Do other countries give people money and houses like we do?

cardinal tetra

Just watching ivan and co. on tv3. it is a very slow night in the tetra house hold.
the debate is on how neglected health and housing is in leo's first year in office.
do other countries give people free houses and 188 euro a week.
do single mothers get priority for houses or do homeless people get put up in hotels and have assistance from them government? i'm genuinely clueless to this. do the yanks and the canadians do this? i assume mexico dont, i presume the favelas of Brazil mean that the government dont weigh in on homelessness. i dont actually know what the UK do. i know there is council house authorities there and they get like 80 pound on the dole or so but do france, spain, portugal, holland, ermany all do simular like us. i guess what i am asking is are we accomodating to the less well off with benefits in comparison to other countries? are we on a par or are we awful at this stuff.

what is the ideal scenario to deal with a housing crisis for people who want a house for themselves and a roof over their head that dont enter the property market route? is there a balance between giving houses to people who need them and just building houses for everyone who cant afford to buy a house?

Do other countries have social housing and social welfare?

Wow, wouldn't think so.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Yes, op. They do.

kneemos

The weekly dole thread.


Creative at least.

The_Brood

In some countries it would be undreamed of.

Other countries give even more - but then the taxpayers themselves also get a fair amount of benefits, unlike here.

In Ireland, the absolute worst deal is for full time workers on a reasonable (not high) salary.

Omackeral

Only give them to people on disability who will key cars.

relax carry on

Knock yourself out on OECD if you are interested.

http://www.oecd.org/social/affordable-housing-database.htm

http://www.oecd.org/social/benefits-and-wages.htm

suicide_circus

No. Socialism was invented by Bertie Ahern in Drumcondra circa 1989.

doolox

In South America and such like you can build a house in a favela with minimal interference from councils and planning authorities. This does not happen in Ireland or any European country. Planning is the big obstacle to affordable housing. That and access to land.

Our huge problem is that the price of housing has greatly outstripped wages and what ordinary people can earn. Families with two or more children are competing with singles or childless couples sharing housing in the inner city and with adult children living into adulthood with their parents. Family people cannot compete with these at average wages. They are therefore forced to move into neighbouring counties and beyond if the want to have children and work and avoid renting at high cost.

High cost of land, high cost of construction labour and extremely high demand for housing is the cause of this. The current high taxes imposed on landlords also has contributed to a reduction in the pool of available houses for rent and the increasing reluctance of people to enter rental business.

The difficulty of getting rid of unpaying tenants is also a factor because the cost of enforcement is high and the risk of damage to property in the case of disputes is high. Many single house landlords are fleeing the business in the face of this risk.

Tenants in the future will face REITS, huge impersonal corporations with the financial clout to hire legal and technical expertise to enforce tenancy rules and collect overdue rents and damages done to properties much more effectively than small, single house, landlords could. Tenants will be treated this way so that the REITS can serve an example and terrorise other tenants into paying up and conforming to the rules.

The possibility exists that REITS will set up databases recording performance of tenants and their conformance to the rules similar to credit ratings available to finance companies and banks, nobody dares to default on their loans nowadays because of the risk of losing access to credit in the future.

A similar deterrent exists with motor insurance companies in that people with a high risk of claims are forced to pay high premiums for their insurance.

The tragic irony is that tenants in the recent past vilified and demonised the small landlord but they and the government have created a monster that will consume them all in corporate greed and irresistible power.

It will take a very long time to restore confidence in the small time landlord to re enter the letting market.

jimmycrackcorm

We used to be able to build cheap and cheerful council housing estates. But now the only way to get social housing is via a mandatory social inclusion policy from private housing developers.

It gets to a silly point that a developer building an exclusive development of ten x million euro houses has to hand over one of those for some lucky guy on the dole.

But even in a normal scenario where a development sells houses at, say 300k, any social houses will have to be fitted out to better standards than the private buyers. When I bought my house, we only had cardboard boxes to sit on for months and one bedroom with a bed and carpet. You won't get away with that if you're the taxpayer handing over a 300k home for life

Wheeliebin30

Sweden, Norway, Germany, uk, Italy all have more homeless than Ireland.

The list is endless.

We are actually very good at looking after people in need here, don’t believe the left media’s daily onslaught of lies.

We should just have a hunger games style set up and put unemployed people in it
How about that

RobbingBandit

Yes Banks and Mortgages exist worldwide so do real estate agents that is what the OP is obviously referring to

marieholmfan

cardinal tetra wrote: »

Just watching ivan and co.

That was your first mistake!

Graces7

doolox wrote: »

High cost of land, high cost of construction labour and extremely high demand for housing is the cause of this. The current high taxes imposed on landlords also has contributed to a reduction in the pool of available houses for rent and the increasing reluctance of people to enter rental business.

The difficulty of getting rid of unpaying tenants is also a factor because the cost of enforcement is high and the risk of damage to property in the case of disputes is high. Many single house landlords are fleeing the business in the face of this risk.
Tenants in the future will face REITS, huge impersonal corporations with the financial clout to hire legal and technical expertise to enforce tenancy rules and collect overdue rents and damages done to properties much more effectively than small, single house, landlords could. Tenants will be treated this way so that the REITS can serve an example and terrorise other tenants into paying up and conforming to the rules.

The possibility exists that REITS will set up databases recording performance of tenants and their conformance to the rules similar to credit ratings available to finance companies and banks, nobody dares to default on their loans nowadays because of the risk of losing access to credit in the future.

A similar deterrent exists with motor insurance companies in that people with a high risk of claims are forced to pay high premiums for their insurance.

The tragic irony is that tenants in the recent past vilified and demonised the small landlord but they and the government have created a monster that will consume them all in corporate greed and irresistible power.

It will take a very long time to restore confidence in the small time landlord to re enter"

actually the reverse is true
Your entire post is a fiction. And a transparent one. An unconvincing pity party for landlords. The standard of rental accommodation in Ireland especially at the lower end is very poor and many lls opted out rather than fix it... and they had all the power and now have less .
Very very thankful to be out of the private rental market and safe.

topper75

I might wrong but I think the welfare state was a British invention to begin with.
They meant well.
They didn't really insert proper safeguards against people using a safety net as a permanent mattress. And here we are years later.

The key thing about any kind of state-sponsored benefit is there is never any rolling back on it once it is granted.
Attempts to roll back will bring down a government.

Wibbs

topper75 wrote: »

I might wrong but I think the welfare state was a British invention to begin with.

Not quite T. Of the modern variety Germany and France were ahead of them. The notion of social welfare goes a long way back. The Romans introduced food for the poor and they had pensions too. The Chinese had that and free medical and homes for the old and infirm. Ditto for the Islamic world. The Church in Europe was also a provider of aid to the poor.

Your Face

Social welfare is not the problem.
It's the abuse of it.
Like another poster stated, if you re a working person on a low to middle wage, its easy to get the feeling of being made a mug.

Ush1

doolox wrote: »

created a monster that will consume them all in corporate greed and irresistible power.

Jaysus!

JustAThought

No they dont. We are the golden goose for every person who wants a handout of a house without working for it or earning it and the taxpayers in Ireland are becomung the social welfare piggybank of every dreamer,dosser and opportunist on the planet. Who wouldnt want to live in style in a capital city they have no roots or association with free of charge. Who wouldn't want to be handed a house for for life for e30 a week with all maintenance done foc at a phonecall by the taxpayer. This 'homeless crisis' could be fixed if there was the political willpower - stop paying rent 'allowance' , stop facilitating lifelong dossers, start investugatung those who claim to be unemploted or only able to work 19*5 hours a week to keep all their cosy benefits on the back of someone elses hard work flooding in; stop paying social welfare to people who legally fly into the country from EU countries demanding translators at social welfare offices to demand their dole for 'unemployment'/'disability'/'lone parenting' insert excuse and handout housing/rent allowance benefit here - and stop the intergenerational excuses and expectation that 'just' because your great grandfather or uncle had a council flat in the 1950s or 1970's and your family put you on the lease that you have an automatic entitlement to the same despite a celtic tiger and every advantage and education and resource being paid to support you. We do not live in a communist state - why are those that work being taxed to the brink of suicide or emigration while those who want to work the system being facilitated at every turn at their expense? Im all for the disabled and those who need full time care and carers getting 100% suppport from the sytstem - but you never hear of disabled campaigns for council houses or 24/7 carers at home - they know it will never happen. Why not - they have no lobbying agencies or multumillion euro PR agencies of the socialist/communist or labour party behind them. Why are hardworking fathers and mothers who have to go to work to pay their way paying increased taxes for the upbringing of someone elses children that they have allowed their fathers to walk away from their financial responsibilities? Why will the social welfare not deduct automatically from the salaries or dole of fathers who abandon their families and discard their childrens financial responsibility onto other families?Because there is no political will to do so. We are an absolute joke of a nation and are being abused left right and centre by opportunists. It needs to stop.

oneilla

*opens After Hours forum*

*sees a thread entitled "Are people getting thicker?"*


*sees this thread*

*closes After Hours forum*

subpar

Heard this morning on the Radio that there are just over 100,000 people on the housing waiting list. This is an enormous number in a well developed economy and is approx 2% of the entire population. Something is radically wrong if this is a true figure . If the number is grossly inflated then why is it so and if it is not then the state simply cant afford to supply a free house for life to that number of people.

jmayo

Graces7 wrote: »

doolox wrote: »

High cost of land, high cost of construction labour and extremely high demand for housing is the cause of this. The current high taxes imposed on landlords also has contributed to a reduction in the pool of available houses for rent and the increasing reluctance of people to enter rental business.

The difficulty of getting rid of unpaying tenants is also a factor because the cost of enforcement is high and the risk of damage to property in the case of disputes is high. Many single house landlords are fleeing the business in the face of this risk.
Tenants in the future will face REITS, huge impersonal corporations with the financial clout to hire legal and technical expertise to enforce tenancy rules and collect overdue rents and damages done to properties much more effectively than small, single house, landlords could. Tenants will be treated this way so that the REITS can serve an example and terrorise other tenants into paying up and conforming to the rules.

The possibility exists that REITS will set up databases recording performance of tenants and their conformance to the rules similar to credit ratings available to finance companies and banks, nobody dares to default on their loans nowadays because of the risk of losing access to credit in the future.

A similar deterrent exists with motor insurance companies in that people with a high risk of claims are forced to pay high premiums for their insurance.

The tragic irony is that tenants in the recent past vilified and demonised the small landlord but they and the government have created a monster that will consume them all in corporate greed and irresistible power.

It will take a very long time to restore confidence in the small time landlord to re enter"

actually the reverse is true
Your entire post is a fiction. And a transparent one. An unconvincing pity party for landlords. The standard of rental accommodation in Ireland especially at the lower end is very poor and many lls opted out rather than fix it... and they had all the power and now have less .
Very very thankful to be out of the private rental market and safe.

Actually like a lot of other things in Ireland those that break the rules are the ones who really benefit.

If you are law abiding and honest you get screwed over by the unscrupulous and the goudgers.

For example if you are a decent landlord you can end up with tenants that wreck the gaff and refuse to pay rent.
The authorities make the landlord then jump through hoops and follow so many drawn out processes that means the bad tenants could still be in the gaff months later and if the landlord puts a foot wrong they are the ones paying compensation to the tenant.
And after all that if the tenant claims they have no money the landlord gets no compensation for the damage and lost rent.

On the other side if a landlord is a complete scumbag, refuses to bother fixing things, treats the tenants like cr**, breaks the rules regarding allowing tenants enjoy the property as theirs, even illegally evicts them, the tenant can take a case against the landlord and maybe just maybe they might actually get some compensation sometime down the line.

So really you will find the ones that have always acted the spanner, both landlord and tenant, will continue to do so because they nearly always end up financially ahead.

utyh2ikcq9z76b

cardinal tetra wrote: »

do other countries give people free houses and 188 euro a week.

They give €198

corner of hells

jmayo wrote: »

Actually like a lot of other things in Ireland those that break the rules are the ones who really benefit.

If you are law abiding and honest you get screwed over by the unscrupulous and the goudgers.

For example if you are a decent landlord you can end up with tenants that wreck the gaff and refuse to pay rent.
The authorities make the landlord then jump through hoops and follow so many drawn out processes that means the bad tenants could still be in the gaff months later and if the landlord puts a foot wrong they are the ones paying compensation to the tenant.
And after all that if the tenant claims they have no money the landlord gets no compensation for the damage and lost rent.

On the other side if a landlord is a complete scumbag, refuses to bother fixing things, treats the tenants like cr**, breaks the rules regarding allowing tenants enjoy the property as theirs, even illegally evicts them, the tenant can take a case against the landlord and maybe just maybe they might actually get some compensation sometime down the line.

So really you will find the ones that have always acted the spanner, both landlord and tenant, will continue to do so because they nearly always end up financially ahead.

Landlords now are using agents more and more along with asking for work references , references from previous landlords as well as enquiring about bank details in the hope of identifying possible problem tenants.

wakka12

Yes, like every other developed nation that you would want to live in

HydroTendonMan

I am baffled by some of the posts on this forum. The idea of someone 'coasting' on €188 a week is absolute nonsense, even with additional allowances. It is very obvious that these posters have not been in that unfortunate situation themselves.

If you want to reel off on people abusing the state's money look to the top of the scale, not the bottom.

El Weirdo

JustAThought wrote: »

No they dont. We are the golden goose for every person who wants a handout of a house without working for it or earning it and the taxpayers in Ireland are becomung the social welfare piggybank of every dreamer,dosser and opportunist on the planet. Who wouldnt want to live in style in a capital city they have no roots or association with free of charge. Who wouldn't want to be handed a house for for life for e30 a week with all maintenance done foc at a phonecall by the taxpayer. This 'homeless crisis' could be fixed if there was the political willpower - stop paying rent 'allowance' , stop facilitating lifelong dossers, start unvestugatung thise who claim to be ynemploted or only able to work 19*5 hours a week to keep all their cosy benefits on the back of someone elses hard work flooding in; stop paying social welfare to people who legally fly into the country from EU countries demanding translators at social welfare offices to demand their dole for 'unemployment'/'disability'/'lone parenting' insert excuse and handout housing/rwnt allowance benefit here - and stop the intergenerational excuses and expectation that 'just' because your great grandfather or uncle had a council flat in the 1950s or 1970's and your family put you on the lease that you have an autimatic entitlement to the same despite a celtuc tiger and every advantage and education and resource being paid to support you. We do not live in a communist state - why are those that work being taxed to the brink of suicide or emigration while those who want to work the system being facilitated at every turn at their expense? Im all for the disabled and those who need full time care and carers getting 100% suppport from the sytstem - but you never hear of disabled campaigns for council houses or 24/7 carers at home - they know it will never happen. Why not - they have no lobbying agencies or multumillion euro PR agencies of the socialist/communist or labour party behind them. Why are hardworking fathers and mothers who have to go to work to pay their way paying increased taxes for the upbringing of someone elses children that they have allowed their fathers to walk away from.their financial responsibilities? Why will the social welfare not deduct autimatically from the salaries or dole of fathers who abandon their families and discard their childrens financial responsibility onto other families?Because there is no political will to do so. We are an absolute joke of a nation and are being abused left right and centre by opportunists. It needs to stop.

Holy paragraph, Batman!

Wheeliebin30

What the left like Sinn Fein aaa pbp don’t get is, they want houses built for everyone who just says I need a house.

Where does it end??? You just ask for a house and there you go. 30 euro a week happy days.

There is talk of a right to housing, seriously the country will be bankrupt again in no time.

Don’t get started on the lefts thoughts on open borders, yet they moan there is no houses.

draiochtanois

This post has been deleted.

HydroTendonMan

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

What the left like Sinn Fein aaa pbp don’t get is, they want houses built for everyone who just says I need a house.

Where does it end??? You just ask for a house and there you go. 30 euro a week happy days.

There is talk of a right to housing, seriously the country will be bankrupt again in no time.

Don’t get started on the lefts thoughts on open borders, yet they moan there is no houses.

This is baseless. The fact that there are thousands on waiting lists and always has been shows this.

I am sure the 1000+ families living out of hotels in Dublin could tell you that.

Wheeliebin30

HydroTendonMan wrote: »

This is baseless. The fact that there are thousands on waiting lists and always has been shows this.

I am sure the 1000+ families living out of hotels in Dublin could tell you that.

No I’m saying that’s what some groups are advocating.

Irish Guitarist

When people say it would be a dream come true to live in some really hot country they never seem to think about the fact that they'll have to work their arse off in that country, or that if they ever develop health problems there will be no social welfare to help them and that when it comes to the stage in their life they should be thinking about retiring they'll have nothing.

Lucena

doolox wrote: »

In South America and such like you can build a house in a favela with minimal interference from councils and planning authorities. This does not happen in Ireland or any European country. Planning is the big obstacle to affordable housing. That and access to land.

I spent a little time in Mexico, and from what I observed, from speaking to people who lived there, and stuff I watched and read later, lack of planning is not something to aspire to.

I was in Mexico City, and there what often happened was people turned up and built wherever there was space available. Fine so far, you have a place to live.

But now you need water. Some places had no access to water, trucks came every so often and people queued up for it. But now you can get water, you produce waste water, where does that go? In the street, in a gulley, wherever you can put it.

Electricity? Just hook yourself up illegally to an existing power-line. That's fine, except everyone else is doing the same, leading to more power being drawn than was planned for, so brown-outs and black-outs occur.

You built in a flood-plain? Land affected by earthquakes (potential landslides for example)? In an area with no proper roads, so emergency services can't get in and out easily, assuming they can find you as your address doesn't even exist? Be grand.

A lot of the people I worked with were putting in 4-hour round trip commutes every day, possibly because the city is so spread out, due to lack of planning.

So yes, it may be easier to get stuff done in those places, but people's quality of life suffers immensly.

irishproduce

doolox wrote: »

In South America and such like you can build a house in a favela with minimal interference from councils and planning authorities. This does not happen in Ireland or any European country. Planning is the big obstacle to affordable housing. That and access to land.

Our huge problem is that the price of housing has greatly outstripped wages and what ordinary people can earn. Families with two or more children are competing with singles or childless couples sharing housing in the inner city and with adult children living into adulthood with their parents. Family people cannot compete with these at average wages. They are therefore forced to move into neighbouring counties and beyond if the want to have children and work and avoid renting at high cost.

High cost of land, high cost of construction labour and extremely high demand for housing is the cause of this. The current high taxes imposed on landlords also has contributed to a reduction in the pool of available houses for rent and the increasing reluctance of people to enter rental business.

The difficulty of getting rid of unpaying tenants is also a factor because the cost of enforcement is high and the risk of damage to property in the case of disputes is high. Many single house landlords are fleeing the business in the face of this risk.

Tenants in the future will face REITS, huge impersonal corporations with the financial clout to hire legal and technical expertise to enforce tenancy rules and collect overdue rents and damages done to properties much more effectively than small, single house, landlords could. Tenants will be treated this way so that the REITS can serve an example and terrorise other tenants into paying up and conforming to the rules.

The possibility exists that REITS will set up databases recording performance of tenants and their conformance to the rules similar to credit ratings available to finance companies and banks, nobody dares to default on their loans nowadays because of the risk of losing access to credit in the future.

A similar deterrent exists with motor insurance companies in that people with a high risk of claims are forced to pay high premiums for their insurance.

The tragic irony is that tenants in the recent past vilified and demonised the small landlord but they and the government have created a monster that will consume them all in corporate greed and irresistible power.

It will take a very long time to restore confidence in the small time landlord to re enter the letting market.

Have you many houses rented out yourself?

Hitman3000

The daily whinge thread about social welfare etc..... I see a few FG fanboys have crawled out from under their rocks as usual. Deflection in progress. Carry on guys.

utyh2ikcq9z76b

Irish Guitarist wrote: »

When people say it would be a dream come true to live in some really hot country they never seem to think about the fact that they'll have to work their arse off in that country, or that if they ever develop health problems there will be no social welfare to help them and that when it comes to the stage in their life they should be thinking about retiring they'll have nothing.

Most people add a few million to the dream

Boards should have an award for...The most creative way to start a dole thread and a minor award for...The most obscure unrelated topic a poster has shoehorned a dole thread on to.

Walter Bishop

1) Why doesn't everyone who thinks life on the dole is so great just pack their job in and sign on? Answer: because they're talking bollocks.

2) No matter what system is in place, someone's going to abuse it. As a result, isn't it best to have a system that helps the most people possible, while they need it, and accept that some people are just going to stick there? If they didn't have the dole they'd be turning to other forms of generating income, not desirable is it?

3) Almost all money that's given out as dole is more or less immediately spent on food etc. and as a result is going straight back into the economy. You don't have to worry about anyone hording their dole or socking it away in some tax haven in St Kitts and Nevis. For that sort of thing you can look at bankers and the like.

RustyNut

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

What the left like Sinn Fein aaa pbp don’t get is, they want houses built for everyone who just says I need a house.

Where does it end??? You just ask for a house and there you go. 30 euro a week happy days.

There is talk of a right to housing, seriously the country will be bankrupt again in no time.

Don’t get started on the lefts thoughts on open borders, yet they moan there is no houses.

Why do you blame "the left" for everything when " the right" have been in power for years?

Hitman3000

RustyNut wrote:

Why do you blame "the left" for everything when " the right" have been in power for years?

Deflection?

Pronto63

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

There is talk of a right to housing, seriously the country will be bankrupt again in no time.

There is a right to shelter surely not a forever home.

Pronto63

People survive on €193 or whatever for a lifetime.

I worked in SW for a while and saw the lifers. I won't say that it's easy or indeed comfortable but doable.

What annoyed me was that these layabouts were occupying a house in a Dublin suburb while colleagues were commuting an hour each way and driving past "Johnny Dolescrounger's" house to do a days work while Johnny was still in the pit!

end of the road

Pronto63 wrote: »

What annoyed me was that these layabouts were occupying a house in a Dublin suburb while colleagues were commuting an hour each way and driving past "Johnny Dolescrounger's" house to do a days work while Johnny was still in the pit!

unfortunately that is just the way it is . you will never have every worker living in the city or close to their job. commuting an hour each way while people would rather not have to do it is just a fact of life depending on your circumstances unfortunately.

James Brown

Do other countries give out tax money to private builders so they can make private profit, despite a housing crisis?

As upsetting as it is for the tory brigade, renting out state built social housing is cheaper than paying for hotels and B&B's, or buying homes off the market and pretending they are social builds, (like Murphy did) but I know it's better to cut your nose to spite your faces...

Some workers can't afford private/market rents, so we subsidise them or buy houses at market for them to rent off us. Some people are poor so we put them up in hotels...if only there was a cheaper way for our tax money to be spent... :rolleyes:

James Brown

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

No I’m saying that’s what some groups are advocating.

You just ask for a house and there you go. 30 euro a week happy days.

Name one?

Billy86

Wibbs wrote: »

Not quite T. Of the modern variety Germany and France were ahead of them. The notion of social welfare goes a long way back. The Romans introduced food for the poor and they had pensions too. The Chinese had that and free medical and homes for the old and infirm. Ditto for the Islamic world. The Church in Europe was also a provider of aid to the poor.

I'm not 100% but I believe the first 'real/formal' roll out was under Bismarck in Germany, a guy who history doesn't give enough attention in a number of areas (probably due to being overshadowed by the lad a few decades later). Which is pretty ironic considering Bismarck was quite right-wing and actually introduced these to try and kill off socialism, which he had already been putting laws in place against.

The chap was some serious pragmatist, either way.

siblers

The_Brood wrote: »

In some countries it would be undreamed of.

Other countries give even more - but then the taxpayers themselves also get a fair amount of benefits, unlike here.

In Ireland, the absolute worst deal is for full time workers on a reasonable (not high) salary.

You can be full time on minimum wage and you'll be entitled to sweet **** all.

Billy86

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Deflection?

I believe the word you are looking for is actually projection. The homeless issue has been a major talking point for the right in Ireland as to why we shouldn't allow any foreigners in.

Though by 'the left' he may mean PBP/AAA who can be very economical with the truth when it suits... not sure if they get a platform for a 'daily media onslaught' mind you but I don't watch TV news or read newspapers much these days wouldn't know either way.

Donald Trump

bluewolf wrote: »

We should just have a hunger games style set up and put unemployed people in it
How about that

It's set up and ready to go. Has been for decades. The test runs though have been too barbaric and inhuman.


You can actually visit the site, although, be warned that some of the test participants are still roaming around freely, devouring unsuspecting visitors.

The government code-name for the area is "Leitrim"

Taytoland

The left complain about a housing problem and yet want open borders and anyone can come in, just fly right in, take a seat lads, everything is free and you will get free housing. Idiots.