Brexit discussion thread IV

McGiver

Sam Russell wrote:

If the UK had a proper immigration policy, based on a just system, rather than a 'Hostile Environment', the immigration could have been controlled. Joining Shengen might have worked better for them, and a National ID system would solve a lot of their problems.

Yes, national ID card and residency reporting required.
I don't know why it is such a big deal for the English folk. By registering for NI number, the government knows your residence anyway as address proof is required to obtain it. And when you move, address changes must be reported (I think, I can't recall).

Well, but after all, RoI doesn't have any ID cards and strict residency registration either, due to English influence, I suppose.

Kermit.de.frog

Boris Johnson throwing another strop in tomorrow's Telegraph.

Calling for May to scrap the "unacceptable and humiliating Irish backstop"

listermint

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Boris Johnson throwing another strop in tomorrow's Telegraph.

Calling for May to scrap the "unacceptable and humiliating Irish backstop"

It's already scrapped she has said it herself. He's just a headline grabbing idiot

An Ciarraioch

FT embargoes its front page from the nightly BBC round-up: presumably a Brexit scoop tomorrow?

McGiver

Leroy42 wrote:

Isn't immigration, basically, at way to maintain wages as low as possible as domestic workers are forced to compete with immigrants. In many, although of course not all, cases immigrants are coming to a country for a relatively short period of time and as such are willing to put up with issues that a domestic person can't. SO the level of the health service, the schools, the government etc are not as big a deal. Rent of course is, but long term housing is not.

No, it's driving wages down only in an economy with a poor labour market regulation. UK is one example of such. On the other hand, Switzerland, Sweden, Denmark and Germany are good examples showing that properly regulated labour market does not lead to lower wages when exposed to immigration pressures.

Kermit.de.frog

The Moggster is on BBC QT now for anyone who enjoys some pantomime Tory toff of an evening.

Shelga

Actual toothless yokels in the QT audience tonight. :rolleyes:

JRM choosing to ignore that the £40bn they 'save' will be wiped out by the economy tanking.

prawnsambo

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The Moggster is on BBC QT now for anyone who enjoys some pantomime Tory toff of an evening.

With Rod Liddle. No thanks.

L1011

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The UK has appointed a Minister for Food Supplies in case of a hard Brexit.


No, really.

They couldn't feed themselves without extensive imports from Ireland, the US and Canada during WWII; they sure as hell can't do it now with 6 months notice and no legitimate ability to negotiate trade deals in advance. And I'm fairly certain the make do and mend spirit is long since gone.

joeysoap

Ian Lavern is a spoofer. If that’s Labour policy it’s as clear as mud. Two women making the most sense. Northern Ireland not mentioned at all.

Capt'n Midnight

Shelga wrote: »

Actual toothless yokels in the QT audience tonight. :rolleyes:

JRM choosing to ignore that the £40bn they 'save' will be wiped out by the economy tanking.

What £40Bn ?

If they don't pay the divorce fee / hello money they won't get a good deal with the EU and will just pay it in tariffs instead.

And they've already lost half that amount in lost tax revenue already.

bilston

joeysoap wrote: »

Ian Lavern is a spoofer. If that’s Labour policy it’s as clear as mud. Two women making the most sense. Northern Ireland not mentioned at all.

I haven’t a clue what Ian Lavery is on about and I don’t think he does either.

Rod Liddle would make you want to smash your TV. I would prefer listening to JRM and that is saying a lot.

J Mysterio

Unbelievable. This madness is creeping into schools. Not only are they not teaching history correctly, but they are teaching stuff like this:

School apologises after pupils handed worksheet suggesting Polish migrants 'stealing' UK jobs

Walthamstow Academy accused of distributing 'Brexit propaganda' to pupils after worksheet states Polish immigration causes 'pressures on the NHS' and 'unemployment for locals'

J Mysterio

Irish Times:

Boris Johnson calls on British government to abandon backstop for Border

Former foreign secretary says Ireland exploited Theresa May’s ‘infirmity of purpose’

Thanks Boris. How Churchillian of you.

Junkyard Tom

The over-privileged self-absorbed clown is proving the axiom - his attitude is precisely why the backstop was needed.

Infini

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

The over-privileged self-absorbed clown is proving the axiom - his attitude is precisely why the backstop was needed.

Let's tell him this, well drop the backstop but instead we'd like the rest of our island back please and oh take your headbanger friends with you we'd rather get along with all the normal people and try and improve our little patch of land in peace without him and his Tory/DUP friends making a bigger screw up of thing's on a daily basis.

Enzokk

joeysoap wrote: »

Ian Lavern is a spoofer. If that’s Labour policy it’s as clear as mud. Two women making the most sense. Northern Ireland not mentioned at all.

So that would be a normal QT then, no firm answers from either main party with some of the guests providing the most sense to the debate and some added controversy from another, for ratings. The final secret ingredient is ignoring the biggest issue they face because it is in fact too big for people to get their head around and one guest will just repeat they don't want a border so there won't be a border on NI.

J Mysterio wrote: »

Unbelievable. This madness is creeping into schools. Not only are they not teaching history correctly, but they are teaching stuff like this:

School apologises after pupils handed worksheet suggesting Polish migrants 'stealing' UK jobs

Walthamstow Academy accused of distributing 'Brexit propaganda' to pupils after worksheet states Polish immigration causes 'pressures on the NHS' and 'unemployment for locals'

The quotes from the principal would make my blood boil if I had kids going to the school. That makes me think that she knew about this and approved the language in the booklet. Seems a lot like instead of an apology for the booklet it is an apology that people are upset.

Responding to an email from a mother stating that she feared her daughter would be “stigmatised” as a result of the document, Emma Skae, the principal of the school, said: “I am truly sorry that you have been offended by what you have read.

“I can totally understand why this has caused you offence and I apologise wholeheartedly for that. I am upset about it as well.

“The context in which the information is given in the two-page [document] is regrettably not clear and some of the examples used are inaccurate and insensitive and do not reflect how we, as a school community, think and act."

Ms Skae said however that it was "important that students are able to understand that there are critics of immigration" and that "only by doing can students get a full understanding of the sensitivity of the subject".

She said the knowledge booklet had already been re-written to be "more explicit in the credence we give to the views argued by some".

Sam Russell

J Mysterio wrote: »

Unbelievable. This madness is creeping into schools. Not only are they not teaching history correctly, but they are teaching stuff like this:

School apologises after pupils handed worksheet suggesting Polish migrants 'stealing' UK jobs

Walthamstow Academy accused of distributing 'Brexit propaganda' to pupils after worksheet states Polish immigration causes 'pressures on the NHS' and 'unemployment for locals'

They were quite willing to accept Polish immigrants when they needed a few extra pilots to fly Spitfires when they had a spot of bother with Europe in 1940. In fact the Poles were considered exceptional heroes at the time and for a few decades afterwards.

How soon they forget.

kuro68k

The UK can't avoid paying the 40 billion divorce bill. It would destroy the UK credit rating and signal to every other country that the UK walks away from its debts and is not to be trusted.

Spook_ie

Sam Russell wrote: »

They were quite willing to accept Polish immigrants when they needed a few extra pilots to fly Spitfires when they had a spot of bother with Europe in 1940. In fact the Poles were considered exceptional heroes at the time and for a few decades afterwards.

How soon they forget.

Think technically they would have been refugees.

Sam Russell

Spook_ie wrote: »

Think technically they would have been refugees.

Well, whatever their status, there were not a lot of them - just a few.
'Never has so much been owed by so many to to so few'

How quickly do they forget.

FrancieBrady

Debating Brexit or Remain in the UK is now pointless as QT repeatedly shows.
It's just a procession of people repeating political mantras in an effort to get the loudest applause.
The applause has started to sound like it is canned.
The depressing thing is they are going to need an actual taste of Brexit before they will debate/discuss it truthfully.

Spook_ie

Sam Russell wrote: »

Well, whatever their status, there were not a lot of them - just a few.
'Never has so much been owed by so many to to so few'

How quickly do they forget.

Think the "So few" quote is meant to encompass the whole RAF which had actually a motley collection of nationalities flying, including Poles, Canadians, Free French, South Africans etc.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-British_personnel_in_the_RAF_during_the_Battle_of_Britain

But let's not allow history to get between a good sound bite and present day, yes indeed how quickly do people forget.

Peregrinus

Spook_ie wrote: »

Think technically they would have been refugees.

"Allies" is the word you're groping for. They were allies.

ancapailldorcha

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Debating Brexit or Remain in the UK is now pointless as QT repeatedly shows.
It's just a procession of people repeating political mantras in an effort to get the loudest applause.
The applause has started to sound like it is canned.
The depressing thing is they are going to need an actual taste of Brexit before they will debate/discuss it truthfully.

No, what's depressing is that this is a room full of people who consider attending Question Time to be a good use of an evening. These are people who would be more politically savvy and engaged than most and the level of debate is pathetic.

HugoRune

The audience for Question Time is carefully selected -- supposedly to be fully representative of British society. However, watching a couple of programmes in the lead up to the vote, it was clear that the audience -- particularly the more vocal element -- was stridently pro-Brexit. I'd say that Hughie Green's clap-o-meter would have registered a minimum 90% in favour of Brexit. When you consider that, at most, 33% of voters were 'stridently' pro-Breixt (and possibly less), then the audience membership really wasn't representative. Carrying so much influence, the programme could be considered a strong contributor to the exit vote.
There was a news story knocking around about a leave-supporting producer deliberately weighting the audience in their favour. I can't find the specific story, but this link came up from a Google search: https://www.commonspace.scot/articles/10001/bbc-reprimands-question-time-producer-over-far-right-social-media-posts

Hurrache

James O'Brien giving a shout out to the New2Day explainer for kids on Brexit.

https://twitter.com/mrjamesob/status/1045584930821017601

ancapailldorcha

That video is excellent. I'd have been cynical about RTÉ's ability to explain something like Brexit so succinctly or concisely, nevermind on a children's show but here we are.

Hurrache

[deadpan]"and Britain doesn't like that". [/]

The new motto for Brexit.

kuro68k

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Debating Brexit or Remain in the UK is now pointless as QT repeatedly shows.
It's just a procession of people repeating political mantras in an effort to get the loudest applause.
The applause has started to sound like it is canned.
The depressing thing is they are going to need an actual taste of Brexit before they will debate/discuss it truthfully.

Dimbleby is leaving this year so it might get better. Any Questions on Radio 4 / World Service (can also listen on iPlayer for free in IE) is much better, so there is hope.
The UK could do with a really good political debate show. The quality of everything we have now is a joke.