Housing crisis

dotsman · 05-07-2018 10:38AM

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Just heard the rent in council houses barely covers the maintenance of these houses.
Its just not sustainable to build endless social houses.

Especially when social houses only add to the problem, not the solution.

Hector Bellend · 05-07-2018 10:52AM

CPTM wrote: »

When an economy recovers, cities recover first. When signs of life appeared, everyone flocked there to find jobs.

But to play devil's advocate - doesn't the government still have a massive stake in one of the biggest mortgage lenders in the country(AIB); a mortgage lender with many loans in arrears? Doesn't it make sense to bring the value of those struggling assets up so that the customer can clear the heavy debt before the government has to??

The Transport crisis is (or will be) the next thing as soon as they fix the housing crisis. They'll build the houses and put on extra bus routes but this city is already coming to a standstill with trains and buses full after the first few stations.

There is also a schooling crisis on the way

jobless · 05-07-2018 11:00AM

dotsman wrote: »

But you just have that attitude because it has been going on for so long and you are used to it, you are happy accept the situation and to settle for the terrible commutes and lack of proper city-living. An hour on the train or bus is a ridiculous concept (given that there is likely an additional commute from your home/office to the bus/train) that wouldn't be tolerated by most people living in properly planned cities. These Spanish lads are not "entitled", they are simply expecting a fairly normal city life, based on their own experiences of city-living prior to moving to the disaster that is "Irish Urban Planning".

Which properly planned cities are you talking about, i dont think there is any such thing.....
look at the commuting times in the cities listed here..... no too disimilar to dublin

https://www.smartcitiesdive.com/ex/sustainablecitiescollective/best-and-worst-cities-commuting-world/239891/

dotsman · 05-07-2018 11:21AM

Munich is only slightly bigger than dublin in terms of population. Yet a far greater percentage of people live in the actual city. As a result, they have 8 underground lines, 9 commuter trains, 13 tramlines and an extensive and efficient bus service.

Even during "rush hour" the roads are generally clear and it is not uncommon for the few cars & vans that need to drive through the city to be able to travel @ 100 kmph along the major road arteries.

Berserker · 05-07-2018 12:56PM

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Just heard the rent in council houses barely covers the maintenance of these houses.
Its just not sustainable to build endless social houses.

Can we not just up the rent and means test it? They pay a pittance in rent. If council renter A can afford a foreign holiday then surely they can afford to pay a few quid extra in rent.

dotsman wrote: »

Munich is only slightly bigger than dublin in terms of population. Yet a far greater percentage of people live in the actual city. As a result, they have 8 underground lines, 9 commuter trains, 13 tramlines and an extensive and efficient bus service.

Even during "rush hour" the roads are generally clear and it is not uncommon for the few cars & vans that need to drive through the city to be able to travel @ 100 kmph along the major road arteries.

Loads of examples out there but the powers that be here don't want follow them for some reason.

Geuze · 05-07-2018 12:58PM

Berserker wrote: »

Can we not just up the rent and means test it? They pay a pittance in rent. If council renter A can afford a foreign holiday then surely they can afford to pay a few quid extra in rent.

Loads of examples out there but the powers that be here don't want follow them for some reason.

LA housing rents are already means-tested. It's known as a differential rent.

As income rises, the rent rises.

The problem is the tenants don't tell the LA about higher income coming into the hh.

fash · 06-07-2018 06:26AM

kylith wrote: »

part of the issue there is the state of renting in this country. In many European countries a tented home is just that - a home.

As much as it is here.

You can decorate as you like,

I assume you mean paint the walls- you can do the same here- just paint it back when you leave ( as happens in other countries). What is terrible with some tenants is where they think they can paint themselves- I've seen on several occasions wall paint rolled across walls, sockets, light switches ( literally as if they weren't there), doors ( literally the entire doors) and skirting, and anything attached to the wall, mottled and bumpy because it was done with a really "fluffy" roller, splatters on the tile and wooden floors and the paint in colours like burgundy and purple. Professionally paint when you arrive in the way you want, then professionally paint back when you leave and no-one will mind. That is also how it is done in many European countries.

you supply your own furniture: you can more or less treat it as your own in that regard.

True enough- the market in Ireland for unfurnished is smaller- the upshot is you get to move more easily and more cheaply and don't have as big set up costs.

Here you can’t even have a pet in rented accommodation.

don't know of any European countries which are different.

Rents are exhorbitant, there’s no security,

There is now plenty of security in Ireland- on par with anywhere else.

Rents are indeed exorbitant- a consequence of lack of supply.

and the state of some places is revolting.

due to lack of supply, they can rent them. Of note, a consequence of the current rent increase embargo is that it does incentivise landlords of horrible places to do them up- they have the most to gain from doing so.

06-07-2018 06:45AM

it was solved over 10 years ago when they were building 90,000 houses a year
we had 250-300,000 spare houses but they knocked a lot of those and spent money bailing the banks out instead of ,say, building an autobahn in an X across the country (to make those houses commutable to towns and cities) and focusing on infrastructure spending on the regional cities.

Instead we almost bankrupted ourselves bailing out investors and our trades became unemployed instead of being sent to finish off the unfinished houses (it would have been better long run with things like airbnb now eh)

......and like it or not massive population growth wont help but you have no control over that with open borders (not saying that's necessarily a bad thing in net terms) - something the must be considered in this equation.

Ireland isn't a big country, an empty house in the west of Ireland could actually be commutable to somewhere like Athlone (even Clifden to Athlone circa 160km or 100miles in old money is commutable on an autobahn). At authobahn speeds everything within a 200km radius of Athlone would commutable. That is a feck large portion of the vacant houses and country itself. The rest would be down south and could have been made largely commutable to cork or Limerick.

No excuse

06-07-2018 11:12PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

it was solved over 10 years ago when they were building 90,000 houses a year
we had 250-300,000 spare houses but they knocked a lot of those and spent money bailing the banks out instead of ,say, building an autobahn in an X across the country (to make those houses commutable to towns and cities) and focusing on infrastructure spending on the regional cities.

Instead we almost bankrupted ourselves bailing out investors and our trades became unemployed instead of being sent to finish off the unfinished houses (it would have been better long run with things like airbnb now eh)

......and like it or not massive population growth wont help but you have no control over that with open borders (not saying that's necessarily a bad thing in net terms) - something the must be considered in this equation.

Ireland isn't a big country, an empty house in the west of Ireland could actually be commutable to somewhere like Athlone (even Clifden to Athlone circa 160km or 100miles in old money is commutable on an autobahn). At authobahn speeds everything within a 200km radius of Athlone would commutable. That is a feck large portion of the vacant houses and country itself. The rest would be down south and could have been made largely commutable to cork or Limerick.

No excuse

Sweet Jesus. The picture of autobahns stringing the length and breadth of the country joining up houses scattered in every corner of Ireland.

Even managed to shoe horn the bank guarantee in that rant.

Leftist crap 101.

mosesposeses · 07-07-2018 09:20AM

There is no housing crisis . The ratio of houses to homeless is 61:3
(183,312 houses; Scource: central statistics office, to 9,846 homeles;s Source: Focus Ireland)

There is a lack of affordable housing.

zom · 08-07-2018 10:30AM

mosesposeses wrote: »

There is no housing crisis . The ratio of houses to homeless is 61:3
(183,312 houses; Scource: central statistics office, to 9,846 homeles;s Source: Focus Ireland)

There is a lack of affordable housing.

There is not such thing like "affordable housing", unless you mean "social housing". I know two examples where houses were sold as "affordable" and then "re-sold" few years later for real market price with >200% profit.

"Affordable housing" is simply public money wasted, given to con artists.

4ensic15 · 08-07-2018 10:39AM

Deleted User wrote: »

it was solved over 10 years ago when they were building 90,000 houses a year
we had 250-300,000 spare houses but they knocked a lot of those and spent money bailing the banks out instead of ,say, building an autobahn in an X across the country (to make those houses commutable to towns and cities) and focusing on infrastructure spending on the regional cities.

Where was the money to build the autobahn going to come from? The money to pay the tradesmen to finish houses which were beside empty houses no one would buy or rent?

doolox · 08-07-2018 11:23AM

This is the key for most low paid workers. Contemplating a 100Km commute is out of the question for most on or near minimum wage. They cannot afford a car unless they have an obliging relative to maintain and repair it for them.( It is unlikely that anyone able to do this work for themselves will be on minimum wage.) Car insurance for young workers is another big barrier. Many workplaces will have to supply workers housing as part of their jobs in the future or face huge pay hikes.

For most workers in the cities there is no choice but to rent near their workplace unless they are on shiftwork on 3 day weeks which knocks out rush hour traffic or have a temporary place to sleep in the city while at work, using their main residence for non working family members and for themselves at weekends.

Hi speed trains might be a cheaper answer than wall-to-wall multilane highways. The country would need to invest in electrification and signalling in order to achieve higher speeds, the downside is the alarming tendency towards strikes and disruption in the railway fraternity, this could lead to job losses among long distance commuters unless the government could put in protecting laws preventing employers firing people for being late or absent due to strikes, not likely to happen.

I am just after viewing a video about Chinese megacities planned for the near future, cities of 100 million inhabitants with 4hr commutes, 6am starts to get to 9am jobs and not home until 8pm, absolute nightmare stuff.

Ireland can solve its housing crisis only by correctly identifying the causes of current homelessness. Much of this is caused by chaotic lifestyle choices and by people not engaged in further training or education at a level suitable to themselves. The general public need to realise that many people will never be able to afford to house themselves no matter how hard they try. Underlying problems with mental health, alcohol and drug addiction, problems with relationships and exposure to violence, problems with fitness and ability to perform certain tasks etc, all militate against many people being able to earn enough to finance a house for themselves. Many in society believe that these people can be subjected to a form of economic terrorism whereby they are forced out to work in order to pay very high rents in very insecure housing units and this will last a long time and solve the problem. The sad fact is that it is not sustainable for very human and limiting reasons. People get sick, people get tired and people get angry when forced to work too hard and for too long in trying circumstances. One mistake by one errant driver can add to the misery and inconvenience of 100's of 1000's of commuters leading to delays, lost productivity and lost earnings for many people.

There is no alternative to massive, heavily subsidised and government run public housing in Ireland. The present government are very reluctant to face up to this but spend a huge amount of money on makeshift emergency accommodation as a result.

We should never have sold our public housing stock at low prices.

We should never have abandoned public building works or projects.

Housing should always be allotted to those most in need. When family size reduces, people should be rehoused in smaller housing units to free up larger units for bigger families. A pensioner living in a three bed house all his/her life is wasteful. Also a couple with one child could live in a one bed unit for the first few years until family size gets bigger. People getting tenure for life and passing that tenure to sons and daughters, regardless of their means is wasteful. The administration of all this would be very difficult to do.

Dublin Cork etc need to start building up because land is getting scarcer.

15-08-2018 05:32PM

Good article by Colm McCarthy in the Indo. While there is much screaming at politicians to 'do something' about all this, there are plenty of other politicians (looking for a quick vote) actively making the situation worse by lending their support to 'resident associations' (groups of image conscious nimbyist snobs in reality) campaigns to block new developments in various areas of Dublin.

https://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/colm-mccarthy/how-can-living-in-dublin-cost-more-than-geneva-37207541.html

brevity · 15-08-2018 05:40PM

Improve the broadband and encourage/incentivise working from home or satellite offices/hot desking.

Why does everyone have to travel to work in an office when remoting in and conference calls should be easy enough to do.

This would give people a better chance or getting a job anywhere but also living anywhere.

Spanish Eyes · 15-08-2018 06:29PM

Social housing (or HAP properties) within thirty minutes or so of Dublin should NOT be allocated to those who are not working or contributing.

Move them further out, and move the productive workers in.

But what about me mammy, and the bus stop, and me sister down the road oh yeah?

Can anyone justify placing lifers in a house/flat close enough to the City please.

At least it would be a start.

James Brown · 15-08-2018 06:43PM

How many 'lifers' are there? How many tax payers not earning enough?

Do you blame the thief for not handing himself in or the security Guard turning a blind eye?

realitykeeper · 17-12-2018 02:07AM

I see Rwanda have big plans for housing development over the next few years. My guess is that they will succeed where we have failed and the reason is because they have comparatively little debt which can effect bond yields. This link shows what they have planned: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzzyYycfWyo In Ireland, the housing market has been interfered with by political meddling so it is no longer functional.

NIMAN · 17-12-2018 04:33AM

It was announced on local radio up here that Donegal County Council had a 40% refusal rate for house offers this year so far.

Considering we are supposedly in a homelessness crisis, this is shockingly high.

I wonder what the other county figures are?

Suckler · 17-12-2018 06:35AM

NIMAN wrote: »

It was announced on local radio up here that Donegal County Council had a 40% refusal rate for house offers this year so far.

They weren't "Forever Homes" obviously.

Graces7 · 17-12-2018 07:25AM

NIMAN wrote: »

It was announced on local radio up here that Donegal County Council had a 40% refusal rate for house offers this year so far.

Considering we are supposedly in a homelessness crisis, this is shockingly high.

I wonder what the other county figures are?

They need to break that figure down. Two refusals are allowed.

893bet · 17-12-2018 07:32AM

Graces7 wrote: »

Two refusals are allowed.

Which is bonkers.

Beggars can be choosers.

Graces7 · 17-12-2018 08:07AM

893bet wrote: »

Which is bonkers.

Beggars can be choosers.

We who need a home are not beggars! REALLY!

Welfare state ?

The reason I stayed off the council list as long as I did was that there are certain situations I cannot live with for health reasons. Which are covered by the refuse twice factor.

amcalester · 17-12-2018 08:40AM

Newstalk Breakfast doing a follow up piece at about 8am in which they will reveal that homeless charities/campaigners are advising those in emergency accommodation to stay there and turn down HAP accommodation when it is offered.

Will the government now make it illegal for tenants to refuse HAP?

amcalester · 17-12-2018 08:43AM

Graces7 wrote: »

We who need a home are not beggars! REALLY!

I don't know Grace, this seems to suggest otherwise.

Beggar

a person, typically a homeless one, who lives by asking for money or food.

LINK

_Brian · 17-12-2018 08:53AM

Regarding affordable accommodation.

We kept the rent on our house reasonable because it seemed to make sense, we kept it to a level below which we paid much tax on the rent. Charging more rent to just pass most to the tax man didn’t seem to make sense for us or tenants.

Wrong, tenants didn’t appreciate affordable housing and the house was desperately abused.

We’ve to spend thousands getting the house back on the market and loose one and probably two months rent.

So In future we will be on a par with the most expensive house in our area, we may even pitch above that. We will be looking for two months rent as deposit and a month up front.

So many landlords have the same story, properties abused and trashed and need to charge more and more rent withh higher deposits as security.

When we rented we treated the property as our own. I helped my brother move from a rented property recently and even with no deposit to get back as it was used as rent the property was cleared and scrubbed clean. Because that’s the decent thing to do.

realitykeeper · 17-12-2018 11:47AM

Among the myriad of consequences that come with bailing out a banking sector is a dysfunctional housing market. Had the banks been allowed to fail, new banks could have grown organically to fill the void. What our government choose to do was recognize the fact that they and a lot of other people had assets that were worth less than what they paid. They set about "solving" this problem by manipulating the market in order to re-inflate property prices. What they should have done (after allowing the banks to fail) was to let property prices fall all the way and issue new banking licences to new players in order to start a new banking sector.

By reblowing the property bubble, the entire mess is likely to revisit us here in this country and with the government now in so much debt, the solvency of the state will be lost which will result in severe hardship. If Ireland had a new banking sector with organic growth to compel it, the housing crisis would now be over. Instead, it will get worse with no prospect of a resolution unless the government somehow undoes all it has done since 2008.

Ireland should reverse the bank bailouts and by resurrecting Anglo Irish Bank. By doing this, the government can let the new resurrected Anglo Irish Bank buy Ireland (a reverse of Ireland buying Anglo Irish Bank) and this Ireland owning Anglo Irish Bank then needs to write a nice letter to the creditors Ireland borrowed money from (to buy Anglo`s toxic assets) to say "Hi, we own Ireland so we owe you their debt." Having done so, Ireland then needs to extricate itself from this toxic asset owning entity by means of a de-merger the only catch being that we cannot call ourselves Ireland anymore, we need to call ourselves something else, e.g. Éire.

Similar strategies are needed to lumber our surviving bailed out banks with their old toxic assets so that they can go bust in order for a new banking sector to emerge with the organic type growth needed to solve the housing crisis.

Berserker · 17-12-2018 01:00PM

NIMAN wrote: »

It was announced on local radio up here that Donegal County Council had a 40% refusal rate for house offers this year so far.

I wonder what the other county figures are?

I know that Dublin had 400 refusals in total last year and a little of one hundred of them were from people who were listed as homeless. Not sure how many were offered though.

Fiftyfilthy · 18-12-2018 04:20PM

_Brian wrote: »

Regarding affordable accommodation.

We kept the rent on our house reasonable because it seemed to make sense, we kept it to a level below which we paid much tax on the rent. Charging more rent to just pass most to the tax man didn’t seem to make sense for us or tenants.

Wrong, tenants didn’t appreciate affordable housing and the house was desperately abused.

We’ve to spend thousands getting the house back on the market and loose one and probably two months rent.

So In future we will be on a par with the most expensive house in our area, we may even pitch above that. We will be looking for two months rent as deposit and a month up front.

So many landlords have the same story, properties abused and trashed and need to charge more and more rent withh higher deposits as security.

When we rented we treated the property as our own. I helped my brother move from a rented property recently and even with no deposit to get back as it was used as rent the property was cleared and scrubbed clean. Because that’s the decent thing to do.

They will never respect rented property in the private sector as their sense of entitlement for a fureva home burns bright.

Chinasea · 18-12-2018 06:10PM

The homeless total media bombardment is relentless.

Countless ads, reports, and prime times on the hour every hour dedicated to the Homeless. Wall to wall posters, bill-boards, all over the DART for "the homeless ". Every 5 minutes the Journal.ie posts a new sob story.

Went to put my blue token in Tesco for a charity and every charity was for the homeless. Same at work. Every moustache, every sponsored walk, cycle you name it is for the homeless.

Yes there are genuine cases and I am happy to support those only. But I am not supporting irresponsibility of which is clearly abundant. We are being totally bombarded.

Housing crisis

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