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Do other countries give people money and houses like we do?

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13

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    #62
    Wheeliebin30
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,593 ✭✭✭Wheeliebin30


    irishrebe wrote: »
    This is absolutely how I felt when I still lived in Dublin. Scraping together money to go to the doctor, and often not going when I needed to, while neighbours who hadn't worked in years were going once a week for every last little stupid thing. Buying clothes in charity shops, if at all, while neighbours were coming home with shopping bags every weekend. Getting up at 5am to wait in the freezing cold and pouring rain for the bus to get to work while they were getting up at 10-11 to go out to the shop in their pyjamas. It drove me half mental. I was working so hard and my life wasn't a bit better than people who weren't working at all. I was paying taxes to support people who weren't fcked working. Now I know a lot of people can't work, and that's why social welfare is there, but plenty of people are just taking the absolute p1ss. I felt like there was no reward for working hard in Ireland.

    According to our left Sinn Fein aaa supporters here me and you are imagining this, we are neo liberal pro landlord rabble rabble....

    They say it doesn’t happen, but isn’t it strange how many people here can tell stories of abuse????

    We must be all lying.


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    #63
    RustyNut
    Registered Users Posts: 3,430 ✭✭✭RustyNut


    Wheeliebin30 wrote: »
    According to our left Sinn Fein aaa supporters here me and you are imagining this, we are neo liberal pro landlord rabble rabble....

    They say it doesn’t happen, but isn’t it strange how many people here can tell stories of abuse????

    We must be all lying.

    I tell the kids stories about unicorns doesn't mean they are true.


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    #64
    irishrebe
    Registered Users Posts: 612 ✭✭✭irishrebe


    oneilla wrote: »
    irishrebe wrote: »
    This is absolutely how I felt when I still lived in Dublin. Scraping together money to go to the doctor, and often not going when I needed to, while neighbours who hadn't worked in years were going once a week for every last little stupid thing. Buying clothes in charity shops, if at all, while neighbours were coming home with shopping bags every weekend. Getting up at 5am to wait in the freezing cold and pouring rain for the bus to get to work while they were getting up at 10-11 to go out to the shop in their pyjamas. It drove me half mental. I was working so hard and my life wasn't a bit better than people who weren't working at all. I was paying taxes to support people who weren't fcked working. Now I know a lot of people can't work, and that's why social welfare is there, but plenty of people are just taking the absolute p1ss. I felt like there was no reward for working hard in Ireland.

    If you were in work then how did you see the neighbours going to the shops at 10? Hmm...
    I know some smart ass was going to ask this. I worked weekends so got a day off during the week, a different day every week, and on every day off I saw them doing it. Any other questions?


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    #65
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    irishrebe wrote: »
    I know some smart ass was going to ask this. I worked weekends so got a day off during the week, a different day every week, and on every day off I saw them doing it. Any other questions?

    Were they better off than you?


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    #66
    oneilla
    Registered Users Posts: 1,168 ✭✭✭oneilla


    irishrebe wrote: »
    I know some smart ass was going to ask this. I worked weekends so got a day off during the week, a different day every week, and on every day off I saw them doing it. Any other questions?

    Was it always raining? I mean, that's just bad luck.


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    #67
    irishrebe
    Registered Users Posts: 612 ✭✭✭irishrebe


    Deleted User wrote: »
    irishrebe wrote: »
    I know some smart ass was going to ask this. I worked weekends so got a day off during the week, a different day every week, and on every day off I saw them doing it. Any other questions?

    Were they better off than you?
    Depends what way you look at it. At the time, I'd say yes, they were. They had a better lifestyle than I did even though I was working all hours in a horrible, stressful, low-paid job. They didn't need to worry about not having enough money to see the doctor. They didn't have to get up at an insanely early time and spend an hour and a half getting into work using several different buses. Etc etc. I'd say in the long term, I'm better off, but only because I have a Master's now and marketable skills like foreign languages. Those people I worked with in the call centre, who stayed years after I left? I wouldn't say they were much better off. They had to pay for all the stuff the dole-lifers got for free, and had very little disposable income left. They had to sacrifice things like seeing their kids, hobbies and even getting enough sleep for very little reward. It's galling when you're working so hard for so many hours and you see people all around you who have a better lifestyle (in terms of housing and disposable income) for doing fck all. It's very easy to wonder 'what's the point?'


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    #68
    irishrebe
    Registered Users Posts: 612 ✭✭✭irishrebe


    oneilla wrote: »
    irishrebe wrote: »
    I know some smart ass was going to ask this. I worked weekends so got a day off during the week, a different day every week, and on every day off I saw them doing it. Any other questions?

    Was it always raining? I mean, that's just bad luck.
    It's Ireland. What do you think?


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    #69
    Taytoland
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,067 ✭✭✭Taytoland


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    Taytoland wrote: »
    The left complain about a housing problem and yet want open borders and anyone can come in, just fly right in, take a seat lads, everything is free and you will get free housing. Idiots.

    No, you are confusing the “left” with colonial settlers and their racist ethnic cleansing.
    Yes, the lefts ideal state.


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    #70
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    irishrebe wrote: »
    Depends what way you look at it. At the time, I'd say yes, they were. They had a better lifestyle than I did even though I was working all hours in a horrible, stressful, low-paid job. They didn't need to worry about not having enough money to see the doctor. They didn't have to get up at an insanely early time and spend an hour and a half getting into work using several different buses. Etc etc. I'd say in the long term, I'm better off, but only because I have a Master's now and marketable skills like foreign languages. Those people I worked with in the call centre, who stayed years after I left? I wouldn't say they were much better off. They had to pay for all the stuff the dole-lifers got for free, and had very little disposable income left. They had to sacrifice things like seeing their kids, hobbies and even getting enough sleep for very little reward. It's galling when you're working so hard for so many hours and you see people all around you who have a better lifestyle (in terms of housing and disposable income) for doing fck all. It's very easy to wonder 'what's the point?'

    You don't have to be unemployed to get a medical card. So your lack of entitlement to one says you were better off than them. Simple that one. You seem to know a lot about their medical circumstances!


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    #71
    Zebra3
    Registered Users Posts: 13,861 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    Taytoland wrote: »
    Yes, the lefts ideal state.

    Hardly. The ideal state of fascists.

    The dream of the likes of the Orange Order.


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    #72
    irishrebe
    Registered Users Posts: 612 ✭✭✭irishrebe


    Deleted User wrote: »
    irishrebe wrote: »
    Depends what way you look at it. At the time, I'd say yes, they were. They had a better lifestyle than I did even though I was working all hours in a horrible, stressful, low-paid job. They didn't need to worry about not having enough money to see the doctor. They didn't have to get up at an insanely early time and spend an hour and a half getting into work using several different buses. Etc etc. I'd say in the long term, I'm better off, but only because I have a Master's now and marketable skills like foreign languages. Those people I worked with in the call centre, who stayed years after I left? I wouldn't say they were much better off. They had to pay for all the stuff the dole-lifers got for free, and had very little disposable income left. They had to sacrifice things like seeing their kids, hobbies and even getting enough sleep for very little reward. It's galling when you're working so hard for so many hours and you see people all around you who have a better lifestyle (in terms of housing and disposable income) for doing fck all. It's very easy to wonder 'what's the point?'

    You don't have to be unemployed to get a medical card. So your lack of entitlement to one says you were better off than them. Simple that one. You seem to know a lot about their medical circumstances!
    I know I wasn't entitled to one, despite being broke as fck and earning crappy wages. Your argument is stupid. You don't have to be unemployed to get one, but you DO get one if you're unemployed. So how are you defining 'better off' here? In terms of actual income, obviously. In terms of lifestyle, I don't think so. Sure, I had more money coming in, but out of that money I had to pay market rate rent, bills, medical costs, etc. so all in all, my disposable income was probably less than theirs. I also had very little free time because of my working hours and commute and ended up spending my little time off doing chores and cleaning. So please tell me again how I was so much better off? Do you think I had over 750 euros a month to spare once rent, commuting costs, etc. were paid?


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    #73
    oceanman
    Registered Users Posts: 1,750 ✭✭✭oceanman


    irishrebe wrote: »
    I know I wasn't entitled to one, despite being broke as fck and earning crappy wages. Your argument is stupid. You don't have to be unemployed to get one, but you DO get one if you're unemployed. So how are you defining 'better off' here? In terms of actual income, obviously. In terms of lifestyle, I don't think so. Sure, I had more money coming in, but out of that money I had to pay market rate rent, bills, medical costs, etc. so all in all, my disposable income was probably less than theirs. I also had very little free time because of my working hours and commute and ended up spending my little time off doing chores and cleaning. So please tell me again how I was so much better off? Do you think I had over 750 euros a month to spare once rent, commuting costs, etc. were paid?
    why didn't you go on the dole yourself?.....I mean if it looked so good ect..


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    #74
    JustAThought
    Registered Users Posts: 5,324 ✭✭✭JustAThought


    oceanman wrote: »
    why didn't you go on the dole yourself?.....I mean if it looked so good ect..

    Maybe because he had a work ethic,wanted to make something of himself and wasn't satisfied beeing a leech on society and a financial parasite.


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    #75
    irishrebe
    Registered Users Posts: 612 ✭✭✭irishrebe


    JustAThought wrote: »
    oceanman wrote: »
    why didn't you go on the dole yourself?.....I mean if it looked so good ect..

    Maybe because he had a work ethic,wanted to make something of himself and wasn't satisfied beeing a leech on society and a financial parasite.
    Yep, pretty much this.


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    #76
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    siblers wrote: »
    You can be full time on minimum wage and you'll be entitled to sweet **** all.

    Because you are not in need. Well done! If that changes, the help will be there for you same as for everyone else,

    I don;t "get" this mentality . Is it begrudgery?

    "Keep your eye on your own page" is a wise way to live.


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    #77
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    Deleted User wrote: »
    You don't have to be unemployed to get a medical card. So your lack of entitlement to one says you were better off than them. Simple that one. You seem to know a lot about their medical circumstances!

    And a medical card is not some "get out of jail" card idea. Believe me!. Public health system is ***********. .


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    #78
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    JustAThought wrote: »
    Maybe because he had a work ethic,wanted to make something of himself and wasn't satisfied beeing a leech on society and a financial parasite.

    Dreadful way to speak of people you do not know.. :eek:


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    #79
    irishrebe
    Registered Users Posts: 612 ✭✭✭irishrebe


    Graces7 wrote: »
    siblers wrote: »
    You can be full time on minimum wage and you'll be entitled to sweet **** all.

    Because you are not in need. Well done! If that changes, the help will be there for you same as for everyone else,

    I don;t "get" this mentality . Is it begrudgery?

    "Keep your eye on your own page" is a wise way to live.
    Do you live in some sort of middle class bubble? People working full time on minimum wage are often very much in need. Or don't you think people having to choose between taking their kid to the doctor and eating dinner is being in need? It's very common for people to be better off on the dole than they would be working. Try earning minimum wage while paying market rate rent, bills, medical costs, transport to work, etc. and tell me you wouldn't be better off on the dole.


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    #80
    irishrebe
    Registered Users Posts: 612 ✭✭✭irishrebe


    Graces7 wrote: »
    Deleted User wrote: »
    You don't have to be unemployed to get a medical card. So your lack of entitlement to one says you were better off than them. Simple that one. You seem to know a lot about their medical circumstances!

    And  a medical card is not some "get out of jail" card idea. Believe me!.  Public health system is ***********. .
    Right, except that low earners still need to pay to see a GP. Would you rather pay 60 euro for a crap service or get it for free?


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    #81
    corner of hells
    Registered Users Posts: 8,365 ✭✭✭corner of hells


    irishrebe wrote: »
    Do you live in some sort of middle class bubble? People working full time on minimum wage are often very much in need. Or don't you think people having to choose between taking their kid to the doctor and eating dinner is being in need? It's very common for people to be better off on the dole than they would be working. Try earning minimum wage while paying market rate rent, bills, medical costs, transport to work, etc. and tell me you wouldn't be better off on the dole.

    It's possible to claim family income support , children's allowance , HAP , claim tax relief on medical bills etc.


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    #82
    irishrebe
    Registered Users Posts: 612 ✭✭✭irishrebe


    corner of hells wrote: »
    irishrebe wrote: »
    Do you live in some sort of middle class bubble? People working full time on minimum wage are often very much in need. Or don't you think people having to choose between taking their kid to the doctor and eating dinner is being in need? It's very common for people to be better off on the dole than they would be working. Try earning minimum wage while paying market rate rent, bills, medical costs, transport to work, etc. and tell me you wouldn't be better off on the dole.

    It's possible to claim family income support , children's allowance , HAP , claim tax relief on medical bills etc.
    Right and if you don't have any kids? Good luck with that. When I was working for min wage, I couldn't afford my own medical bills and nobody gave a flying fck.


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    #83
    corner of hells
    Registered Users Posts: 8,365 ✭✭✭corner of hells


    irishrebe wrote: »
    Right and if you don't have any kids? Good luck with that. When I was working for min wage, I couldn't afford my own medical bills and nobody gave a flying fck.

    With the exception of childrens allowance and OAP pensions nearly every DSP benefit is means tested so I'm assuming you did apply for medical card and were assessed .
    We're all in the same boat , you're not being done out of anything.


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    #84
    irishrebe
    Registered Users Posts: 612 ✭✭✭irishrebe


    corner of hells wrote: »
    irishrebe wrote: »
    Right and if you don't have any kids? Good luck with that. When I was working for min wage, I couldn't afford my own medical bills and nobody gave a flying fck.

    With the exception of childrens allowance and OAP pensions nearly every DSP benefit is means tested so I'm assuming you did apply for medical card and were assessed .
    We're all in the same boat , you're not being done out of anything.
    Jesus Christ. I know they're means tested. The point is that the means testing isn't fit for purpose. If someone can't afford to go to the doctor when they're sick, then they are in need, regardless of whether or not they're in a full time job. I was taking home little over 1000 euro a month. By the time I'd paid for my rented room, bills, food, transport costs, I barely had anything left at all to live on. Are you really trying to tell me I was better off than someone getting 750 a month on the dole, with their rent paid for and no commuting costs? Seriously?


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    #85
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    Can someone explain this;

    We have tax money loaned to private builders, by NAMA, at rates more favourable to them than any bank is willing to offer. They use this money to build private homes and sell them to the state at the going market rate, as Murphy's pretend, 'Social housing'. They also keep prices so high that we have people working who need state aid/welfare to afford rent or buy these places.

    Now how is all this related to the low rates of unemployed, who I assume are vetted and means tested, before they get a shilling? And why are people looking to this even smaller minority of welfare Ninjas who can duck and dive the system and just not work while receiving welfare or parties on 'de left' who've never been in government to set any policies we currently have? Do you know about Fine Gael and Fianna Fail?

    If you are working and can't make ends meet, get up off your lazy arse and get a better job. I dunno, some people want everything for nothing...oh, wait that not very fair is it?
    Maybe we shouldn't be looking at those worse off as the problem. I'm sure the likes of Dinny looks down on the average working tax payer like he/she is a loser too lazy to be as rich as him.


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    #86
    corner of hells
    Registered Users Posts: 8,365 ✭✭✭corner of hells


    irishrebe wrote: »
    Jesus Christ. I know they're means tested. The point is that the means testing isn't fit for purpose. If someone can't afford to go to the doctor when they're sick, then they are in need, regardless of whether or not they're in a full time job. I was taking home little over 1000 euro a month. By the time I'd paid for my rented room, bills, food, transport costs, I barely had anything left at all to live on. Are you really trying to tell me I was better off than someone getting 750 a month on the dole, with their rent paid for and no commuting costs? Seriously?

    I don't know , your first post gave very little context, I replied to that one .I'd hardly be expected to know your personal circumstances.

    Then you seemed to have some sort of convulsion or fit.
    Maybe have a little lie down and try relax.


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    #87
    irishrebe
    Registered Users Posts: 612 ✭✭✭irishrebe


    corner of hells wrote: »
    irishrebe wrote: »
    Jesus Christ. I know they're means tested. The point is that the means testing isn't fit for purpose. If someone can't afford to go to the doctor when they're sick, then they are in need, regardless of whether or not they're in a full time job. I was taking home little over 1000 euro a month. By the time I'd paid for my rented room, bills, food, transport costs, I barely had anything left at all to live on. Are you really trying to tell me I was better off than someone getting 750 a month on the dole, with their rent paid for and no commuting costs? Seriously?

    I don't know , your first post gave very little context, I replied to that one .I'd hardly be expected to know your personal circumstances.

    Then you seemed to have some sort of convulsion or fit.
    Maybe have a little lie down and try relax.
    I'm not having a fit. I thought I had made it more than clear that I was a low earner and struggling, while watching people who weren't working at all have an easier time of it. Not sure what part of that you didn't understand. Means testing is pointless when some jobsworth in an office is going 'ah sure you're working full time, so you don't need any help'. There's no point in looking at how many hours you work or how much you earn if what you need to pay out isn't taken into account. Plenty of people are working, not entitled to any help, and stone cold broke.


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    #88
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    irishrebe wrote: »
    Jesus Christ. I know they're means tested. The point is that the means testing isn't fit for purpose. If someone can't afford to go to the doctor when they're sick, then they are in need, regardless of whether or not they're in a full time job. I was taking home little over 1000 euro a month. By the time I'd paid for my rented room, bills, food, transport costs, I barely had anything left at all to live on. Are you really trying to tell me I was better off than someone getting 750 a month on the dole, with their rent paid for and no commuting costs? Seriously?

    I love how people think the unemployed have zero living costs, and 750 euro pocket money to spend per month!


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    #89
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    Irish Guitarist wrote: »
    When people say it would be a dream come true to live in some really hot country they never seem to think about the fact that they'll have to work their arse off in that country, or that if they ever develop health problems there will be no social welfare to help them and that when it comes to the stage in their life they should be thinking about retiring they'll have nothing.

    I don't see the difference?


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    #90
    Dial Hard
    Registered Users Posts: 13,566 ✭✭✭✭Dial Hard


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I love how people think the unemployed have zero living costs, and 750 euro pocket money to spend per month!

    She never said she thinks that.

    I don't know why people are being so deliberately obtuse. I can totally understand Irishrebe's frustration with the system. I spent several months on the dole last year and got offered some casual work here and there during that time and while I always took it because, like Irishrebe, I wanted to work, there were a few times where I wondered why I bothered because after my payment was adjusted, I was pretty much working for nothing.


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    #91
    Johnnycanyon
    Registered Users Posts: 211 ✭✭Johnnycanyon


    irishrebe wrote: »
    Jesus Christ. I know they're means tested. The point is that the means testing isn't fit for purpose. If someone can't afford to go to the doctor when they're sick, then they are in need, regardless of whether or not they're in a full time job. I was taking home little over 1000 euro a month. By the time I'd paid for my rented room, bills, food, transport costs, I barely had anything left at all to live on. Are you really trying to tell me I was better off than someone getting 750 a month on the dole, with their rent paid for and no commuting costs? Seriously?

    I was on the dole until recently getting a job.. would love to have known how to get my rent paid for me, as far as commuting costs are concerned I didn't get a free travel pass to go into turas nua appointments and for traveling around looking for work.


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