Ireland v Waltzing Matilda, test 1 build up thread.

irishbucsfan

Buer wrote: »

I don't think it's harsh. The pack is seriously weakened. 1-10 is where we held the advantage in this series and we've given that up with this selection. John Ryan and Rob Herring aren't even second choice players and this is a huge jump for Carbery to a level he has never played in before.

I don't particularly have a problem with it. I'm very interested to see how it goes.

To be fair, John Ryan and Rob Herring are both second choice players.

For their provinces.

kuang1

Buer wrote: »

this is a huge jump for Carbery to a level he has never played in before.

Eh...Chicago anyone?

ionadnapokot

Confident of Ireland’s chances. Nice bench options! although not sure if that Sexton fella has what it takes to finish out a pressure game.

Australia mid of Beale and Kerevi can be exploited. Looking forward to see how Carbery can exploit the gaps.

Interested Observer

kuang1 wrote: »

Eh...Chicago anyone?

He played a big chunk of the England game this season too but it's the biggest game he's started clearly enough I think.

Buer

kuang1 wrote: »

Eh...Chicago anyone?

Coming off the bench for the final quarter when your team has a solid lead is a big difference to being asked to steer the ship from the outset. There's a far higher level of expectation and pressure on him here.

Beechwoodspark

JS needs to see If Joey has the game management skills to control and direct a big test match from the off.

Good a time as any to find out.

kuang1

Buer wrote: »

Coming off the bench for the final quarter when your team has a solid lead is a big difference to being asked to steer the ship from the outset. There's a far higher level of expectation and pressure on him here.

I get your point but I disagree.
There is no such thing as a "solid lead" against the all blacks as we're all painfully aware of.
I've always been of the opinion that it's easier to start a high pressure game then come on off the bench where you're expected to instantly match the tempo of it.

I should have also highlighted his performance against England last year in the Aviva.

Carbery'll be just fine.

Buer

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

JS needs to see If Joey has the game management skills to control and direct a big test match from the off.

Good a time as any to find out.

Pretty much. Looks like this tour is almost certainly going to be about preparing for the RWC which is fair enough.

It will be very interesting to see how Carbery in particular gets on; I don't see Ryan or Herring being in our 23 come the RWC at this point but Carbery needs to start getting game time and becoming comfortable as there is a very real chance he'll be starting games in the RWC.

Former Former

Scythica wrote: »

Who is ahead of Herring if he isn't even 2nd choice?

The man is a good player, just doesn't make the headlines as much.

Best, Cronin, Scannell.

Herring wasn't involved in the wider Six Nations squad, James Tracy was preferred.

He's been eligible since the day he landed here and Joe hasn't really been bothered. He's a good player but the eyebrows are justifiably raised at his selection.

Interested Observer

kuang1 wrote: »

I get your point but I disagree.
There is no such thing as a "solid lead" against the all blacks as we're all painfully aware of.
I've always been of the opinion that it's easier to start a high pressure game then come on off the bench where you're expected to instantly match the tempo of it.

I should have also highlighted his performance against England last year in the Aviva.

Carbery'll be just fine.

They scored immediately after he came on anyway so the lead was 4 points from then until Henshaw scored.

Clareman

Clear Munster bias starting RoG Jr.

On a serious note, I think it's a great move, most of the Leinster players have played at least 2 games more than the others in the past month so give some of them a slight rest while giving others the chance to start. No point in finding out JC is allergic to the number 10 this next year

Interested Observer

Clareman wrote: »

Clear Munster bias starting RoG Jr.

On a serious note, I think it's a great move, most of the Leinster players have played at least 2 games more than the others in the past month so give some of them a slight rest while giving others the chance to start. No point in finding out JC is allergic to the number 10 this next year

Yeah. Would people prefer we ended up in a Madigan v Argentina situation? Jackson is out of the picture and there's a situation that needs to be remedied as a result. This is a good selection.

I guess the front row is a bit iffy but the Leinster first choice are all on the bench and will come on early in the second half I'm guessing.

wittycynic

Selection at front row is bizarre and could cost us the game. John Ryan is not an international level scrummager and presumably is only included due to his mobility around the park. Thought Porter was superior to him during the Six Nations.

But if mobility is the concern it's hard to see why Herring was picked over Cronin, who is presumably the most mobile hooker we have. Not sure what Herring has done to warrant leapfrogging Cronin in the pecking order, unless Joe views Cronin solely as a late game option yo run hard at tired defences.

Paul Smeenus

Former Former wrote: »

Scythica wrote: »

Who is ahead of Herring if he isn't even 2nd choice?

The man is a good player, just doesn't make the headlines as much.

Best, Cronin, Scannell.

Herring wasn't involved in the wider Six Nations squad, James Tracy was preferred.

He's been eligible since the day he landed here and Joe hasn't really been bothered. He's a good player but the eyebrows are justifiably raised at his selection.

I'd say Scannel has played himself into fourth choice. I think Herring's better than Tracy, but either way, he's had a less arduous season than Cronin, who I'd put at second choice.

Shefwedfan

Not sure why people are getting so hung up on the selection. It is a 3 game tour. I would guess everyone will get a run. It looks like for this game the experience will be in the backs and hopefully O’Mahony, Standar and McGrath will have the experience to pull the forward along with them

Carberry needed a run with Murray at 9 and a experienced 12/13 outside him to see if he is actually the back up 10 or not.

If Carberry f**ks this up I would expect Byrne will jump him into the backup 10 spot, as long as he can have a good game on tour

The game Sexton plays I would guess he wont have Murray with him, JGP came on leaps and bounds this season after getting a game with Sexton at 10.....

Sangre

wittycynic wrote: »

Selection at front row is bizarre and could cost us the game. John Ryan is not an international level scrummager and presumably is only included due to his mobility around the park. Thought Porter was superior to him during the Six Nations.

But if mobility is the concern it's hard to see why Herring was picked over Cronin, who is presumably the most mobile hooker we have. Not sure what Herring has done to warrant leapfrogging Cronin in the pecking order, unless Joe views Cronin solely as a late game option yo run hard at tired defences.

In relation to Cronin, I think its more that Joe probably knows Cronin very well. He won't learn too much by starting him. He wants to know if Herring could do this as well.

We need three legitimate options for every position in front row.

Shefwedfan

Sangre wrote: »

In relation to Cronin, I think its more that Joe probably knows Cronin very well. He won't learn too much by starting him. He wants to know if Herring could do this as well.

We need three legitimate options for every position in front row.

Exactly, Joe has managed Cronin since 2010/11???

He needs to fill out the other squad positions so if we do lose 4-5 players he knows who he can thrust and who he can't.....

Sangre

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Exactly, Joe has managed Cronin since 2010/11???

He needs to fill out the other squad positions so if we do lose 4-5 players he knows who he can thrust and who he can't.....

Joe thrusts players to 'fill' the squad? No wonder he has his favourites.

Shefwedfan

Sangre wrote: »

Joe thrusts players to 'fill' the squad? No wonder he has his favourites.

No idea what you mean?

He needs a squad for the WC....last time after we lost 3-4 critical players I think he will even admit he wasn't sure about who was the best understudy

This time is building a squad. So we lose a start player and someone slots in, his replacement goes and someone else slots in....like in 6 nations at centre...

irishbucsfan

heh

Mucky_Tackies

ionadnapokot wrote: »

Australia mid of Beale and Kerevi can be exploited. Looking forward to see how Carbery can exploit the gaps.

Big time. Think that centre partnering and the 2nd row pairing we have a massive advantage. Lot of metres to be gained through these boys. Our carriers will have to be spot on tho with Hooper and Pocock absolute menaces at the breakdown.

Noopti

Would be confident of the 1st XV winning the opening test, but the team announced definitely makes things a bit interesting!

I think the Aussies will come out looking to do three main things
1. Disrupt our usual ruck dominance
2. Target Carbery
3. Throw the ball around, take risks and keep a very high tempo. Lots of quick lineouts, quick taps etc.

On point 1, I think they have a really good chance of doing this. We will miss Leavy and Best. I think this would have been a good game to start Beirne, due to his breakdown form.

On point 2, it is a given these days for any flyhalf. So really just comes down to how Carbery can handle it.

On point 3, how we deal with this will come down to our structure, leadership and composure. And I would be a bit concerned without the likes of Sexton here. When the **** hits the fan, can this team cope with the pressure and be composed to ride it out? A lot rides on Murray here, and him controlling things. I am not 100% sure we can do it enough to win, but hopefully I am wrong. I am also not totally convinced on POMs ability to make good decisions under pressure.

I can see this being an Aussie win, but either way I am happy Schmidt has picked Carbery at 10. It strikes me as a message for him from Schmidt, after he chose to make the move to Munster, and also a great opportunity for him to really gain some experience running a game at 10 against a top quality side.

I also think if Australia win, it is perfectly setup for an absolute cracker of a series. As the 2nd test would see Ireland come out all guns blazing and Australia with another week together.

Fingers crossed the lads can do it, but I see it being an Aussie win by about 7-10 points.

errlloyd

Paddy Power have us favorites for this game still, I'd be backing Australia.

Mucky_Tackies

wittycynic wrote: »

John Ryan is not an international level scrummager and presumably is only included due to his mobility around the park.

Have you the right guy? Ryan is an excellent scrummager but he doesnt add much around the park.

Podge_irl

errlloyd wrote: »

Paddy Power have us favorites for this game still, I'd be backing Australia.

Hard to know really. That bench is something else and if they come on early they will have a massive impact.

It really depends on how much Schmidt is willing to roll with the starting team if it doesn't look like it is working. Let them try to figure it out or hop on Sexton, Furlong and Cronin (and Larmour for the hell of it) and get back on top.

accensi0n

Shefwedfan wrote: »

No idea what you mean?

He needs a squad for the WC....last time after we lost 3-4 critical players I think he will even admit he wasn't sure about who was the best understudy

This time is building a squad. So we lose a start player and someone slots in, his replacement goes and someone else slots in....like in 6 nations at centre...

Oh he'll slot them right in the centre alright, good and proper.

molloyjh

errlloyd wrote: »

Paddy Power have us favorites for this game still, I'd be backing Australia.

Why? There's a lot of inexperience in that Aussie side and they'll only have 6 days together. Our second row and back row are strong. Our front row is decent. So that's a good pack overall. We've one of the best 9s in the game and a couple of very good centres. Our back 3 is our best back 3 then too. The only areas of possibly concern are front row and 10. Our bench is as good a bench as you'll see in almost any Test game.

It's not our strongest side, but it's still a good side nonetheless.

The game we lost to France in Novés first test is possible an example of what Ireland might be looking to do in the final 30.

Roux is an incredibly powerful scrummager and with Healy, Roux and Furlong off the bench we could well be looking to use the set piece in the last 30 to convert points and create scoring opportunities within the Australian 22.

I'd say we might see something similar to the try we scored against the All Blacks in Chicago with Henshaw or Aki coming off a quick ball from a dominant scrum to barge over the line.

You can see in the final minute of the highlights what France were doing to us, it was very premeditated on Novés's part:

Much like Australia at the weekend, our starting props were good but reserves weren't as strong in the set piece. It's an obvious area for us to target Australia when their first choice front row has been subbed. Sexton will be kicking the ball down the sidelines at that stage most likely also.

ionadnapokot

Mucky_Tackies wrote: »

Big time. Think that centre partnering and the 2nd row pairing we have a massive advantage. Lot of metres to be gained through these boys. Our carriers will have to be spot on tho with Hooper and Pocock absolute menaces at the breakdown.

Bundi and Henshaw to carve them up a few times with good flat ball from Carbery.
Like you say the Hooper and Pocock menace is the concern. But I expect they might be blasted out of it.
Nathan Grey has come on for a good bit of stick for his system - Beale sometimes drops out of the line etc. But they don’t really have a 12/13 or any really solid defenders in that channel.

molloyjh

ionadnapokot wrote: »

Bundi and Henshaw to carve them up a few times with good flat ball from Carbery.
Like you say the Hooper and Pocock menace is the concern. But I expect they might be blasted out of it.
Nathan Grey has come on for a good bit of stick for his system - Beale sometimes drops out of the line etc. But they don’t really have a 12/13 or any really solid defenders in that channel.

Yeah, we don't need a real openside to secure our own ball really. The pack we've named should be able to do that. We might struggle to turn ball over a little, but we'll just need to trust our defence to manage their periods of possession. I'm okay with that tbh.