Loaded sub machine gun found on street.

Claw Hammer

Rylee Echoing Flu wrote: »

Why, because you've been vocal and called them thick's here?.

You don't know if that member was a superb guard and team member before this incident.

You've no idea what acts of bravery, commitment and service they've given to the country before yesterday.

And although I find it difficult to swallow the story about the boot opening and a weapons bag falling out, it may have happened just like that (although I doubt it too).

One things for sure, I bet it never happens again and the member will never live it down.

A soldier was recently before the courts trying to have his discharge for pointing a weapon at a comrade overturned. The courts held his discharge was justified and I have yet to see anyone comment otherwise. What happened in this incident was far worse.

jimgoose

Claw Hammer wrote: »

A soldier was recently before the courts trying to have his discharge for pointing a weapon at a comrade overturned. The courts held his discharge was justified and I have yet to see anyone comment otherwise. What happened in this incident was far worse.

The H&K MP7 is a particularly nippy little bit of kit. There was some couple of hundred 4.6×30mm rounds in the bag with it, those things are usually either armour-piercing or hollowpoint - designed to do a lot of damage. And the gun runs at over 900RPM.

TallGlass

RasTa wrote: »

Whoever was in this car should be fired straight away.

Maybe not fired, but I don't think the two people in that car should be allowed anywhere near firearms again. As someone pointed out on the shooting forum, if this was a member of the public, they would lose there license.

RasTa

Rylee Echoing Flu wrote: »

Why, because you've been vocal and called them thick's here?.

You don't know if that member was a superb guard and team member before this incident.

You've no idea what acts of bravery, commitment and service they've given to the country before yesterday.

And although I find it difficult to swallow the story about the boot opening and a weapons bag falling out, it may have happened just like that (although I doubt it too).

One things for sure, I bet it never happens again and the member will never live it down.

Doesn't matter. One strike and your out. Guns are a different animal all together and this idiot not knowing it was missing should be removed from the firearms unit and never allowed near one again.

Stick him on a desk somewhere were his ****ups won't potentially kill someone.

ohnonotgmail

RasTa wrote: »

Doesn't matter. One strike and your out. Guns are a different animal all together and this idiot not knowing it was missing should be removed from the firearms unit and never allowed near one again.

Stick him on a desk somewhere were his ****ups won't potentially kill someone.

they knew it was missing. did you not read the story?



https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/woman-travelled-on-luas-with-garda-submachine-gun-after-finding-it-on-dublin-street-37104136.html

arybvtcw0eolkf

Claw Hammer wrote: »

A soldier was recently before the courts trying to have his discharge for pointing a weapon at a comrade overturned. The courts held his discharge was justified and I have yet to see anyone comment otherwise. What happened in this incident was far worse.

Matter of opinion as to which is worse at this stage.

One has been through a court of law and has had legal argument and evidence heard, and the other is being given a trial by social media.

I've absolutely no problem with a soldier being discharged from service for pointing a weapon at a comrade.

The other case, well lets see who puts forward to best argument for the defence and prosecution on boards.ie before we start sacking people lol.

But I do believe the script writer for the 'gun fell out of the boot of the car' line of BS should be sacked

TheDoc

RasTa wrote: »

Doesn't matter. One strike and your out. Guns are a different animal all together and this idiot not knowing it was missing should be removed from the firearms unit and never allowed near one again.

Stick him on a desk somewhere were his ****ups won't potentially kill someone.

Ridiculous reaction.

An investigation taking place is the proper procedure to see what happened and if there was any negligence.

If the officer didn't close the boot properly, didn't secure the bag properly (bit made they are using bags btw, the other armed unit have boot lock boxes), was actually meant to use a lockbox but used a bag, or performed any act of negligence then fair enough. There should be sanctions, in accordance with the outlined disciplinary procedures.

However if there transpires to be a fault with the boot, the locking mechanism, the car, or wasn't spotted during servicing or spot checks, then its hardly the officers fault.

TheDoc

Rylee Echoing Flu wrote: »

But I do believe the script writer for the 'gun fell out of the boot of the car' line of BS should be sacked

It does sound ridiculous to be fair

yourdeadwright

TheDoc wrote: »

RasTa wrote: »

Doesn't matter. One strike and your out. Guns are a different animal all together and this idiot not knowing it was missing should be removed from the firearms unit and never allowed near one again.

Stick him on a desk somewhere were his ****ups won't potentially kill someone.

Ridiculous reaction.

An investigation taking place is the proper procedure to see what happened and if there was any negligence.

If the officer didn't close the boot properly, didn't secure the bag properly (bit made they are using bags btw, the other armed unit have boot lock boxes), was actually meant to use a lockbox but used a bag, or performed any act of negligence then fair enough. There should be sanctions, in accordance with the outlined disciplinary procedures.

However if there transpires to be a fault with the boot, the locking mechanism, the car, or wasn't spotted during servicing or spot checks, then its hardly the officers fault.

The boot story is absolute nonsense the lads made up to save there bacon,
So they noticed when it fell out of the boot and didn't stop straight away ?  Should be sacked for that alone,
A child or teen could found that gun and shot someone or Multiple people , How many life's would be ruined,
Whoever's gun that was need to be fired  , they are not fit for the job ,

begbysback

Don't see what the big deal is here, I'm also never sure whether I brought my smg out with me or not.

Ipso

What are the odds of someone being held accountable?

Claw Hammer

Rylee Echoing Flu wrote: »

Matter of opinion as to which is worse at this stage.

One has been through a court of law and has had legal argument and evidence heard, and the other is being given a trial by social media.

I've absolutely no problem with a soldier being discharged from service for pointing a weapon at a comrade.

The other case, well lets see who puts forward to best argument for the defence and prosecution on boards.ie before we start sacking people lol.

But I do believe the script writer for the 'gun fell out of the boot of the car' line of BS should be sacked

if there is a better "explanation" we would have heard by now. In my view the big problem is that the guards start training with weapons far too late in their careers. Regard is not transferred to any kind of armed work until he has been at least 4 years in the job. By the time they get to weapons training, they have lost all ability to be disciplined. They simply do not have the right instincts and attitude to weapons.

Ten of Swords

The long arms used by the ERU is the HK417. There is footage of Gardai carrying them, most recently when that guy was arrested in Tallaght after a 7 hour rampage. Why would they bother with an M4?

Zulu

Ten of Swords wrote: »

Why would they bother with an M4?

Because 'murica!!!

Beta Ray Bill

TheDoc wrote: »

Ridiculous reaction.

An investigation taking place is the proper procedure to see what happened and if there was any negligence.

If the officer didn't close the boot properly, didn't secure the bag properly (bit made they are using bags btw, the other armed unit have boot lock boxes), was actually meant to use a lockbox but used a bag, or performed any act of negligence then fair enough. There should be sanctions, in accordance with the outlined disciplinary procedures.

However if there transpires to be a fault with the boot, the locking mechanism, the car, or wasn't spotted during servicing or spot checks, then its hardly the officers fault.

TheDoc wrote: »

It does sound ridiculous to be fair

As mentioned in my first post on this thread 1 of 3 things happened here.

1: Accidentally misplaced weapon
2: Stolen weapon
3: Deliberately misplaced weapon, (There are plenty of Garda in the pockets of Gangsters in this country)

The "fell out of the boot" story is rubbish.

We're all hoping it's number 1.

This type of gun wouldn't be a massive gain for a Gang had they got their hands on it, as the type of ammunition this weapon uses would be difficult to get in this country.
7.62 (AK-**) or 9mm (UZI) would be much easier to get.

Regardless, there are plenty of people that would not have returned the weapon.
I myself would have kept it to see if they reported it was missing, which we all know they wouldn't

Garda got lucky with this one.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Claw Hammer wrote: »

if there is a better "explanation" we would have heard by now. In my view the big problem is that the guards start training with weapons far too late in their careers. Regard is not transferred to any kind of armed work until he has been at least 4 years in the job. By the time they get to weapons training, they have lost all ability to be disciplined. They simply do not have the right instincts and attitude to weapons.

Absolutely, I've said the same thing for years.

Unlike ourselves they don't have weapons training, safety precautions (times X1000), safe handling etc beaten into them from day one.

I still wonder why AGS store their weapons in the boots of a car, for all all the reasons I can think of why I wouldn't like that I can't think of one good reason why this should be SOP's.

The line about the boot, brilliant & comical. I don't know how many rounds those guys carry but the weapon plus ammo plus bag is a fair bit of weight for a female member of the public just to pick up and walk away with lol ~ and a few fit guards couldn't catch her too lol.

arybvtcw0eolkf

RasTa wrote: »

Stick him on a desk somewhere were his ****ups won't potentially kill someone.

I dare they desk jockies have been responsible for more fvck up's & deaths than any foot soldier.

Beta Ray Bill

Claw Hammer wrote: »

if there is a better "explanation" we would have heard by now. In my view the big problem is that the guards start training with weapons far too late in their careers. Regard is not transferred to any kind of armed work until he has been at least 4 years in the job. By the time they get to weapons training, they have lost all ability to be disciplined. They simply do not have the right instincts and attitude to weapons.

This is happening because there are "waiting lists" to do the respective courses.

For example, as far as I am aware, there is a minimum 5 year wait (realistically it's 10 years) to learn how to use a Garda Motorcycle.

There's a degree of nepotism there

TheDoc

Rylee Echoing Flu wrote: »

I still wonder why AGS store their weapons in the boots of a car, for all all the reasons I can think of why I wouldn't like that I can't think of one good reason why this should be SOP's.

.

This looks to be the rapid response unit. They are a patrol unit that perform a number of other duties, but should a situation arise that requires armed response they can quickly respond.

Unlike the designated armed response unit, who actually don't patrol and only hit the road in full kit, the quick response lads don't.

So they are only really engaging their weapons when the situation requires. Them constantly engaged with their weapons is probably an image and presence they have actively avoided, which personally I agree with.

arybvtcw0eolkf

TheDoc wrote: »

So they are only really engaging their weapons when the situation requires. Them constantly engaged with their weapons is probably an image and presence they have actively avoided, which personally I agree with.

I get that, I'm just speaking personally.

If I sign out a weapon and ammo I don't want it out of my sight or a moment.

But hey, accidents and mistakes happen. They'll learn by this, and no one died (thankfully).

Feisar

Rylee Echoing Flu wrote: »

I get that, I'm just speaking personally.

If I sign out a weapon and ammo I don't want it out of my sight or a moment.

But hey, accidents and mistakes happen. They'll learn by this, and no one died (thankfully).

I was only a sandbag but that ethos is ingrained into soldiers, must not be the same for the Gardaí. I remember footage from Abbeylara, one Garda had his Uzi propped against a wall about 5 yards away from him.

TheDoc

Rylee Echoing Flu wrote: »

I get that, I'm just speaking personally.

If I sign out a weapon and ammo I don't want it out of my sight or a moment.

But hey, accidents and mistakes happen. They'll learn by this, and no one died (thankfully).

ohh I get you

JohnnyFlash

Rylee Echoing Flu wrote: »

Absolutely, I've said the same thing for years.

Unlike ourselves they don't have weapons training, safety precautions (times X1000), safe handling etc beaten into them from day one.

I still wonder why AGS store their weapons in the boots of a car, for all all the reasons I can think of why I wouldn't like that I can't think of one good reason why this should be SOP's.

The line about the boot, brilliant & comical. I don't know how many rounds those guys carry but the weapon plus ammo plus bag is a fair bit of weight for a female member of the public just to pick up and walk away with lol ~ and a few fit guards couldn't catch her too lol.

Are you suggesting that the cannon fodder class in the IDF are better trained in the use of arms than the Emergency Response Unit of the Gardai? A unit that actually gets called out to use these guns in reality, and not just when running around playing soldiers.

You’re talking absolute tarmac, pal.

ED E

The red stripers are equipped with a proper weapons locker, anything significant goes in that lockable tray at the bottom. If correctly stowed theres no way anything could fall out even if the boot did happen to open.

If they're set for rapid deployment it should be on their chest and not in the boot so I don't see that argument.

shamrock55

It fell out of the boot when the car went over a hump and they couldn't go back to retrieve it because of heavy traffic,yea right who the hell do they think we are to believe that,some lad put it down and forgot all about it,simple as that,back to the traffic core for him then

arybvtcw0eolkf

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Are you suggesting that the cannon fodder class in the IDF are better trained in the use of arms than the Emergency Response Unit of the Gardai? A unit that actually gets called out to use these guns in reality, and not just when running around playing soldiers.

You’re talking absolute tarmac, pal.

For absolute certainty we're better trained.

I'll take your bait just this once.

We're not playing airsoft in Syria, Lebanon, Chad, Kosova, Bosnia, Liberia, Somalia, East Timor, Eritrea to name just a few countries we've served.

And when AGS couldn't stop 'The Border Fox' it took a section of Irish soldiers to put a few back burners into the prick and his passenger.

We're not playing soldiers when we're called out to deal with IED's on Irish streets, and we're not playing soldiers when we're guarding Portloaise prison which houses the countries most dangerous prisoners, and we're not playing anything when we escort the same animals safely too and from their court appearances.

No one was playing anything here;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YM1Vbs5L0t4

Or here;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9JDUTAe9aw

Here neither;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WwRWnyMW5g

Ever hear of the Liberian warlord Charles Taylor and our part in capturing him and bringing him to court to face trial for mass murder?.. Charles Taylor and the Irish soldiers who brought him to court.

Supernintento Chalmers

Rylee Echoing Flu wrote: »

Absolutely, I've said the same thing for years.

Unlike ourselves they don't have weapons training, safety precautions (times X1000), safe handling etc beaten into them from day one.

I still wonder why AGS store their weapons in the boots of a car, for all all the reasons I can think of why I wouldn't like that I can't think of one good reason why this should be SOP's.

The line about the boot, brilliant & comical. I don't know how many rounds those guys carry but the weapon plus ammo plus bag is a fair bit of weight for a female member of the public just to pick up and walk away with lol ~ and a few fit guards couldn't catch her too lol.

Just out of curiosity. Would you happen to know how many members of AGS have been killed by friendly fire and how many members of the IDF have been killed by friendly fire?

arybvtcw0eolkf

Supernintento Chalmers wrote: »

Just out of curiosity. Would you happen to know how many members of AGS have been killed by friendly fire and how many members of the IDF have been killed by friendly fire?

I've no idea tbh.

I seem to recall a guard being shot by another member in a botched bank robbery. Not sure if he died, a Google search might work.

There was a recruit injured by another in training a few years back. From member the recruit was shooting blanks but had not put the Blank Firing Attachment onto the muzzle of his rifle.

I don't recall any soldiers being shot by friendly fire with live ball.

doolox

These are the creatures who can have you off the road on 3 captures for speeding even if you are 5 kph above the speed limit and have you not working for three months and lose all your customer base and be dependant on social welfare for the rest of your life.

These creatures should be held to better standards than they hold the general motoring public to. How many times have these arrogant, smug instruments of State domination held me and people like me to account for Tax, NCT, Licences, tyres, lights and countless other desiderata for driving at mostly remedial and moronically slow speeds on roads in this country while members of this force have driven like test pilots with no lights or other warning, safe in the knowledge that they can avoid prosecution by waving a badge, being members of a privileged club of people immune from prosecution for traffic violations etc.

Sheep like you and me must travel around like stunted mullets while these creatures can swan about at any speed they like. The carelessness of losing a gun should lead to dismissal at least. I had to laugh at the Army guy on Joe Duffys show arguing with and berating the standards of training he reckoned were prevalent in the AGS. There is no love lost between the Army and Gardai in Ireland.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Would you not be better dealing with the topic instead of trying to make a personal swipe at another poster?

Leave him be, he's not making any sense.