Waterford GAA thread - mod warning post #1 and #51

Cornerstoner

thesaturdayman wrote: »

probably the right way to be going to be fair.

although by all accounts we are meant to have a serious pair of teams at this grade

Does anyone have the panel of players for this weekends tournaments?

Chalk McHugh

Anyone know the roll of honour for the Tony Forristal lads? When did this tournament begin?

cul beag

Chalk McHugh wrote: »

Anyone know the roll of honour for the Tony Forristal lads? When did this tournament begin?

I think it started around 1983 but as for the role of honour I can’t help you there. Have Waterford won it 4/5 times?

thesaturdayman

cul beag wrote: »

I think it started around 1983 but as for the role of honour I can’t help you there. Have Waterford won it 4/5 times?

Probably up on waterfordgaa.ie

Stacksofwacks

cul beag wrote: »

I think it started around 1983 but as for the role of honour I can’t help you there. Have Waterford won it 4/5 times?

Waterford havent won it very often. The first time was about 10 years ago and 1 or 2 since then

Mastermcgrath

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

Waterford havent won it very often. The first time was about 10 years ago and 1 or 2 since then

won it twice. 2007 (Jamie Barron, TDB and Jake Dillon) and 2010 (Patrick Curran, Shane Bennett, Conor Gleeson)

Lost a lot of finals in the noughties, but haven’t been back in a final since 2012.

mountgomery burns

Mastermcgrath wrote: »

won it twice. 2007 (Jamie Barron, TDB and Jake Dillon) and 2010 (Patrick Curran, Shane Bennett, Conor Gleeson)

Lost a lot of finals in the noughties, but haven’t been back in a final since 2012.

Gavin O Brien was captain in 2007, Jamie Barron only played Sonny Walsh as far as I know. De Burca would only have been 13 that year as well so I'd be surprised if he was on either TF or SW teams. Supposed it's nice to win anything but certainly wouldn't be too worried about it personally. Wonder is there anyone from the 2007 TF team starting for Waterford now when really they should be in their prime.

McNulty might have been on it.

BazBox

hardybuck wrote: »

Justin McCarthy's name got mentioned long after he went, and still comes up occasionally. Ditto for Michael Ryan and Davy.

And do they get the same grief that Derek gets off most people here???

Grief for quoting Shakespeare a few times:rolleyes: Jesus wept.

Cornerstoner

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/gaa/aidan-oconnell-expected-to-hit-the-ground-running-in-new-cork-gaa-role-946405.html

We are being left for dead. All the other counties are being run like professional operations now. Lets hope that review committee come up with something similar or we have got no hope

Deise Gael

Mastermcgrath wrote: »

won it twice. 2007 (Jamie Barron, TDB and Jake Dillon) and 2010 (Patrick Curran, Shane Bennett, Conor Gleeson)

Lost a lot of finals in the noughties, but haven’t been back in a final since 2012.

From what I can recall only Gavin O'Brien, Jake Dillon and Ray Barry from the first Forristal winning team played Senior Championship for Waterford .

I don't think Jamie Barron or Tadhg were on it.

Ian Kenny from Ballygunner and Cathal Curran from Dungarvan were also on it.

mountgomery burns

Deise Gael wrote: »

From what I can recall only Gavin O'Brien, Jake Dillon and Ray Barry from the first Forristal winning team played Senior Championship for Waterford .

I don't think Jamie Barron or Tadhg were on it.

Ian Kenny from Ballygunner and Cathal Curran from Dungarvan were also on it.

Kenny started championship v Cork last year if I recall correctly. Played a few leagues games

Deise_abu

cul beag wrote: »

I think it started around 1983 but as for the role of honour I can’t help you there. Have Waterford won it 4/5 times?

Would be very surprised if Waterford make the latter stages this year to be honest

Tipp are very well drilled and a fair bit a head of most, Galway will most likely be there closest challenger

PTH2009

Any news of who the clubs nominated for the senior job ?

thesaturdayman

Cornerstoner wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/gaa/aidan-oconnell-expected-to-hit-the-ground-running-in-new-cork-gaa-role-946405.html

We are being left for dead. All the other counties are being run like professional operations now. Lets hope that review committee come up with something similar or we have got no hope

Don’t be one of these nameless ppl on twitter and social meejah knocking the board. They are doing there best, all volunteers & the board has no money.

We can’t compete with counties like cork, tipp or Kilkenny & we don’t have a jp and we don’t get Dublin’s funding and and and (insert other excuses)

But in all sincerity, Iv never seen the club scene as bad, there’ll be over 50 walkovers at adult level this year alone, clubs are on their knees financially & from a players stand point , young people are not playing Gaa & teams are getting older and older, costs of clubs playing in competitions is through the roof it must be 12 grand to enter one team at adult level!

We have 50 clubs at the moment, in 5 years team we won’t have 45 and in 10 we won’t have 35.

There must be 15 group / amalgamated sides Mary’s, pats, kill/fenor, ballyduff/portlaw, used to be portlaw mollerans, dunhill Butlerstown fenor underage how sustainable all those things are I don’t know.

But I do know my own club, very successful underage & we couldn’t field an u19 team this year (yet we won the minor!) young lads just stop, end of story, no going back

And another 20 clubs that don’t field any standalone juvenile teams - I find amazing how clubs like old parish, kilgobnet, tournaneena, St. Paul’s, John mitchells keep going year after year some must surely be close to the wall?

I honestly don’t think it’s rural depopulation completely, there is a general apathy towards Gaa in this county & much and all as id love to pin it on the board, I can’t totally, they have a hand in it, but I don’t know what the answer is, but we are in major free fall.

Derek Mcgrath, Pauric fanning, senior hurlers are really the least of our worries tbh and I hope this report covers that off

Road-Hog

thesaturdayman wrote: »

Don’t be one of these nameless ppl on twitter and social meejah knocking the board. They are doing there best, all volunteers & the board has no money.

We can’t compete with counties like cork, tipp or Kilkenny & we don’t have a jp and we don’t get Dublin’s funding and and and (insert other excuses)

But in all sincerity, Iv never seen the club scene as bad, there’ll be over 50 walkovers at adult level this year alone, clubs are on their knees financially & from a players stand point , young people are not playing Gaa & teams are getting older and older, costs of clubs playing in competitions is through the roof it must be 12 grand to enter one team at adult level!

We have 50 clubs at the moment, in 5 years team we won’t have 45 and in 10 we won’t have 35.

There must be 15 group / amalgamated sides Mary’s, pats, kill/fenor, ballyduff/portlaw, used to be portlaw mollerans, dunhill Butlerstown fenor underage how sustainable all those things are I don’t know.

But I do know my own club, very successful underage & we couldn’t field an u19 team this year (yet we won the minor!) young lads just stop, end of story, no going back

And another 20 clubs that don’t field any standalone juvenile teams - I find amazing how clubs like old parish, kilgobnet, tournaneena, St. Paul’s, John mitchells keep going year after year some must surely be close to the wall?

I honestly don’t think it’s rural depopulation completely, there is a general apathy towards Gaa in this county & much and all as id love to pin it on the board, I can’t totally, they have a hand in it, but I don’t know what the answer is, but we are in major free fall.

Derek Mcgrath, Pauric fanning, senior hurlers are really the least of our worries tbh and I hope this report covers that off

Surely there is a local ‘wealthy’ business/business person who would be willing to ‘sponsor/assist’ the county team......maybe not in the mega rich category like McManus for limerick but surely there is a Waterford bred millionaire or two out there who might be willing to cover some of the costs associated with running the ‘country team....?

Gardner

Road-Hog wrote: »

Surely there is a local ‘wealthy’ business/business person who would be willing to ‘sponsor/assist’ the county team......maybe not in the mega rich category like McManus for limerick but surely there is a Waterford bred millionaire or two out there who might be willing to cover some of the costs associated with running the ‘country team....?

why would he/she do that when there is practically 0% return on it?

if your willing to throw away a million a year on a sports team over a 3/4 year period then you would get involved in WFC where that million a year would probably get you a return on your investment if the club qualified for the Europa League or Champions League. Dundalk and Rovers are prime examples of this.

Gardner

thesaturdayman wrote: »

Don’t be one of these nameless ppl on twitter and social meejah knocking the board. They are doing there best, all volunteers & the board has no money.

We can’t compete with counties like cork, tipp or Kilkenny & we don’t have a jp and we don’t get Dublin’s funding and and and (insert other excuses)

But in all sincerity, Iv never seen the club scene as bad, there’ll be over 50 walkovers at adult level this year alone, clubs are on their knees financially & from a players stand point , young people are not playing Gaa & teams are getting older and older, costs of clubs playing in competitions is through the roof it must be 12 grand to enter one team at adult level!

We have 50 clubs at the moment, in 5 years team we won’t have 45 and in 10 we won’t have 35.

There must be 15 group / amalgamated sides Mary’s, pats, kill/fenor, ballyduff/portlaw, used to be portlaw mollerans, dunhill Butlerstown fenor underage how sustainable all those things are I don’t know.

But I do know my own club, very successful underage & we couldn’t field an u19 team this year (yet we won the minor!) young lads just stop, end of story, no going back

And another 20 clubs that don’t field any standalone juvenile teams - I find amazing how clubs like old parish, kilgobnet, tournaneena, St. Paul’s, John mitchells keep going year after year some must surely be close to the wall?

I honestly don’t think it’s rural depopulation completely, there is a general apathy towards Gaa in this county & much and all as id love to pin it on the board, I can’t totally, they have a hand in it, but I don’t know what the answer is, but we are in major free fall.

Derek Mcgrath, Pauric fanning, senior hurlers are really the least of our worries tbh and I hope this report covers that off

Great post. i'm waiting for a few lads to come on and blame DMG with his harty cup exploits and robbing players from other schools etc. as the reason why underage hurling has problems in the Deise.

thesultan

thesaturdayman wrote: »

Cornerstoner wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/gaa/aidan-oconnell-expected-to-hit-the-ground-running-in-new-cork-gaa-role-946405.html

We are being left for dead. All the other counties are being run like professional operations now. Lets hope that review committee come up with something similar or we have got no hope

Don’t be one of these nameless ppl on twitter and social meejah knocking the board. They are doing there best, all volunteers & the board has no money.

We can’t compete with counties like cork, tipp or Kilkenny & we don’t have a jp and we don’t get Dublin’s funding and and and (insert other excuses)

But in all sincerity, Iv never seen the club scene as bad, there’ll be over 50 walkovers at adult level this year alone, clubs are on their knees financially & from a players stand point , young people are not playing Gaa & teams are getting older and older, costs of clubs playing in competitions is through the roof it must be 12 grand to enter one team at adult level!

We have 50 clubs at the moment, in 5 years team we won’t have 45 and in 10 we won’t have 35.

There must be 15 group / amalgamated sides Mary’s, pats, kill/fenor, ballyduff/portlaw, used to be portlaw mollerans, dunhill Butlerstown fenor underage how sustainable all those things are I don’t know.

But I do know my own club, very successful underage & we couldn’t field an u19 team this year (yet we won the minor!) young lads just stop, end of story, no going back

And another 20 clubs that don’t field any standalone juvenile teams - I find amazing how clubs like old parish, kilgobnet, tournaneena, St. Paul’s, John mitchells keep going year after year some must surely be close to the wall?

I honestly don’t think it’s rural depopulation completely, there is a general apathy towards Gaa in this county & much and all as id love to pin it on the board, I can’t totally, they have a hand in it, but I don’t know what the answer is, but we are in major free fall.

Derek Mcgrath, Pauric fanning, senior hurlers are really the least of our worries tbh and I hope this report covers that off

How much of an effect was the abolished u21 grade in the county. Only u19 now. Crazy decision for me..

hardybuck

Road-Hog wrote: »

Surely there is a local ‘wealthy’ business/business person who would be willing to ‘sponsor/assist’ the county team......maybe not in the mega rich category like McManus for limerick but surely there is a Waterford bred millionaire or two out there who might be willing to cover some of the costs associated with running the ‘country team....?

Forget about the county team for a minute, because you're flushing that money down the drain unless you're looking after the club scene too.

Now obviously the county team going well gets young lads interested in GAA, but thesaturdayman raised valid points regarding the state of the club scene.

Why are clubs struggling financially and why are teams giving walkovers like this?

Obi1mikal

thesultan wrote: »

How much of an effect was the abolished u21 grade in the county. Only u19 now. Crazy decision for me..

Absolutely crazy decision, considering it is straight knock out and only 7 teams involved, 4 in the east and 3 in the west and one and only semi final in the west has already been a walkover. This years u19's make up next years u20 county panel and there is only 5 games in it (assuming no more walkovers are given), not much for next years manager to look at.

hardybuck

thesultan wrote: »

How much of an effect was the abolished u21 grade in the county. Only u19 now. Crazy decision for me..

What was the logic for this move?

U20 would seem like the obvious age to bring it in line with the intercounty, and to give young lads coming out of minor to play for two years at their age group while developing. It also gives clubs another years worth of lads to make up a team.

Straight knockout was always a feature at U21 and always a farce. Teams would be thrown out on the field at fairly short notice in a lot of clubs, and most teams only get 1-2 fixtures.

If you're looking to encourage guys to play other sports, or worse to just give up sport generally during this important stage of their lives, these structures are ideal.

Obi1mikal

Straight knockout was always a feature at U21 and always a farce. Teams would be thrown out on the field at fairly short notice in a lot of clubs, and most teams only get 1-2 fixtures.

If you're looking to encourage guys to play other sports, or worse to just give up sport generally during this important stage of their lives, these structures are ideal.[/QUOTE]



Exactly and if there is a need to continue to hold a straight knockout competition have it at u23 maybe, thus keeping some lads a little longer and have them more physically ready for adult hurling.

I really can not get my head around having a straight club knock out competition when there is an inter county competition directly one year above.

mountgomery burns

I recall the u21 hurling county finals a few years ago being played the following summer. Think it might have been 2016 as that year Waterford had a replay in the league, and the extended run in both the senior and u21 inter county championship which meant a backlog for the senior county championship and no space for the u21 in between. When you think about it, there was a max 4 games to be played and they took 18 months to play.

Minor also puts the thing on ice as clubs won't play without inter county players. Poor scheduling and structures can't be the only answer to that problem, there are serious difficulties at that particular age group to have proper club competitions just down to the overlap between three different inter county age groups.

Obi1mikal

mountgomery burns wrote: »

I recall the u21 hurling county finals a few years ago being played the following summer. Think it might have been 2016 as that year Waterford had a replay in the league, and the extended run in both the senior and u21 inter county championship which meant a backlog for the senior county championship and no space for the u21 in between. When you think about it, there was a max 4 games to be played and they took 18 months to play.

Minor also puts the thing on ice as clubs won't play without inter county players. Poor scheduling and structures can't be the only answer to that problem, there are serious difficulties at that particular age group to have proper club competitions just down to the overlap between three different inter county age groups.

Totally understand that, my point is that u16 and u18 were ran last year with little fuss and by all accounts two very good and competitive championships. (I am only speaking about the A championships as I am not fully sure how the other divisions played out). So when they changed to u17 and u19 they could of ran two proper championships again. Just provisionally use the same dates and fixtures as the previous year and run an u23 straight knockout competition later in the year if needs be.

thesaturdayman

hardybuck wrote: »

Forget about the county team for a minute, because you're flushing that money down the drain unless you're looking after the club scene too.

Now obviously the county team going well gets young lads interested in GAA, but thesaturdayman raised valid points regarding the state of the club scene.

Why are clubs struggling financially and why are teams giving walkovers like this?

Why are clubs struggling? Few sentences based on my experiences;

Levies add 15-20% running cost to clubs 2000 for a senior club is 2 big fundraisers annually on bailing out the incompetent and inefficient entity that is Waterford county board

Lack of coverage in media locally means hard sell to sponsors, coverage analysis and commentary by so call “journalists” is biased, egotistical and agenda driven for majority of times.

The board itself also does little to help promote games on a Sunday night for eg 50 miles away for clubs, blatntly robbing people who want to attend multiple games instead of weekend passes, not enough double headers, not utilizing carriganore or Walsh park for senior competitions

Cost of insurance is one thing but cost of entering competitions is majorly off putting - 1000+ for an u21 team that gets one game if and probably will be beaten if a weaker club, hardly worth it especially if can barely field some do the cost benefit analysis on a short term basis but really long term killing themselves this is driven by divisional and county boards

Scheduling of games ie minor football starting in feb in muck and ****e. Scandalous tbh.

A vicious circle as you can see & those in positions of responsibility in my opinion 1. Can’t see the woods from the trees as they are removed from clubs so long and are career administrators, 2. Don’t want to listen or engage with people like me and others 3. Think everything is a personal attack driven by their own egos 4. Don’t care - if they did they’d have had audiences with clubs

mickotallow

thesaturdayman wrote: »

Why are clubs struggling? Few sentences based on my experiences;

Levies add 15-20% running cost to clubs 2000 for a senior club is 2 big fundraisers annually on bailing out the incompetent and inefficient entity that is Waterford county board

Lack of coverage in media locally means hard sell to sponsors, coverage analysis and commentary by so call “journalists” is biased, egotistical and agenda driven for majority of times.

The board itself also does little to help promote games on a Sunday night for eg 50 miles away for clubs, blatntly robbing people who want to attend multiple games instead of weekend passes, not enough double headers, not utilizing carriganore or Walsh park for senior competitions

Cost of insurance is one thing but cost of entering competitions is majorly off putting - 1000+ for an u21 team that gets one game if and probably will be beaten if a weaker club, hardly worth it especially if can barely field some do the cost benefit analysis on a short term basis but really long term killing themselves this is driven by divisional and county boards

Scheduling of games ie minor football starting in feb in muck and ****e. Scandalous tbh.

A vicious circle as you can see & those in positions of responsibility in my opinion 1. Can’t see the woods from the trees as they are removed from clubs so long and are career administrators, 2. Don’t want to listen or engage with people like me and others 3. Think everything is a personal attack driven by their own egos 4. Don’t care - if they did they’d have had audiences with clubs

Another huge factor is the money involved in training a team now. Young lads these days can’t scratch themselves without looking for a physio. Never mind training a team. That takes up huge time, effort and commitment. The money in is physios for hurling teams.
Also I heard the county board giving out about their training costs increasing this year because the Waterford team went back training earlier this year because they finished so early in 2018 and because the league start was brought forward. What about the club team that has the expenses of their team going back training in Jan for one match in April and continue training to September? This is the majority of costs for every club I would imagine. Physios, trainers, sliotars, referees, lights, electricity etc. All adds up when teams are training.
County board never think of that when they force levies onto clubs and when PJR says “that the clubs are the county board”. Funny then that when clubs ask for a definitive club calendar or for weekends off cos heaven forbid players decide to have a life while waiting months for a game, they get a firm no.

upthedeise16

Chalk McHugh wrote: »

Anyone know the roll of honour for the Tony Forristal lads? When did this tournament begin?

A list of all winners and the minor champions 4 years later

thesaturdayman

upthedeise16 wrote: »

A list of all winners and the minor champions 4 years later

Great stat. No correlation so!!

Mulbert

The list is wrong.

Stopitwillya

thesaturdayman wrote: »

hardybuck wrote: »

Why are clubs struggling? Few sentences based on my experiences;

Levies add 15-20% running cost to clubs 2000 for a senior club is 2 big fundraisers annually on bailing out the incompetent and inefficient entity that is Waterford county board

Lack of coverage in media locally means hard sell to sponsors, coverage analysis and commentary by so call “journalists” is biased, egotistical and agenda driven for majority of times.

The board itself also does little to help promote games on a Sunday night for eg 50 miles away for clubs, blatntly robbing people who want to attend multiple games instead of weekend passes, not enough double headers, not utilizing carriganore or Walsh park for senior competitions

Cost of insurance is one thing but cost of entering competitions is majorly off putting - 1000+ for an u21 team that gets one game if and probably will be beaten if a weaker club, hardly worth it especially if can barely field some do the cost benefit analysis on a short term basis but really long term killing themselves this is driven by divisional and county boards

Scheduling of games ie minor football starting in feb in muck and ****e. Scandalous tbh.

A vicious circle as you can see & those in positions of responsibility in my opinion 1. Can’t see the woods from the trees as they are removed from clubs so long and are career administrators, 2. Don’t want to listen or engage with people like me and others 3. Think everything is a personal attack driven by their own egos 4. Don’t care - if they did they’d have had audiences with clubs

Excellent post.
All correct and we need young people like yourself to run for positions and to try change things.
More importantly the next county secretary is hopefully not just one of the boys but someone with not just getting the job because they have held lots of other GAA positions before but someone who has experience of successfully leading a professional organisation, a record of achieving results and someone with lots of new ideas and vision.