Housing crisis

emilymemily

Is there anyway of solving it? whats causing it? Looks like its a sign of another financial crash yet no body seems that bothered to fix it.

AllForIt

It's caused by the lack of rainfall. The houses just won't grow without any water.

The Backwards Man

Once upon a time I was falling in love, now there's only light in the dark

AllForIt

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Once upon a time I was falling in love, now there's only light in the dark

Noting more to say, total eclipse of the building art.

Allinall

There’s a lack of concrete evidence.

RobbingBandit

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Once upon a time I was falling in love, now there's only light in the dark

Nothing I can do except let out a big durty fart

frag420

RobbingBandit wrote: »

Nothing I can do except let out a big durty fart

Ah!!! Have you been huffing and puffing and blowing the houses down?

Bob Harris

Why isn't it called an apartment crisis? Or a high-rise flat crisis?

RobbingBandit

Theys gone with the wind

van_beano

Bob Harris wrote: »

Why isn't it called an apartment crisis? Or a high-rise flat crisis?

...or a condominium crisis :cool:

Bob Harris

van_beano wrote: »

...or a condominium crisis :cool:

..or a mews...people need more mews (not to be confused with Muse - no-one needs more Muse)

CPTM

When an economy recovers, cities recover first. When signs of life appeared, everyone flocked there to find jobs.

But to play devil's advocate - doesn't the government still have a massive stake in one of the biggest mortgage lenders in the country(AIB); a mortgage lender with many loans in arrears? Doesn't it make sense to bring the value of those struggling assets up so that the customer can clear the heavy debt before the government has to??

The Transport crisis is (or will be) the next thing as soon as they fix the housing crisis. They'll build the houses and put on extra bus routes but this city is already coming to a standstill with trains and buses full after the first few stations.

Cina

Maybe if Irish people didn't have such an elitist view when it comes to owning a house and would actually be happy with apartments, like most countries are, then there wouldn't be a crisis. Anything that is being built in Dublin is usually some massive housing estate that's just a complete waste of valuable land.

Considering the population of Dublin is predicted to grow by about 500,000 in the next 30 years then I don't see any of this getting solved anytime soon unless there's actually a proper effort put into building high-rise apartments.

Wanderer78

CPTM wrote:

But to play devil's advocate - doesn't the government still have a massive stake in one of the biggest mortgage lenders in the country(AIB); a mortgage lender with many loans in arrears? Doesn't it make sense to bring the value of those struggling assets up so that the customer can clear the heavy debt before the government has to??

Would helping to raise those asset prices cause problems for those that don't already own homes but would like to, and who truly gains from these rising asset prices, and what role does the financial sector play in all of this?

Berserker

CPTM wrote: »

The Transport crisis is (or will be) the next thing as soon as they fix the housing crisis.

It won't. It'll be health followed by personal debt.

whisky_galore

Because the private sector will only build when it's worth their while.

We can't have social housing as people (usually homeowners) will object as; it's too big or the wrong colour/it'll bring in too many people/it'll bring in too many of the wrong sort of people/it'll affect the price of my home/grrrrr...what's this? People getting free houses!

CPTM

Berserker wrote: »

It won't. It'll be health followed by personal debt.

The problems within the health sector are worse but for a smaller proportion of the population. I would agree that it is more hard-hitting but transport will affect more people on a day to day basis, and so will be picked up by the media before health. For example, there's a huge health crisis as we speak but the media is mostly favouring the housing crisis instead (in terms of coverage).

Edit: Regarding personal debt, struggling mortgages will be fine once the market reaches full employment and the properties hit the previous prices. I think rising wages will help that and also decrease the personal loan and credit card market.

whisky_galore

CPTM wrote: »

The problems within the health sector are worse but for a smaller proportion of the population..

So that's ok then... shur it'll be grand. Only those people who get sick with no health insurance, that must be a small number.

It's not like anyone's going to die or anything...

dotsman

This is a 30-year-old housing crisis.

Back in the late 80's/early 90's Ireland began to modernise rapidly. While much is documented about the massive social changes and improvement in standard of living, a huge change was never planned for, nor is it even being planned for today - the massive increase in urban population and modern living/work patterns.

Dublin was not suitable in 1990, and for it to double in population since then with very little change to the make-up of the city is the reason it is the disaster it is today where people pay several hundred thousand for a poorly built shoe-box that's over an hour's commute from their place of work.

Since 1990, Ireland has not just grown from a population of 3.5 million to 4.8 million (an extra 1.3 million people), there are a huge number of other factors:

• Modern work life tends to be city-based. As jobs (especially high-paying jobs) become more and more skilled and specialised, the more they need to be city-based to ensure a larger pool of potential employees. For example, a Software Company looking to hire 200 people is not going to set up in some town. While there may be 200 unemployed people in the town, there is no chance in hell that there will be 200 highly trained/experienced software developers/testers/managers etc. In the modern era, the purpose of a city is a place for potential employee and potential employer to come together. As a result, internal migration has resulted in a larger proportion of the population moving to our cities
• It's not just an extra 1.3 million people, the average household size has decreased. With the changes to social and financial circumstances, people are having less children, elderly relatives are more likely to live independently (and not with their adult children), parents no longer necessarily live together. As a result, a lot more houses are needed per 1,000 people than in 1990.
• Not only has Dublin been horribly unplanned, but it has become the focus of much of the growth. Cork, Galway, Limerick and Waterford still remain provincial towns compared to a modern city. Had there been even a little strategic thinking, these cities would be twice their current size and with far superior infrastructure. Instead, they are just mini-Dublins.
• Dual-income households are now the norm. Up to the 80's, the average family was only a single (probably low) income. Dual income households could often enjoy a very good standard of living. But, as it became the norm over the past 30 years, the bulk of that doubling of household income has gone towards bidding (be it rent or purchase) for the extremely limited number of suitable housing, resulting in rent/prices rocketing.
• In the absence of strategic urban planning, Dublin has simply sprawled. The more we tack housing estates on to the edge of Dublin, the worse the problem becomes. Cities are supposed to go up, not out. The more the sprawl, the more people need to travel to get to work, but without the density, there is no ability to support decent public transport. Hence Dublin relies pretty much on cars and ****ty bus service. Had Dublin been planned, the city center would hold at least 100,000 people more than it does today and the non-center city an additional 250,000. Not only does this result in more people being walking/cycling distance from their place of work, but it also justifies proper public transport due to the density. Imagine if Dublin had 3 underground train lines and 5 luas lines, all very fast, frequent and reliable, all interconnected, and the majority of the population living/working close to a stop. Car and buses would only be for the few people who live outside the city or have a non-standard route.

How long will their be a housing crisis? I predict at least another generation. it takes many years/decades to see the results of strategic planning. Given that we haven't even started yet, don't expect the situation to resolve itself any time soon.

Does that mean there won't be crashes etc? Of course. House prices don't reflect reality. As demand for the suitable housing drives up prices, people spend a greater percentage of their income on trying to get "somewhere livable". Likewise, the national mantra becomes "house prices/rent increases", and thus both buyer and seller (landlord and renter) settle for higher prices for accommodation that is not in short supply. There is no viable reason why house prices have been increasing in rural areas over the past 30 years. In many cases, the population has been decreasing (or growing an extremely slow pace). It is simply buyers/renters willing to pay large amounts, because they assume that they have to when it is not necessary (they are probably the only one bidding!). This keeps going until the bubble bursts. But once the bubble does burst, it starts over again (as we go back to "well, there is still a critical shortage of ideal housing!").

It's not just higher prices that are a result of the lack of strategic planning, its:

• people living in unsuitable/small housing
• people spending a huge proportion of their working day "commuting". Anything more than half an hour's commute should be viewed as the exception, not the norm. In dublin, commutes in excess of an hour have become "acceptable".
• a massive over-reliance on cars/oil. A modern city should see the majority of people take mass transport/walk/cycle to work/schools/shops/bars.
• a massive problem with anti-social behaviour. Much of the most desirable land (city centre) is in the hands of the non-working population who live in 2-story houses right bang where large office/apartment complex should be. This is no place to raise children - there is no hope for th vast majority of children raised in these circumstances. As a result, much of Dublin city center problem-areas are multi-generational.
• the introduction of "commercial parks" on the outskirts of the city. There really is nothing worse. Industrial parks make sens for factories that require huge horizontal space and large trucking both incoming and outgoing. Retail Parks makes sense for the large DIY/Furniture stores etc (along with the trucking required). But commercial offices are people-centric. The main focus points of where to place an office are:
  • somewhere where the vast majority of the city can easily commute to (if you place your office in an unsuitable location like city west, blanch or sandyford, you do not have a pool of 2 million potential employees, you have a tiny fraction of that who can easily commute to your stupid location.
  • excellent transport options that can handle the peak traffic hours (industrial/retail will be spread out throughout the day)
  • somewhere with a large selection of restaurants, bars, shops etc to support the human function of office work. The amount of people who work in these places who commute to the gray estates, work, go to the one nearby coffee shop, and commute home again in the evening. Compare that to their colleagues who work in city center offices who will often go out for lunch with colleagues, pints on a Friday evening, pop out to the shops/bank etc at lunch time or immediately after work.

emilymemily

In fairness the housing crises isnt just in Dublin, it seems to be growing country wide as prices go up everywhere. 8 years ago you could rent a 2 bed apartment in the centre of a town for 500 - 600 euro. Now you'd pay that for a room sharing in an apartment in the same area.
One thing I noticed though, people are adamant to live in Dublin city center and wont even think about moving outside the city to a commuter town. I was speaking to a couple of Spanish lads who where giving out about their rent and cramped living conditions. They were living in Dublin city center. I said to them why don't they consider renting in Wicklow, Meath, Louth, Kildare or a town outside Dublin like Skerries or Swords, its an hour or less on the train or bus and doesnt cost that much but they shot down that notion before I could finish my sentence. Their attitude was like how dare I even suggest they should travel to work. It just came across a bit entitled, like id love to live in Dublin but I cant afford the standard of living that id like so I dont live there. I just think its mad the way so many people are determined to live in Dublin, knowing theres a crisis, Dublin is way over populated, its a tiny city and can realistically only accommodate so many people.
Tbh though it doesnt explain the house prices, rents prices etc in the rest of the country, my little home town where theres no opportunities has tripled in rent prices in the last few years, ive friends living rurally just outside the town paying 1,200 a month for a 3 bed house while trying to support their young family on one income.

Geuze

emilymemily wrote: »

Is there anyway of solving it? whats causing it?

(1) Yes, reduce land and building costs, so as to boost supply.

(2) Demand exceeds supply.

pxdf9i5cmoavkz

Allinall wrote: »

There’s a lack of concrete evidence.

Underrated comment!

CPTM

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Would helping to raise those asset prices cause problems for those that don't already own homes but would like to, and who truly gains from these rising asset prices, and what role does the financial sector play in all of this?

The only beneficiaries I can see from the housing crisis is the government's finance department and their exposure to bad loans, as well as the vulture funds (and lucky people) that snapped up the market between 08-13. That's not to mention the 50% of TDs who own property themselves. The financial sector is a business who will make as much money as legally possible. They will point to their regulators as a central governing body because if they don't they will lose their competitiveness.

dotsman

emilymemily wrote: »

In fairness the housing crises isnt just in Dublin, it seems to be growing country wide as prices go up everywhere. 8 years ago you could rent a 2 bed apartment in the centre of a town for 500 - 600 euro. Now you'd pay that for a room sharing in an apartment in the same area.

Tbh though it doesnt explain the house prices, rents prices etc in the rest of the country, my little home town where theres no opportunities has tripled in rent prices in the last few years, ive friends living rurally just outside the town paying 1,200 a month for a 3 bed house while trying to support their young family on one income.

But it is only in dublin (and the other cities to a lesser extent). The rest of the country is just a bubble. Because Ireland is so dublin-centric, the talk of property shortage and increase in prices relating to Dublin results in "fools" in rural communities thinking the same applies to them so pay more than they need to. Chances are, they are the only person bidding on (or looking to rent) the property. Sellers/landlord simply charge what people are willing to pay.

emilymemily wrote: »

One thing I noticed though, people are adamant to live in Dublin city center and wont even think about moving outside the city to a commuter town. I was speaking to a couple of Spanish lads who where giving out about their rent and cramped living conditions. They were living in Dublin city center. I said to them why don't they consider renting in Wicklow, Meath, Louth, Kildare or a town outside Dublin like Skerries or Swords, its an hour or less on the train or bus and doesnt cost that much but they shot down that notion before I could finish my sentence. Their attitude was like how dare I even suggest they should travel to work. It just came across a bit entitled, like id love to live in Dublin but I cant afford the standard of living that id like so I dont live there. I just think its mad the way so many people are determined to live in Dublin, knowing theres a crisis, Dublin is way over populated, its a tiny city and can realistically only accommodate so many people.

But you just have that attitude because it has been going on for so long and you are used to it, you are happy accept the situation and to settle for the terrible commutes and lack of proper city-living. An hour on the train or bus is a ridiculous concept (given that there is likely an additional commute from your home/office to the bus/train) that wouldn't be tolerated by most people living in properly planned cities. These Spanish lads are not "entitled", they are simply expecting a fairly normal city life, based on their own experiences of city-living prior to moving to the disaster that is "Irish Urban Planning".

CPTM

whisky_galore wrote: »

So that's ok then... shur it'll be grand. Only those people who get sick with no health insurance, that must be a small number.

It's not like anyone's going to die or anything...

Sorry do you think I want one crisis over another? If you're asking me which should be fixed first, I will say health sector for the reasons you've indirectly outlined. If you're asking me which will get more publicity as being a 'crisis', and therefore more attention from the public and politicians, I'm afraid I feel it will be transport because the media and politicians work on the loudest problems, which are not necessarily the most severe.

Berserker

Geuze wrote: »

(1) Yes, reduce land and building costs, so as to boost supply.

(2) Demand exceeds supply.

Tried that during the last boom. No shortage of houses. Remember the ghost estates?

kylith

Cina wrote: »

Maybe if Irish people didn't have such an elitist view when it comes to owning a house and would actually be happy with apartments, like most countries are, then there wouldn't be a crisis. Anything that is being built in Dublin is usually some massive housing estate that's just a complete waste of valuable land.

Considering the population of Dublin is predicted to grow by about 500,000 in the next 30 years then I don't see any of this getting solved anytime soon unless there's actually a proper effort put into building high-rise apartments.

part of the issue there is the state of renting in this country. In many European countries a tented home is just that - a home. You can decorate as you like, you supply your own furniture: you can more or less treat it as your own in that regard. Here you can’t even have a pet in rented accommodation. Rents are exhorbitant, there’s no security, and the state of some places is revolting.

CPTM

kylith wrote: »

part of the issue there is the state of renting in this country. In many European countries a tented home is just that - a home. You can decorate as you like, you supply your own furniture: you can more or less treat it as your own in that regard. Here you can’t even have a pet in rented accommodation. Rents are exhorbitant, there’s no security, and the state of some places is revolting.

Also, with apartments you have these huge mgmt fees for nothing. Insurance and cleaning. In other countries they build in gyms, dry cleaning facilities, creches etc into the building itself and residents get great discounts. Here there's elevators and compliance to fire safety regulations if you're lucky!

zom

Why should we build higher?

As houses are expensive now, people are forced to live in 60 - 80 sqm shoeboxes with tiny gardens. We better give them 60 - 80 sqm flats with balcony at the same costs.

As there is no densification, there is no real public transport to connect it. We better build towers of flats in city centre so people can walk and they don't need public transport at all.

As there is lack of skilled workforce building even simple house is expensive and poor quality. We better go for expensive high structures where there are much more quality factors like balconies or fire protection for example.

There is resistance for providing social housing because of social problems it can generate especially if densified. So we better provide those poor people with decent houses to help them to pursue working class we want to put into flats.

whisky_galore

zom wrote: »

As there is lack of skilled workforce building even simple house is expensive and poor quality. We better go for expensive high structures where there are much more quality factors like balconies or fire protection for example.

Bahahaha!

Even when we had this 'skilled workforce' we still got shoddy homes, builders penny pinching and being cute.

Wheeliebin30

Just heard the rent in council houses barely covers the maintenance of these houses.
Its just not sustainable to build endless social houses.

dotsman

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Just heard the rent in council houses barely covers the maintenance of these houses.
Its just not sustainable to build endless social houses.

Especially when social houses only add to the problem, not the solution.

Hector Bellend

CPTM wrote: »

When an economy recovers, cities recover first. When signs of life appeared, everyone flocked there to find jobs.

But to play devil's advocate - doesn't the government still have a massive stake in one of the biggest mortgage lenders in the country(AIB); a mortgage lender with many loans in arrears? Doesn't it make sense to bring the value of those struggling assets up so that the customer can clear the heavy debt before the government has to??

The Transport crisis is (or will be) the next thing as soon as they fix the housing crisis. They'll build the houses and put on extra bus routes but this city is already coming to a standstill with trains and buses full after the first few stations.

There is also a schooling crisis on the way

jobless

dotsman wrote: »

But you just have that attitude because it has been going on for so long and you are used to it, you are happy accept the situation and to settle for the terrible commutes and lack of proper city-living. An hour on the train or bus is a ridiculous concept (given that there is likely an additional commute from your home/office to the bus/train) that wouldn't be tolerated by most people living in properly planned cities. These Spanish lads are not "entitled", they are simply expecting a fairly normal city life, based on their own experiences of city-living prior to moving to the disaster that is "Irish Urban Planning".

Which properly planned cities are you talking about, i dont think there is any such thing.....
look at the commuting times in the cities listed here..... no too disimilar to dublin

https://www.smartcitiesdive.com/ex/sustainablecitiescollective/best-and-worst-cities-commuting-world/239891/

dotsman

Munich is only slightly bigger than dublin in terms of population. Yet a far greater percentage of people live in the actual city. As a result, they have 8 underground lines, 9 commuter trains, 13 tramlines and an extensive and efficient bus service.

Even during "rush hour" the roads are generally clear and it is not uncommon for the few cars & vans that need to drive through the city to be able to travel @ 100 kmph along the major road arteries.

Berserker

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Just heard the rent in council houses barely covers the maintenance of these houses.
Its just not sustainable to build endless social houses.

Can we not just up the rent and means test it? They pay a pittance in rent. If council renter A can afford a foreign holiday then surely they can afford to pay a few quid extra in rent.

dotsman wrote: »

Munich is only slightly bigger than dublin in terms of population. Yet a far greater percentage of people live in the actual city. As a result, they have 8 underground lines, 9 commuter trains, 13 tramlines and an extensive and efficient bus service.

Even during "rush hour" the roads are generally clear and it is not uncommon for the few cars & vans that need to drive through the city to be able to travel @ 100 kmph along the major road arteries.

Loads of examples out there but the powers that be here don't want follow them for some reason.

Geuze

Berserker wrote: »

Can we not just up the rent and means test it? They pay a pittance in rent. If council renter A can afford a foreign holiday then surely they can afford to pay a few quid extra in rent.



Loads of examples out there but the powers that be here don't want follow them for some reason.

LA housing rents are already means-tested. It's known as a differential rent.

As income rises, the rent rises.

The problem is the tenants don't tell the LA about higher income coming into the hh.

fash

kylith wrote: »

part of the issue there is the state of renting in this country. In many European countries a tented home is just that - a home.

As much as it is here.

You can decorate as you like,

I assume you mean paint the walls- you can do the same here- just paint it back when you leave ( as happens in other countries). What is terrible with some tenants is where they think they can paint themselves- I've seen on several occasions wall paint rolled across walls, sockets, light switches ( literally as if they weren't there), doors ( literally the entire doors) and skirting, and anything attached to the wall, mottled and bumpy because it was done with a really "fluffy" roller, splatters on the tile and wooden floors and the paint in colours like burgundy and purple. Professionally paint when you arrive in the way you want, then professionally paint back when you leave and no-one will mind. That is also how it is done in many European countries.

you supply your own furniture: you can more or less treat it as your own in that regard.

True enough- the market in Ireland for unfurnished is smaller- the upshot is you get to move more easily and more cheaply and don't have as big set up costs.

Here you can’t even have a pet in rented accommodation.

don't know of any European countries which are different.

Rents are exhorbitant, there’s no security,

There is now plenty of security in Ireland- on par with anywhere else.

Rents are indeed exorbitant- a consequence of lack of supply.

and the state of some places is revolting.

due to lack of supply, they can rent them. Of note, a consequence of the current rent increase embargo is that it does incentivise landlords of horrible places to do them up- they have the most to gain from doing so.

it was solved over 10 years ago when they were building 90,000 houses a year
we had 250-300,000 spare houses but they knocked a lot of those and spent money bailing the banks out instead of ,say, building an autobahn in an X across the country (to make those houses commutable to towns and cities) and focusing on infrastructure spending on the regional cities.

Instead we almost bankrupted ourselves bailing out investors and our trades became unemployed instead of being sent to finish off the unfinished houses (it would have been better long run with things like airbnb now eh)

......and like it or not massive population growth wont help but you have no control over that with open borders (not saying that's necessarily a bad thing in net terms) - something the must be considered in this equation.

Ireland isn't a big country, an empty house in the west of Ireland could actually be commutable to somewhere like Athlone (even Clifden to Athlone circa 160km or 100miles in old money is commutable on an autobahn). At authobahn speeds everything within a 200km radius of Athlone would commutable. That is a feck large portion of the vacant houses and country itself. The rest would be down south and could have been made largely commutable to cork or Limerick.

No excuse

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

it was solved over 10 years ago when they were building 90,000 houses a year
we had 250-300,000 spare houses but they knocked a lot of those and spent money bailing the banks out instead of ,say, building an autobahn in an X across the country (to make those houses commutable to towns and cities) and focusing on infrastructure spending on the regional cities.

Instead we almost bankrupted ourselves bailing out investors and our trades became unemployed instead of being sent to finish off the unfinished houses (it would have been better long run with things like airbnb now eh)

......and like it or not massive population growth wont help but you have no control over that with open borders (not saying that's necessarily a bad thing in net terms) - something the must be considered in this equation.

Ireland isn't a big country, an empty house in the west of Ireland could actually be commutable to somewhere like Athlone (even Clifden to Athlone circa 160km or 100miles in old money is commutable on an autobahn). At authobahn speeds everything within a 200km radius of Athlone would commutable. That is a feck large portion of the vacant houses and country itself. The rest would be down south and could have been made largely commutable to cork or Limerick.

No excuse

Sweet Jesus. The picture of autobahns stringing the length and breadth of the country joining up houses scattered in every corner of Ireland.

Even managed to shoe horn the bank guarantee in that rant.

Leftist crap 101.

mosesposeses

There is no housing crisis . The ratio of houses to homeless is 61:3
(183,312 houses; Scource: central statistics office, to 9,846 homeles;s Source: Focus Ireland)

There is a lack of affordable housing.

zom

mosesposeses wrote: »

There is no housing crisis . The ratio of houses to homeless is 61:3
(183,312 houses; Scource: central statistics office, to 9,846 homeles;s Source: Focus Ireland)

There is a lack of affordable housing.

There is not such thing like "affordable housing", unless you mean "social housing". I know two examples where houses were sold as "affordable" and then "re-sold" few years later for real market price with >200% profit.

"Affordable housing" is simply public money wasted, given to con artists.

4ensic15

Deleted User wrote: »

it was solved over 10 years ago when they were building 90,000 houses a year
we had 250-300,000 spare houses but they knocked a lot of those and spent money bailing the banks out instead of ,say, building an autobahn in an X across the country (to make those houses commutable to towns and cities) and focusing on infrastructure spending on the regional cities.

Where was the money to build the autobahn going to come from? The money to pay the tradesmen to finish houses which were beside empty houses no one would buy or rent?

doolox

This is the key for most low paid workers. Contemplating a 100Km commute is out of the question for most on or near minimum wage. They cannot afford a car unless they have an obliging relative to maintain and repair it for them.( It is unlikely that anyone able to do this work for themselves will be on minimum wage.) Car insurance for young workers is another big barrier. Many workplaces will have to supply workers housing as part of their jobs in the future or face huge pay hikes.

For most workers in the cities there is no choice but to rent near their workplace unless they are on shiftwork on 3 day weeks which knocks out rush hour traffic or have a temporary place to sleep in the city while at work, using their main residence for non working family members and for themselves at weekends.

Hi speed trains might be a cheaper answer than wall-to-wall multilane highways. The country would need to invest in electrification and signalling in order to achieve higher speeds, the downside is the alarming tendency towards strikes and disruption in the railway fraternity, this could lead to job losses among long distance commuters unless the government could put in protecting laws preventing employers firing people for being late or absent due to strikes, not likely to happen.

I am just after viewing a video about Chinese megacities planned for the near future, cities of 100 million inhabitants with 4hr commutes, 6am starts to get to 9am jobs and not home until 8pm, absolute nightmare stuff.

Ireland can solve its housing crisis only by correctly identifying the causes of current homelessness. Much of this is caused by chaotic lifestyle choices and by people not engaged in further training or education at a level suitable to themselves. The general public need to realise that many people will never be able to afford to house themselves no matter how hard they try. Underlying problems with mental health, alcohol and drug addiction, problems with relationships and exposure to violence, problems with fitness and ability to perform certain tasks etc, all militate against many people being able to earn enough to finance a house for themselves. Many in society believe that these people can be subjected to a form of economic terrorism whereby they are forced out to work in order to pay very high rents in very insecure housing units and this will last a long time and solve the problem. The sad fact is that it is not sustainable for very human and limiting reasons. People get sick, people get tired and people get angry when forced to work too hard and for too long in trying circumstances. One mistake by one errant driver can add to the misery and inconvenience of 100's of 1000's of commuters leading to delays, lost productivity and lost earnings for many people.

There is no alternative to massive, heavily subsidised and government run public housing in Ireland. The present government are very reluctant to face up to this but spend a huge amount of money on makeshift emergency accommodation as a result.

We should never have sold our public housing stock at low prices.

We should never have abandoned public building works or projects.

Housing should always be allotted to those most in need. When family size reduces, people should be rehoused in smaller housing units to free up larger units for bigger families. A pensioner living in a three bed house all his/her life is wasteful. Also a couple with one child could live in a one bed unit for the first few years until family size gets bigger. People getting tenure for life and passing that tenure to sons and daughters, regardless of their means is wasteful. The administration of all this would be very difficult to do.

Dublin Cork etc need to start building up because land is getting scarcer.

Good article by Colm McCarthy in the Indo. While there is much screaming at politicians to 'do something' about all this, there are plenty of other politicians (looking for a quick vote) actively making the situation worse by lending their support to 'resident associations' (groups of image conscious nimbyist snobs in reality) campaigns to block new developments in various areas of Dublin.

https://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/colm-mccarthy/how-can-living-in-dublin-cost-more-than-geneva-37207541.html

brevity

Improve the broadband and encourage/incentivise working from home or satellite offices/hot desking.

Why does everyone have to travel to work in an office when remoting in and conference calls should be easy enough to do.

This would give people a better chance or getting a job anywhere but also living anywhere.

Spanish Eyes

Social housing (or HAP properties) within thirty minutes or so of Dublin should NOT be allocated to those who are not working or contributing.

Move them further out, and move the productive workers in.

But what about me mammy, and the bus stop, and me sister down the road oh yeah?

Can anyone justify placing lifers in a house/flat close enough to the City please.

At least it would be a start.

James Brown

How many 'lifers' are there? How many tax payers not earning enough?

Do you blame the thief for not handing himself in or the security Guard turning a blind eye?

realitykeeper

I see Rwanda have big plans for housing development over the next few years. My guess is that they will succeed where we have failed and the reason is because they have comparatively little debt which can effect bond yields. This link shows what they have planned: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzzyYycfWyo In Ireland, the housing market has been interfered with by political meddling so it is no longer functional.

NIMAN

It was announced on local radio up here that Donegal County Council had a 40% refusal rate for house offers this year so far.

Considering we are supposedly in a homelessness crisis, this is shockingly high.

I wonder what the other county figures are?

Suckler

NIMAN wrote: »

It was announced on local radio up here that Donegal County Council had a 40% refusal rate for house offers this year so far.

They weren't "Forever Homes" obviously.