Waterford GAA thread - mod warning post #1 and #51

PTH2009

Should a player from the squad be involved in the selection committee. Someone like Brick (reckon he could stay on if the right person is involved)

EYEBALLSOUT

thesaturdayman wrote: »

And they didn’t respect fanning? Sorry now where did I miss the statement saying the players didn’t respect fanning?

I think you more than most know that they didn’t!
Just because you’re in some of the players pockets, doesn’t mean you didn’t see what everyone else saw! No need to be coy..

Fanning’s appointment was made without any player input- mistake no1.
Fanning’s backroom team was v average compared to other successful counties- mistake no 2.
Players felt underwhelmed by his appointment, his backroom team, choice for captain etc..... it showed on the field.

hardybuck

PTH2009 wrote: »

Should a player from the squad be involved in the selection committee. Someone like Brick (reckon he could stay on if the right person is involved)

It would be normal for player consultation, either formal or informal, but a place on the Committee is inappropriate IMO.

thesaturdayman

EYEBALLSOUT wrote: »

I think you more than most know that they didn’t!
Just because you’re in some of the players pockets, doesn’t mean you didn’t see what everyone else saw! No need to be coy..

Fanning’s appointment was made without any player input- mistake no1.
Fanning’s backroom team was v average compared to other successful counties- mistake no 2.
Players felt underwhelmed by his appointment, his backroom team, choice for captain etc..... it showed on the field.

You see you are making the mistake of assuming, when you assume you make an ASS out of U and ME.

If you think im in anyones pocket, (bar the lack!) you are greatly mistaken.

Carters post ref the Tipp game sums it up to a tee. Did Conor Gleeson throw the towel in getting sent off? Not for me. Was the tackle at the time needless / headless, probably but that and i mean this respectively has been in his game for a while so hardly totally out of character.

I think the team was set up poorly vs clare, horses for courses in walsh park, a more direct style and use the elements better was way to go that day, hindsight and all! The rumour mill was overheating all week from memory.

The following week against Tipp they came out all guns blazing and a combination of imploding and being blown away and well you know how the story ends from here. The same happened in the all ireland final sunday.

Difference? KK pundits stuck together, neutrals complimented tipp.

In actual fact there were a lot of similarities in both games as Carter excellently articulated - see earlier post.

When it happened Waterford the pundits and supporters turned on the team, innuendo & ambiguity took over and it was the players the players again. National pundits hopped on the bandwagon and it was all out free for all.

There is definitely a lesson in it for us all.

Hope springs eternal however & this review / plan for future can only be a positive especially with the caliber of person involved, some serious people in it. Hopefully this one wont end up being a dust gathering mechanism.

mountgomery burns

Suppose the one thing I'd say is in fairness to Kilkenny they were in an all Ireland final and had built up a store of credit. I did see the parallels of course but have to say they had beaten teams that gave us hammerings to get to that point.

Poor preparation, loss of confidence and lack of forwards account for a lot of problems this year I think.

EYEBALLSOUT

EYEBALLSOUT wrote: »

Players felt underwhelmed by his appointment, his backroom team, choice for captain etc..... it showed on the field.

I wouldn't have thought anyone would have an issue with Connors as captain last year?

cul beag

Anyone have any idea what the guy from Nemeton on the selection committee has to offer?

thesaturdayman

cul beag wrote: »

Anyone have any idea what the guy from Nemeton on the selection committee has to offer?

as the advert goes:

I can’t believe it’s not butter

I can’t believe it’s not mcdaragh

hardybuck

cul beag wrote: »

Anyone have any idea what the guy from Nemeton on the selection committee has to offer?

Perhaps an ability to chair interviews and be the head of an organisation?

Apart from an interest and involvement in GAA.

EYEBALLSOUT

Jjjjjjjjbarry wrote: »

I wouldn't have thought anyone would have an issue with Connors as captain last year?

Noel has been an excellent player but his legs have been gone the last two years, even at club level he’s not standing out. It was a bad move as I didn’t see him as a nailed on starter and as such a captain needs to lead from the front - he bailed out the minute the pressure came on v Clare. I know his team mates weren’t too enamored by his elegant dive.
Having followed club & county hurling closely, i just thought he had lost his speed- nothing personal. An obvious choice was De Burca or Philip Mahony.

EYEBALLSOUT

thesaturdayman wrote: »

You see you are making the mistake of assuming, when you assume you make an ASS out of U and ME.

If you think im in anyones pocket, (bar the lack!) you are greatly mistaken.

Carters post ref the Tipp game sums it up to a tee. Did Conor Gleeson throw the towel in getting sent off? Not for me. Was the tackle at the time needless / headless, probably but that and i mean this respectively has been in his game for a while so hardly totally out of character.

I think the team was set up poorly vs clare, horses for courses in walsh park, a more direct style and use the elements better was way to go that day, hindsight and all! The rumour mill was overheating all week from memory.

The following week against Tipp they came out all guns blazing and a combination of imploding and being blown away and well you know how the story ends from here. The same happened in the all ireland final sunday.

Difference? KK pundits stuck together, neutrals complimented tipp.

In actual fact there were a lot of similarities in both games as Carter excellently articulated - see earlier post.

When it happened Waterford the pundits and supporters turned on the team, innuendo & ambiguity took over and it was the players the players again. National pundits hopped on the bandwagon and it was all out free for all.

There is definitely a lesson in it for us all.

Hope springs eternal however & this review / plan for future can only be a positive especially with the caliber of person involved, some serious people in it. Hopefully this one wont end up being a dust gathering mechanism.

Listen, we’re comparing Kk performance in an ALL IRELAND FINAL to a round Robin league game- Jaysus get a grip!

First of all, Waterford team imploded more than once in the round robin series- it got worse as we went along. These performances are directly linked to morale and some senior players not putting in a decent shift because they couldn’t get there way in terms of team strategy etc... tail wagging the dog.

The only comparison between Waterford and Kk is that neither Panels were totally satisfied with their mgmt team and tactics. (All was not well in the kk camp this year btwn key players and mgmt in terms of style of play etc...)
The difference is that when the kk man put on his jersey, he’s playing not for himself but rather the bigger picture. This had been always the case until last Sunday where it all unraveled. The results of internal wrangling between players and mgmt came to the fore as they reverted back to route 1 hurling- the players stopped trying to work it through the lines. When the pressure comes on in games its the the tightest group generally wins. Also, how many times have we ever seen kk implode like last Sun- virtually none.
Waterford on the other hand thru the toys out of the pram at the first sign of discontent and played for themselves as opposed to the jersey on their backs. The end result was a beating of nearly two digit defeats in every game.

I love the way we just paper over things in this county instead of facing up to the issues & dealing with them. Instead we have cheerleaders like yourself and a few more on here talking rubbish and trying to defend the indefensible.
Bottom line no matter what the mgmt team is next year , players need to take ownership for themselves and accept responsibility for when they play poorly and people like you need to stop being there cheerleaders and wrapping them up in Cotton Wool.

It will be interesting to see how we get on next year but looking at last Sun- Tipp have a few young guns blooded and primed, Lk will be kicking themselves and so after a summers break they’ll be chomping at the bit. Cork will only be getting stronger having reached 2 u20s All Ireland’s (albeit 1 at u21 level) in a row. There is still a fight in Clare. Where do we fit in?
Hard to say really- we def don’t have enough quality forwards of the standard in Tipp or Lk or even Cork. We are playing backs in the forwards- Brick/Aussie&Moran.
We have about 4/5 players at the end of the road - Brick/Moran(40/50mins)/Noelie/Shane Fives & possibly Dara Fives(injury prone). The Mahony’s are not far behind.

Interesting times ahead.

tonc76

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/gaa/mcgrath-rules-out-return-to-waterford-hotseat-945538.html

thesaturdayman

I wouldn’t see I’m a cheerleader tbf, more the harbinger of doom.

Calling the tipp game a round robin league game is disingenuous, it was pretty much a siht or burst game lose we were all but done. Almost a season defining game. Was the same way last year.

The most disappointing game without doubt was the limerick game however, toxic is how I’d define the feeling around the place going out, the whole thing stank.

I’d agree on the forwards side, we don’t have any & have lads cobbled together in the forwards who are prob better backs.

Certainly no inter county level natural athletic instinctive forwards akin to a Mullane Flynn Dan

Maybe you can see now why Derek tried shoehorning Aussie, Moran, brick in there over the years.

I don’t accept the argument the Bennett’s Curran’s development was held back tbh it wasn’t an issue in their u21 team, the reality is they haven’t ultimately been able to transition to consistently performing at inter county level.

Lastly to back up the above & it’s not a slight or a dig, Tommy Ryan has never really consistently played 2-3-4 games on the spin in champ under a number of mgrs back to Davys time, now the chap is pushing 30 years of age he is suddenly seen as the go to man? Or an instant starter!

There is a reason the chap didn’t consistently start and now is in top 2-3 - the others aren’t making the grade.

We are at the bottom of the barrel, we need to knock one more year out of this group and then really have a clear out and build again, that I fear will result in 4-5 years of short summers at least / if ever we go further

hardybuck

tonc76 wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/gaa/mcgrath-rules-out-return-to-waterford-hotseat-945538.html

I expect there was no way he was going to apply for the role and do an interview. Especially if there was a prospect that the Committee might select someone else.

Mastermcgrath

tonc76 wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/gaa/mcgrath-rules-out-return-to-waterford-hotseat-945538.html

To clarify; ‘I’m ruling myself out of a role that no one actually approached me about, or has even said I’m in the running for, bar myself’.

That’s the ‘breaking news’

cul beag

thesaturdayman wrote: »

I wouldn’t see I’m a cheerleader tbf, more the harbinger of doom.

Calling the tipp game a round robin league game is disingenuous, it was pretty much a siht or burst game lose we were all but done. Almost a season defining game. Was the same way last year.

The most disappointing game without doubt was the limerick game however, toxic is how I’d define the feeling around the place going out, the whole thing stank.

I’d agree on the forwards side, we don’t have any & have lads cobbled together in the forwards who are prob better backs.

Certainly no inter county level natural athletic instinctive forwards akin to a Mullane Flynn Dan

Maybe you can see now why Derek tried shoehorning Aussie, Moran, brick in there over the years.

I don’t accept the argument the Bennett’s Curran’s development was held back tbh it wasn’t an issue in their u21 team, the reality is they haven’t ultimately been able to transition to consistently performing at inter county level.

Lastly to back up the above & it’s not a slight or a dig, Tommy Ryan has never really consistently played 2-3-4 games on the spin in champ under a number of mgrs back to Davys time, now the chap is pushing 30 years of age he is suddenly seen as the go to man? Or an instant starter!

There is a reason the chap didn’t consistently start and now is in top 2-3 - the others aren’t making the grade.

We are at the bottom of the barrel, we need to knock one more year out of this group and then really have a clear out and build again, that I fear will result in 4-5 years of short summers at least / if ever we go further

My argument to that though is given the proper playing system these natural forwards can flourish. You take a look at this year’s championship to date and you will see that Jack Fagan Ryan Donnelly Ray Barry Paudi Prendergast( and I’ll include Maurice Shanahan in this) have all stood out. Now while they’re not exactly All Stars,surely they would strengthen the panel or even push for a starting position. All these fellas were dispersed of for one reason or another and could be looked at again. You see how Liam Sheedy maximised the full potential from his 6 forwards even without Bonnar Maher. Eamonn O Shea has no ego problems and for the betterment of Tipp hurling came back and worked diligently with these forwards. I’m not for one minute saying we have the calibre of the Tipp forwards on tap but I’d be inclined to think that if Big Dan was given a specific role in the new set up he could improve these fellas. Jimmy Meaney(aside from the league final last week) seems to have Donnelly moving well again, the same with Bull Phelan in DLS with Fagan so maybe it’s more than a coincidence that Maurice is flying at the moment now that Dan is coaching Lismore?
The Tommy Ryan argument is probably because you had the likes of Jake Dillon and Brian O Halloran being picked before him and let’s be honest are not natural scorers like Ryan. Mickey Kearney has been given more than enough chances at this level so maybe it’s time to give the likes of Curran and Ryan an extended run in the team. Playing Shane Bennett in the full forward line seems to curtail his natural ability. He would be a better option out in the middle third where he could contribute a lot more.

deiseach

That's a relief. Now we can close the contest to see who can say the snottiest thing about him. You're all winners, lads!

cul beag

Mastermcgrath wrote: »

To clarify; ‘I’m ruling myself out of a role that no one actually approached me about, or has even said I’m in the running for, bar myself’.

That’s the ‘breaking news’

It’s obvious that he put out the feelers last week and when he didn’t like the response he declared himself out of the race. You wouldn’t have to be 3rd level educated to see that!

rekdtangle

carter10 wrote: »

As regards the narrative which has built up around the players since the Clare game namely that they 'downed tools'; Waterford went in at half time 6 points and a man down away to Tipp - 15 minutes into the second half they had got back to 3 points only for a quick goal and point to put the game beyond reach- que accusations from both inside and outside the county that they 'downed tools'
Last Sunday KK went in 1 point and a man down and lost by 14. Unlike waterford who stuck to their game plan and worked the ball through the lines KK resorted to lumping ball down on the isolated full forward. After the game we had the usual guff from Cody and the media about KK 'not giving up etc. Narratives
These same players got to an all Ireland and league final in the last 2 years yet consistently get grief from both inside and outside the county. The player driven move to remove Justin has created a legacy issue for current waterford players and they are viewed as trouble- (similar to Mayo)
The problems we face are way more complex than the effort or attitude of a few young men. The attitude of some on here who have never had the talent or the inclination to put in the months of training in winter and make the sacrifices that these players have is disappointing. Keyboard warriors.
The Tipperary S & C coach gave up a job with Arsenal and moved from London to Thurles to work full time with Tipp hurlers- he also has an assistant- paid for by Tipps sponsors- just one small example of what counties like ours are up against. I doubt there is even one member of the waterford backroom on more than travel expenses. Tipp have 3 people for video analysis alone.

Narrative- Austin Gleeson is trouble. Last Sunday Richie Hogan deservedly got a red card. Since Sunday we've had Brian Cody, Henry Shefflin, Jackie Tyrell and Richie Hogan and Eoin Larkin come out on TV and Social media to rail against it, Richie Hogan himself giving an interview on OTB this morning being treated like one of the Guilford 4.
Contrast this with the tsunami of criticism after the 2017 semi final and Gleesons alleged pull on Luke Meads helmet. The same Eddie Brennan declaring on the Sunday game that he should be banned for the final and also writing 2 articles the following week about it! Completely different attitude when it came to the more clear cut evidence last weekend.
These people set the narrative, what people hear from pundits on Sunday evening becomes fact down the shop on Monday morning.
I'm following waterford hurlers long enough to have seen players drinking pints on the night before championship and being so unfit and uninterested that they got relegated to division 3. The present players are nowhere near that.
We need to pull together now not be constantly at each other and the player's throats. The formation of this group with Michael Walsh ( Who incidentally played on the relegated team) is a positive move and hopefully will bear friut in time. Also last week our u15 beat Westmeath in an all ireland football B tournament proving that not all those involved in GAA in Waterford are useless.

I won't claim to know much about the in's and out's of Waterford hurling other than being an armchair fan.

But S&C salary even with the big clubs in the UK is a pittance. I saw a premier league club job advertisement recently where salary was £35-40k DOE.

Video analysts cheaper again.

Surely we should be able to afford these things through sponsorship?

PTH2009

As regards trying to attract an outside manager were up against a few things

Financial support
Other jobs available like Cork, Galway and quite possibly Clare, Kilkenny and Wexford too

This is a crucial appointment and the best quality research needs to be done by the committee. There getting a nice wedge for there service no doubt

killbillvol2

PTH2009 wrote: »

As regards trying to attract an outside manager were up against a few things

Financial support
Other jobs available like Cork, Galway and quite possibly Clare, Kilkenny and Wexford too

This is a crucial appointment and the best quality research needs to be done by the committee. There getting a nice wedge for there service no doubt

So we've no money but they're paying the committee a nice wedge? Do you ever listen to yourself?

Mastermcgrath

deiseach wrote: »

That's a relief. Now we can close the contest to see who can say the snottiest thing about him. You're all winners, lads!

.

I think the majority of people are just highlighting some of the bizarre stuff that he’s come out with in the media. Lashing out on the Sunday game, then backtracking in subsequent interviews. Ruling himself in for the Waterford job, then ruling himself out as soon as a sub-committee is put together. The spat with Ken McGrath and then the comment about third level.

For me it’s a relief he’s out of the picture for the job, not because of his managerial ability but he’s such a divisive high profile figure at this stage I think the atmosphere would be toxic around the county were he to go back now

Deskjockey

thesaturdayman wrote: »

Certainly no inter county level natural athletic instinctive forwards akin to a Mullane Flynn Dan

I'd say that's the first time Flynner was ever called athletic!! Natural, instinctive alright...

thesaturdayman

Deskjockey wrote: »

I'd say that's the first time Flynner was ever called athletic!! Natural, instinctive alright...

as the song goes 2 outta 3 aint bad!!

PTH2009

few big knockout games in the clubs this weekend

Senior Hurling Championship premlimary QFs
Ballyduff Upper vs Roanmore ( Sat 24th Fraher Field 6pm)
Tallow vs Passage (Sat 24th Fraher Field 7.30pm)
Mount Sion vs Clonea (Sun 25th Walsh Park 2.30pm)
Dungarvan vs Fourmilewater (Sun 25th Fraher Field 7pm)

DLS, Ballygunner, Lismore and Abbeyside in the QFs

emergingstar

I see Ballygunner are in QF of Senior, Intermediate, and Semi final in Junior A

Will they win all 3??

mountgomery burns

emergingstar wrote: »

I see Ballygunner are in QF of Senior, Intermediate, and Semi final in Junior A

Will they win all 3??

Doubt it

tommylad1212

mountgomery burns wrote: »

Doubt it

Saw the inter game last week v portlaw looked a strong team , but portlaw were shocking

EYEBALLSOUT

Tipp had some win in the u20s tonight v cork. Thats 2 in a row for them. Allied to their senior win and thats serious talent coming through.
The Senior appointment that is crucial the committee get right! Another poor appointment will spell the end for a number if big players who have given unbelievable service to the deise cause! But the knock on effect will have worse consequences for morale within the gaa circles. The pressure is certainly on this committee to come up with the goods! An outside manager would be the preferred option I assume by all on here and if their doing the job right they should be lining up a homegrown successor as part of the selection committee.

PTH2009

Passage 2-19- Tallow 0-15
Roanmore 2-15- Ballyduff Upper 2-13

Passage and Roanmore into the QFs with Tallow and Ballyduff Lower going into the Relegation playoffs