Can anyone advise on Tusla - Update: now with the Gardai

nbsr

Personal here but they traumatised me there absolutely ****e, as warning too anyone reading try your best not too ever have too deal with them, I'm also trying/planning too get therapy with rcc soon, I hope everything works out with you op, all the best.

erica74

Hi all, I was hesitant about posting this update because I don't want to dishearten anyone in the same position as me but I'd also like to be honest about this process.

So, as stated above, I made my report to Tusla in February of this year and heard nothing from them. My sister made her report to Tusla towards the end of last year and received a 2 page letter reply from Tusla about a month later looking to meet with her to take a full statement.

I had kind of forgotten about Tusla for a while and then, suddenly, my focus turned to them and why I hadn't heard from them. Particularly after hearing on the grapevine that my brother has not had any contact from Tusla.

At the beginning of July, I emailed the person in Tusla who had sent the 2 page letter to my sister, and it has taken since then to get a simple answer out of him. I've never dealt with a more incompetent, badly run organisation in my life. I contacted the person in Tusla to ask if they had received my report as I hadn't heard anything and it took nearly 5 weeks for him to answer that yes or no question.

It turned out that they have received it and have done nothing about it. It was only yesterday that I received the standard 2 page letter that my sister received last year, which basically says you have triggered our statutory responsibility to investigate.
So, since I made my report in February of this year, they have done nothing. They have also done nothing since my sister made her report at the end of last year. So much for "children first", my brother has 2 daughters. No investigation has started. I know that earlier on in the thread, I wasn't sure if Tusla had contacted my brother or his family but, I now know that they haven't.

Anyway, because I was getting the run around with Tusla, I felt quite anxious about my brother's daughters. Had they been left in a bad situation for the past 6 months because Tusla had done nothing? Had they been in a bad situation for the past 18 years (one is 18 and the other is 16) because I hadn't disclosed the abuse sooner?
So, I met with a Garda from my locality and asked questions and got information about the whole Garda and court process. Up until the meeting with this Garda, I wasn't sure if I wanted to engage with the Gardai at all. However, after meeting with that Garda, I made my mind up and decided I wanted to make a formal complaint about my brother.

On Tuesday, I met with 2 Gardai in the Vulnerable Persons Unit in my locality. It was an awful experience. I met 2 female Gardai and they were so nice and patient and understanding but having to relive my childhood in detail in order to give my statement was awful.
I went through a whole rainbow of emotions, nervous, sad, embarrassed, anger. I was there for around 4 hours and haven't felt quite right since then. However, I do know that I feel good about my decision to meet the Gardai.
I gave my statement, which was long, and one of the Gardai then had to read it back to me and that felt even longer and that was awful, hearing my childhood out loud made it seem very real and painful and very very sad.

My statement will now be typed up, sent to the garda station local to where my brother lives, which is also in the same area as my childhood address, where the abuse took place. A local Garda will be assigned to it and it will be investigated.
The gardai told me that it will most likely go to court. She said a file will be prepared for the DPP and that the majority of cases are going to court, in order for the parties to feel they have been properly through the justice system and treated fairly. They told me my brother will be arrested and brought in to give a statement and if he admits everything (which he did last year, in a text to my sister) then I won't need to give evidence and it will be simpler.
There is a maximum 2 year waiting list for court so, for now, I'm just letting the legal side of things go and leaving it up to the Gardai.

It has been a very painful and draining experience.

Flippyfloppy

I'm so sorry that Tulsa were so difficult to deal with. Well done for having the strength to go to the Garda. You've done the right thing. For yourself, and for those girls. x

nikkibikki

Wow well done Erica. You are amazing. That was such a brave thing to do!

blueberrypie

Erica best of luck. You are doing the right thing for yourself, your sister and your vulnerable nieces.

Senature

That's so courageous, well done. Try to give yourself lots of tlc you have been through such a lot.

erica74

Thanks everyone, I appreciate your support.

.......

Well done.

Dont be beating yourself up for delays etc....

What youve done is very difficult, and made more difficult by the incompetent organisations you have been forced to deal with.

I hope you get some peace from this.

charlietheminxx

You’re so strong. I really admire you, it takes serious courage to go through all that.

erica74

Would it be possible for a mod to change the thread title as the situation is now less about Tusla and more about the gardai?

So, I made my official statement to the gardai in my locality about a month ago and didn't expect to hear anything for at least a few months. However, I had a phone call today from a garda in my brother's locality to say that she has received my statement and was just making contact to give me her details (which was much appreciated by me) and let me know what the plan is.

So this garda will interview my parents, my sister (who will probably refuse to give a statement because she doesn't want to), my husband (because I disclosed the abuse to him 10 years ago) and then my brother - in that order. I was surprised that she was planning to interview my parents first and so soon but, it makes sense, presumably she wants to have all the information prior to interviewing my brother. The garda is hoping to meet with my husband within about 6 weeks so that means, she'll probably interview my parents fairly shortly.

It's all gotten quite scary again. I feel quite sad today. This feeling that I've destroyed the family is weighing me down. I know it's not my actions that have destroyed the family but I can't help feeling responsible and guilty. To be fair, there wasn't much family there to begin with before I started this process so it's not like I've destroyed something particularly good.

I feel most worried and guilty about my dad because he knows absolutely nothing about this and being contacted by the gardai will probably be a big shock to him but I suppose there's nothing I can do about that.

I actually think I feel happier that my parents will be interviewed first because, that means my brother can't try to get in front of this and do damage control. By the time he's interviewed, it'll be too late for him to make up a load of lies, which would be his usual tactic. I suppose it's a good thing that nobody will have an opportunity to speak to my parents before a garda does.

Anyway, I just said I'd update the thread and say thanks again to you all for your support and advice.

.......

Two things stand out for me from your last post:

1 - You havent destroyed your family. You have not. Not at all. Please dont think you have.

2 - Your father. You might be surprised. He may have his suspicions. Even if he doesnt, it cannot be helped. And again, you didnt cause this.

Youre doing great and I sincerely hope that things go as smoothly as they can for you.

nikkibikki

erica74 wrote:

It's all gotten quite scary again. I feel quite sad today. This feeling that I've destroyed the family is weighing me down. I know it's not my actions that have destroyed the family but I can't help feeling responsible and guilty. To be fair, there wasn't much family there to begin with before I started this process so it's not like I've destroyed something particularly good.

None of this is on you. Literally none of it. Did the garda say it's ok to talk to your family while she is investigating? I'd imagine your Dad will take it any number of ways but will try to talk to you in any case.

erica74

nikkibikki wrote: »

None of this is on you. Literally none of it. Did the garda say it's ok to talk to your family while she is investigating? I'd imagine your Dad will take it any number of ways but will try to talk to you in any case.

Yeah, she said it's fine, she actually told me to expect a text or a phone call from one or both of my parents as that's what usually happens.

sexmag

I do find it quite strange the guard told you so much, i mean by telling you the order shes interviewing people its quite possible that someone will alert your brother,possible your parents (which is natural as theyll want to ask him WTF is going on) and he may try to run which will hamper their investigation no?

sexmag

sexmag wrote: »

I do find it quite strange the guard told you so much, i mean by telling you the order shes interviewing people its quite possible that someone will alert your brother,possible your parents (which is natural as theyll want to ask him WTF is going on) and he may try to run which will hamper their investigation no?

Is the OP going to inform them? That's the only person that could.

.......

sexmag wrote: »

I do find it quite strange the guard told you so much, i mean by telling you the order shes interviewing people its quite possible that someone will alert your brother,possible your parents (which is natural as theyll want to ask him WTF is going on) and he may try to run which will hamper their investigation no?

Although it may seem a bit odd, we dont live in tv land where the cops co-ordinate and swoop for an investigation for a historical crime.

They will perform an investigation. They are telling the OP the order in which people will be interviewed so that she knows the investigation is progressing.

It doesnt matter if the parents tell the brother. He already knows what he has done. There is nothing to suggest he is a flight risk. He would be well aware that fleeing because the Guards want to speak to him would probably result in an upgrade from investigation to a warrant.

They type of arrest you read about in the papers such as Graham Dwyer were performed as they were because the Guards had enough evidence to perform an arrest and charge him with a crime and they believed he was a danger to society at large.

Usually they call and talk to people as part of an investigation before they charge anyone with anything.

erica74

bubblypop wrote: »

Is the OP going to inform them? That's the only person that could.

Nope. The first they'll hear of this is from the garda herself.

My dad may try to kill my brother (not even joking here) and my mother will contact my brother, try to cover it all up, stay in bed for days, blame me, blame my sister, probably in that order.

Thanks again for the replies.

LonelyBoy84

erica74 wrote: »

Nope. The first they'll hear of this is from the garda herself.

My dad may try to kill my brother (not even joking here) and my mother will contact my brother, try to cover it all up, stay in bed for days, blame me, blame my sister, probably in that order.

Thanks again for the replies.

Do you mind if I ask what age you, your sister & brother were when this happened?

erica74

Asked by you and answered by me on the first page.

LonelyBoy84 wrote: »

What age were you/your brother at the time?

erica74 wrote: »

It started when I was around 6 and continued until I was around 9, my brother is 6 years older than me.

LonelyBoy84

erica74 wrote: »

Asked by you and answered by me on the first page.

Apologies. Missed that

Red Lightning

Erica.....you dear are a f**king hero.

DO NOT FOR ONE SECOND THINK YOU DESTROYED YOUR FAMILY.

The sick individual that abused you and your sister destroyed your family.

Your strength and courage is phenomenal.

Keep fighting to get your justice.

erica74

Hi all, I have another update on this. The gardai have been carrying out their investigation and have now got to the stage of seeking witness statements from my parents, my sister, my husband and my brother. This is to ensure that there are no inconsistencies or anything mad in my story.

The gardai came to my house to take my husband's statement 2 weeks ago and that was very hard for him, for both of us, but definitely for him. The whole situation has been very difficult for him and he has actually been referred to a counsellor by his employer, who have been very very good to him.

Then, the next stage was to interview my parents. The investigating garda called me yesterday to say that she had called my Dad to ask if she could call out to my parents house for a chat with them. Of course, when she said she was ringing in relation to a complaint made by his daughter he wanted to see her straight away and find out what was going on so he went straight into the garda station. This was my Dad's first time finding out about the abuse. He was very very shocked but agreed to attend to give a statement today and he has done so. He called me today, our first time actually speaking about this matter, and it was awful and at the same time, great to just get it all out there.
My mother, on the other hand, is not so easy. You would think that if you became aware of one of your children making an accusation like this against one of your other children, you would make it your priority to attend the garda station asap to offer whatever help you could. Not my mother. She is working in a large retailer as just a regular staff member and has said that the next day she would be able to get off to go to the garda station is Friday 23rd. Now, I know some of you may be thinking I'm being harsh but I know my mother and this is her being a difficult bitch. She could very easily arrange to take an hour between now and Friday 23rd to go to the garda station:rolleyes:
On the topic of my mother, my sister and I haven't spoken to her since around July 2017, because her response to us disclosing the abuse to her and confronting her about the way she also abused us was to cut us out of her life. However, she has been letting on to my Dad that she speaks to us every week. Also, my mother was in Dublin 2 weeks ago, where my sister lives, and told my Dad that she called to see her and they spent some time together

The phone conversation with my Dad was quite upsetting, I know he is shocked and this obviously came as an awful surprise but I'm quite saddened by some of the things he said. Stuff like "will this be all over the papers?", "I'll have to sell up everything and leave", "is there anything I can do to sort this out?", "will he go to jail?", "we'll have to keep this out of the papers". He also quizzed me on whether I will be maintaining my anonymity, something which I haven't given a lot of thought to but he asked me about it 3 times during the phone conversation.

He also told me that my brother called over to my parents house last night, which wouldn't be unusual. I'm not sure if he was asked over by my parents or if he just happened to be calling over anyway. My Dad discussed it with him and said that my brother didn't deny anything. I don't know what else was discussed and I don't care because it will either be lies or excuses. He also told me that my brother and his wife are meeting the HSE Social Workers today and at that meeting, they will have sanctions imposed on them that he can't have unsupervised access to his children until their investigation is complete.

My Dad mentioned something, which makes me think that my brother was in his ear last night trying to reassure him that this would all go away. My Dad wouldn't be particularly clued into this sort of thing at all. My Dad said to me "you were both minors when it happened so will that make a difference?", I'm wondering if my brother told him that because we were both minors that he can't be prosecuted? I know that he was between the ages of 12 and 15 when it happened but I do recall a Garda saying to me, something along the lines of, "you know right from wrong at that age" and she also mentioned something about a change in law in the 90s, which was relevant to this matter. I'm waiting to speak to the investigating garda again and I'm going to ask her about this. I can't help but have my mind going 100mph in the meantime though.

I don't even know why I'm posting this update, I'm not sure if anyone finds this thread particularly helpful or anything. It's helpful to get everything out of my head though and I have found the replies here helpful while I try to process things.

blueberrypie

Stay strong.

nikkibikki

erica74 wrote:

I don't even know why I'm posting this update, I'm not sure if anyone finds this thread particularly helpful or anything. It's helpful to get everything out of my head though and I have found the replies here helpful while I try to process things.

As long as it is helpful to you, keep it up. Don't feel compelled to.

You are doing amazing.

.......

You are doing great. Well done you.

Try not to worry too much about the things your father is saying. I doubt all of this is as much a surprise to him as you might think. He is hearing all sides of everything right now. So part of what he is saying is just him trying to process things, and part of it is probably him just wanting it all to go away. Its an unfortunate response and it really doesnt help you at all, but his musings on whether or not things will be in the papers is just him worrying about his own skin.

ChrissieH

Hi Erica,

I've just read this thread for the first time as I'm new to the forum but I wanted to say thanks so much for your posts and updates, and that I really think you're amazing for going to the Gardai. I know someone in a similar situation and I just wish with all my heart that they would take action too, of any description, rather than try to bury it and therefore allow it to poison everything in their lives.

Due to my education, I've done a lot of research on incest and it's shockingly common, people in the RCCs would be better qualified to make a statement on just how common it is, but from what I could gather, it's one of the more prevalent incidences of CSA and it's horrifying to think that there are parents out there who don't take a stand when they do discover that one of their children is abusing another. I'm so sorry for you that your mother has taken your brother's side - again, that's something that I witnessed with my friend, it's beyond belief and I will never understand it but just to say that for your Dad to ask you those questions that saddened you is probably just a reflection of the shock he's feeling, and unfortunately, the default reaction for a lot of people in this country, for whom "scandal" is the ultimate fear.
Hopefully once he's had a bit of time to digest what he's learned, he might change his points of view on things. You've had the benefit of your therapy to help you decide how you want to deal with things, whereas he's only just found out what awful things were happening under his own roof, so he's probably going to go through lots of different emotions from guilt to anger. I'm sure your brother tried to minimise things when he spoke to your Dad about it all, so I'm sure your Dad might be a tiny bit misled as to exactly what happened, which could also explain his reaction.

I would love to read any more updates on this, it's something I'm really passionate about and I'm horrified to hear about the issues with Tusla - in my line of work, I am indirectly involved with people who may need to disclose to Tusla, and now I would feel completely uncomfortable advising anyone to go to them.
The Gardai are fantastic, on the other hand. I've always found them to be absolutely outstanding in the level of work they put into peoples' cases, but unfortunately the legal system doesn't usually back them up, as we saw with that ignorant comment in the Cork rape trial this week.

The very best wishes to you and please do update us more.

chickenlittle

Hi Erica,

Hope you’re doing okay. Well done on being so strong making a complaint. You’re a survivor. Take care.

erica74

Thanks everyone for the replies. I really appreciate them. What a day.

Jeff2

erica74 wrote: »

Thanks everyone for the replies. I really appreciate them. What a day.

Fair play to you to sort this but if I were you I'd delete the info about where your mother works and what day she is off work.

That's just my opinion.

erica74

Jeff2 wrote: »

Fair play to you to sort this but if I were you I'd delete the info about where your mother works and what day she is off work.

That's just my opinion.

Why?