Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice

Penn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119812020#Comment_119812020

As with a lot of things in Soulsborne games, it's not very well explained. Though all the others follow very similar patterns in terms of souls/runes/blood echoes etc, used for both levelling up attributes and buying items.

Sekiro uses a different system, with currency to buy items and XP to purchase new skills from skills trees, both of which you lose half of each time you die.

If you don't have a skill point showing at the side of the XP bar, then yeah I'd say the problem is maybe you need to have one before the Sculptor shows you how to level up.

MadYaker

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119812304#Comment_119812304

Yeah I figured it out now. I went back to that NPC and he gave me the esoteric text so now I can use skill points. No idea why he didn't give me it earlier when id spoken to him a bunch of times but no matter. I've unlocked the Mikiri Counter which looks pretty cool, but it's difficult to tell whether the enemy is about to use a thrusting attack or a spinning attack. I think I'm going to keep putting points into that skill tree, I need 2 more to get Suppress Presence which also looks useful since this game is very stealth orientated.

Penn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119812326#Comment_119812326

Mikiri counter is definitely one of the most important skills.

There are small tells about what type of attack the enemy is about to use when the red symbol appears over their head. I'll spoiler below if you'd prefer to try gauge it for yourself instead.

Spoiler Warning

If they pull their weapon back towards them, they're going to thrust forward, so you need to mikiri counter.

If the pull their weapon to the side, they're going to do a sweeping attack, so you need to jump.

If they arch themselves back, they're going to lunge forward and grab you, so you need to dodge.

Make sure to find the guy to train with.

MadYaker

Yeah I found him, useful for practicing new combat techniques but when fighting real enemies I find their moves less obvious and harder to predict / respond to. This game is sucking me in though, the combat is deep, a lot to learn.

theteal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119812459#Comment_119812459

When the combat clicks with you, the game takes on a new life. Don't be afraid to spam L1/LB if you don't know what's coming and yeah, as above, when you see the red symbol it's rock, paper, scissors (mikiri, jump, dodge/run), it's just about reading the tells. . . .usually takes a few rounds of getting your ass handed to you

Retr0gamer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119812459#Comment_119812459

Game took a long time to click with me. Basically you are playing the game totally wrong and fumbling through it. It's not until you hit the first real boss on the top of the pagoda and the game takes the kiddie gloves off that you either learn what the game expects of you or keep trying until you do. After that boss fight I had the game figured out and it took on a whole new level of awesome. So don't be disheartened by the beat downs, we all went through it.

MadYaker

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119813757#Comment_119813757

I'm finding it ok so far but I haven't fought any main bosses. DS3 was my first Fromsoft game and I'm definitely having a way easier time with this than I had when I started that.

Markus Antonius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119811657#Comment_119811657

I shared the same sentiment as this when playing Sekiro and to be honest, I still do. It often felt more like guitar hero without the visual button prompts - you really have to get into the rythm of the battle.

As others have said, the day you realise it's not a Souls game is when you really start to appreciate it. I completely understand those who feel Sekiro is the best of all FromSoft games though, even if I don't feel this way myself.

theteal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119816489#Comment_119816489

How you getting on @MadYaker? Developed a distaste for butterflies yet?

MadYaker

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119830216#Comment_119830216

Exploring Hirata Estates. I've killed a few more mini bosses here and made it as far as Juzou the Drunkard who I've fought twice and almost killed on the second attempt. He seems like the toughest "boss" so far but I'm guessing he isn't the main boss of this area because he's too fat and drunk and it doesn't seem like a particularly hard fight, most of his moves are easy to avoid or deflect and you can eliminate most of the enemies around him without aggroing him. I'm enjoying it though, I'm avoiding walkthroughs unless I get completely stuck and that hasn't happened yet. Not sure what your reference to butterflies means but I'm sure I'll find out. I'll finish the drunk guy off this weekend and make more progress.

MadYaker

I fought that Juzou guy three more times and I can't be bothered anymore. Fighting him is fun, it feels like a dance. Getting past all the soldiers / archers that respawn between you and the boss every time you die just ruins it and makes it not worth the effort. This gameplay mechanic is the reason it took me 2+ years to finish Dark Souls 3, I persevered with it that time but I'm not doing it again. I really don't understand what the devs think this adds to the experience offered by these games. I might come back to this in a few weeks. This wasn't really a thing in Elden Ring and it's all the better for it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119835576#Comment_119835576

I don't understand. Why do you keep fighting him? He's not the final boss of the Hirata estate.

As for the attempts, you will or maybe have already unlocked a menu where you can go fight main bosses again any time you like. A sort of arena mode. And I think there are mods on PC that let you do similar with mini bosses. As for the difficulty before some fights, I agree it's a pity they can take time.

theteal

Is that the bit where's there's an old guy standing beside the lake? Bring the fight over there and he helps you.

I started a game last night (first time in English, voices are quit funny) and I'm just there. I take from @adsbygoogle comment above that he can be skipped? Which suggests we can just shlink inside the building...this is news to me, I'll check later.

TitianGerm

You can move up the left hand side of that arena and stealth kill most of the smaller enemies. Then go back to the water and ask the old guy for help.

Have you tried using your firecrackers to stun Jinzu?

Penn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119835737#Comment_119835737

You do have to fight him to get to the final boss of Hirata Estate.

Retr0gamer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119835576#Comment_119835576

As I said, you are playing it wrong. Not being a dick, I totally half arsed past him by the skin of my teeth after multiple attempts. Two bite of advice.

Hirata estate is optional. Come back later.

Also there is a npc in the water before that area that can be engaged to help with the fight. Clear out the small fry and go talk to him.

It's going to take a while for the game to click.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119835856#Comment_119835856

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119835867#Comment_119835867

My mistake. I misread it that he beat him three times because of how he said the fight was fun.

theteal

Also @MadYaker for the actual bosses, there's no big lead up, the save point/shrine is more or less right in front of them. I have heard this was an issue in the older souls games but I just can't take to them so wouldn't know for sure.

Penn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119836027#Comment_119836027

You do have to get through a few pretty tough enemies between the shrine and Juzou though, not to mention Juzou is then surrounded by a bunch of enemies too.

I think I got to the point where I'd sprint past the enemies until I got to the lake, then tried to hide and de-aggro them so they'd leave. Then stealth kill as many of the small enemies with Juzou as I could, or kill a few then hide and de-aggro again.

But yeah, when you're just trying to kill Juzou, it can be a bit laborious doing it multiple times.

I'd agree with Retro that maybe leave Hirata and go back to the main path for a bit. Hirata is optional (though well worth doing), but maybe you went there too early. Have you beaten the first main boss in Ashina yet, Gyoubu?

..

MadYaker

I think I'm just a bit burnt out on the Fromsoft experience after playing Elden Ring straight through, which I never do with games, and finishing Dark Souls 3 afterwards. This game feels quite similar only it's harder because you have none of crutches available in the other games like crazy magic or summoning help. It also drives me nuts how it's impossible to make progress in these games without looking at walkthroughs, ruins the sense of exploration. I will go back to it eventually though.

theteal

@Penn I've just done it, you only need to kill the first goon around the corner from the shrine, then pop up onto the roof and hunker-walk all the way up to the end (the little alert arrow did pop up but it never went red), hop down at the end and stroll into the lake. I made the mistake of talking to the old guy straight away and he runs into battle with the Drunk and his cronies - fire arrow guys are a pain and nearly killed me. @MadYaker you should stick to the left and get rid of the handful of guys in the building before engaging the fat pr!ck. When you do start the fight, peg it over to the lake and talk to the guy, he helps a lot, especially if it's just the Drunkard left.

nix

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119838526#Comment_119838526

The gameplay is nothing like the other games, which is why its seeming overwhelmingly hard all over again, you just need to "learn" how to play this game now. I havent played elden ring yet myself, but it looks mostly similar to the souls games, so completing elden ring, you can carry over what you learned in that to all other souls games and they wont seem anywhere as difficult, as you know how to play them now..

Going into sekiro with what you learned in souls/elden wont help at all, you need to play completely different, instead of doging and windmilling in, you need to go completely on the defensive, you need to focus on just deflecting/countering your enemies attacks and breaking their guard for you to then massivley punish them.. You can try dodge and flip around and cheese the bosses as best you can, which is probably what you're trying to do right now to mush frustration, but you're eventually going to hit a boss in which that wont work on..

I was in the same boat as you, as im sure we all were playing Sekiro for the first time, i cheesed my way through the first 4-5 bosses i think before i got to a boss where i just had to learn how to play proper. And it was then after that fight that the game just clicked and became a whole lot more fun to tackle. It was much easier to proceed but still some real big but rewarding challenges

You will come across some bosses that you can approach like you would a Dark souls boss, but humanoids with steel? Get ready to make those blades sing :D

MadYaker

Gyoubo and Junou are both beaten now but I haven't progressed much further. I enjoyed fighting Gyoubo but the other fight was just annoying. Gyoubo could have dished out a bit more damage imo, I could take 4 or 5 hits from but only 1 or 2 from Junou the Drunkard. I watched walkthroughs of the early parts of Ashina Outskirts and Hirata Estates and I realised here's few things missed so I'm going back before moving forwards.

MadYaker

Also this game isn’t that different to Elden Ring or DS3. I’m having a way easier time of Sekiro than I would have if I hadn’t played through those. Deflecting and parrying feel the same. A lot of the principles are the same even if some aspects of the combat and other game mechanics differ slightly. You can tell that it runs on the same engine and was made by the same people.

Retr0gamer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119880697#Comment_119880697

Dude, might want to hold off on saying that until Genichiro makes a fool of you. That's when 'real Sekiro starts here'.

johnny_ultimate

A lot of the game is very comfortably in the Fromsoft mould - from the lack of handholding to the level design to the trademark gameplay ideas like fog gates and 'bonfires' (idols). It is far from a full departure from the series standards, but nonetheless its more intense combat focus, toned-down RPG mechanics, zippier traversal, and lack of multiplayer do give it a very different flow and vibe. Like Bloodborne, it's more a variation on the established basics than a totally new thing.

I do personally reckon playing all these games in quick succession would lead to pretty rapid burnout on the formula. They're intense, time/attention-consuming games - if you're not feeling it I'd definitely recommend going away for a few months and playing something totally different. The game will still be there... but you might need to get that parry timing down again :P

petes

When I hadn't even played a Fromsoft game I started with Bloodborne, found it too hard so said fork that, went back to it and it's a fantastic game.

Sekiro was a bit the same although I did persevere with it and once as someone has said it clicks it's great although I still died loads 😀

Once you get to Genichiro, get your ass handed to you and then beat him it's so different after that, for me anyway. I also though it was enough removed from the souls games to enjoy it without comparisons

theteal

Am I the only one who fights LB first - even before Gyobu? As a new player, she's definitely harder than him (he's easiest in the game in truth) but very much forces you to get with the deflecting mechanic.