Do other countries give people money and houses like we do?

corner of hells

irishrebe wrote: »

I'm not having a fit. I thought I had made it more than clear that I was a low earner and struggling, while watching people who weren't working at all have an easier time of it. Not sure what part of that you didn't understand. Means testing is pointless when some jobsworth in an office is going 'ah sure you're working full time, so you don't need any help'. There's no point in looking at how many hours you work or how much you earn if what you need to pay out isn't taken into account. Plenty of people are working, not entitled to any help, and stone cold broke.

So you tried for a medical card and HAP ?

irishrebe

Deleted User wrote: »

irishrebe wrote: »

Jesus Christ. I know they're means tested. The point is that the means testing isn't fit for purpose. If someone can't afford to go to the doctor when they're sick, then they are in need, regardless of whether or not they're in a full time job. I was taking home little over 1000 euro a month. By the time I'd paid for my rented room, bills, food, transport costs, I barely had anything left at all to live on. Are you really trying to tell me I was better off than someone getting 750 a month on the dole, with their rent paid for and no commuting costs? Seriously?

I love how people think the unemployed have zero living costs, and 750 euro pocket money to spend per month!

Where did I say that? I didn't. I said they have their rent paid (and sometimes bills too, depending on the set-up) and their medical costs covered, and they don't have any commuting costs because they don't have a job. By the time I'd paid my rent, bills and commuting costs, I only had about 300 euros left compared to their 750. And I had to pay my own medical costs out of that, as well as everything they needed to pay for like food and clothes.

irishrebe

Dial Hard wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

I love how people think the unemployed have zero living costs, and 750 euro pocket money to spend per month!

She never said she thinks that.

I don't know why people are being so deliberately obtuse.  I can totally understand Irishrebe's frustration with the system.  I spent several months on the dole last year and got offered some casual work here and there during that time and while I always took it because, like Irishrebe, I wanted to work, there were a few times where I wondered why I bothered because after my payment was adjusted, I was pretty much working for nothing.

Probably because they've never been in a position where they'd have been better off on the dole like we have.

irishrebe

irishrebe wrote: »

Where did I say that? I didn't. I said they have their rent paid (and sometimes bills too, depending on the set-up) and their medical costs covered, and they don't have any commuting costs because they don't have a job. By the time I'd paid my rent, bills and commuting costs, I only had about 300 euros left compared to their 750. And I had to pay my own medical costs out of that, as well as everything they needed to pay for like food and clothes.

No, unemployed people don't have their rent and bills paid. There is nothing enviable about living in the dole. It's easy to look through the neighbour's window and believe they have it better.

Wheeliebin30

[Deleted User] wrote: »

No, unemployed people don't have their rent and bills paid. There is nothing enviable about living in the dole. It's easy to look through the neighbour's window and believe they have it better.

Em if they are unemployed how are they paying their rent and bills??

Wheeliebin30

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Em if they are unemployed how are they paying their rent and bills??

Out of their dole.

Wheeliebin30

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Out of their dole.

Exactly, so it is paid for by someone else for them.

Blaas4life

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Exactly, so it is paid for by someone else for them.

By this logic peoples wages and bills paid outta em are paid by their employer?

irishrebe

Deleted User wrote: »

irishrebe wrote: »

Where did I say that? I didn't. I said they have their rent paid (and sometimes bills too, depending on the set-up) and their medical costs covered, and they don't have any commuting costs because they don't have a job. By the time I'd paid my rent, bills and commuting costs, I only had about 300 euros left compared to their 750. And I had to pay my own medical costs out of that, as well as everything they needed to pay for like food and clothes.

No, unemployed people don't have their rent and bills paid. There is nothing enviable about living in the dole. It's easy to look through the neighbour's window and believe they have it better.

You think? When I lived in Dublin I knew dozens of people who were having their rent paid or living in state subsidised housing.

irishrebe

irishrebe wrote: »

You think? When I lived in Dublin I knew dozens of people who were having their rent paid or living in state subsidised housing.

Dozens. I've known a few too. I've known most others unable to find accommodation within the allowance limits and paid the full whack from their own pockets.I know I had to.

And I've never heard of anyone having their bills paid for them.

James Brown

irishrebe wrote: »

You think? When I lived in Dublin I knew dozens of people who were having their rent paid or living in state subsidised housing.

So why don't you walk in the dole and ask for the same, or is it these people were either working, but poor or unemployed?

irishrebe

Deleted User wrote: »

irishrebe wrote: »

You think? When I lived in Dublin I knew dozens of people who were having their rent paid or living in state subsidised housing.

Dozens. I've known a few too. I've known most others unable to find accommodation within the allowance limits and paid the full whack from their own pockets.I know I had to.

And I've never heard of anyone having their bills paid for them.

OK, so IF they had to pay their own rent (without being limited to being near work), they still were in receipt of medical cards and had no commuting costs, so still not really any worse off than someone working for a low wage.

Wheeliebin30

Blaas4life wrote: »

By this logic peoples wages and bills paid outta em are paid by their employer?

Yes but you earn your wage by been productive and giving back.

The dole on the other hand..

Nice try to spin things but utterly ridiculous comparison.

Blaas4life

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Yes but you earn your wage by been productive and giving back.

The dole on the other hand..

Nice try to spin things but utterly ridiculous comparison.

Emm no its not a ridiculous comparison....how is it??


Is dole people's money to spend as they need (same as wages)....what is ridiculous comparison of that??

Childish nonsense to suggest so

Wheeliebin30

Blaas4life wrote: »

Emm no its not a ridiculous comparison....how is it??


Is dole people's money to spend as they need (same as wages)....what is ridiculous comparison of that??

Childish nonsense to suggest so

What??

Seriously, you think someone paying for stuff with money they got for doing nothing is the same as someone paying for something they got by working for it and earning it?

Ah you’re on a wind up here.

irishrebe

irishrebe wrote: »

OK, so IF they had to pay their own rent (without being limited to being near work), they still were in receipt of medical cards and had no commuting costs, so still not really any worse off than someone working for a low wage.

You got it.
Not any better off than people in low wage jobs.

I do think it's important to reiterate that medical cards and GP visit cards are means tested and not limited to the unemployed. Shocking that many low wage workers don't realise they can apply for these, and HAP too.

Blaas4life

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

What??

Seriously, you think someone paying for stuff with money they got for doing nothing is the same as someone paying for something they got by working for it and earning it?

Ah you’re on a wind up here.

Em....I didn't say that or anything approaching it...work on your compensation skills kid and cool off the perpetually outraged soup for a minute


I said someone paying for something out of money they got is there own business once they get the money....otherwise to apply your logic laterally gIves employers a stake in everything you buy from wages??


How/why you've twisted this into an attempt to attack me and refer to my point (which is the logical endpoint of yours) as ridcolus is something by you liberals I'll never understand

Wheeliebin30

Blaas4life wrote: »

Em....I didn't say that or anything approaching it...work on your compensation skills kid and cool off the perpetually outraged soup for a minute


I said someone paying for something out of money they got is there own business once they get the money....otherwise to apply your logic laterally gIves employers a stake in everything you buy from wages??


How/why you've twisted this into an attempt to attack me and refer to my point (which is the logical endpoint of yours) as ridcolus is something by you liberals I'll never understand

You said unemployed people’s rent and bills aren’t paid for by others.

I showed they in fact are, simple as that.

Someone gets 1200 euro a month for HAP and their unemployed who has footed that bull?

Blaas4life

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

You said unemployed people’s rent and bills aren’t paid for by others.

Emm no I didn't???


Where did I say this....your attempts to misrepsent me are contemptuous tbh and typical leftist fantasy nonsense

Wheeliebin30

[Deleted User] wrote: »

No, unemployed people don't have their rent and bills paid. There is nothing enviable about living in the dole. It's easy to look through the neighbour's window and believe they have it better.

Here.

Wheeliebin30

Blaas4life wrote: »

Emm no I didn't???


Where did I say this....your attempts to misrepsent me are contemptuous tbh and typical leftist fantasy nonsense

Me leftist????

Lol you must be new around here.

Blaas4life

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Me leftist????

Lol you must be new around here.

Well your certainly not truthful or logical in your arguement and partake In deliberately misrepresenting and ridiculing me at least when I query your point/aplply logic to your point?

Wheeliebin30

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Here.

Think you better check who you're replying to!

Ken McCarthy

I am not in much of a habit of replying to threads on Boards but it seems every day now there is another dole / unemployed / welfare / poor bashing thread that seems to suggest all of the ills in society are caused by this vast underclass of people who prefer to sit at home in their pyjamas watching Jeremy Kyle getting handout after handout while the rest of us are worked to the bone to pay for their lifestyle.

Despite the fact that this has been shown time and again to be untrue it doesn't seem to stop the "I never got anything brigade" getting up on their high horses while forgetting about all of the things that they do actually get. With real wages almost stagnant for the past ten years and an increasing race to the bottom in zero hour and minimum wage contracts, the prospect of a full and gainfully employed population on a wage adequate to pay for their housing, healthcare and a reasonable standard of living is getting to be a more distant dream by the day.

In my own opinion, the time for a universal basic income for all has come and it would at the very least eliminate the whole us versus them argument that is constantly trotted out and it may just lead to a fairer society at the same time. To those that would have welfare in all of its forms eliminated, I would ask the question as to what do we do with all of those misfortunate or unfortunate enough to be unable to provide for themselves? A return to the poorhouse perhaps? I would prefer to not live in a society like that thanks.

The old chestnut about those on welfare paying no tax or no rent etc. this is another misinformed rant. There will always be some contribution to rent and as far as I recall with rent allowance or HAP it is a minimum of €30 a week which would come from your €188 a week payment. The tax thing is another red herring as taxes on consumption such as VAT and excise is levied regardless of employment status and as far as I remember the amount collected from these taxes is about the same as what is collected in income tax.

If we start going down the road that those that are fortunate enough to have a job and pay tax are in some way better or more deserving citizens then surely those that pay the most tax are the most deserving of all, by that logic I would guess that the state should be in the service of the Michael O'Leary's of the world and not all of its citizens equally as I would have expected it to be.

The poor deserving or otherwise were not the ones that bankrupted this country yet now that we are slowly getting back on our feet we seem to want to blame them. Magicians use this type of distraction to fool our eyes and perform their tricks and I would suggest that it is the same now with the bankers / politicians / elites who would prefer we look at the poor rather than examine some or all of what they are doing.

Galwayguy35

Ken McCarthy wrote: »

I am not in much of a habit of replying to threads on Boards but it seems every day now there is another dole / unemployed / welfare / poor bashing thread that seems to suggest all of the ills in society are caused by this vast underclass of people who prefer to sit at home in their pyjamas watching Jeremy Kyle getting handout after handout while the rest of us are worked to the bone to pay for their lifestyle.

Despite the fact that this has been shown time and again to be untrue it doesn't seem to stop the "I never got anything brigade" getting up on their high horses while forgetting about all of the things that they do actually get. With real wages almost stagnant for the past ten years and an increasing race to the bottom in zero hour and minimum wage contracts, the prospect of a full and gainfully employed population on a wage adequate to pay for their housing, healthcare and a reasonable standard of living is getting to be a more distant dream by the day.

In my own opinion, the time for a universal basic income for all has come and it would at the very least eliminate the whole us versus them argument that is constantly trotted out and it may just lead to a fairer society at the same time. To those that would have welfare in all of its forms eliminated, I would ask the question as to what do we do with all of those misfortunate or unfortunate enough to be unable to provide for themselves? A return to the poorhouse perhaps? I would prefer to not live in a society like that thanks.

The old chestnut about those on welfare paying no tax or no rent etc. this is another misinformed rant. There will always be some contribution to rent and as far as I recall with rent allowance or HAP it is a minimum of €30 a week which would come from your €188 a week payment. The tax thing is another red herring as taxes on consumption such as VAT and excise is levied regardless of employment status and as far as I remember the amount collected from these taxes is about the same as what is collected in income tax.

If we start going down the road that those that are fortunate enough to have a job and pay tax are in some way better or more deserving citizens then surely those that pay the most tax are the most deserving of all, by that logic I would guess that the state should be in the service of the Michael O'Leary's of the world and not all of its citizens equally as I would have expected it to be.

The poor deserving or otherwise were not the ones that bankrupted this country yet now that we are slowly getting back on our feet we seem to want to blame them. Magicians use this type of distraction to fool our eyes and perform their tricks and I would suggest that it is the same now with the bankers / politicians / elites who would prefer we look at the poor rather than examine some or all of what they are doing.

Nobody is suggesting that everyone on welfare is a scammer and I don't know one person who would have a problem with a person claiming welfare after they lose their job and while they are looking for another one or people who can't work due to disability.

But if someone is years on the dole for a non medical reason then I'd say it's reasonable to assume they would be one of the significant minority who are playing the system.

As for your last point it wasn't ordinary working people who bankrupted the country either but it was us who took pay cuts and paid extra taxes to turn things around.

Any suggestion that working people might get some tax relief is jumped on immediately by the far left and SJW's shouting about the 'most vulnerable' even though the yearly budget spend on welfare runs into billions.