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Do the Gardas turn a blind eye to drug use in Dublin ?

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    #32
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    Anyone see the documentary on I believe it was one of the sky channels.

    Very informative it was to the epidemic hitting the US.

    Opioids which in the 90's were said to be addictive and should not be prescribed for everything and so on.

    Then in 2000's it changed where doctors were told ah it's grand they are in no way addictive etc.

    It's gone so bad now people that need long term pain relief it's cheaper to buy the heroin etc then it is the prescription drugs for their cronic pain.

    Very sad way to end up.

    Obviously it doesn't pull everyone in but many even ones who worked, had a house and good jobs have been ruined.


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    #33
    joeysoap
    Registered Users Posts: 6,238 ✭✭✭joeysoap


    soiseztomabel wrote: »
    Do posters here think the supervised injection facilities are a good or a bad thing ?

    I think we’d learn a lot from Portugal. Not illegal to use any drug. Still illegal to have more than enough for ‘personal’ use though. First country in the world to give it a go, and by all accounts it’s working.

    On Assignment on ITV visited Portugal on Monday, to see how it works. No drug deaths in the last year according to the program.

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/dec/05/portugals-radical-drugs-policy-is-working-why-hasnt-the-world-copied-it


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    #34
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 29,010 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    joeysoap wrote: »
    I think we’d learn a lot from Portugal. Not illegal to use any drug. Still illegal to have more than enough for ‘personal’ use though. First country in the world to give it a go, and by all accounts it’s working.

    On Assignment on ITV visited Portugal on Monday, to see how it works. No drug deaths in the last year according to the program.

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/dec/05/portugals-radical-drugs-policy-is-working-why-hasnt-the-world-copied-it

    i do think the approach of countries such as Portugal is probably the better way to go, but i think it would be naive of us to think, its truly working, id imagine complications are created and have been created by such an approach, i.e. theres no one hit wonder here, all approaches creates its own problems


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    #35
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    ..and this will solve the problem by?

    I think that the Gardai are doing the right thing.
    There’s no pressure on any individual at all now to take any personal responsibilty for their own health and welfare, more or less any circumstances you find yourself in can be blamed on somebody/thing else and everybody is a “victim” and has to be looked after by the state unconditionally with no pressure on the individual to endure any discomfort or hardship whatsoever.
    Most of the burglaries handbag snatches etc that affect honest law abiding citizens are as a result of addiction issues but the addict is returned to the community in double quick time on a vague promise of attending rehab which he or she has no notion of doing. So arresting addicts is a waste of time and effort.
    Eventually the addicts in the city center will start to outnumber the regular working/shopping guys and girls and tourists and overseas employees and genuinely vulnerable people like pensioners will stay out in the suburbs or down the country or overseas and the addicts will be left to fight amongst themselves in what will have become the only capital city centre that is one big no go area in the world.


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    #36
    Hellrazer
    Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,617 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hellrazer


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    i do think the approach of countries such as Portugal is probably the better way to go, but i think it would be naive of us to think, its truly working, id imagine complications are created and have been created by such an approach, i.e. theres no one hit wonder here, all approaches creates its own problems

    But it actually is truly working.

    Just some of the stats.

    60% increase in uptake of drug treatment.
    90% drop in new HIV drug related infections.
    Drug related criminal cases decreased.

    That alone should give any government at least the will to try it out.

    The dissuasion committees can still give out penaltys for drug use.
    The committees have a broad range of sanctions available to them when ruling on the drug use offence.

    These include:
    Fines, ranging from €25 to €150. These figures are based on the Portuguese minimum wage of about €485 (Banco de Portugal, 2001) and translate into hours of work lost.

    Suspension of the right to practice if the user has a licensed profession (e.g. medical doctor, taxi driver) and may endanger another person or someone's possessions.

    Ban on visiting certain places (e.g. specific clubbing venues).

    Ban on associating with specific other persons.

    Foreign travel ban.

    Requirement to report periodically to the committee.

    Withdrawal of the right to carry a gun.

    Confiscation of personal possessions.

    Cessation of subsidies or allowances that a person receives from a public agency


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    #37
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 29,010 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Hellrazer wrote: »
    But it actually is truly working.

    Just some of the stats.

    60% increase in uptake of drug treatment.
    90% drop in new HIV drug related infections.
    Drug related criminal cases decreased.

    That alone should give any government at least the will to try it out.

    The dissuasion committees can still give out penaltys for drug use.

    'truly working', what does this actually mean, as i suspect, thats actually a highly subjective term? im not disputing your stats, but i think we should always be wary of stats, as they can in fact be highly manipulated and biased to prove success. again, i do think Portugals approach is probably one of the best approachs to dealing with these kind of complex social issues


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    #38
    Hellrazer
    Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,617 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hellrazer


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    'truly working', what does this actually mean, as i suspect, thats actually a highly subjective term?

    It probably is subjective but they have compared it to what was there before and have shown a drop in what Ive listed above.

    im not disputing your stats, but i think we should always be wary of stats, as they can in fact be highly manipulated and biased to prove success. again, i do think Portugals approach is probably one of the best approachs to dealing with these kind of complex social issues

    The Portugese model has to be worth a shot though. What we have at the minute is definitely not working. Its not working for the public/ tourists and its definitely not working for those addicts that do want some way to become clean. Theres only 7 public detox beds in the country. That's not enough.
    Addicts are relying on charity based and community based treatments and while these are doing their best they are next to useless.


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    #39
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    The druggies are brazen only because the civilians aren't going to do anything about it. And the Gardai are busy with crime that affect actual people, not just merely eyesores.

    You want a clean city centre? Start acting as soon as you see something, even if it is just shouting from afar.
    Be the change you want to see in others.


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    #40
    soiseztomabel
    Registered Users Posts: 401 ✭✭soiseztomabel


    Pauliedragon wrote: »
    Great idea. I lived in Sydney when they opened up one and the number of overdoses and needles on the streets fell dropped massively.

    Personally the result of these facilities speak for themselves. In fact, if this was idea was courted maybe 2 decades ago i think Dublin may have been a different place entirely. Sadly for all the liberal and progressive aspirations we have about ourselves as a nation the general attitude of the public seems to be "**** that".


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    #41
    Dr Brown
    Registered Users Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭Dr Brown


    If we had a zero tolerance approach were anyone caught with drugs got a minimum of 5 years in jail I think drug users would disappear pretty quickly from the city centre.


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    #42
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 29,010 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Dr Brown wrote:
    If we had a zero tolerance approach were anyone caught with drugs got a minimum of 5 years in jail I think drug users would disappear pretty quickly from the city centre.


    It ll be interesting to see how this works out in the Philippines!


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    #43
    Dr Brown
    Registered Users Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭Dr Brown


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    It ll be interesting to see how this works out in the Philippines!




    I heard that over there they drop drug dealers out of helicopters.


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    #44
    harry Bailey esq
    Registered Users Posts: 4,814 ✭✭✭harry Bailey esq


    Dr Brown wrote: »
    definitely a junkie he and his mate were also drinking cans of beer.

    Beer :eek:
    Definitely hardcore yakbags :rolleyes:
    Opiates and alcohol don't make pleasant bedfellows. Did you go to Hollywood upstairs medical school also?


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    #45
    Eircom_Sucks
    Registered Users Posts: 3,193 ✭✭✭Eircom_Sucks


    Too busy fining people who have no nct than tackle real issues like drugs

    Got stopped by garda wed night , i taxed my car and insured it on same day , dif this on monday and hadnt received my discs , but the harrassment and attitude towards me stunk , takes them 2 secs to radio in to indeed find out i was taxed and insured , but god no that was too much effort to the pricks , power tripping ****

    They’d never go near a junkie , that needs a person with balls and they don’t have it


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    #46
    mickuhaha
    Registered Users Posts: 475 ✭✭mickuhaha


    Since we're giving junkies injection centres will we also supply brothel's for prostitute's er to protect them, maybe give thieves a warehouse and give out gun safes .. where do we stop. Maybe we should get rid of laws and see what happens.


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    #47
    Hellrazer
    Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,617 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hellrazer


    mickuhaha wrote: »
    Since we're giving junkies injection centres will we also supply brothel's for prostitute's er to protect them, maybe give thieves a warehouse and give out gun safes .. where do we stop. Maybe we should get rid of laws and see what happens.

    Don't be stupid.


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    #48
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,945 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    Dr Brown wrote: »
    If we had a zero tolerance approach were anyone caught with drugs got a minimum of 5 years in jail I think drug users would disappear pretty quickly from the city centre.

    The USA had a zero tolerance policy, the infamous 3 strikes law, and that worked really well in reducing crime and drug use there.


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    #49
    Caliden
    Registered Users Posts: 5,982 ✭✭✭Caliden


    Del2005 wrote: »
    The USA had a zero tolerance policy, the infamous 3 strikes law, and that worked really well in reducing crime and drug use there.

    In America there's profit to be made from arresting people and putting them in prison.


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    #50
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,945 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    Caliden wrote: »
    In America there's profit to be made from arresting people and putting them in prison.

    The private prisons came about because they were locking so many people up. They still have the highest per capita prison population and they still have a massive problem with drugs. So zero tolerance doesn't work while decriminalisation does.


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    #51
    off.the.walls
    Registered Users Posts: 1,298 ✭✭✭off.the.walls


    crusier wrote: »
    What did you do about it?

    He shouldn't have to do anything about it its not his job!


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    #52
    begbysback
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,910 ✭✭✭begbysback


    Dr Brown wrote: »
    I got out of the area ASAP.

    As a doctor it seems you failed in your obligation to ensure injection was administered correctly.


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    #53
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,241 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Dr Brown wrote: »
    If we had a zero tolerance approach were anyone caught with drugs got a minimum of 5 years in jail I think drug users would disappear pretty quickly from the city centre.

    Before I get into this debate (and I've been in it many times) I always have to ask the clarifying question: what exactly do you mean by "drugs"?

    And bear in mind, I'm not looking for examples. I'm looking for an actually meaning.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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    #54
    begbysback
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,910 ✭✭✭begbysback


    Caliden wrote: »
    In America there's profit to be made from arresting people and putting them in prison.

    Never can quite understand this - you are saying we can build, house people, feed people, give them clothes and train professionals to watch over them, and make money from this?

    One question sir - then why do we have a housing and homeless crisis?


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    #55
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,241 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    begbysback wrote: »
    Never can quite understand this - you are saying we can build, house people, feed people, give them clothes and train professionals to watch over them, and make money from this?

    One question sir - then why do we have a housing and homeless crisis?

    Because entrepueners know that that there's no profit to be made from homeless people.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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    #56
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,945 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    begbysback wrote: »
    Never can quite understand this - you are saying we can build, house people, feed people, give them clothes and train professionals to watch over them, and make money from this?

    One question sir - then why do we have a housing and homeless crisis?

    Generally people don't like going to jail, unless you are a Japanese pensioner.


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    #57
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »
    Before I get into this debate (and I've been in it many times) I always have to ask the clarifying question: what exactly do you mean by "drugs"?

    And bear in mind, I'm not looking for examples. I'm looking for an actually meaning.


    a medicine or other substance which has a physiological effect when ingested or otherwise introduced into the body.

    I'm presuming the op is talking about illegal ones. Not like Rennies or aspirin etc


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    #58
    Dr Brown
    Registered Users Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭Dr Brown


    Del2005 wrote: »
    The USA had a zero tolerance policy, the infamous 3 strikes law, and that worked really well in reducing crime and drug use there.


    Zero tolerance does work in china.


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    #59
    Dr Brown
    Registered Users Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭Dr Brown


    Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »
    Before I get into this debate (and I've been in it many times) I always have to ask the clarifying question: what exactly do you mean by "drugs"?

    And bear in mind, I'm not looking for examples. I'm looking for an actually meaning.




    I'm talking about illegal illicit substances.


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    #60
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,241 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    evolving_doors wrote: »
    a medicine or other substance which has a physiological effect when ingested or otherwise introduced into the body.

    I'm presuming the op is talking about illegal ones. Not like Rennies or aspirin etc

    So why the distinction? Why not the dangerous ones rather than the illegal ones? I mean, I'm assuming he is doing this because he wants a safer society (but perhaps I'm wrong)

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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    #61
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,241 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Dr Brown wrote: »
    I'm talking about illegal illicit substances.

    Drugs are not illegal illicit substances.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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