Do the Gardas turn a blind eye to drug use in Dublin ?

Dr Brown

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Drugs are not illegal illicit substances.

What are you taking about ? Heroin is illegal.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Dr Brown wrote: »

What are you taking about ? Heroin is illegal.

There are a lot of drugs that are harmless, but illegal.
There are a lot of drugs that are dangerous, but legal.
There are a lot of drugs that are legal in one jurisdiction, but legal in others.

Case in point: LSD is far far safer than alcohol when taken responsibly.

Are you trying to make society safer, or more legal?

Or are you talking ONLY about heroin?

Dr Brown

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

There are a lot of drugs that are harmless, but illegal.
There are a lof of drugs that are dangerous, but legal.

Case in point: LSD is far far safer than alcohol when taken responsibly.

Are you trying to make society safer, or more legal?

Or are you talking ONLY about heroin?

I'm talking about Junkies shooting up in the city centre.

Dyr

Del2005 wrote: »

The private prisons came about because they were locking so many people up. They still have the highest per capita prison population and they still have a massive problem with drugs. So zero tolerance doesn't work while decriminalisation does.

Hows the oul crime figures in America? Dropping quite dramatically I think

Who'd a thunk that taking crims out of public circulation would result in drop in crime?

I reckon if we actually locked up around 10k of the criminals in Dublin for a few years the crime levels would plummit.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Dr Brown wrote: »

I'm talking about Junkies shooting up in the city centre.

Then you obviously don't want "a zero tolerance approach were anyone caught with drugs got a minimum of 5 years in jail"; or you don't care if this or will not make society a safer place.

And even if you did, do you seriously think fear is going to act as a deterrent to someone who has a serious addiction to what is genuinely a dangerous and addictive drug (not to mention God knows what other problems)? Can you explain to me how that is going to get people off drugs? Addicted abusers don't think "ooh, I'd better not take this or might wind up in jail..."

Suggest you do some research before spouting bull**** in the future. You're not going to solve a problem until you actually know the problem.

Effects

Dr Brown wrote: »

I can only imagine what tourists must think when they see junkies shooting up right in the open.

If was a tourist and I saw that I wouldn't come back to Dublin.

The first time I went to Prague I saw a guy with his trousers pulled down, injecting into his groin. This was in the Old Town Square so one of the most popular and trafficked part of the city. It didn't stop me going back.

Dr Brown

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Then you obviously don't want "a zero tolerance approach were anyone caught with drugs got a minimum of 5 years in jail"; or you don't care if this or will not make society a safer place.

And even if you did, do you seriously think fear is going to act as a deterrent to someone who has a serious addiction to what is genuinely a dangerous and addictive drug (not to mention God knows what other problems)? Can you explain to me how that is going to get people off drugs? Addicted abusers don't think "ooh, I'd better not take this or might wind up in jail..."

Suggest you do some research before spouting bull**** in the future. You're not going to solve a problem until you actually know the problem.

If Junkies knew they were going to be arrested they would not be shooting up out in the open.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Dr Brown wrote: »

If Junkies knew they were going to be arrested they would not be shooting up out in the open.

Ah, so it's the "in the open" part you object to? You just want it swept under the carpet?

doolox

In many cases involving young male victims the perpetrator is not on drugs. He couldn't as most young males and a lot of females would put a typical junkie away in short order or run away fast enough to avoid being robbed.

Junkies usually operate by theft, taking some property or handbag or other valuable item or stock in a shop and hoping not to get caught, they are usually not fit enough to run.

Many operate in packs, misleading the victims to make the grab on the loot and get away.

Many of their victims are obviously old and infirm looking people and they will steer clear of younger looking males if they can.

I have travelled the world to places like Rome, Paris, Boston, Istanbul etc and have never had any trouble with junkies, despite being asked for a small cash donation on a few occasions.

On the other hand, rogue taxi drivers, gypsies and pickpockets have been on to me a few times and once were successful.

Thank God my passport or vital documents were not taken. Only money which can easily be replaced.

Dr Brown

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Ah, so it's the "in the open" part you object to? You just want it swept under the carpet?

Yeah I'm sure you don't think its normal to be shooting up Heroin in public ?

Ash.J.Williams

wiz569 wrote: »

Are you sure he wasn't a diabetic?

I always presumed hard drugs were injected into veins.

One runs out of veins eventually

Ash.J.Williams

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

There are a lot of drugs that are harmless, but illegal.
There are a lot of drugs that are dangerous, but legal.
There are a lot of drugs that are legal in one jurisdiction, but legal in others.

Case in point: LSD is far far safer than alcohol when taken responsibly.

Are you trying to make society safer, or more legal?

Or are you talking ONLY about heroin?

I disagree about lsd, if you took lsd every Friday night you would be what's commonly known as a loony

soiseztomabel

Dr Brown wrote: »

If we had a zero tolerance approach were anyone caught with drugs got a minimum of 5 years in jail I think drug users would disappear pretty quickly from the city centre.

So take someone who is unlucky enough to get caught with a small amount of any drug (weed, pills, coke) bang them up and mix them up with hardened drug abusers (heroin, crack whatever). We take them away from city centre for 5 years and problem solved ?

Nope...

You're lucky that idea isn't employed currently because if thats what you think would solve the cities drug problem you are obviously on some crazy mind altering substances.

Its pretty simple, the out of sight/out of mind attitude that people had with regards to those that used hard drugs in Dublin's lower socio-economic area is was exactly the catalyst to why the city is where it is now. Scooping people in the high of addiction and dump them elsewhere creates greater problem's to them and more importantly those around them.

Less long winded answer.... If you compound casual drug users with hardened long term addicts in a situation like a stretch in prison there may be a very high chance upon release those casual users may not be so casual, which creates an ever expanding issue as (by your opinion) we would simply be feeding a beast that gets bigger and bigger.

Sorry about the long post

Lux23

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

I disagree about lsd, if you took lsd every Friday night you would be what's commonly known as a loony

Are you speaking from experience?

Lux23

We need injection spaces so this stuff is off the streets and I disagree with bringing in higher penalties for drug use. Health first policies are the only way we can help addicts, putting them into prison where drugs are freely available isn't going to solve anything.

Dr Bob

jim salter wrote: »

Yes, but how do you know he wasn't diabetic?

Usually if you're injecting insulin its into a fatty area ,so shoulders would generally be out . Also most insulin injectors these days look more like epipens than a regular hypodermic needle (short needle attached to a sort of barrel housing, as its usually got a days worth of short term insulin)

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Dr Brown wrote: »

Yeah I'm sure you don't think its normal to be shooting up Heroin in public ?

I's sure you don't read the posts you reply to.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

I disagree about lsd, if you took lsd every Friday night you would be what's commonly known as a loony

Maybe, but you're not going to go around starting fights and pissing in alleyways every Friday night. Also, in fairness, I did say repsonsibly.

There's adifference between drug use and drug ABuse and if the useage is responsible, then there's very few out-ant-out dangerous drugs out there. Heroin is, obviously, one of them but banning multiple drugs because one is dangerous is stupid and THAT is the point I was trying to get across to Dr Brown. Banning heroin on it;s own doesn't work nor does threatening the user/abuser because that's simply NOT the way addiction works.

Ash.J.Williams

Lux23 wrote: »

Are you speaking from experience?

Why is that relevant?

Lux23

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

Why is that relevant?

Well, I am just wondering why you feel qualified to make such a statement.

Ash.J.Williams

Lux23 wrote: »

Well, I am just wondering why you feel qualified to make such a statement.

Yes I am qualified to make such a statement.

Dr Brown

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Maybe, but you're not going to go around starting fights and pissing in alleyways every Friday night. Also, in fairness, I did say repsonsibly.

There's adifference between drug use and drug ABuse and if the useage is responsible, then there's very few out-ant-out dangerous drugs out there. Heroin is, obviously, one of them but banning multiple drugs because one is dangerous is stupid and THAT is the point I was trying to get across to Dr Brown. Banning heroin on it;s own doesn't work nor does threatening the user/abuser because that's simply NOT the way addiction works.

Even if somebody is addicted to Heroin I don't see why they have to take it in the street in broad daylight.

I have known a few alcoholics over the years yet they never drank in parks or on the street.

Alot of these junkies are just selfless and don't give a f**k about anyone but them selves.

soiseztomabel

Dr Brown wrote: »

Even if somebody is addicted to Heroin I don't see why they have to take it in the street in broad daylight.

I have known a few alcoholics over the years yet they never drank in parks or on the street.

Alot of these junkies are just selfless and don't give a f**k about anyone but them selves.

Well at least you've answered one of the reasons why injection facilities are a good idea....

How many of those alcoholics could drink indoors (pub, own home or someones gaff). Addict's risk being booted from hostels if caught using, and rightly so considering there are vulnerable people trying to kick.

From my experience with those in addiction, shooting up or smoking in public is less to do with being selfish and more so related self-preservation of further destitution or just simply desperation.

Ash.J.Williams

I met a junkie in a stairwell mid injection and it was actually heartbreaking as he said "sorry" as I walked passed.

Ash.J.Williams

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Maybe, but you're not going to go around starting fights and pissing in alleyways every Friday night. Also, in fairness, I did say repsonsibly.

There's adifference between drug use and drug ABuse and if the useage is responsible, then there's very few out-ant-out dangerous drugs out there. Heroin is, obviously, one of them but banning multiple drugs because one is dangerous is stupid and THAT is the point I was trying to get across to Dr Brown. Banning heroin on it;s own doesn't work nor does threatening the user/abuser because that's simply NOT the way addiction works.

yes but saying lsd is safer then alcohol is a fairly exact bold statement, before you one even begins to break down the various scenarios. to me , it says it's safe to take ONE lsd tab on a fri night and possibly a Saturday and that's not at all healthy.

soiseztomabel

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

I met a junkie in a stairwell mid injection and it was actually heartbreaking as he said "sorry" as I walked passed.

That is pretty heatbreaking

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

Yes I am qualified to make such a statement.

Qurestion was "why" and it's something I'd like answered, too.

Dr Brown wrote: »

Even if somebody is addicted to Heroin I don't see why they have to take it in the street in broad daylight.

I have known a few alcoholics over the years yet they never drank in parks or on the street.

Alot of these junkies are just selfless and don't give a f**k about anyone but them selves.

Said the person who just wants it all swept under the carpet?

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

yes but saying lsd is safer then alcohol is a fairly exact bold statement, before you one even begins to break down the various scenarios. to me , it says it's safe to take ONE lsd tab on a fri night and possibly a Saturday and that's not at all healthy.

Again, I did say "when used responsibly"

I'd also dispute your knowledge of drugs if you think that last sentence is any any way accurate or representative, and it most certainly implies you did not read my post. Any LSD user will tell you that it is extremely rare to take LSD on two consecutive nights. Not to mention counter-productive because the brain will have nowhere near enough time to process the first one, and consequently the second one will do absolutly nothing.

Ash.J.Williams

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Qurestion was "why" and it's something I'd like answered, too.




Said the person who just wants it all swept under the carpet?



Again, I did say "when used responsibly"

I'd also dispute your knowledge of drugs if you think that last sentence is any any way accurate or representative, and it most certainly implies you did not read my post. Any LSD user will tell you that it is extremely rare to take LSD on two consecutive nights. Not to mention counter-productive because the brain will have nowhere near enough time to process the first one, and consequently the second one will do absolutly nothing.

I was replying to a post that said lsd is safer than alcohol. If that's the case it would be normal to take lsd on a Fri or Sat night or even at lunchtime. If now you're saying that's unrealistic then the post made a wrong comparison.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

I was replying to a post that said lsd is safer than alcohol. If that's the case it would be normal to take lsd on a Fri or Sat night or even at lunchtime. If now you're saying that's unrealistic then the post made a wrong comparison.

I thought you said you were qualified to make statements about LSD...?

How in the name of all that is holy are you equating safety with frequency? Because someone can drink on consecutive nights, you think that I'm therefore implying that that's the exact same way LSD works...?

Dr Brown

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Said the person who just wants it all swept under the carpet?

And what do you propose we do just let Junkies shoot up in broad daylight and let them throw their needles on the ground ?