Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 3 **MOD NOTE POST 1***

Hawkeye6

JJs Left Hand wrote: »

Our county board can't organise juvenile hurling tournaments properly.

Just a reminder of your sweeping statement that instigated this discussion.

JJs Left Hand wrote: »

The U13s actually have the perfect season at the minute:

I have to admit I did not see that U-turn coming.

JJs Left Hand wrote: »

I'm from a country club, I'm involved with a team in that age group, I have U13s playing U15 to make up numbers, I have U15s playing minor to make up numbers and not a single person I've talked to, whether they are from other clubs in our group or parents of the kids I train think the current fixture list is any use.

Your agenda is obviously solely Under-15 hurling manager. No football mentioned. Therefore, It was no surprise the only area you offered a solution was for Under-15 hurling. I did ask that you look outside your own empire/universe. That’s what fixtures committees have to do. Anyone could look after one Roinn in one code. Anyway to your Under-15 proposal;

JJs Left Hand wrote: »

And this is based on a competition of 17 teams in B. A proper competition would see 12 in A and 12 in B and that still gives a guaranteed 12 competitive games and more scope to fit games in.

Your solution only covers the League. No mention of the championship. A 17-team league is 136 matches which you want to be competitive. However, it’s not the premiership where there are champions league and Europa league places at stake as well as relegation to be avoided. Within 4-5 rounds, the vast majority of teams will be out of the running and the majority of matches will turn into challenge games and the further on, the more walk overs will take place. Could easily have two teams left in the running away half way through leaving approximately 65 redundant games to be played. There is only one winner in GAA leagues. Or have you a plan for incentives for a top four finish? Are you thinking of introducing relegation instead of grading for juvenile GAA?

No matter what I say, you’re not contemplating that holidays, school trips, Irish college etc. being an issue, so for the sake of progress I’ll pretend you are right. Although I would mention that in 2018, Blacks & Whites only had 16 eligible minors and the same for Carrickshock this year. One lad on holiday, one in Irish college at the same time, they cannot field a team. You are going to make them concede the game or just make it a draw? It would be great if they all went on holidays/Irish college the one week, then they’d only have to concede one game.

In summary,
You think Under-13 is perfect, You have a league only for under-15 with loads of planned games, You have no minor options and no football. It’s way too early in this discussion to throw in Development squads and the shortage of referees. But would like to tease out your solution to the fixtures.

JJs Left Hand wrote: »

Anyway I'm waffling now.

You have waffled but on the other hand, I think the discussion is enlightening and is probably giving people the chance to understand fixtures and maybe appreciate what is there and not complain without putting down on paper the options for solutions. At the moment and in my opinion the county board has the best solution available which does take into account all ages, football and development squads. But to be fair, you are entitled to propose options.

kkclubhurling

Back from the park where the Minors took a one point victory over Dublin.

It’s a very different style team to last year, probably not the same slickness or speed in the forwards but we’ve a very big pacy set of backs, none moreso than Zach Bay Hammond who was excellent. Halpin operated anywhere from 8-15 up to this underage, for his first competitive game at full back I thought he did very well on Swan who hit 3 against KK last year. The whole half back line hurled well and in forwards I thought Liam Moore tried hard and got on ball.

If a couple more of the forwards came on a small bit it’s a decent little team, probably off last years crop but physically quite big which is a big part of underage hurling!

Comerman

kkclubhurling wrote: »

Back from the park where the Minors took a one point victory over Dublin.

It’s a very different style team to last year, probably not the same slickness or speed in the forwards but we’ve a very big pacy set of backs, none moreso than Zach Bay Hammond who was excellent. Halpin operated anywhere from 8-15 up to this underage, for his first competitive game at full back I thought he did very well on Swan who hit 3 against KK last year. The whole half back line hurled well and in forwards I thought Liam Moore tried hard and got on ball.

If a couple more of the forwards came on a small bit it’s a decent little team, probably off last years crop but physically quite big which is a big part of underage hurling!

Agree totally with that, some nice confident hurlers especially Hammond, I'd play him half back though with his pace.

minty81

Which of the Hickeys is Andy's father?

What i thought notable was the spread of clubs, only 2 starters today from senior clubs

babyjesus14

kkclubhurling wrote: »

Back from the park where the Minors took a one point victory over Dublin.

It’s a very different style team to last year, probably not the same slickness or speed in the forwards but we’ve a very big pacy set of backs, none moreso than Zach Bay Hammond who was excellent. Halpin operated anywhere from 8-15 up to this underage, for his first competitive game at full back I thought he did very well on Swan who hit 3 against KK last year. The whole half back line hurled well and in forwards I thought Liam Moore tried hard and got on ball.

If a couple more of the forwards came on a small bit it’s a decent little team, probably off last years crop but physically quite big which is a big part of underage hurling!

We have Jack Doyle to come back into the forwards which will make a difference going forward. I had only seen Hammond on a few occasions before as he didn't hurl much last year as he was playing soccer with Waterford utd under 15's but I must say I was hugely impressed with him today, he was the standout on the Kilkenny team.

babyjesus14

minty81 wrote: »

Which of the Hickeys is Andy's father?

What i thought notable was the spread of clubs, only 2 starters today from senior clubs

Jim.

kksaints

babyjesus14 wrote: »

We have Jack Doyle to come back into the forwards which will make a difference going forward. I had only seen Hammond on a few occasions before as he didn't hurl much last year as he was playing soccer with Waterford utd under 15's but I must say I was hugely impressed with him today, he was the standout on the Kilkenny team.

It was actually Carlow-Kilkenny under 15s he was with. Chap seems a natural athlete, he's also won all-Ireland medals in athletics.

babyjesus14

kksaints wrote: »

It was actually Carlow-Kilkenny under 15s he was with. Chap seems a natural athlete, he's also won all-Ireland medals in athletics.

That doesn't surprise me, he's rapid. The time he got out in front of his man hand passed the ball out over a Dublin players head to Peter McDonald who lost his footing so Zak kept going and collected his own hand pass and cleared it was the highlight for me!

Village87

The 2 best players on the field today were Zac Bay Hammond and a Dublin full back called DavId Crowe. Both players really stood out as potential stars of the future. If Hammond keeps improving his hurling at the rate he is going the potential is unlimited.

2 decent teams, Killenny half back line and midfield dominated the 2nd half. Was really the winning of the match

citykat

What really stood out for me today was the hooks, blocks, flicks. The dubs were bigger than us but these skills are a great leveller.

blackcard

Hammond was good, would have liked to see him at half back as he saw very little ball in the second half. The Dublin full back was outstanding, the amount of ball he cleared was ridiculous, Kilkenny were well on top in the second half but did not take their opportunities. They will have to improve their finishing but have some promising players

sportsmaddad

JUVENILE FIXTURES
Good to see some discussion here on what is an annual topic on the sidelines of Juvenile matches. As everyone knows, the disorganization of fixtures is a problem throughout the GAA from the very top down.

But we're looking at Kilkenny fixtures here. Yes, the Kilkenny Juvenile fixtures committee come in for a lot of abuse. To be fair to them, they do get some things right, but there's definitely room for improvement. Here's how I'd summarize it

POSITIVES
- Clubs are given a calendar at the start of the season. All League fixtures and 1st Round Championship are there in black and white. OK, dates do change but sometimes clubs are the cause of this, for many of the reasons outlined elsewhere here.
- Fixtures run over nearly the full calendar year, from early February until well into December.

NEGATIVES
- While the full calendar year is used, there's a ridiculously uneven spread of games throughout the year. U15 (&U16 before it) is an extreme case. As was pointed out elsewhere, the U15 season is more or less the month of April + 1 match in August if you lose 1st round. All other grades have a similar mix of a fixtures glut + huge breaks with nothing happening.
- Yes there's far too much chopping and changing of fixtures. This is very often because games are so piled on top of each other. And it's usually left to club coaches and secretaries to sort out the mess.

Could I throw a few suggestions out there. Maybe it's time to start thinking outside the box, and not just continue repeating the same mistakes and expecting things to get better. Some of these overlap / contradict each other. I'm just putting them out there as food for thought.

SUGGESTIONS
- Start all grades in early February. As I said, the fixtures start in early February, but I only ever see U13 football fixed before the end of March. Why not spread all grades over the entire season? From start Feb to, say end Oct, would give you a a 9 month season. And give everyone a 3 month break.
- Shield competition for 1st Round Championship losers in all grades. In line with previous suggestion, Championship season could still be played from late August onwards as it pretty much is now. But give every grade a Shield competition so everyone has something reasonable to aim for come end of the season. At the moment Shield competitions seem to be randomly organised for some leagues and not for others.
- Play games on weekends early in the year. I see plenty of matches late in the year on weekends. But back to the earlier point, I only ever see U13 football on weekends before the clocks go forward.
- Sit down and talk to the soccer league (God forbid!). Divide up weekends in the month or Saturdays / Sundays at least. If possible weekday evenings as well. I know there's plenty of other sports out there. But we all know soccer has the biggest crossover.
- I see lots of talk of the Development Squads. But bear in mind, at U14 & 15 their competitive season amounts to ONE SATURDAY at the end of August. (OK minors are different.) They do have training sessions the odd Wednesday and a couple of other blitzes during the summer that are well mapped out in advance. There's no way that this should be impacting on club games.
- Reduce all leagues to 13 a side. At least for July August.
- Players only play within their own age group. Country clubs would have to combine so that U17 teams have no U15s, etc. (I said think outside the box!) At least it would help in cases where you have 2 x U17 games + 3 x U15 games over a 2 week spell. With plenty of players playing both. Yes this does happen.
- Play football in the summer months. I've heard it promised countless times but never see it happen.

What do you think? Like I said these are just suggestions to help set the ball rolling....

brookville

Hard to believe we're less than two weeks away from the start of the championship.
Our lads wont need reminding how lucky we were this time last year and how a defeat in the first match can put us on the back foot straight away.
Im sure training will be ramped up hopefully no more fresh injuries.The word i heard about scruff is his waiting on results this week to determine how long his out for but he'll definitley miss a few matches anyway.Rob lennon gone for a few months,maher and delaney not able to run.Richie hogan its week to week while buckley is back running and probably the most likely to play soon.
This time last year we had 7 debutants against dublin we will probably have a few more this time.
On the team itself the biggest question marks will be over 3 and 6.Could he put joey at 3?His after having a great club campaign or will he throw in a rookie like lawlor?I think joey could do a job at 6 and id prefer to see deegan back in the corner.Fogarty and padraig will probably be on the half back line
i also wouldnt be suprised to see wally out around mf this year.

blackcard

brookville wrote: »

Hard to believe we're less than two weeks away from the start of the championship.
Our lads wont need reminding how lucky we were this time last year and how a defeat in the first match can put us on the back foot straight away.
Im sure training will be ramped up hopefully no more fresh injuries.The word i heard about scruff is his waiting on results this week to determine how long his out for but he'll definitley miss a few matches anyway.Rob lennon gone for a few months,maher and delaney not able to run.Richie hogan its week to week while buckley is back running and probably the most likely to play soon.
This time last year we had 7 debutants against dublin we will probably have a few more this time.
On the team itself the biggest question marks will be over 3 and 6.Could he put joey at 3?His after having a great club campaign or will he throw in a rookie like lawlor?I think joey could do a job at 6 and id prefer to see deegan back in the corner.Fogarty and padraig will probably be on the half back line
i also wouldnt be suprised to see wally out around mf this year.

I can never remember so much uncertainty regarding how a Kilkenny team is going to line out particularly from 1 to 9. It is going to be a season defining match. Lose and it is effectively year over.

brookville

Yea a huge match for sure and if we lose i doubt the round of clubs will go ahead.These injuries would test any panel but as you said no one knows the possible make up of the team.What we do know is we're going to have a new goalie.Thankfully we are lucky to have good back up.We have some good defenders like cleere,morrissey,darren mullen and tommy walsh who could all do a job its the two pivotal positions 3 and 6 that us supporters have concerns over.
We have an idea the way dublin will set up 3 big men on the half back line who love high ball and moran dropping back i just hope we have some kinda plan in place.Hopefully colin can continue his good club form and if left isolated inside he can do harm.

Village87

brookville wrote: »

Yea a huge match for sure and if we lose i doubt the round of clubs will go ahead.These injuries would test any panel but as you said no one knows the possible make up of the team.What we do know is we're going to have a new goalie.Thankfully we are lucky to have good back up.We have some good defenders like cleere,morrissey,darren mullen and tommy walsh who could all do a job its the two pivotal positions 3 and 6 that us supporters have concerns over.
We have an idea the way dublin will set up 3 big men on the half back line who love high ball and moran dropping back i just hope we have some kinda plan in place.Hopefully colin can continue his good club form and if left isolated inside he can do harm.

Club matches going ahead by all accounts. If they lose against Dublin better off playing the club matches as it gives lads a good chance to get in game time and impress

dzer2

Village87 wrote: »

Club matches going ahead by all accounts. If they lose against Dublin better off playing the club matches as it gives lads a good chance to get in game time and impress

Think they go the go ahead for the weekend they came in to camp after the first round and the weekend away last weekend if they confirmed the club matches would take place that week

Hawkeye6

Interesting piece in the Independent considering the recent discussion on fixtures.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/fai-player-development-plan-in-tatters-as-schoolboy-leagues-call-time-on-summer-football-38060158.html

Holidays, Facilities and referees all mentioned.

Is it the first sign of the elephant in the room.
Country clubs have a better chance of fielding their best team to coincide with the school/College year in the GAA too.

greenspurs

Hawkeye6 wrote: »

Interesting piece in the Independent considering the recent discussion on fixtures.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/fai-player-development-plan-in-tatters-as-schoolboy-leagues-call-time-on-summer-football-38060158.html

Holidays, Facilities and referees all mentioned.

Is it the first sign of the elephant in the room.
Country clubs have a better chance of fielding their best team to coincide with the school/College year in the GAA too.

I mentioned that in another thread about Summer soccer , and the effects its having on under age players in my club.

Hopefully, common sense (on both/all sides) will prevail.

brookville

Scruff gone for a month or 6 weeks thankfully no surgery hopefully he can get back for the galway game.Great opportunity for darren brennan

Joe Daly

Hopefully we will have two wins under our belt by the Galway game, big boots Darren Brennan is stepping into the best of luck to him the rest of the team for the season. See James Maher has the boot off his injury hopefully all these lads get back we will have a long summer supporting the black amber.

barneygumble99

Anyone know what the Kilkenny Black v Kilkenny Amber Celtic Challenge game taking place right now in Dunmore is??

dzer2

barneygumble99 wrote: »

Anyone know what the Kilkenny Black v Kilkenny Amber Celtic Challenge game taking place right now in Dunmore is??

Celtic challenge a b competition for minor

Comerman

barneygumble99 wrote: »

Anyone know what the Kilkenny Black v Kilkenny Amber Celtic Challenge game taking place right now in Dunmore is??

http://www.kilkennygaa.ie/fixtures?compID=124299
It's classed as a national competition afaik. Kilkenny Amber were basically the minor B and Kilkenny Black were the u16 squad, good match and some good looking players. I only know a couple of the players though (no programme available )

minty81

Kilkenny V Dublin not on RTE.. have Sky announced their games yet?

dzer2

minty81 wrote: »

Kilkenny V Dublin not on RTE.. have Sky announced their games yet?

It's on Sky announced a while back

Billy Ocean

minty81 wrote: »

Kilkenny V Dublin not on RTE.. have Sky announced their games yet?

It's on sky

brookville

Brian cody speaking friday at the launch of the leinster championship saying what we unfortunately knew that we are down scruff,maher,delaney,buckley,lennon and hogan.He wasn't making excuses and said he trusts the panel but infairness this is a lot of injuries and we will have a new goalie,full back and center back with little experience of playing together.
Richie got a bit of hurling in last weekend and buckley could be back after the cw match where hopefully a few more will be back but this match next Saturday is huge.
Dublin played cork recently Sutcliffe at 11 and rushe at 14.cork won by a few points but dublin going well and certainly won't fear us hopefully our lads will be ready.itll be a big ask for lawlor if selected at 3 so im afraid we might have to go for safety first and put padraig at 3 and maybe joey at 6 although he seems very keen on deegan at 6.
The only thing with so many lads out we're lucky to have the shamrocks lads that we hadn't during the year to nearly replace them 3 definite starters and maybe the 2 mullens or richie reid might get a chance but this is really going to test our panel and with the busy schedule the chances are more injuries will be picked up.

blackcard

Very, very disappointing performance by Kilkenny minors today despite beating Wx by 3-13 to 2-15. Wx were 5 points ahead when they had a player sent off for an off the ball incident after 20 minutes. Kilkenny forwards scored 4 points from play whilst it looked like Wx had 2 extra men. KK hadn't a clue how to manage Wx running play, we are totally being left behind in this aspect of hurling. Can't see KK going far based on today

conor05

I thought Wexford had better hurlers than us today but as mentioned above the sending off made a difference in the end.

Not to be too critical but it would be hard to see and all Ireland in this group.