Waterford GAA thread - mod warning post #1 and #51

Mastermcgrath

Giveitfong wrote: »

It appears I was wrong about George Leahy being from Danesfort, but I am not wrong about what the woman from Danesfort said about Leahy. And whatever about Leahy’s achievements as a coach elsewhere, I still regard him as probably the worst manager Waterford ever had.
Two of the best talents from the Waterford Under 21 team that won the All-Ireland in 1992, Johnny Brenner and Growler Daly, dropped out during Leahy’s time in charge of Waterford. Brenner was a massive loss. He made a huge impact when he came into the Waterford senior team in 1991. I remember him being particularly brilliant in his first game for Waterford, in the league against Kilkenny in Walsh Park, and later in the year against Galway in Ballinasloe. That year Waterford were unlucky to lose by a flukey goal to Cork in the Munster championship.

In 1992, the first year of George Leahy’s period in charge of Waterford, Brenner dropped off the panel, mainly to focus on his university studies. He did make himself available for the Munster semi-final against Limerick but was not used in a game which Waterford again lost by a goal. He remained on the panel for the 1992-93 league, but dropped out at the end of it. That was the year Waterford lost in the first round of the championship to Kerry in Walsh Park.

Brenner, a very intelligent and calculating person, made no secret of his view of Leahy in an interview with Kieran Shannon in the Irish Independent in April 2000. When Leahy came in, he was “old school in approach. There was no warm-up before games; it was all pride and passion.'' Brenner decided to put his studies ahead of his hurling career. He said “the set-up in Waterford was ridiculous. There was never a feeling that we were ever going to do anything.”

As Shannon put it: “A student of science, Brenner knew there was little scientific about Waterford’s approach.” Quoting Brenner: “I wasn't going to play inter-county hurling for a joke of a team, fail my exams and end up with nothing.''

Brenner made a couple of comeback attempts after Leahy departed the scene, but was never able to get back to the level he was at in 1991 and 1992. Waterford had a good senior team in those years, and with the 1992 under 21 stars coming on board, they should have been able to make the breakthrough five years before they eventually did. Instead, under Leahy, they went into reverse. Who knows what we might have achieved under a different manager, and with Brenner and Growler both in the team.

Growler had every chance. Brenner was back as a regular starter in 99, 2000 but was more of a workhorse when it came down to it. Was never in the calibre of other forwards like Flynn and McGrath who led the line on those teams. The early 90s was what it was. Stone-age era in Waterford hurling despite the good underage teams. I wouldn't blame Leahy for lack of success in mid ninties, more the board for the lack of structure and foresight. Depressing that some of those board members are still prominent today.

emergingstar

What are the chances of any of these (very good) proposals been taken on board

would a club have to bring such a motion to county convention to try get it passed?

cul beag

Giveitfong wrote: »

It appears I was wrong about George Leahy being from Danesfort, but I am not wrong about what the woman from Danesfort said about Leahy. And whatever about Leahy’s achievements as a coach elsewhere, I still regard him as probably the worst manager Waterford ever had.
Two of the best talents from the Waterford Under 21 team that won the All-Ireland in 1992, Johnny Brenner and Growler Daly, dropped out during Leahy’s time in charge of Waterford. Brenner was a massive loss. He made a huge impact when he came into the Waterford senior team in 1991. I remember him being particularly brilliant in his first game for Waterford, in the league against Kilkenny in Walsh Park, and later in the year against Galway in Ballinasloe. That year Waterford were unlucky to lose by a flukey goal to Cork in the Munster championship.

In 1992, the first year of George Leahy’s period in charge of Waterford, Brenner dropped off the panel, mainly to focus on his university studies. He did make himself available for the Munster semi-final against Limerick but was not used in a game which Waterford again lost by a goal. He remained on the panel for the 1992-93 league, but dropped out at the end of it. That was the year Waterford lost in the first round of the championship to Kerry in Walsh Park.

Brenner, a very intelligent and calculating person, made no secret of his view of Leahy in an interview with Kieran Shannon in the Irish Independent in April 2000. When Leahy came in, he was “old school in approach. There was no warm-up before games; it was all pride and passion.'' Brenner decided to put his studies ahead of his hurling career. He said “the set-up in Waterford was ridiculous. There was never a feeling that we were ever going to do anything.”

As Shannon put it: “A student of science, Brenner knew there was little scientific about Waterford’s approach.” Quoting Brenner: “I wasn't going to play inter-county hurling for a joke of a team, fail my exams and end up with nothing.''

Brenner made a couple of comeback attempts after Leahy departed the scene, but was never able to get back to the level he was at in 1991 and 1992. Waterford had a good senior team in those years, and with the 1992 under 21 stars coming on board, they should have been able to make the breakthrough five years before they eventually did. Instead, under Leahy, they went into reverse. Who knows what we might have achieved under a different manager, and with Brenner and Growler both in the team.

You’re way off the mark about Daly. Lacked pace big time at inter county level and self discipline(putting it mildly) If you remember under Gerald McCarthy he thought it was alright to go to a race meeting while on a training weekend in Clonea 🙄. In fact a lot of the more committed players at the time found him to be a negative influence around the place.

Fred C Dobbs

Jjjjjjjjbarry wrote: »

Can anyone name an outside manager before Gerald McCarthy?
I'm not as old as the rest of ye and just wondering!

Look what you’ve started ! Re-opening of old wounds, going back about 30 years.

willbeuptuesday

Yes, a club would have to bring this proposal tot he county convention and the clubs would have to ratify it. Another way would be to get it to the review committee and if they proposed it, it might carry more weight with the clubs.

Gardner

cul beag wrote: »

You’re way off the mark about Daly. Lacked pace big time at inter county level and self discipline(putting it mildly) If you remember under Gerald McCarthy he thought it was alright to go to a race meeting while on a training weekend in Clonea ��. In fact a lot of the more committed players at the time found him to be a negative influence around the place.

he was in good company that day

JesusRef

Does anyone have the names of the ballygunnar intermediate team that played portlaw?

cul beag

Gardner wrote: »

he was in good company that day

Christ I forgot that! Well met the pair of them alright 😂

thesultan

JesusRef wrote: »

Does anyone have the names of the ballygunnar intermediate team that played portlaw?

Could a club have two teams up senior?

windy shepard henderson

thesultan wrote: »

Could a club have two teams up senior?

Don't think so, due to the regrading laws and all that

DiscoStew

thesultan wrote: »

Could a club have two teams up senior?

If they win the intermediate Ballygunner have the option to have 2 senior teams yes. They can’t represent Waterford in Munster however as they are not a first string team, I believe.

JesusRef

DiscoStew wrote: »

If they win the intermediate Ballygunner have the option to have 2 senior teams yes. They can’t represent Waterford in Munster however as they are not a first string team, I believe.

If a team wins the intermediate championship they deserve to be senior, regardless if they are a 2nd team or not.

Ballygunnar must have at least another 20 players who are good enough to play senior....

The surprising thing is that some of these lads havent thrown their lot in with other clubs to realise their potential and play senior or first team hurling elsewhere

Lingoweet913

What matches were walkovers given in last week and this week?

emergingstar

Ballygunner prob gonna win Senior and intermediate

They just made it back to minor final as defending champions

This is not good for Waterford hurling

cul beag

emergingstar wrote: »

Ballygunner prob gonna win Senior and intermediate

They just made it back to minor final as defending champions

This is not good for Waterford hurling

Also won the u13 final today and the u14 some weeks ago. A club heading for nearly a full clean sweep this year of all titles. It’ll take some effort to stem the flow they’re on at the moment.

Relhcstirt

It is good for Waterford hurling. We just need more clubs like it. They seem to be raising the bar the whole time.

Lingoweet913

Relhcstirt wrote: »

It is good for Waterford hurling. We just need more clubs like it. They seem to be raising the bar the whole time.

Only good if other teams get to the bar which doesn’t seem to be happening.

Spatters

Relhcstirt wrote: »

It is good for Waterford hurling. We just need more clubs like it. They seem to be raising the bar the whole time.

Its good and it’s not good! Good from the point of view that they are raising the standards, not good from the point of view of the Waterford Senior setup in so far as standard of Sr Club hurling- quality is a problem. With all Ballygunner dominance, they are not exactly sending top class Intercounty hurlers to the County team like they were one time with Frampton, Hartley and of course Paul Flynn and yet they are beating SENIOR clubs in Waterford by 10pts+. Just tells the story of where the standard of hurling in Waterford is. Some of the Senior clubs are intermediate at best!

Ballygunner will beat DLS by 6/7 pts pulling up.
They’ll win the minor also- and no one will lay a glove on them!
They are only getting better again with all these young lads coming on stream.

Again, with all the success we’re not getting the top Quality players from this great club at minor, u20(no one on the team this yr) and Senior. As I said, it tells its own story

Road-Hog

Spatters wrote: »

Its good and it’s not good! Good from the point of view that they are raising the standards, not good from the point of view of the Waterford Senior setup in so far as standard of Sr Club hurling- quality is a problem. With all Ballygunner dominance, they are not exactly sending top class Intercounty hurlers to the County team like they were one time with Frampton, Hartley and of course Paul Flynn and yet they are beating SENIOR clubs in Waterford by 10pts+. Just tells the story of where the standard of hurling in Waterford is. Some of the Senior clubs are intermediate at best!

Ballygunner will beat DLS by 6/7 pts pulling up.
They’ll win the minor also- and no one will lay a glove on them!
They are only getting better again with all these young lads coming on stream.

Again, with all the success we’re not getting the top Quality players from this great club at minor, u20(no one on the team this yr) and Senior. As I said, it tells its own story

There was something very strange about the u20 squad this year......it looked like there was some sort of boycott of the teM by eastern clubs....?

In the Ballygunner area there is room for at least another club but no one brave enough to do it....Ballinakill gaels maybe or could we have a Na Piarsaigh or even a Williamstown emmets......take u16 or minor......Ballygunner could probably field 3 teams what happens the surplus players.....they more than likely give up....?

conor05

emergingstar wrote: »

Ballygunner prob gonna win Senior and intermediate

They just made it back to minor final as defending champions

This is not good for Waterford hurling

And while Ballygunnar are a super club they were made look very ordinary by Ballyhale shamrocks last year.

I think Munster senior club hurling is weak compared to the Leinster clubs and Galway clubs with the exception of the Limerick senior clubs.

In the last 30 years the Leinster clubs have won 14 All Ireland’s between Kilkenny, Dublin, Offaly and Wexford, 12 times by the Galway clubs, 4 x Munster clubs and 1 x Antrim

Gavlor

conor05 wrote: »

And while Ballygunnar are a super club they were made look very ordinary by Ballyhale shamrocks last year.

I think Munster senior club hurling is weak compared to the Leinster clubs and Galway clubs with the exception of the Limerick senior clubs.

In the last 30 years the Leinster clubs have won 14 All Ireland’s between Kilkenny, Dublin, Offaly and Wexford, 12 times by the Galway clubs, 4 x Munster clubs and 1 x Antrim

And that affects the Waterford u12 to senior championships how?

cul beag

Spatters wrote: »

Its good and it’s not good! Good from the point of view that they are raising the standards, not good from the point of view of the Waterford Senior setup in so far as standard of Sr Club hurling- quality is a problem. With all Ballygunner dominance, they are not exactly sending top class Intercounty hurlers to the County team like they were one time with Frampton, Hartley and of course Paul Flynn and yet they are beating SENIOR clubs in Waterford by 10pts+. Just tells the story of where the standard of hurling in Waterford is. Some of the Senior clubs are intermediate at best!

Ballygunner will beat DLS by 6/7 pts pulling up.
They’ll win the minor also- and no one will lay a glove on them!
They are only getting better again with all these young lads coming on stream.

Again, with all the success we’re not getting the top Quality players from this great club at minor, u20(no one on the team this yr) and Senior. As I said, it tells its own story

The problem for the rest of the chasing clubs is probably numbers. Mt. Sion, Roanmore and DLS are all pulling from the same area while Erin’s Own are limited also. Head out the west and you have Dungarvan underage in tatters since Pat Curran stepped away and they’re now competing in Div 3 championships. Lismore/St. Carthage’s are relatively competitive but they cannot produce it yearly due to lack of numbers. Which leaves Abbeyside being the most likely to produce a sustained effort in the future because of the high volume of kids coming through with several former county players getting involved there as they have moved into the area.
By the way it seems MT Sion are definitely getting their house in order as they’re contesting a lot of semi finals and finals at underage which is good to see also.
All you can hope for is to be competitive at underage and try to bring those through to the senior team but in Ballygunner’s case,because of the high volume of kids and success now breeding more success there, i can’t see them being toppled for a long time to come.
Take Tallow Ballyduff Upper Lismore(all senior) Cappoquin Ballysaggart Shamrocks(all intermediate) Tourin Mellerary(all junior) there are 9 clubs all within 20 mins of each other or less, all trying to compete at different levels and the player pool getting smaller and smaller for all of them. Personally I believe for any of these to be considered as a threat in years to come I believe they will have to be amalgamations or they won’t survive. The same for all country clubs in the county will eventually happen as a high percentage of the young people are moving away rather than moving back to settle down.

tommylad1212

Lingoweet913 wrote: »

What matches were walkovers given in last week and this week?

Wouldn't say any it's all down to semi finals and finals

Deskjockey

conor05 wrote: »

And while Ballygunnar are a super club they were made look very ordinary by Ballyhale shamrocks last year.

I think Munster senior club hurling is weak compared to the Leinster clubs and Galway clubs with the exception of the Limerick senior clubs.

In the last 30 years the Leinster clubs have won 14 All Ireland’s between Kilkenny, Dublin, Offaly and Wexford, 12 times by the Galway clubs, 4 x Munster clubs and 1 x Antrim

So the Limerick senior clubs are strong but then Ballygunner beat the Limerick Champions na Piarsaigh last year in the Munster Club Championship??
So did na Piarsaigh have a bad day against them, or did Ballygunner just have a bad day vs Ballyhale Shamrocks??

windy shepard henderson

Deskjockey wrote: »

So the Limerick senior clubs are strong but then Ballygunner beat the Limerick Champions na Piarsaigh last year in the Munster Club Championship??
So did na Piarsaigh have a bad day against them, or did Ballygunner just have a bad day vs Ballyhale Shamrocks??

you cant base the standard of a county by how far the winners go in a club championship

the 2010 all ireland football final was played out by a team from antrim and a team from clare , both division 4 football counties at the time

thurles sarsfields lack of munster club championships has hardly affected tipperary hurling despite there club dominance over the years either

Mastermcgrath

Road-Hog wrote: »

There was something very strange about the u20 squad this year......it looked like there was some sort of boycott of the teM by eastern clubs....?

In the Ballygunner area there is room for at least another club but no one brave enough to do it....Ballinakill gaels maybe or could we have a Na Piarsaigh or even a Williamstown emmets......take u16 or minor......Ballygunner could probably field 3 teams what happens the surplus players.....they more than likely give up....?

it was just an extremely weak group in general, they were hammered by an average of 25 points in their 3 games at minor 2 years ago so the management decided not to pick many of that group and go for the next 2 age groups down who were more competitive, with a view to having a stronger team next year and the following, instead of putting the same group of lads out to the sword again. Truth is some of the lads from the city clubs didn’t bother making themselves available as they knew they were going to be hammered either way . It was almost used as a development squad and I think a good decision as well have a stronger team for it next year

Mastermcgrath

windy shepard henderson wrote: »

you cant base the standard of a county by how far the winners go in a club championship

the 2010 all ireland football final was played out by a team from antrim and a team from clare , both division 4 football counties at the time

thurles sarsfields lack of munster club championships has hardly affected tipperary hurling despite there club dominance over the years either

2012 hurling final teams from Offaly v Antrim....

mountgomery burns

If Ballygunner got a bye in to an all Ireland semi final every year, they'd have won a couple of all Irelands at this stage. Portumna were an exceptional team, St Thomas team from 2013 (I think) is no better than this BG team. Clarenbridge were blessed to beat De La Salle.

Ballyhale and Portumna, similar to Kilkenny, were exceptional teams and not representative of a province as a whole. Cuala recently have taken up the mantle, but it could have been Na Piarsaigh that beat them two years ago either and holding the 2/3 record. Do think Cuala will win it this year, they look excellent again.

JesusRef

cul beag wrote: »

The problem for the rest of the chasing clubs is probably numbers. Mt. Sion, Roanmore and DLS are all pulling from the same area while Erin’s Own are limited also. Head out the west and you have Dungarvan underage in tatters since Pat Curran stepped away and they’re now competing in Div 3 championships. Lismore/St. Carthage’s are relatively competitive but they cannot produce it yearly due to lack of numbers. Which leaves Abbeyside being the most likely to produce a sustained effort in the future because of the high volume of kids coming through with several former county players getting involved there as they have moved into the area.
By the way it seems MT Sion are definitely getting their house in order as they’re contesting a lot of semi finals and finals at underage which is good to see also.
All you can hope for is to be competitive at underage and try to bring those through to the senior team but in Ballygunner’s case,because of the high volume of kids and success now breeding more success there, i can’t see them being toppled for a long time to come.
Take Tallow Ballyduff Upper Lismore(all senior) Cappoquin Ballysaggart Shamrocks(all intermediate) Tourin Mellerary(all junior) there are 9 clubs all within 20 mins of each other or less, all trying to compete at different levels and the player pool getting smaller and smaller for all of them. Personally I believe for any of these to be considered as a threat in years to come I believe they will have to be amalgamations or they won’t survive. The same for all country clubs in the county will eventually happen as a high percentage of the young people are moving away rather than moving back to settle down.

Yep the clubs in the west are too small and they are getting smaller. How Ballyduff, who in.many ages cannot field a team at underage yet have still played senior for so long and won so many senior titles is a unbelievable achievement.... but it seems those days (families with armys of brothers) are gone.

The underage combinations should amalgamate at Adult... but I suspect it could only happen after a nuclear apocalypse.

Tallow and Shamrocks (and possibly Ballyduff)

Cappoquin, Glen Rovers, Tourin, Affane (already almalgamated with Cappoquin, a disaster for Affane football)

Lismore and Ballysaggart

Modeligo, Colligan and St. Marys

Geraldines, Ballinameela and the Brickeys

These are just sugesstions, but it would make it a lot more competitive...

The big disappointment at the moment is Dungarvan, Waterford Huing needs them badly but they have dropped down the divisions underage, they should be up there with Abbeyside and Ballygunnar. Dungarvan actually broke Lismores underage monoply back in the day....

Another is Cappoquin, judging by the juvenile gradings and results it seems they cant fall any lower, there was a real resurgence there in the last few years, produced quality players and this played a factor in getting bcs to harty and Cappoquin senior, but it seems to have fallen apart..... the last 10-15 years at underage proved the know how is there.. its a shame to see it fall away to that level so quickly

At least Lismore and Mt Sion are on the up again.

BloodyBill

DiscoStew wrote: »

If they win the intermediate Ballygunner have the option to have 2 senior teams yes. They can’t represent Waterford in Munster however as they are not a first string team, I believe.

Sixmilebridge had the same issue about 40 years ago. 2 senior teams.They ended up trying to have 1 strong and 1 feeder senior team. It nearly split the club as a great bond in the 2nd team was developed and the 1sts were seen as the enemy..