off putting for young shooters like myself

I understand where you're coming from and agree with you, to a point.

Without saying "its their fault, not us" i have to point out that the thread is not the issue. Its the topic of it. The thread and the forum provide a place for people to learn about what is going on in THEIR sport and at times this forum has been the sole place to find out about secret proposals, agenda and actions of some groups that were NOT public knowledge and through our combined efforts we managed to stop some of these proposed actions. The mandatory deer training course being one of them.

So, for me, i'd like to know what is happening rather than wake up some morning to find my sport is now fee based and controlled by one vested interest group whose sole function is profit over the continuity and development of the sport.

ive had a few young lads in and around my age that know i shoot asking me about these mandatory courses lamping bans etc...... thinking their gospel.

Continuing on form my point above, this thread was started when the proposed privatisation of deer hunting was proposed and almost a done deal. Through letter writing and informing people on the forum we managed to get the Minister to stop it.

A house divided against itself, cannot stand and parts of firearm community here seems hell bent on burning the f****ng house to the ground we're our own worst enemy

Absolutely.

Its sad, sickening and beyond understanding why they do it, but it has been going on for decades and more so in the last ten years. We have had at least 6 attempts to privatise and control sections of the sport over the last 9 to 10 years and that does not count the attempts by the same groups to actually destroy certain parts of the sport by "offering" to have them banned in order to save an aspect of shooting THEY partake in.

IOW throwing one sport under the bus for the sake of their own.

-Ill never licence a CF pistol im too young to have gotten one pre 08

It's all about how its done too. The groups we talk about above are the same ones that decided to take a sledgehammer to a nut.

Take the pistols for example. Court case after court case taken, and in some cases they were warranted, but the groups involved took the wrong approach and combined with ignorance on the, then, Minister's behalf we ended up with a ban.

Thing is its not legislative, as such. Its done under an SI and the Minister, current, can remove aspects of that SI or in whole and C/F pistols can be available in the morning. All we need is the right people arguing our case and not pissing off the DoJ/AGS that control it.

-Ill never shoot a practical or "dynamic" or whatever they called it competition here too young to have been around when it was.

Nor will anyone else, myself included, because those involved refused to listen to advice and thought they knew better.

But that makes me not want to have to make some lad in future have to face more restrictions than i do already today and if groups are continually allowed to make this sport more restrictive or "selective" it will die out.
Just my 2 cents:pac:

Exactly.

Everything i've said above shows what has happened in the past 10 years because of the actions of self serving PRIVATE groups.

Now i don't know much about this new Irish Deer Commission, and i'll reserve judgement on them and their actions until i know more. As they, according to the posts above, have been secretive and selective in their information and their invitations my only other source of info is here.

If they improve shooting, it's public image and don't try to privatize or commercialize shooting then my opinion is have at it. However if they try anything else i will, based on their actions, oppose them. Unfortunately for them they have decided to create this new group in a time when new groups are popping up every week and trying to corner some aspect of shooting so naturally there is suspicions about their motives.


It's a cynical attitude, but one developed from years of abuse by others.

Cass

Relevant to this thread.