Changes in the GAA - super thread

salmocab

kilns wrote: »

That is not a new issue however, Dublin have always had that advantage. They have just been very lucky to have a group of gifted players all come along at once, due to population they will always have excellent players but not all at once, this core group have been all together now for a long time

It was always there but in fairness strength and conditioning is way better for everyone than it ever was and lads like the Dublin lads are better placed to take advantage of it than a lot of players.

MayoAreMagic

kilns wrote: »

Do you think this will go on forever or will this Dublin team decline as per my post yesterday and it will become again a 4 or 5 horse race like it always was? Why was there never any outcry that realistically even when it was at its most competitive only 4 or 5 teams would ever have a chance every year. Nothing has changed for the likes of Louth. Leitrim, Sligo, Antrim in the last 50 years, they are still cannon fodder, where is the outcry on this? Or are some people just selfishly looking out for their county alone (those teams that have come close - i.e. Mayo) and that is why their anger is directed at Dublin and not at the system overall. How would they suggest they level the playing field between the likes of Mayo and Leitrim or Kerry and Waterford etc etc

That's the thing. This dublin team is actually in transition at this moment in time. They should be getting pushed closer.They are actually winning games by more now than they were a few years ago.
Therein lies the problem. Their natural troughs in form, are still higher than everyone elses peaks. They have been pushed up to a level that is out of kilter with everyone else. Even if they lose the all ireland this year, it doesnt change a whole lot. They will still go on and win the next 8 of 10 all irelands.

I see the dub flat earthers are now trying to deflect and deride their way out of the debate. But I actually think that the other counties should move together on it also. Why shouldnt they? They are the ones with the power. I think a motion to move dublin out of the all ireland series and into the railway cup would not be a bad move. Now it wouldnt carry, but if it got a bit of support as a protest vote, it might open their eyes a bit.
We will definitely see something I believe, as the dublin fans arent even bothering to go to games now. Slowly but surely the gaa top brass are being brought to the realisation that domination doesnt fill seats, but rather good competition. If they want to make money, they need competitive games. Down the line that will be splitting dublin combined with the offer of optional amalgamation of some counties.

kilns

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

That's the thing. This dublin team is actually in transition at this moment in time. They should be getting pushed closer.They are actually winning games by more now than they were a few years ago.
Therein lies the problem. Their natural troughs in form, are still higher than everyone elses peaks. They have been pushed up to a level that is out of kilter with everyone else. Even if they lose the all ireland this year, it doesnt change a whole lot. They will still go on and win the next 8 of 10 all irelands.

I see the dub flat earthers are now trying to deflect and deride their way out of the debate. But I actually think that the other counties should move together on it also. Why shouldnt they? They are the ones with the power. I think a motion to move dublin out of the all ireland series and into the railway cup would not be a bad move. Now it wouldnt carry, but if it got a bit of support as a protest vote, it might open their eyes a bit.
We will definitely see something I believe, as the dublin fans arent even bothering to go to games now. Slowly but surely the gaa top brass are being brought to the realisation that domination doesnt fill seats, but rather good competition. If they want to make money, they need competitive games. Down the line that will be splitting dublin combined with the offer of optional amalgamation of some counties.

What makes you say they are in transition? They are not, their average age indicates they are at their ultimate peak (27.2). However, statistics also indicate there is a sharp fall from 28 onwards for a gaelic footballer. So by this, I would suggest this could be the last year Dublin are as dominant as they are and maybe others will not improve over the next year but Dublin will naturally decline, however they will still remain serious contenders. Kerry who would normally be considered as their main rivals are only building and they should be hitting their average age peak very shortly

blanch152

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

That's the thing. This dublin team is actually in transition at this moment in time. They should be getting pushed closer.They are actually winning games by more now than they were a few years ago.
Therein lies the problem. Their natural troughs in form, are still higher than everyone elses peaks. They have been pushed up to a level that is out of kilter with everyone else. Even if they lose the all ireland this year, it doesnt change a whole lot. They will still go on and win the next 8 of 10 all irelands.

I see the dub flat earthers are now trying to deflect and deride their way out of the debate. But I actually think that the other counties should move together on it also. Why shouldnt they? They are the ones with the power. I think a motion to move dublin out of the all ireland series and into the railway cup would not be a bad move. Now it wouldnt carry, but if it got a bit of support as a protest vote, it might open their eyes a bit.
We will definitely see something I believe, as the dublin fans arent even bothering to go to games now. Slowly but surely the gaa top brass are being brought to the realisation that domination doesnt fill seats, but rather good competition. If they want to make money, they need competitive games. Down the line that will be splitting dublin combined with the offer of optional amalgamation of some counties.

Dublin are not in transition at the moment, they are at their peak.

Each successive page on this thread seems to bring an even dafter suggestion to the fore. We have had player boycotts, fan boycotts and now the silliest of all, move Dublin into the Railway Cup.

Optional amalgamation isn't the answer, amalgamation must be as compulsory as splitting.

bruschi

kilns wrote: »

if in 2/3 years time Dublin have the same level of domination then there can be some merits in the arguments of those who are adamant that only funding is the issue for Dublins success and is causing the gap to widen.

However, I would argue that Dublin has had a core group of fantastic players since Jim Gavin took over (17 players who played in the 2013 all ireland final are still in the current squad)

Below you will see a break down of the average age of the team profile

2013 AI Starting 15 average age 24.66, total players used average 25.2

2018 AI Starting 15 average age 26.2, total players used average 26.9

2019 Leinster Final starting 15 average 27.2, total players used average 27.7

According to Gaelic stats the peak years of a Gaelic Footballer is between 23 and 27 which would explain the current dominance, there then is a dramatic drop off from 28 onwards.

So only going by statistics, the football team should be due to decline from their sky high standards from next year onwards, it will be interesting to see and we should see teams come closer to Dublin for example Kerry who as a group will be moving into their prime years as a team

My first question is where did you get those age statistics? Because they look wrong to me in a few areas.

If I may, and I think it should start at 2011, not 2013.

the average starting team age of the Dublin team, by what should be very straight forward info, is:

2011 - 25.4
2013 - 24.8
2015 - 26.8
2016 - 27.4
2017 - 26.9
2018 - 26.2
2019 - 26.7

Counting subs who came on and played, the average age is:
2011 - 25.4
2013 - 25.4
2015 - 26.8
2016 - 27.8
2017 - 27.3
2018 - 26.9
2019 - 27.5


Now, please divulge me here and discount the only player whose age is somewhat irrelevant, in that keepers are not really there because of their age or fitness. Also the fact that the keeper is the oldest by ten years over the average somewhat skews things too. this is the average age of the starting outfield players.

2011 - 25.2
2013 - 24.3
2015 - 26.3
2016 - 26.9
2017 - 26.3
2018 - 25.5
2019 - 26.0


The point I am hopefully trying to make here, is that the average age of this Dublin side is not drastically changing over the past 8 years. It has been entirely consistent and actually decreased from 2016. There is nothing in any of those age stats to me says that this team is on the way out.

Also, as a point of note, their U20 team has some excellent players who will seamlessly come through to the senior set up and regenerate again. The idea of a "core group" is somewhat misleading as the core changes with each passing season and the baton moves onto a younger and arguably better player.

Fann Linn

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

That's the thing. This dublin team is actually in transition at this moment in time. They should be getting pushed closer.They are actually winning games by more now than they were a few years ago.
Therein lies the problem. Their natural troughs in form, are still higher than everyone elses peaks. They have been pushed up to a level that is out of kilter with everyone else. Even if they lose the all ireland this year, it doesnt change a whole lot. They will still go on and win the next 8 of 10 all irelands.

I see the dub flat earthers are now trying to deflect and deride their way out of the debate. But I actually think that the other counties should move together on it also. Why shouldnt they? They are the ones with the power. I think a motion to move dublin out of the all ireland series and into the railway cup would not be a bad move. Now it wouldnt carry, but if it got a bit of support as a protest vote, it might open their eyes a bit.
We will definitely see something I believe, as the dublin fans arent even bothering to go to games now. Slowly but surely the gaa top brass are being brought to the realisation that domination doesnt fill seats, but rather good competition. If they want to make money, they need competitive games. Down the line that will be splitting dublin combined with the offer of optional amalgamation of some counties.

Flat earther here, but the other counties won't even organise to get Dublin out of Croker either at Super 8 or Leinster level.

EICVD

This thread is a great laugh, ‘Dub flat earthers’ & Johnny Cooper is ‘run of the mill’ the best so far.

Fann Linn

blanch152 wrote: »

Dublin are not in transition at the moment, they are at their peak.

Each successive page on this thread seems to bring an even dafter suggestion to the fore. We have had player boycotts, fan boycotts and now the silliest of all, move Dublin into the Railway Cup.

Optional amalgamation isn't the answer, amalgamation must be as compulsory as splitting.

As Bonnie said earlier, its getting even more bizarre in here as each day goes by.
Railway Cup ffs.

threeball

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

threeball wrote: »

I've said years ago counties should be amalgamated to make them relevant. Leitrim and Sligo, Westmeath and Longford, Offaly and Laois, only a small sample of counties who do need to join together to really put in a challenge but that still doesn't address the funding issue of Dublin.

Before the funding Dublin were a top county capable of challenging in any year but not unbeatable. The funding has taken Dublin to a different level due to the conditioning of players. A few counties can live with Dublin for 50 mins but they can't live with the conditioning or the replacements that Dublin have over 70-75 mins. Even Cork stuck with ye but conditioning got them in the end.

Deny it all ye want but Dublin are nowhere until the U20 grade and then at the age conditioning makes a real difference they just explode from nowhere. Dublin have plenty of average footballers with supreme conditioning. Johnny Cooper, Eoin Murchan, Philly Mc, MDMA are run of the mill players that have their equal or better in many other counties but they're as well conditioned as an Aussie rules player and thats mostly down to money. Other counties can't live with that. Dublin don't need to add wonderkids every year, just one every 3yrs to add quality to the athletes that surround them.

amalgamting counties isnt the answer. Tiered competition makes far more sense.
Weaker/smaller counties amalgamating wont be challenging all too often at top end of competition and these counties would do far better in a competition where they play more sides of their level and have realistic chance to win.

They've already said they don't want it and we've seen how unpopular the last iteration was.

blanch152

Fann Linn wrote: »

As Bonnie said earlier, its getting even more bizarre in here as each day goes by.
Railway Cup ffs.

To be frank, Dublin are magic at the moment. However, some of these suggestions would stupid coming from a fox. Soon they will be accusing Dublin of playing with three balls on the pitch.

threeball

kilns wrote: »

threeball wrote: »

I've said years ago counties should be amalgamated to make them relevant. Leitrim and Sligo, Westmeath and Longford, Offaly and Laois, only a small sample of counties who do need to join together to really put in a challenge but that still doesn't address the funding issue of Dublin.

Before the funding Dublin were a top county capable of challenging in any year but not unbeatable. The funding has taken Dublin to a different level due to the conditioning of players. A few counties can live with Dublin for 50 mins but they can't live with the conditioning or the replacements that Dublin have over 70-75 mins. Even Cork stuck with ye but conditioning got them in the end.

Deny it all ye want but Dublin are nowhere until the U20 grade and then at the age conditioning makes a real difference they just explode from nowhere. Dublin have plenty of average footballers with supreme conditioning. Johnny Cooper, Eoin Murchan, Philly Mc, MDMA are run of the mill players that have their equal or better in many other counties but they're as well conditioned as an Aussie rules player and thats mostly down to money. Other counties can't live with that. Dublin don't need to add wonderkids every year, just one every 3yrs to add quality to the athletes that surround them.

I will only ask this question once, could you provide evidence that any of the Games Development funding from the GAA (1.3m Euro) is used for the physical condition of players?

The evidence is clear to see as I alluded to above, the huge change in fortunes of the team after funding started, the huge change in fortunes once the underage teams pass minor where conditioning is much less of a factor.
Much as you like to tout the line these are not once in a generation players, there's 3 to 4 extremely good players and 2 to 3 exceptional players but many teams have the same.

MayoAreMagic

kilns wrote: »

What makes you say they are in transition? They are not, their average age indicates they are at their ultimate peak (27.2). However, statistics also indicate there is a sharp fall from 28 onwards for a gaelic footballer. So by this, I would suggest this could be the last year Dublin are as dominant as they are and maybe others will not improve over the next year but Dublin will naturally decline, however they will still remain serious contenders. Kerry who would normally be considered as their main rivals are only building and they should be hitting their average age peak very shortly

They are in transition because they are replacing their old guard. Their main guys now - mannion, kilkenny, mccaffrey, were only kids around 2012 when this team were becoming established. The main guys from that team are now either retired, on the bench or moving towards it, with the outlier being cluxton. If you take the mayo team for example which came about at the same time or maybe a little after, they are in transition also, with many coming to the end.
The difference is dublin have so many top players coming through, that they dont actually dip that much when the transition happens. However there is definitely a transition happening with the Dublin team at present. Ocallaghan, howard, scully, fenton, murchan - all young players. As are mannion, kilkenny and McCaffrey in fact, but they were just precocious talents

blanch152

threeball wrote: »

The evidence is clear to see as I alluded to above, the huge change in fortunes of the team after funding started, the huge change in fortunes once the underage teams pass minor where conditioning is much less of a factor.
Much as you like to tout the line these are not once in a generation players, there's 3 to 4 extremely good players and 2 to 3 exceptional players but many teams have the same.

This Dublin team have several contenders for best ever in their position - McCaffrey, Fenton, Kilkenny, McCarthy - and one contender for greatest ever footballer - Cluxton (greatest goalkeeper goes without saying).

They have forwards who can score off either foot, the best sweeper ever in O'Sullivan.

Describing that as 2 to 3 exceptional and 3 to 4 extremely good players is a joke.

One way to look at it is to consider who would get on the team from other counties. Michael Murphy would play alongside Fenton in midfield, Clifford might get in the forward line for Rock/Costello, but there is nobody in Mayo who would make the team, who would Harte from Tyrone replace? After that, the Dublin options look much better.

MayoAreMagic

blanch152 wrote: »

Dublin are not in transition at the moment, they are at their peak.

Each successive page on this thread seems to bring an even dafter suggestion to the fore. We have had player boycotts, fan boycotts and now the silliest of all, move Dublin into the Railway Cup.

Optional amalgamation isn't the answer, amalgamation must be as compulsory as splitting.

Nothing daft about it. If your concern is developing the youth in dublin, as you keep trying to suggest, then the railway cup shouldnt be an issue, as long as the money keeps coming in, right? Either that or that is in fact a load if bs and you just want the money to keep rolling so that you can keep winning. Your response has given your answer already.

Amalgamations should be optional because if they choose not to, it only affects themselves. Counties would probably get a new lease of life when dublin were split so they might like to try to continue for a while. Maybe they would take up the option at a later date

Fann Linn

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Nothing daft about it. If your concern is developing the youth in dublin, as you keep trying to suggest, then the railway cup shouldnt be an issue, as long as the money keeps coming in, right? Either that or that is in fact a load if bs and you just want the money to keep rolling so that you can keep winning. Your response has given your answer already.

Amalgamations should be optional because if they choose not to, it only affects themselves. Counties would probably get a new lease of life when dublin were split so they might like to try to continue for a while. Maybe they would take up the option at a later date

Do you really believe that Dublin will be split?

A yes or no will do. Thanks.

MayoAreMagic

EICVD wrote: »

This thread is a great laugh, ‘Dub flat earthers’ & Johnny Cooper is ‘run of the mill’ the best so far. This thread doesn’t do much to bring the ‘thick culchie’ stereotype down anyway.

Well it was either that or dub anti-vaxxers, but I figured may well be those on here who are indeed anti-vaxxers, so I chose the former...

MayoAreMagic

Fann Linn wrote: »

Do you really believe that Dublin will be split?

A yes or no will do. Thanks.

Definatly.
A cynical type would argue that it is already in the pipeline. It is the logical conclusion anyway. A minority wont like it, but then that is democracy.

threeball

blanch152 wrote: »

threeball wrote: »

The evidence is clear to see as I alluded to above, the huge change in fortunes of the team after funding started, the huge change in fortunes once the underage teams pass minor where conditioning is much less of a factor.
Much as you like to tout the line these are not once in a generation players, there's 3 to 4 extremely good players and 2 to 3 exceptional players but many teams have the same.

This Dublin team have several contenders for best ever in their position - McCaffrey, Fenton, Kilkenny, McCarthy - and one contender for greatest ever footballer - Cluxton (greatest goalkeeper goes without saying).

They have forwards who can score off either foot, the best sweeper ever in O'Sullivan.

Describing that as 2 to 3 exceptional and 3 to 4 extremely good players is a joke.

One way to look at it is to consider who would get on the team from other counties. Michael Murphy would play alongside Fenton in midfield, Clifford might get in the forward line for Rock/Costello, but there is nobody in Mayo who would make the team, who would Harte from Tyrone replace? After that, the Dublin options look much better.

Cooper, McMahon, Murchan, Scully, Rock. All the top teams have players as good or better at their disposal. Slip some of the top Donegal Tyrone or Kerry lads into the Dublin system and they'd be in the first on the team sheet bracket. Give them the advantages of the professional set up and see where that takes them.

Michael Murphy is the best footballer in the country by a mile. McBrearty better than most your forwards. Donnelly from Tyrone, Stephen o brien, Clifford. There's a ton of players from the top counties better than Dublins but the team as a whole can't live with the pace Dublin set for 75 mins.

Fann Linn

Yep. This thread should be in After Hours.

Fann Linn

threeball wrote: »

Cooper, McMahon, Murchan, Scully, Rock. All the top teams have players as good or better at their disposal. Slip some of the top Donegal Tyrone or Kerry lads into the Dublin system and they'd be in the first on the team sheet bracket. Give them the advantages of the professional set up and see where that takes them.

Michael Murphy is the best footballer in the country by a mile. McBrearty better than most your forwards. Donnelly from Tyrone, Stephen o brien, Clifford. There's a ton of players from the top counties better than Dublins but the team as a whole can't live with the pace Dublin set for 75 mins.

So its Dublin's fitness thats the problem. There's a fix for that which doesn't require money.

kilns

bruschi wrote: »

My first question is where did you get those age statistics? Because they look wrong to me in a few areas.

If I may, and I think it should start at 2011, not 2013.

the average starting team age of the Dublin team, by what should be very straight forward info, is:

2011 - 25.4
2013 - 24.8
2015 - 26.8
2016 - 27.4
2017 - 26.9
2018 - 26.2
2019 - 26.7

Counting subs who came on and played, the average age is:
2011 - 25.4
2013 - 25.4
2015 - 26.8
2016 - 27.8
2017 - 27.3
2018 - 26.9
2019 - 27.5


Now, please divulge me here and discount the only player whose age is somewhat irrelevant, in that keepers are not really there because of their age or fitness. Also the fact that the keeper is the oldest by ten years over the average somewhat skews things too. this is the average age of the starting outfield players.

2011 - 25.2
2013 - 24.3
2015 - 26.3
2016 - 26.9
2017 - 26.3
2018 - 25.5
2019 - 26.0


The point I am hopefully trying to make here, is that the average age of this Dublin side is not drastically changing over the past 8 years. It has been entirely consistent and actually decreased from 2016. There is nothing in any of those age stats to me says that this team is on the way out.

Also, as a point of note, their U20 team has some excellent players who will seamlessly come through to the senior set up and regenerate again. The idea of a "core group" is somewhat misleading as the core changes with each passing season and the baton moves onto a younger and arguably better player.

I physically looked at the games who played, take their date of birth and then calculated it.

You cannot discount the goalkeeper because he conviently he is Cluxton and therefore the oldest in the team and therefore enabling to manipulate the statistics. The goalkeeping position has evolved alot from a guy just standing between the goals. If you want an even more accurate data sample, you would eliminate the oldest and youngest from each group and the average age actually remains more or less the same

You can say Dublin have some excellent under 20 players but can you gaurantee they will come through and be equals or surpass some of the current players, on that basis Kerry should wipe the floor clear with everyone for the next 5 years

blanch152

threeball wrote: »

Cooper, McMahon, Murchan, Scully, Rock. All the top teams have players as good or better at their disposal. Slip some of the top Donegal Tyrone or Kerry lads into the Dublin system and they'd be in the first on the team sheet bracket. Give them the advantages of the professional set up and see where that takes them.

Michael Murphy is the best footballer in the country by a mile. McBrearty better than most your forwards. Donnelly from Tyrone, Stephen o brien, Clifford. There's a ton of players from the top counties better than Dublins but the team as a whole can't live with the pace Dublin set for 75 mins.

Stephen O'Brien? Seriously? He has scored 4-25 in 19 Championship apprearances since 2014. Mannion has 17 points from play this season alone, O'Callaghan 2-9, Kilkenny 1-9.

McBrearty is good, but there isn't a whole lot of space available in the Dublin forward line. Mannion, Kilkenny, O'Callaghan and Rock/Costello are superb and Scully and Howard do a different job. Dublin's attack has been the best thing about them this year.

Let's just talk about Rock. 75th minute in the All-Ireland final, teams are level, free to win the game, who do you want to take it?

salmocab

Can we expect the flat earthers thing to be jogged out repeatedly because it got a laugh? The problem is in the analogy the earth is provably round the stuff here is mostly opinion.

kilns

threeball wrote: »

Cooper, McMahon, Murchan, Scully, Rock. All the top teams have players as good or better at their disposal. Slip some of the top Donegal Tyrone or Kerry lads into the Dublin system and they'd be in the first on the team sheet bracket. Give them the advantages of the professional set up and see where that takes them.

Michael Murphy is the best footballer in the country by a mile. McBrearty better than most your forwards. Donnelly from Tyrone, Stephen o brien, Clifford. There's a ton of players from the top counties better than Dublins but the team as a whole can't live with the pace Dublin set for 75 mins.

You could say Mayo wouldnt have a forward who you would say wow they are top class Yet they reached a couple of All Ireland finals. How do you explain that? How could they reach those levels?

ArielAtom

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Nothing daft about it. If your concern is developing the youth in dublin, as you keep trying to suggest, then the railway cup shouldnt be an issue, as long as the money keeps coming in, right? Either that or that is in fact a load if bs and you just want the money to keep rolling so that you can keep winning. Your response has given your answer already.

Amalgamations should be optional because if they choose not to, it only affects themselves. Counties would probably get a new lease of life when dublin were split so they might like to try to continue for a while. Maybe they would take up the option at a later date

The fact that the Railway Cup is no longer a competition would suggest otherwise!!!!!!! Flatearthers alright!!!!!!!!!

gaffer91

This thread seems to have turned into a bit of back- slapping session for the Dublin fans.

There's a tendency among the Dubs who claim the current championship is a level playing field to try to deny and obfuscate and lead things off on tangents. It's important to just bring things back to basics and narrow the argument down to the key facts which are as follows:

1. Dublin are over- funded relative to every other county. This funding helps them to win games and titles they wouldn't otherwise win.

2. The games development funding does help the senior side- people age so money spent 15 years ago on development squads etc can be considered a down payment for today. Even if it was only spent on getting the foreigners to play to the game as some people would like us to believe (it isn't), the extra central funding saves Dublin from having to spend their own money on this. Therefore freeing up more funds to spend on their senior sides.

3. Even accounting for the central funding, Dublin get millions more from their sponsorship partners and from the government - People don't even contest this is true but instead try to claim you're as red as Lenin for saying this should be shared for all counties and the GAA to benefit.

4. Dublin have other advantages as well- most obviously population and playing all consequential games at home. Just because they historically did not take full value from these advantages doesn't mean they weren't unfair.

5. Dublin's success is not down to volunteerism or a "golden generation" or any other nonsense.

This thread is never ending but these are most of the key facts. It's not fair and there is definitely an asterisk beside Dublin's victories.

Just waiting for someone to ask "What about Kilkenny?" in response now and we can start the process again.

Fann Linn

ArielAtom wrote: »

The fact that the Railway Cup is no longer a competition would suggest otherwise!!!!!!! Flatearthers alright!!!!!!!!!

It gets better. He put some of the blame on Aslan a few pages back.

blanch152

gaffer91 wrote: »

This thread seems to have turned into a bit of back- slapping session for the Dublin fans.

There's a tendency among the Dubs who claim the current championship is a level playing field to try to deny and obfuscate and lead things off on tangents. It's important to just bring things back to basics and narrow the argument down to the key facts which are as follows:

1. Dublin are over- funded relative to every other county. This funding helps them to win games and titles they wouldn't otherwise win.

2. The games development funding does help the senior side- people age so money spent 15 years ago on development squads etc can be considered a down payment for today. Even if it was only spent on getting the foreigners to play to the game as some people would like us to believe (it isn't), the extra central funding saves Dublin from having to spend their own money on this. Therefore freeing up more funds to spend on their senior sides.

3. Even accounting for the central funding, Dublin get millions more from their sponsorship partners and from the government - People don't even contest this is true but instead try to claim you're as red as Lenin for saying this should be shared for all counties and the GAA to benefit.

4. Dublin have other advantages as well- most obviously population and playing all consequential games at home. Just because they historically did not take full value from these advantages doesn't mean they weren't unfair.

5. Dublin's success is not down to volunteerism or a "golden generation" or any other nonsense.

This thread is never ending but these are most of the key facts. It's not fair and there is definitely an asterisk beside Dublin's victories.

Before we deal with those points, can we agree that there are the top-ten take-aways from this thread?


1. Aslan are responsible for the success of the Dublin team

2. Dublin would be better off playing in a non-existent competition called the Railway Cup

3. Stephen O'Brien would walk onto the Dublin team (along with several hundred others)

4. Players should organise a boycott of games

5. Fans should boycott games involving Dublin

6. Johnny Cooper is a run-of-the-mill player

7. Only Dublin players can do strength and conditioning training

8. Lads in the pub on All-Ireland night agree that Dublin are engaged in financial doping

9. Ewan McKenna is a sage

10. Jim Gavin says in private that Dublin have all the advantages

threeball

blanch152 wrote: »

threeball wrote: »

Cooper, McMahon, Murchan, Scully, Rock. All the top teams have players as good or better at their disposal. Slip some of the top Donegal Tyrone or Kerry lads into the Dublin system and they'd be in the first on the team sheet bracket. Give them the advantages of the professional set up and see where that takes them.

Michael Murphy is the best footballer in the country by a mile. McBrearty better than most your forwards. Donnelly from Tyrone, Stephen o brien, Clifford. There's a ton of players from the top counties better than Dublins but the team as a whole can't live with the pace Dublin set for 75 mins.

Stephen O'Brien? Seriously? He has scored 4-25 in 19 Championship apprearances since 2014. Mannion has 17 points from play this season alone, O'Callaghan 2-9, Kilkenny 1-9.

McBrearty is good, but there isn't a whole lot of space available in the Dublin forward line. Mannion, Kilkenny, O'Callaghan and Rock/Costello are superb and Scully and Howard do a different job. Dublin's attack has been the best thing about them this year.

Let's just talk about Rock. 75th minute in the All-Ireland final, teams are level, free to win the game, who do you want to take it?

So because a player happens to be in a team that's not performing very well he isn't as good as a player who has the luxury of having a team around him that are?
I suppose Gary Brennan, Shane Walsh, Brian Hurley, Daniel Flynn wouldn't kick snow off a rope either.

Fann Linn

gaffer91 wrote: »

This thread seems to have turned into a bit of back- slapping session for the Dublin fans.

There's a tendency among the Dubs who claim the current championship is a level playing field to try to deny and obfuscate and lead things off on tangents. It's important to just bring things back to basics and narrow the argument down to the key facts which are as follows:

1. Dublin are over- funded relative to every other county. This funding helps them to win games and titles they wouldn't otherwise win.

2. The games development funding does help the senior side- people age so money spent 15 years ago on development squads etc can be considered a down payment for today. Even if it was only spent on getting the foreigners to play to the game as some people would like us to believe (it isn't), the extra central funding saves Dublin from having to spend their own money on this. Therefore freeing up more funds to spend on their senior sides.

3. Even accounting for the central funding, Dublin get millions more from their sponsorship partners and from the government - People don't even contest this is true but instead try to claim you're as red as Lenin for saying this should be shared for all counties and the GAA to benefit.

4. Dublin have other advantages as well- most obviously population and playing all consequential games at home. Just because they historically did not take full value from these advantages doesn't mean they weren't unfair.

5. Dublin's success is not down to volunteerism or a "golden generation" or any other nonsense.

This thread is never ending but these are most of the key facts. It's not fair and there is definitely an asterisk beside Dublin's victories.

Just waiting for someone to ask "What about Kilkenny?" in response now and we can start the process again.

Not worried about Kilkenny.
Any link for the asterisk?