Changes in the GAA - super thread

kilns wrote: »

Is that a serious question?

OK once again the funding is for Games Development i.e. development of the participation and coaching of children throughout the county

Is there a way of verifying this? How do we know the Dublin County Board are spending every cent of his funding on "children"?
Do the GAA demand proof of this as a condition for providing this funding?
Or do they just take their word for it?

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

You still haven't proved or shown any stats to suggest Dublin is a special case compared to the rest of Ireland and deserves more help with GAA participation.

Every county needs help with participation. This is the scandal of the increased funds to Dublin, it borders on corruption imo. One county favoured over all others with increased funds for no valid reason. And it has completely distorted the playing field in Gaelic football to the point where for example the Leinster Championship has been killed off.

OK lets breakdown it down simply for you Dublin has 30% of the total population of Ireland. In the 90s the GAA was dying in Dublin, and there was vast areas of Dublin which had no clubs even catering for them, in addition there were new areas of Dublin which were being built which would house thousands and thousands. Something had to be done, like or not Dublin is good for the GAA as no other county can create the revenue streams which Dublin do, if nothing was done, the GAA would be minority sport in Dublin and the GAA in general would have suffered.

As much as you would like to dispute it but the GAA is the number 1 sport in the vast majority of rural areas around the country. It was obvious the need to ensure the future of the GAA in Dublin and the plan was put in place.

Yes some other urban areas around the country the GAA is in the minority and that needs to be addressed and I dont know if the appetite was their from these counties to develop them, all i know is the appetite was in Dublin and I firmly believe without GPOs etc the GAA in Dublin would be tiny minority.

The funding was not about pumping money into elite squads and giving them access to scientests etc it was aimed at children and getting more involved in the game and deep down you know that.

Can you give me a clear example of how the funding has distorted the playing field in gaelic football? Would the players that are there now not be there because of funding? Dublin in the last 10 years have been blessed with some of the most talented players ever to play the game. Are there players of the same standard coming through to take their place, it does not seem so. But why not since they are getting all this funding for the best players???? Dublin always had a population advantage so once a good management structure was put in place there were bound to improve

kilns wrote: »

Is that a serious question?

OK once again the funding is for Games Development i.e. development of the participation and coaching of children throughout the county

You still haven't proved or shown any stats to suggest Dublin is a special case compared to the rest of Ireland and deserves more help with GAA participation.

Every county needs help with participation. This is the scandal of the increased funds to Dublin, it borders on corruption imo. One county favoured over all others with increased funds for no valid reason. And it has completely distorted the playing field in Gaelic football to the point where for example the Leinster Championship has been killed off.

lukin wrote: »

So why keep taking the money then if it's "management and a winning mentality" that is the reason for the success?
Why not ask the GAA to reduce your funding?

Is that a serious question?

OK once again the funding is for Games Development i.e. development of the participation and coaching of children throughout the county

kilns wrote: »

its not an amazing coincidence that Dublin have a very good group of players, they have had many in the past, the difference now is management and a winning mentality.

So why keep taking the money then if it's "management and a winning mentality" that is the reason for the success?
Why not ask the GAA to reduce your funding?

Dots1982

kilns wrote: »

I agree, a dramatic change is needed for competitiveness like combining even 3 counties together i.e Sligo, Leitrim, Fermanagh for example but the problem could be people will lose that connection and sense of pride in their county

It will have to far more radical than that to make for meaningful change; combining Kildare, Westmeath and Meath...Cork & Kerry...Galway & Mayo.

The smaller counties will have to team up into 5 county amalgamations.

Dots1982 wrote: »

Could be a split but the truth that all gaels have to face up to eventually is that 32 teams in a small country like Ireland is far too many.

10-12 teams and you’ve got a real competition

A country (Australia) far bigger than ours has 18 AFL teams.

We have an obvious attachment to the inter county system but truth is counties like Laois, Louth or Wexford are not really competitive with even Kildare or Meath anymore.

Laois bet Kildare at under 20 this year. Their first win at any level since 2010. I have no idea when the likes of Louth or Wexford etc bet Kildare at any level.

I agree, a dramatic change is needed for competitiveness like combining even 3 counties together i.e Sligo, Leitrim, Fermanagh for example but the problem could be people will lose that connection and sense of pride in their county which makes the GAA unique in many ways

On another note the provincial championships need to go its crazy to think, Cork have had to do nothing really and are one game away from the Super 8s, when you compare to what Armagh had to do to get to the previous round and then be knocked out.

Dots1982

kilns wrote: »

I personally think although it wont be popular that Dublin will have to be split into 2, it will take the ethos of the GAA away or the alternative is that some weaker counties combine, either way its not a popular issue.

If for example Dublin did split in two would that also mean the club scene would have to split in two also?

Could be a split but the truth that all gaels have to face up to eventually is that 32 teams in a small country like Ireland is far too many.

10-12 teams and you’ve got a real competition

A country (Australia) far bigger than ours has 18 AFL teams.

We have an obvious attachment to the inter county system but truth is counties like Laois, Louth or Wexford are not really competitive with even Kildare or Meath anymore.

Laois bet Kildare at under 20 this year. Their first win at any level since 2010. I have no idea when the likes of Louth or Wexford etc bet Kildare at any level.

Dots1982 wrote: »

Understand that the funding figures make peoples’ eye bulge but really this domination comes down to population mainly

Between 1990-2016 Dublin population increased by 300,000 people. So much more than the present entire populations of Kildare and Meath.

It’s not a sexy issue like funding but it’s far more key to properly understanding Dublin’s success.

I personally think although it wont be popular that Dublin will have to be split into 2, it will take the ethos of the GAA away or the alternative is that some weaker counties combine, either way its not a popular issue.

If for example Dublin did split in two would that also mean the club scene would have to split in two also?

lukin wrote: »

It seems an amazing coincidence that Dublin's period of dominance began a few years after the time that ye started to receive all this extra funding. It's just a coincidence though I am sure.

Again the points i made, where do you dispute the points?

its not an amazing coincidence that Dublin have a very good group of players, they have had many in the past, the difference now is management and a winning mentality.

Dots1982

Understand that the funding figures make peoples’ eye bulge but really this domination comes down to population mainly

Between 1990-2016 Dublin population increased by 300,000 people. So much more than the present entire populations of Kildare and Meath.

It’s not a sexy issue like funding but it’s far more key to properly understanding Dublin’s success.

kilns wrote: »

Do you dispute the points I made which are not funding related, I would like to hear

It seems an amazing coincidence that Dublin's period of dominance began a few years after the time that ye started to receive all this extra funding. It's just a coincidence though I am sure.

lukin wrote: »

Delusional.

Do you dispute the points I made which are not funding related, I would like to hear

kilns wrote: »

So take away the funding and Dublin still would have won all before them

Delusional.

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

So from the way you have worded the above, you are saying money did play a factor but other advantages were bigger factors?

I am saying for the current team the funding was not a factor, the funding has helped clubs attract more children and for new clubs and areas where no children have previously been reached to be able now to be reached and brought into the game

If the funding is to have an impact it will be long term and you will see I would estimate in 5 to 10 years, however, if you look at under age success as a barometer than so far you could argue that funding is not directly related to success

Beechwoodspark

kilns wrote: »

No, population, ease of movement within the county, facilities (DCU) and some of the greatest players ever to play the game along with one of the greatest manager plus the lack of any real depth of decent opposition over this time has been a much bigger factor

The funding has revived clubs and got more children involved in the sports both boys and girls

So from the way you have worded the above, you are saying money did play a factor but other advantages were bigger factors?

lukin wrote: »

So just so I can be absolutely unequivocal about this; you are saying that the funding Dublin have received from the GAA has not helped them in any way to win all the All-Ireland's they have won?
A simple "yes" or "no" will suffice, no need for a long-winded answer.

No, population, ease of movement within the county, facilities (DCU) and some of the greatest players ever to play the game along with one of the greatest manager plus the lack of any real depth of decent opposition over this time has been a much bigger factor

If Dublin did not receive a penny of funding would we still have had Cluxton, Cooper, McCarthy, OSullivan, McCaffrey, Fenton, Brogan, Costello, Flynn, Connolly, Kilkenny, Mannion - yes we would

Would DCU be there? - yes it would (it was being used in the 90s and 00s too)

Is Dublin small so it is easy to reach training sessions etc - yes it is

Is the population huge compared to other counties and therefore a natural larger pick of players - yes it is

Is the standard of opposition in general poor - yes, only Mayo (being better than the sum of their parts) have really pushed Dublin once or twice but still never beat them under Gavin

So take away the funding and Dublin still would have won all before them

The funding has revived clubs and got more children involved in the sports both boys and girls

Jaden wrote: »

Switch Dublin for literally any other county, and the question still stands. Odd that one specific county would be singled out.

Wait, that's not odd...

So just so I can be absolutely unequivocal about this; you are saying that the funding Dublin have received from the GAA has not helped them in any way to win all the All-Ireland's they have won?
A simple "yes" or "no" will suffice, no need for a long-winded answer.

Stoner

ToBeFrank123 wrote:

The reverse is also true btw, in many parts of Dublin the GAA is overwhelmingly the number 1 sport and others don't even come close. Agreed?

No, absolutely not

Soccer is no 1 and for good reason

Jaden

lukin wrote: »

How do we know that Dublin are spending all this Games Development money on kids? Is there a way it can be proven? And let's say they were; then surely if the GAA are providing these huge sums of money for Games development then it frees up a lot of Dublin GAA's "normal" income for spending on the senior team?
I expect you will come back with an argument to disprove this also.

Switch Dublin for literally any other county, and the question still stands. Odd that one specific county would be singled out.

Wait, that's not odd...

kilns wrote: »

which it is, funding that comes from the GAA for games development (which are the figures which are always discussed) not one Euro goes to the running of the senior teams and if you would like to provide evidence to the contrary I would be delighted to see it

How do we know that Dublin are spending all this Games Development money on kids? Is there a way it can be proven? And let's say they were; then surely if the GAA are providing these huge sums of money for Games development then it frees up a lot of Dublin GAA's "normal" income for spending on the senior team?
I expect you will come back with an argument to disprove this also.

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Well it appears soccer is the number 1 sport across Ireland and by a long way.

https://www.balls.ie/football/soccer-players-gaa-players-ireland-went-war-whod-win-108849

But again, there's need for a further breakdown of the stats for Dublin and the rest of the country. But it is interesting that there are more soccer clubs than gaelic ones in Ireland.

Not surprising really, however in terms of clubs, I know a group guys who just formed their own "club" for just their team to have a kick about on a Sunday afternoon, there are plenty of those around Dublin

Well it appears soccer is the number 1 sport across Ireland and by a long way.

https://www.balls.ie/football/soccer-players-gaa-players-ireland-went-war-whod-win-108849

The battle for the hearts and minds of the Irish sporting youth has long been a contentious and highly political one. Soccer sits atop the pile with 340,070 participants across the country in 2,500 clubs. The GAA finds itself in second place with 294, 577 registered players across 2,359 clubs. Rugby, though growing, is a distant third with 158,685 registered players and 236 clubs.

But again, there's need for a further breakdown of the stats for Dublin and the rest of the country. But it is interesting that there are more soccer clubs than gaelic ones in Ireland.

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

These are stats you pulled out of nowhere and based on your opinion. I doubt you'd let me away with doing the same.

Re rural areas, you know as well as I there is a GAA club and a soccer club in virtually every town and village in Ireland.

The reverse is also true btw, in many parts of Dublin the GAA is overwhelmingly the number 1 sport and others don't even come close. Agreed?

I agree but i would say they are a very close estimate or what would you suggest they would be?

Thats why I stated 90%, the other 10% would be made of up of soccer and rugby being the number 1 sport in rural areas but we both know its rare in rural areas where GAA is not number one

I agree thats why I stated 30/40 % that its number 1 in Dublin but on the flip side up until 15 years they would have been zero presence in certain parts of Dublin. Look at Ranelagh Gaels as an example there was no club in Dublin 6 (which is a huge area with a huge population) up until around 2003/2004, now its in there and thriving. That is the same thing the GAA need to do with big towns around ireland like Drogheda, Dundalk, Galway City etc

kilns wrote: »

Its not on the same scale and you know it. The GAA is the number one sport in about 90% of every rural area in the country, in Dublin I would argue that figure would be around 30/40% if that

These are stats you pulled out of nowhere and based on your opinion. I doubt you'd let me away with doing the same.

Re rural areas, you know as well as I there is a GAA club and a soccer club in virtually every town and village in Ireland.

The reverse is also true btw, in many parts of Dublin the GAA is overwhelmingly the number 1 sport and others don't even come close. Agreed?

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

I cleared it up pretty well. Its not my fault you or Kilns can't accept there are other sports in Mayo that are competing with the GAA.

The suggestion that its GAA or nothing in Mayo is more of the usual nonsense.

Its not on the same scale and you know it. The GAA is the number one sport in about 90% of every rural area in the country, in Dublin I would argue that figure would be around 30/40% if that

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Ah here we go again with this nonsense.

The facts about Dublins funding advantage are out there, not made up by me. You just bypass the facts and go straight for the man. Expected at this stage.

How many nationalities are playing with your under 20s?

Its not nonsense when it clearly clouds your judgement

Dublin have advantages in many forms, mostly population and the small size of the county and yes the funding has let children play the game who might not have got an opportunity and yes with more children playing the game the chances of a better player representing Dublin increases but the whole point is that is not the objective of the GAA. The GAA was dying a slow death in Dublin and something needed to be done and it has been done and very succesfully i might add. Its an ongoing process but they are trying to rebalance take for example the 2018 figures - Dublin received 1.3m and Mayo 134k. On the face of it you might complain thats so unfair but you have to break it down per child and it works out at 4,31 per child vs 3,93

Who cares how many nationalities play with the under 20s non nationals participation is not an accurate way to gauge participation. There are 302,748 children under 18 in Dublin, 11,283 are non nationals which is 3.7%. All from census figures if you wish to check

Slattsy wrote: »

Thanks for clearing that up.

As you were.

I cleared it up pretty well. Its not my fault you or Kilns can't accept there are other sports in Mayo that are competing with the GAA.

The suggestion that its GAA or nothing in Mayo is more of the usual nonsense.

Slattsy

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Slattsy wrote: »

Has anyone from Mayo ever gone on to be an elite athlete or sportsperson?

Do Mayo have any (worthwhile) soccer clubs? Or Rugby? Can't think of any boxers that represented Ireland come to think of it..

Plenty of GAA lads that are half decent tbf. Wonder why that is. Hmmm

There are few/no sporting centres of excellence in Mayo so that immediately puts the county at a disadvantage. Nevertheless sport is strong.

Westport United have reached junior FAI cup finals.
Various underage soccer teams regularly reach all finals and semi finals and win regionally.
Ballina are strong in the rugby but obviously you need to move to Connacht to go professional.
The Ballina basketball team competed for a few years but fell away.
One or two nifty boxers.
A couple good athletes.

Not sure I said competitors in other sports had to compete at an elite level by the way. I said the sports were strong in that there are a lot of registered players playing them.

Thanks for clearing that up.

As you were.