Can anyone advise on Tusla - Update: now with the Gardai

erica74

Hi all, I've posted a number of times in here about my childhood, I was sexually abused by my brother and grew up in an otherwise abusive house, my mother physically, mentally and emotionally abused me and my father was an alcoholic, apart from being absent, he was actually alright. My sister was also sexually abused by our brother.

I started counselling in September of last year and eventually made my official report to Tusla through the Rape Crisis Centre where I go for counselling. My sister made her report about 3 months before I made mine.
I received one response to that report seeking further information which I don't have (contact numbers, addresses, work information) to which I replied, again through the RCC, that I don't have that information and I have heard nothing since.
I feel extremely frustrated and angry about the Tusla process. Can anyone provide any insight at all into any sort of timeline?

Just to give you an idea on my brother's situation now, he has 2 teenage daughters and is married, my sister told his wife about the abuse last year, however, the whole family are still living together as normal (going on a family holiday later this month), the 2 daughters know nothing about the abuse, which suggests to me that they haven't been questioned, even by their own mother, about whether they were abused in any way.
So basically, things are looking good for my brother, off living his life, everything swept under the carpet.
It would appear that nobody in Tusla has contacted my brother nor his wife about their daughters. Surely it can't be right that 2 separate reports were made to them, one almost a year ago, and no action has been taken in order to investigate or protect the 2 children still living in a house with my brother.

My sister and I told our mother last year and she has pretty much disowned us, continues to have a relationship with our brother and his family (my brother knows that my mother knows and my mother knows that my sister confronted our brother through lots of texts) and is basically letting on to the extended family, including my dad, that she has no idea why we're all not speaking.
As far as I know, my dad doesn't know anything about it all, I haven't told him and my sister hasn't told him.
There are 2 reasons for this. My dad is an alcoholic and, while he has reduced his drinking a lot, now just drinking on the weekend and he has been running his own business for 15 years, we have a fear that, if he finds out, he will just drink himself into the ground. The second reason is that I have a genuine fear that he would kill my brother and, while I hate him, I wouldn't like my dad to go to prison for killing him, he's not worth it.

So, does anyone have any information or advice on Tusla? I am so angry that this organisation have been formed and promoted by the government but they seem to be doing absolutely nothing.

nikkibikki

Does your sister not have the information required? She was texting him.

I don't know anything about the process, sorry. You are naturally worried about your nieces.

erica74

nikkibikki wrote: »

Does your sister not have the information required? She was texting him.

I don't know anything about the process, sorry. You are naturally worried about your nieces.

No, my sister doesn't have any additional information on Tusla.

nikkibikki

erica74 wrote:

I received one response to that report seeking further information which I don't have (contact numbers, addresses, work information) to which I replied, again through the RCC, that I don't have that information and I have heard nothing since.

Maybe I am picking this up wrong. Tusla are looking for his contact info and whereabouts.

You don't have it. But you mentioned your sister was texting him. She must have his number?

Gatling

Unfortunately it's all a waiting game and outside of your actual complaint to tusla ,they won't share anything else with you about your brother and family ,
For all you know they sent a social worker and or others to speak with his family ,
Have the Guards being informed at all about the past cases ,
haven't seen your other threads

erica74

nikkibikki wrote: »

Maybe I am picking this up wrong. Tusla are looking for his contact info and whereabouts.

You don't have it. But you mentioned your sister was texting him. She must have his number?

It's not just his phone number that they are looking for, sorry, I didn't elaborate on that. There's a lot of different information they want that neither me nor my sister has.

erica74

Gatling wrote: »

Unfortunately it's all a waiting game and outside of your actual complaint to tusla ,they won't share anything else with you about your brother and family ,
For all you know they sent a social worker and or others to speak with his family ,
Have the Guards being informed at all about the past cases ,
haven't seen your other threads

They haven't, I know they haven't.
I haven't gotten the gardai involved as I thought Tusla would be on the ball and start investigating straight away. I'm mulling over whether to involve the gardai, it's a big step and I need time on it.

LonelyBoy84

erica74 wrote: »

They haven't, I know they haven't.
I haven't gotten the gardai involved as I thought Tusla would be on the ball and start investigating straight away. I'm mulling over whether to involve the gardai, it's a big step and I need time on it.

What age were you/your brother at the time?

Big Bag of Chips

It is a long and slow process. Just because you make an allegation, doesn't mean that he will be removed from the house, or his children taken away. There has to be a process, and one which will most likely end up in court, eventually. The speed (or lack of) of the process just goes to highlight 1 - how thorough the investigation will be, and 2 - the huge workload that Tusla have.

Just to give you an idea, a local man was recently convicted of raping his younger sister over a period of 8 years, going back over 30 years ago. She made her first complaint in 2015. It was in court in April. The man has not yet been sentenced, a date is set for August, I think. In the meantime he is back in the family home, with his wife and 4 children, getting his affairs in order.

It is an horrendous situation for the whole family, and extended family. I honestly do not know what is going through his wife's head. Her life as she knew it has been ripped from under her. She is going to have to explain to her children what happened, and why their dad is going to prison.

So, almost a year after making a report is still very early days. To be honest, if you have a contact in the RCC that is probably your best bet for guidance, and answers and liaising with Tusla. They deal with this every day, unfortunately. They will know the procedure.

Owryan

Normal process is they acknowledge your referral, usually by letter and in some cases a phonecall.

The referral is assessed as to level of seriousness and can go to a social worker for investigation or might end up on a waiting list. It might also be closed off. Depending on the area there may be a shortage of social workers.

After that it's up to the SW, they usually contact the person who was reported, tell them they have a referral and try arrange a meeting.

If yours is a historical allegation, there might be a different process for contact but that's usually how it goes.

Don't know what level of feedback is given to the person who made the complaint but from experience it was usually a letter explaining the end result.

But others might have a better idea.

erica74

LonelyBoy84 wrote: »

What age were you/your brother at the time?

It started when I was around 6 and continued until I was around 9, my brother is 6 years older than me.

erica74

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

It is a long and slow process. Just because you make an allegation, doesn't mean that he will be removed from the house, or his children taken away. There has to be a process, and one which will most likely end up in court, eventually. The speed (or lack of) of the process just goes to highlight 1 - how thorough the investigation will be, and 2 - the huge workload that Tusla have.

Just to give you an idea, a local man was recently convicted of raping his younger sister over a period of 8 years, going back over 30 years ago. She made her first complaint in 2015. It was in court in April. The man has not yet been sentenced, a date is set for August, I think. In the meantime he is back in the family home, with his wife and 4 children, getting his affairs in order.

It is an horrendous situation for the whole family, and extended family. I honestly do not know what is going through his wife's head. Her life as she knew it has been ripped from under her. She is going to have to explain to her children what happened, and why their dad is going to prison.

So, almost a year after making a report is still very early days. To be honest, if you have a contact in the RCC that is probably your best bet for guidance, and answers and liaising with Tusla. They deal with this every day, unfortunately. They will know the procedure.

I do have a counseller, even the manager of the RCC I go to is so helpful and nice but, I suppose, I just want more information and as much information as I can get because I'm finding it all very frustrating.
I just don't understand how my brother's wife is still living with him with their 2 daughters and carrying on with normal life.

I know it's unlikely I'll find all the answers I want and need, particularly on here, but I just need to let some thoughts out of my head before it explodes.

Gatling

erica74 wrote: »

I just don't understand how my brother's wife is still living with him with their 2 daughters and carrying on with normal life.

What were you hoping would happen ,

Bear in mind he might not have committed any other abuse since he was essentially a child himself ,they have a marriage and family there is multiple scenarios involved here which nobody on here can account for .

As above your involved in a very long process

erica74

Gatling wrote: »

What were you hoping would happen ,

Bear in mind he might not have committed any other abuse since he was essentially a child himself ,they have a marriage and family there is multiple scenarios involved here which nobody on here can account for .

As above your involved in a very long process

I don't know.

Big Bag of Chips

Because she may not ever have seen that side to him. She may not know what to believe. She may not know are you being malicious, or is he, the father of her children really capable of abuse. Marriages and relationships are complex. She has built a life, a family, a home with him. Don't for a second think she is just getting on with life as normal.

My friend has zero contact with her husband's family. They make some of the toxic families mentioned here look like the Von Trapps. His sister accused him of abusing her as a child.

She also accused her father, multiple cousins, neighbours and work colleagues. All false allegations. The girl is vicious, and dangerous. He didn't want her having unlimited, unsupervised access to her children, so she told him she'd 'get him' and make sure he never saw his children again.

I must stress, there is not a grain of truth in any of her allegations.

And my friend still lives with her husband and 2 children.

I understand your frustration, and your annoyance, and your upset. But... It has been years. His children are now teenagers. I don't mean there is no rush in investigating it, but it would not be seen as "urgent". Just because you made your report does not mean that it all gets investigated and wrapped up in a few months. It will come. It will be investigated. But it will take time. There are many many layers to the investigation.

You genuinely cannot know what has been said, or is being investigated with him. Especially if you have zero contact and don't even know where he is. There will be lots going on that you won't be aware of.

erica74

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

Because she may not ever have seen that side to him. She may not know what to believe. She may not know are you being malicious, or is he, the father of her children really capable of abuse. Marriages and relationships are complex. She has built a life, a family, a home with him. Don't for a second think she is just getting on with life as normal.

My friend has zero contact with her husband's family. They make some of the toxic families mentioned here look like the Von Trapps. His sister accused him of abusing her as a child.

She also accused her father, multiple cousins, neighbours and work colleagues. All false allegations. The girl is vicious, and dangerous. He didn't want her having unlimited, unsupervised access to her children, so she told him she'd 'get him' and make sure he never saw his children again.

I must stress, there is not a grain of truth in any of her allegations.

And my friend still lives with her husband and 2 children.

I understand your frustration, and your annoyance, and your upset. But... It has been years. His children are now teenagers. I don't mean there is no rush in investigating it, but it would not be seen as "urgent". Just because you made your report does not mean that it all gets investigated and wrapped up in a few months. It will come. It will be investigated. But it will take time. There are many many layers to the investigation.

You genuinely cannot know what has been said, or is being investigated with him. Especially if you have zero contact and don't even know where he is. There will be lots going on that you won't be aware of.

My sister has some contact with one of our nieces and no contact has been made by Tusla with the family. I didn't think the investigation which affects me would be quick but, I did expect, because there are 2 girls in the house, that Tusla would have made some contact by now, in order to ensure the safety of my brother's 2 daughters.

I understand that I won't find all the answers, I'm really just thinking "out loud".

Big Bag of Chips

Just because your sister hadn't been told by your niece doesn't mean things haven't happened. It doesn't mean he hasn't been questioned. It's a very difficult process and the whole basis of the children first policy is people are told things on a "need to know" basis.

I hope you're ok. I can't even imagine your pain. But keep talking to the RCC. Ask the questions. They'll explain it as best they can.

Steviesol

Awful story. I know first hand that the Irish legal system and all who report to them let victims like yourelves down.

Child abuse is something that is still happening today in Ireland, it may not be the church, but it goes right up to the very top. Therefore heels are dragged, again, I know this first hand.


I wish you all the best, my advise to you is to keep making phone calls and do not give up.

erica74

Thanks for all of the replies everyone.

nikkibikki

erica74 wrote:

I know it's unlikely I'll find all the answers I want and need, particularly on here, but I just need to let some thoughts out of my head before it explodes.

If you find it helpful getting it all out, keep doing it. We may not have the answers but we can listen.

WIZWEB

OP just to inform you that as your brother was also legally a child at the time and hasn't likely come to the attention of Tusla since this will be a slow process. Because of his age at the time too the outcome may not be what you want either. This in no way mutigates your experience. However the vast majority of abusers start in their youth so an investigation is warranted to ensure the safety of other children.

FizzleSticks

I'm surprised to see so many people saying it's a slow process, I've witnessed two cases where slow isn't the issue - avoidance and then nothing being done is the issue. I need to throw my two cents in here of what I have seen first hand, but OP you need to look after yourself and manage your expectations of what you want out of this process because the agency is not fit for purpose.

Skibunny77

Op, Tusla have been critiqued recently in the press for their handling of retrospective abuse allegations - you are absolutely right to be frustrated. Tusla also have a mandatory obligation to contact the gardai if they believe a crime has taken place. My suggestions
- write to the principal social worker in the area requesting an urgent update. Advise him/her that you will be submitting a formal complaint within 14 days.
- if you don't hear anything, contact Tusla Head office and request their complaints procedure - use it.
- contact the gardai yourself.
Good luck.

Big Bag of Chips

Skibunny77 makes a good point, if you feel strong enough to do it, and if it is something you want to do, you can go to the gardaí yourself. They would most likely have a designated garda for cases like this. They should have a liaison person then who can act as your point of contact and might be better placed to get information for you.

You can always report any crime yourself you don't have to wait for Tusla.

blueberrypie

In my line of work I deal with Tulsa every now and then. They are snowed under with cases. What is deemed to be a priority/urgent to you and I is not a priority in Tulsa's eyes as they have more urgent and serious cases to deal with. As you have reported abuse from years ago and the abuse has stopped presently your case is in the pile. They have a system in place where they usually acknowledge your concern and then they follow up with their report. I have had to wait 3 months for a Tulsa referral to be investigated and I received 1 line of a response to say they are no longer concerned, yet I am very concerned about the individual. Stay strong.

lukesmom

Tusla are the most corrupt and unfit for purpose organisation we have ever had in our country. Their rules, regulations, policies and procedures are so stringent and mind numbingly time wasting, that most of their social workers suffer burn out or huge job dissatisfaction. This means that the turnover of staff at Tusla occurs at a very fast rate. New social workers assigned to cases and have to familiarise themselves all over again. This causes frustration among their service users or victims as I would often call them. Their child protection service is highly toxic and they seem to operate a one size fits all scenario for every family. If I was you I would make it my business to HOUND them day in and day out until you get some kind of satisfactory response.

erica74

Thanks for the additional replies everyone. I have counselling on Thursdays so I'm home now mulling it over and this thread popped into my head.

So, my counsellor and the lady who runs the RCC in my area encouraged me to write a letter or email (at least I'd have a record of it then) to the social worker handling the case (my brother still lives in the county where the abuse took place but I no longer do) and ask for an update. They can't do this for me because they are technically external to the matter and it is confidential. My sister, after she made her report to Tusla last year, received a reply letter which contained an email address so I'm going to use that email address and see if there's any update.

Unfortunately, the lady who runs the RCC said that Tusla, social workers, the HSE, counsellors, RCCs etc are all extremely frustrated by the reporting process. The rules that are in place have been under review for over 2 years apparently and that has led to issues in the reporting process and the entire function of Tusla. It is very frustrating for everyone involved, particularly those reporting abuse and those who are actually trying to help.

My next step is that I think I want to speak to my local vulnerable persons unit of the gardai and just make some enquiries initially anyway and I also want to email the social worker.

Thanks to everyone who has contributed. This whole process is very overwhelming and frustrating and frightening so I really do appreciate the advice and support.

LegacyUser

Hi OP,
Just a bit of info as I used to work for Tusla. Not in order of importance just how it comes to mind.
1. We could never respond by email with confidential information. Couldn't even email the guards.
2. The response will be entirely dependent on resources which is also dependent on area. Some areas have Social Workers working entirely on retrospective disclosures others have a Duty Team only.
3. Duty Teams in poorly resourced areas are constantly fire fighting and have to respond to urgent cases. For context on my busiest week I had several emergency cases come in- non accidental injury to a baby, suspected CFA (child sex abuse) from a family fleeing another jurisdiction, a number of serious mental health concerns of various mothers (where there was risk to unborn children as well as emotional risk of harm) and then several lesser priority cases that also needed attention- which included neglect, physical and emotional. I was in court (report required), organising information for gardai (report required) organising medical professionals and the lead in several child protection case conferences (report required for all of them). I was in contact with Social Work in hospitals and other jurisdictions. I placed children in care- I went to their home to get them clothes before doing so. I expained to the kids why they were in care, most kids are well aware of the problems in their home so you'd be surprised how many are prepared for it/ are even relieved. I was in contact with schools, GPs, health nurses, community care staff. I was often in by 8 and I often left after 10. The paperwork is immense and I had to maintain stats- there are timeframes for assessments and I had to complete more forms to explain why I didn't get to complete the other forms.
4. I often had weeks like that.
5. Team Leader and Principal make decisions about allocating cases- go directly to them. Basic grade SW (what I was) have no say in allocation. We can argue your case for you but ultimately they decide. It is better to go to the people who can decide. If it was me? I'd also go to area manager as they hold ultimate responsibility.
6. There should be an automatic report to Gardai of suspected abuse. Ask if this has happened.
7. This all requires a lot from you and I am truly sorry that having built yourself up to make the disclosure that you are left to follow up on so much. Its crap, totally crap. People working there are not happy with it either.
8. Put everything in writing. Keep copies.
9. Complain through the complaints procedure if needed.
10. Complain through hiqa if needed.
11. All of the above is not to make you feel discouraged or that what has happened to you is not important. It is. It matters. I wish it was better.

erica74

Usedtoworkfortusla wrote: »

7. This all requires a lot from you and I am truly sorry that having built yourself up to make the disclosure that you are left to follow up on so much. Its crap, totally crap. People working there are not happy with it either.
8. Put everything in writing. Keep copies.
9. Complain through the complaints procedure if needed.
10. Complain through hiqa if needed.
11. All of the above is not to make you feel discouraged or that what has happened to you is not important. It is. It matters. I wish it was better.

Thanks very much for the information, I really appreciate it.
You're right, there does seem to be a lot of running around to do. I thought the biggest thing would be the actual disclosure and the rest would just fall into place.
I sent the 2 emails on 12 July so I'm going to give them both a fair opportunity to respond first and then move towards the complaints procedure.

I totally understand that you're fire fighting, I expect that, I think everyone expects lots of fire fighting and obviously that is the priority. It's just a pity that there isn't a separate, dedicated retrospective section, rather than pulling from the already overstretched resources who are trying to firefight.

LegacyUser

erica74 wrote: »

It's just a pity that there isn't a separate, dedicated retrospective section.

There is but not in every area unfortunately.
Best of luck OP I hope you get answers.

erica74

Usedtoworkfortusla wrote: »

There is but not in every area unfortunately.
Best of luck OP I hope you get answers.

Sorry, that's what I meant, it's a pity there isn't a separate section in every area.
Thanks very much for taking the time to respond to my thread, I appreciate it.