Waterford developments

Harry Palmr

Nothing has changed is the classic reaction to lots of small things changing. Incremental development is rarely remembered yet any one item could be a fierce talking point at the time!

Agree about Waterside. It's screaming out to be something other than a good value car park.

azimuth17

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Nothing has changed is the classic reaction to lots of small things changing. Incremental development is rarely remembered yet any one item could be a fierce talking point at the time!

Agree about Waterside. It's screaming out to be something other than a good value car park.

Gasworks being a case in point of something that changed. Used to be a vile smelling site, sitting on massive pollution. Some 25,000 tons excavated and exported for incineration to render the site safe. Would be a wonderful, office, hotel or good apartment site.

Max Powers

hardybuck wrote: »

I think Waterford planners can be accused of some fairly poor strategy over the last 30 odd years. Allowing so many houses to be built out on the Dunmore Road without a secondary school - that sort of thing.

However you also need people (i.e. you and me) who are willing to take on projects and invest money - be it in commercial ventures or in private developments. It seems as though places like Kings Channel and Ballinamona became the very pinnacle of Waterford architecture over the last 20 years. My eyes bleed every time I head out there.

If planners stopped allowing so many developments in places like Knockboy we might actually have some urban redevelopment and imaginative use of existing spaces. I think this is what Waterford is crying out for.

How cool would it be to see the old Gasworks site developed in the Waterside? That'd be a huge shot in the arm to Parnell Street and Johnstown. What about a mixed used development in the old Waterford Stanley site in Bilberry - that'd clean up the area around Bilberry and O'Connell St. You aren't going to pursue those projects if you can throw more houses into an empty field out in Knockboy.

The penny seems to have dropped with the Council, as the following link from November would suggest, hopefully it's not just hot air: https://waterford-news.ie/2020/11/18/new-plans-to-transform-city-centre/

A couple problems with that...Ask your average person do you want to live on dunmore road or some imagined house in waterside/bilberry, we all know the answer.As for secondary school on dunmore road side, absolutely would be a runner but not much council can do about that, more dept of education and govt. It is amazing some People's fascination or chip on their shoulder with dunmore road, do some people think it's some sort of wannabe beverly hills, it ain't, yet we see it time and again on here with people who have some sort of jealousy about the place whether it be having an issue with houses in kings channel or ardkeen stores shop. The real issue of unbalanced development isn't on the dunmore road, it's in ferrybank, just look at the map, a boundary move would solve this in long term. if we are Saying dunmore road is over developed then the cork road, cleaboy road, paddy browns road is over developed also. Personally I don't think they are, no doubt they need more transport and education there, maybe the council could do more on the transport side of things, I see in local paper they looking at improving roundabout at farronshoneen mainly for bikes and pedestrians, (badly needed), said in article, room Williamstown road for bus lane and bike lane but I'm guessing not the money.

hardybuck

Max Powers wrote: »

A couple problems with that...Ask your average person do you want to live on dunmore road or some imagined house in waterside/bilberry, we all know the answer.As for secondary school on dunmore road side, absolutely would be a runner but not much council can do about that, more dept of education and govt. It is amazing some People's fascination or chip on their shoulder with dunmore road, do some people think it's some sort of wannabe beverly hills, it ain't, yet we see it time and again on here with people who have some sort of jealousy about the place whether it be having an issue with houses in kings channel or ardkeen stores shop. The real issue of unbalanced development isn't on the dunmore road, it's in ferrybank, just look at the map, a boundary move would solve this in long term. if we are Saying dunmore road is over developed then the cork road, cleaboy road, paddy browns road is over developed also. Personally I don't think they are, no doubt they need more transport and education there, maybe the council could do more on the transport side of things, I see in local paper they looking at improving roundabout at farronshoneen mainly for bikes and pedestrians, (badly needed), said in article, room Williamstown road for bus lane and bike lane but I'm guessing not the money.

For the record I grew up in an area perceived (by others) to be superior to the Dunmore Road. No jealousy there but it's just a classic example of lobbing in basically a new town into an area with no services - some of which came afterwards. It was basically a country road in 1990.

Your post is seriously contradictory. You make the case that they've no influence over how many houses they allow planning for in an area without proper services (e.g schools), but then you mention something about Kilkenny in the same breath.

Anyway my post wasn't intended to drag this thread into another moan fest. I just feel like the Council need to prioritise urban redevelopment and infill rather than continuing to allow for urban sprawl.

curmudgeonly

hardybuck wrote: »

For the record I grew up in an area perceived (by others) to be superior to the Dunmore Road. No jealousy there but it's just a classic example of lobbing in basically a new town into an area with no services - some of which came afterwards. It was basically a country road in 1990.

Your post is seriously contradictory. You make the case that they've no influence over how many houses they allow planning for in an area without proper services (e.g schools), but then you mention something about Kilkenny in the same breath.

Anyway my post wasn't intended to drag this thread isn't intended to descend into another moan fest. I just feel like the Council need to prioritise urban redevelopment and infill rather than continuing to allow for urban sprawl.

Can't disagree and further to that, if I was a young couple looking to start a home I would be definitely looking at the top of the town, somewhere like Leamy street. A very quite settled area with a nice doer upper available sub 100k , huge potential IMO

twistables

curmudgeonly wrote: »

Can't disagree and further to that, if I was a young couple looking to start a home I would be definitely looking at the top of the town, somewhere like Leamy street. A very quite settled area with a nice doer upper available sub 100k , huge potential IMO

Good luck with the sale😉

Gavlor

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Nothing has changed is the classic reaction to lots of small things changing. Incremental development is rarely remembered yet any one item could be a fierce talking point at the time!

Agree about Waterside. It's screaming out to be something other than a good value car park.

Unfortunately being happy with small things changing is a classic indication of the small mindedness and lack of ambition that has blighted Waterford for years!

That said, things like the greenway have been a huge success but then when you compare our city centre to that of any other city in Ireland we’re miles behind.

Max Powers

hardybuck wrote: »

For the record I grew up in an area perceived (by others) to be superior to the Dunmore Road. No jealousy there but it's just a classic example of lobbing in basically a new town into an area with no services - some of which came afterwards. It was basically a country road in 1990.

Your post is seriously contradictory. You make the case that they've no influence over how many houses they allow planning for in an area without proper services (e.g schools), but then you mention something about Kilkenny in the same breath.

Anyway my post wasn't intended to drag this thread into another moan fest. I just feel like the Council need to prioritise urban redevelopment and infill rather than continuing to allow for urban sprawl.

When has this country ever put in services before houses, with the exception of Adamstown in Dublin I can't think of any. I never mentioned kk BTW. I never said they have no influence over planning for housing, that clearly not the case, I did say they can't put in secondary schools where they might be needed.plus, if the council stopped any further housing along dunmore road years ago, what way would the housing supply be now, maybe developers would build in ferrybank instead or waterside, or maybe not taking into account costs of land etc.if they built housing in waterside, would the likes of young couples want to live there, possibly and possibly not, if it has the nice little garden and 3 bed semi D, yeah, why not, if it's not the 3 bed semi, answer probably no.
Totally agree, urban infill etc but if dunmore road is urban sprawl, so is cleaboy road, etc. This is not easy to solve, saying it's the councils fault so many houses on dunmore road is not telling half the story.

hardybuck

Max Powers wrote: »

When has this country ever put in services before houses, with the exception of Adamstown in Dublin I can't think of any. I never mentioned kk BTW. I never said they have no influence over planning for housing, that clearly not the case, I did say they can't put in secondary schools where they might be needed.plus, if the council stopped any further housing along dunmore road years ago, what way would the housing supply be now, maybe developers would build in ferrybank instead or waterside, or maybe not taking into account costs of land etc.if they built housing in waterside, would the likes of young couples want to live there, possibly and possibly not, if it has the nice little garden and 3 bed semi D, yeah, why not, if it's not the 3 bed semi, answer probably no.
Totally agree, urban infill etc but if dunmore road is urban sprawl, so is cleaboy road, etc. This is not easy to solve, saying it's the councils fault so many houses on dunmore road is not telling half the story.

While there are National Planning Frameworks etc., the Council will decide on the zoning of land, draw up development plans and make planning decisions that are in adherence with those plans.

So for example, houses couldn't be built on those DLS playing fields on the Dunmore Road if the land wasn't zoned for housing. In the end Grange Cove was built on it, Waterford allowed that, and the area was left without any GAA or soccer club, or any playing pitches for that matter.

Dublin inherited a lot of good infrastructure that the British put in place, like rail to the coastal areas and excellent public parks in built up areas. However they've got a strategy which looks to create 15 minute neighbourhoods wherever possible (bar some terrible mistakes like Ballymun), with facilities like schools and shops within a 15 minute walk or cycle.

There is a plan for several thousand homes in Cherrywood, and they're currently putting in place the public parks, cycle paths, greenways, sports clubs and landscaping before building the houses, primary and secondary schools and new town center.

For arguments sake, if you lived in Earlscourt your teenage daughter would be a 49 minute walk to her nearest secondary school. Your teenage son would be a 38 minute walk to his nearest secondary school. You have one GAA club a 40 minute walk away, and a rugby club a 20 minute walk away. You can see why the car is king in Waterford.

Getting this back on track, I hope the next local development plan seeks to address many of these challenges. There are huge opportunities for infill in Waterford that should be prioritised.

bullpost

Possibly stupid question , but should/could there be more residential developments between Waterford and Tramore.

In theory lots of land and great road already in place. I know marshy land on Waterford side but further out?

hardybuck

bullpost wrote: »

Possibly stupid question , but should/could there be more residential developments between Waterford and Tramore.

In theory lots of land and great road already in place. I know marshy land on Waterford side but further out?

I think it's a fair question. I personally don't think so in the next ten years as I don't think there's a current need, but maybe in the longer term.

smellyoldboot

bullpost wrote: »

Possibly stupid question , but should/could there be more residential developments between Waterford and Tramore.

In theory lots of land and great road already in place. I know marshy land on Waterford side but further out?

It seems the most natural area to allow such sprawl to develop, especially given the city populations endearment with Tramore, would be a big selling point to be only a few minutes from the beach yet the same few minutes from town, hospital , WIT, IDA etc. I know some of the land is a bit boggy but that's been overcome before.

Harry Palmr

Ribbon development is the gombeen answer to housebuilding It would be madness to create another small town by stealth between Waterford and Tramore.

There is a great fecking land bank in west of City beyond Carrickphierish.

new92

smellyoldboot wrote: »

I know some of the land is a bit boggy but that's been overcome before.

I hope this means incorporation of bogs into protected parkland, ie fenor bog, and not drained and macadamed into housing sprawl.

The land between Tramore and Waterford has a good frame to work by for future development.
It has numerous bogs(up by killure, kilbarry and carriglong come to mind) which are of significant value if we could learn how to develop around them positively, it has some lovely estate land, at ballinamona, which could also be a future large city park, thinking of Londons great parks.

The old disused railway to Tramore will be the perfect corridor for pedestrians. And possibly light rail in the future.

smellyoldboot

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Ribbon development is the gombeen answer to housebuilding It would be madness to create another small town by stealth between Waterford and Tramore.

There is a great fecking land bank in west of City beyond Carrickphierish.

It's no man's land though. Would be the epitome of a ghost estate. I'd be on the potential Tramore Road development like a ferret ups leg but you couldn't pay me to move out beyond Carrickpherish tbh.

Harry Palmr

Lads (and lassies) you can forget this as a line of thinking. It would never be allowed as it goes against literally every aspect of sustainable based urban planning.

smellyoldboot

new92 wrote: »

I hope this means incorporation of bogs into protected parkland, ie fenor bog, and not drained and macadamed into housing sprawl.

The land between Tramore and Waterford has a good frame to work by for future development.
It has numerous bogs(up by killure, kilbarry and carriglong come to mind) which are of significant value if we could learn how to develop around them positively, it has some lovely estate land, at ballinamona, which could also be a future large city park, thinking of Londons great parks.

The old disused railway to Tramore will be the perfect corridor for pedestrians. And possibly light rail in the future.

Drained and macadamed of course. Would be a great spot for it too as long as the council could be kept away from it and not turn it into another knackeragua.

Wanderer78

smellyoldboot wrote: »

Drained and macadamed of course. Would be a great spot for it too as long as the council could be kept away from it and not turn it into another knackeragua.

where should we put the social and 'affordable' houses?

smellyoldboot

Wanderer78 wrote: »

where should we put the social and 'affordable' houses?

Out beyond Carrickpherish sounds good.

Wanderer78

smellyoldboot wrote: »

Out beyond Carrickpherish sounds good.

dont think you could put a prison out there, at this stage

Harry Palmr

Beyond Carrickpherish is of course a large area - around the time of the 2008 bust there was a development plan for the western City with a potential population of 20k.

Johnboy1951

new92 wrote: »

The old disused railway to Tramore will be the perfect corridor for pedestrians. And possibly light rail in the future.

I would like to see it developed somewhat like the greenway .......

Oscar Madison

The City Council are apparently purchasing vacant properties in the city and

converting them in to apartments. One is currently being developed on Patrick Street.

I only hope that the city won't turn into one joint slum!

Wanderer78

Oscar Madison wrote:

I only hope that the city won't turn into one joint slum!

We currently desperately need them, most of our cities do

smellyoldboot

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I would like to see it developed somewhat like the greenway .......

Or something useful, like an urbanised corridor between Waterford and Tramore linked by a functional light rail system. Wouldn't have to worry about boundary extensions to grow weirdly North of the city creating more suburbs that will never work properly without at least 2 more traffic capable river crossings.

Mad Peggy

hi all i looked through a lot of the pages but alot of things you are saying didn't happen

-MP

bullpost

smellyoldboot wrote: »

Or something useful, like an urbanised corridor between Waterford and Tramore linked by a functional light rail system. Wouldn't have to worry about boundary extensions to grow weirdly North of the city creating more suburbs that will never work properly without at least 2 more traffic capable river crossings.

Yep that was my thinking when I asked original question. However things are never that simple

Harry Palmr

Waterford is on eco-eye (RTE1) this evening, programme is about Ireland 2040, spacial hubs etc. I expect it'll deal with us in about 30 seconds as is the way of RTE but you never know.

SeanieW1977

914 wrote: »

Don't think michael street is due to start till some time after August.

As for the ard ri, once the north quays is up and running I'd be very surprised if that wasn't developed

It’s the once the NQ is up and running concerns me. It’s 5 years now and not a brick laid.

Not good.

Does anyone know what the actual story is?

Include Michael street & this kilbarry development in that comment! We seem to have a lot of eggs in one basket (case!)

Wanderer78

SeanieW1977 wrote:

Not good.

Plenty of money being made on that one already, I'd imagine land and property speculation has sky rocketed in the region since announcements, whereby everyone wins, apparently!