Western Rail Corridor / Rail Trail

ezstreet5

Muckyboots wrote: »

Simply saying it as it is and calling for a review. It was Irish Rail that first muted the shutting down of the service, albeit as part of pay negotiations with unions. If it did close down the greenway advocates all along the route would be all over it like a rash. Que sera.

Riiiight. The threat of closing rail lines in 2017 was posturing by Irish Rail over a pay dispute with SIPTU. Cannon (as usual) shot off on his own tangent inferring that "a full review" on closure of Ennis to Athenry would be completed, and that this likely would lead to a decision to close the railway. And then, we could tear up the €106m railway rebuilt just a few years earlier and replace it with a dandy "no-CPO" greenway to save €2.8m per year.

Muckyboots

ezstreet5 wrote: »

Riiiight. The threat of closing rail lines in 2017 was posturing by Irish Rail over a pay dispute with SIPTU. Cannon (as usual) shot off on his own tangent inferring that "a full review" on closure of Ennis to Athenry would be completed, and that this likely would lead to a decision to close the railway. And then, we could tear up the €106m railway rebuilt just a few years earlier and replace it with a dandy "no-CPO" greenway to save €2.8m per year.

His preference is for a greenway. It's not a mortal sin.

westtip

ezstreet5 wrote: »

Fatigue and bemusement are the final arguments of the defeated.

Not defeated just not coming into the playground as often as usual.

donvito99

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

So, if you are not even in favour of rail in Dublin, where do you support it? Between London and Paris? Or anywhere?

I am completely in favour of the Metro, Dart Underground, Bus Connects, a Luas in Cork, BRT in Galway.... and so on.

That post you quote is in response to someone who contested that a Metro was required to deal with Dublin's traffic woes, my point was that given 70% of all commutes to the city are not in cars already that's not the case.

Nice try though.

Del.Monte

Greaney wrote: »

A lot of people can't use the motorway. They can't/don't drive!!. They may be young, broke, disabled, elderly, off the road. As I read this thread, it's obvious to me, a lot of folk here drive... and I suspect, drive to go cycling :rolleyes:

Furthermore, we really need to get cars off the road because when they're hit the towns they're heading to, many of them cannot move in the traffic, or cannot be stored parked anywhere. We're chocking with cars, in case you haven't noticed. They park on double yellow lines, cycle lanes, blocking driveways to private residents etc. We really really need to invest in our public transport.

A lot of people on this forum drive around the country photographing trains.

ezstreet5

Muckyboots wrote: »

His preference is for a greenway. It's not a mortal sin.

Suggesting that Ennis to Athenry should be closed and converted to a greenway is a mortal sin in my book. But we keep electing him. That's why I am advocating a "TD Scrappage Scheme," where after an election, a constituency can either opt to send their TD to the Dáil, or alternatively, the local authority can receive funding equivalent to the salary and expenses. I'd opt for the cash in lieu of all three of our TDs. At least we could get some footpaths repaired or a few more rubbish bins in the town.

serfboard

end of the road wrote: »

i would expect a substantial amount of [M18 traffic] will be single occupant cars, probably most.

Conveniently forgetting the fantastic public transport services, the X51 (Bus Eireann) and the 251 (Citylink) buses that travel on the motorway every single day, more frequently and faster than the train.

That also include stops at Shannon Airport (X51) and Cork Airport (251). And that bring students directly to and from Limerick University on Fridays and Sundays, and that pick up and drop off at GMIT every day.

end of the road

serfboard wrote: »

Conveniently forgetting the fantastic public transport services, the X51 (Bus Eireann) and the 251 (Citylink) buses that travel on the motorway every single day, more frequently and faster than the train.

That also include stops at Shannon Airport (X51) and Cork Airport (251). And that bring students directly to and from Limerick University on Fridays and Sundays, and that pick up and drop off at GMIT every day.

and?
i'm not forgetting them, however them being fantastic to those who use them which is fine, does not make them viable as the only transport option in the area.
both bus and rail seem to be viable along the corridor which is good, that is generally the case across the country where there are bus and rail services, and is why quite rightly we continue to have, and will continue to need rail.

Lord Glentoran

end of the road wrote: »

and?
i'm not forgetting them, however them being fantastic to those who use them which is fine, does not make them viable as the only transport option in the area.
both bus and rail seem to be viable along the corridor which is good, that is generally the case across the country where there are bus and rail services, and is why quite rightly we continue to have, and will continue to need rail.

I was in Galway last week - even more traffic jam-tasting than ever. Do the buses hover magically over the blocked junctions?

end of the road

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

I was in Galway last week - even more traffic jam-tasting than ever. Do the buses hover magically over the blocked junctions?

they don't, hence there is going to be need for rail expansion in and around galway, a mix of light and heavy rail.

Isambard

end of the road wrote: »

they don't, hence there is going to be need for rail expansion in and around galway, a mix of light and heavy rail.

yes, in Galway City, no in Galway sheep country.

ezstreet5

Isambard wrote: »

yes, in Galway City, no in Galway sheep country.

Thanks. Really.

ezstreet5

end of the road wrote: »

they don't, hence there is going to be need for rail expansion in and around galway, a mix of light and heavy rail.

I totally agree. Travel demand is highly variable. If you're 22 and coming out of a pub in Galway at 2:00 am, a bus to Athenry or Tuam may be your best bet. If you want to get from Galway to Dublin or Shannon airport, again, the bus service will be your best bet. However, if you want to get to/from Athenry, Tuam, Gort, Craughwell, or Oranmore to either Galway or Dublin during peak times, you would really need the train. If folk from Tuam, Athenry, Gort, Ennis, want to work in any other town, or even Ballinasloe or Athlone, you need a train. If you have an onward journey via bicycle or if you are disabled, you really need the train.

westtip

ezstreet5 wrote: »

I totally agree. Travel demand is highly variable. If you're 22 and coming out of a pub in Galway at 2:00 am,

You have probably spent the best part of €100 on a night out of frivolity, drinking cocktails, pints, wine and eating expensive crap food.

Get yourself a taxi if this is the lifestyle you want.

Investment in public transport for this lot spending their parents money, living at home rent free, and deciding that having a "great night out" that cannot even be recalled the next day because they are "wasted" is not the best way to spend tax payers money. Get a taxi or stay in a shop front door overnight.

River Suir

westtip wrote: »

You have probably spent the best part of €100 on a night out of frivolity, drinking cocktails, pints, wine and eating expensive crap food.

Get yourself a taxi if this is the lifestyle you want.

Investment in public transport for this lot spending their parents money, living at home rent free, and deciding that having a "great night out" that cannot even be recalled the next day because they are "wasted" is not the best way to spend tax payers money. Get a taxi or stay in a shop front door overnight.

time to rename the Greenway campaign the Killjoy movement...

Muckyboots

ezstreet5 wrote: »

I totally agree. Travel demand is highly variable. If you're 22 and coming out of a pub in Galway at 2:00 am, a bus to Athenry or Tuam may be your best bet. If you want to get from Galway to Dublin or Shannon airport, again, the bus service will be your best bet. However, if you want to get to/from Athenry, Tuam, Gort, Craughwell, or Oranmore to either Galway or Dublin during peak times, you would really need the train. If folk from Tuam, Athenry, Gort, Ennis, want to work in any other town, or even Ballinasloe or Athlone, you need a train. If you have an onward journey via bicycle or if you are disabled, you really need the train.

Nothing in your quality street selection box for me? I just wanted a safe family friendly cycling option to anywhere

Greaney

Muckyboots wrote: »

Nothing in your quality street selection box for me? I just wanted a safe family friendly cycling option to anywhere

Gort & Athenry towns have groups that set up to develop cycle trails around their towns. It's a really good way of 'building capacity' as a cycling advocacy group that local government etc. will refer to and include in cycling strategy. I'm being very sincere when I say you should explore this option.

Greaney

Greaney wrote: »

Gort & Athenry towns have groups that set up to develop cycle trails around their towns. It's a really good way of 'building capacity' as a cycling advocacy group that local government etc. will refer to and include in cycling strategy. I'm being very sincere when I say you should explore this option.

Defeats the purpose when the Athenry one is an anti-greenway group. Its one of the main reasons why there is a new advocacy group being formed there

Greaney

Deleted User wrote: »

Defeats the purpose when the Athenry one is an anti-greenway group. Its one of the main reasons why there is a new advocacy group being formed there

If the purpose is to advocate for cycling with the family (among things), it doesn't defeat it at all, but I can see that the purpose of what you describe is a green way, on the route of the Western Rail Corridor. Them's pretty narrow parameters

If in any community group one has to agree with everything every other member in the group believes ... in my experience, the level of conflict could be too much for the collective survive.

Greaney

Greaney wrote: »

If the purpose is to advocate for cycling with the family (among things), it doesn't defeat it at all, but I can see that the purpose of what you describe is a green way, on the route of the Western Rail Corridor. Them's pretty narrow parameters

If in any community group one has to agree with everything every other member in the group believes ... in my experience, the level of conflict could be too much for the collective survive.

Don't know what to tell you except that single person advocacy groups cannot be called a group. The existing one in Athenry operates under a veil of secrecy with no meetings and no communication beyond a Facebook page and no way for other members of the community to have their voice heard.

If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong but just sharing some of the reasons why another group is being formed.

Also, the greenway is not the only reason. Athenry is a farce for pedestrians and cyclists

Greaney

Deleted User wrote: »

Don't know what to tell you except that single person advocacy groups cannot be called a group. The existing one in Athenry operates under a veil of secrecy with no meetings and no communication beyond a Facebook page and no way for other members of the community to have their voice heard.

If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong but just sharing some of the reasons why another group is being formed.

Also, the greenway is not the only reason. Athenry is a farce for pedestrians and cyclists

Won't argue with you regarding Athenrys pedestrian & cycling infra...

As for the other claims, it won't be the first time I've heard that leveled at local groups, whether true or not. :rolleyes:

end of the road

Isambard wrote: »

yes, in Galway City, no in Galway sheep country.

just as well that isn't what we are looking for then.
in and around galway city means just that, galway and suburban towns surrounding it that could be grown and enhanced with the adding of rail.

westtip wrote: »

You have probably spent the best part of €100 on a night out of frivolity, drinking cocktails, pints, wine and eating expensive crap food.

Get yourself a taxi if this is the lifestyle you want.

Investment in public transport for this lot spending their parents money, living at home rent free, and deciding that having a "great night out" that cannot even be recalled the next day because they are "wasted" is not the best way to spend tax payers money. Get a taxi or stay in a shop front door overnight.

public transport investment is for all potential users of public transport where that investment is being implemented, not just the ones you like or believe deserve it, and quite rightly so.
we were all young once.

devnull

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serfboard

ezstreet5 wrote: »

If you're 22 and coming out of a pub in Galway at 2:00 am, a bus to Athenry or Tuam may be your best bet.

There is no late night bus service to Tuam. And if you want a late night service to Athenry, a bus is your only bet.

ezstreet5 wrote: »

If you want to get from Galway to Dublin or Shannon airport, again, the bus service will be your best bet.

Correct.

ezstreet5 wrote: »

However, if you want to get to/from Athenry, Tuam, Gort, Craughwell, or Oranmore to either Galway or Dublin during peak times, you would really need the train.

This works - but only for journeys to the City Centre. If you work in Galway, you are more likely to work in Parkmore/Ballybrit/Mervue, and the train is no good to you. If you work in any of the hospitals on the east of the city (Galway Clinic, Merlin Park and the Bons), the train is no good. If you study in GMIT, the train is no good. And so on.

ezstreet5 wrote: »

If folk from Tuam, Athenry, Gort, Ennis, want to work in any other town, or even Ballinasloe or Athlone, you need a train.

Any other town? How about if I live in Athenry and work in Loughrea? Should we be building a train line for that?

If I lived in Athenry and worked in Ballinasloe or Athlone, the train would be handy. But that would be on a line that is already built. We are not going to build train infrastructure for the very small number of inter-town passengers.

For instance, the three people a day who use the train from Ardrahan are presumably happy to use that service. Should we have spent all the money on the train station that we did, just for those three people?

ezstreet5 wrote: »

If you have an onward journey via bicycle or if you are disabled, you really need the train.

For sure, trains are better for disabled people. How do you get to the train station from rural County Galway, though? If you drive, then you are most likely to drive to Oranmore P&R and get the train from there - without any additional infrastructure needing to be built.

Muckyboots

Greaney wrote: »

Gort & Athenry towns have groups that set up to develop cycle trails around their towns. It's a really good way of 'building capacity' as a cycling advocacy group that local government etc. will refer to and include in cycling strategy. I'm being very sincere when I say you should explore this option.

Any campaign that's trying to develop "family-friendly" trails around a town will have to pursue so on an "off-road" principle. There is a long disused rail line running through the heart of the town, offering links to existing greenways and paths to create a loop. As long as it is disused it's going to be the centre of a cycling campaign in Tuam.

Greaney

serfboard wrote: »

For sure, trains are better for disabled people. How do you get to the train station from rural County Galway, though? If you drive, then you are most likely to drive to Oranmore P&R and get the train from there (the train station etc.) - without any additional infrastructure needing to be built.

Well, Athenry was chosen by the Brothers of Charity when they were re-housing folk in the community from Kilcornan. It was a good choice due to infrastructure, so they can walk. There was already an educational center for young adults/teens with intellectual disabilities, and now they've added a day care center. I know parents are looking to find their adult children with ID accommodation in the town because they can live independently there.

Other physically disabled folk travel small distances wheelchair/mobility scooter. You'll see them at the station traveling independently. The local Authority estates (which have some specially designed houses) are all close to the station, which in turn is beside the church/school/shops etc.
Just like able bodied folk who live further out of town family member can pick one up or drop one off to the station.


Athenry, Tuam, Ardrahan, Gort etc. don't have their stations miles away. I'm assuming because the older stations were built before the advent of the car. Alas, this is unlike Oranmore, which was clearly designed around the car. People make choices about where they'd like to live because it'll make their life easier to be near this kind of infrastructure etc. as the Brothers of Charity did so that a car may not be needed at all.

Greaney

Muckyboots wrote: »

Any campaign that's trying to develop "family-friendly" trails around a town will have to pursue so on an "off-road" principle. There is a long disused rail line running through the heart of the town, offering links to existing greenways and paths to create a loop. As long as it is disused it's going to be the centre of a cycling campaign in Tuam.

It's always good to have a 'plan b'. If the WRC is brought back into use, you don't want that to be the end of the group. Most folk are happy with *side by side but the timeline on that might be slow. Some Galway City cycling campaigners are looking at old boreens, so too are Gort/Athenry. Some groups are exploring the options regarding opening up rights of way on private land in partnership with the owners...

It's good to have options, *if you have some of that type of homework done, you'll have 'form' so if they want a cycling group to have a seat at the table....

serfboard wrote: »

Any other town? How about if I live in Athenry and work in Loughrea? Should we be building a train line for that?

Once upon a time you could. There was a spur down to Loughrea. You can still see the remains of the station by the mart. Very central to the town it was too. Sadly, they built a road on the old line, linking it to the motorway.

serfboard

Greaney wrote: »

Well, Athenry was chosen by the Brothers of Charity when they were re-housing folk in the community from Kilcornan. It was a good choice due to infrastructure, so they can walk. There was already an educational center for young adults/teens with intellectual disabilities, and now they've added a day care center. I know parents are looking to find their adult children with ID accommodation in the town because they can live independently there.

Other physically disabled folk travel small distances wheelchair/mobility scooter. You'll see them at the station traveling independently. The local Authority estates (which have some specially designed houses) are all close to the station, which in turn is beside the church/school/shops etc.
Just like able bodied folk who live further out of town family member can pick one up or drop one off to the station.

Athenry, Tuam, Ardrahan, Gort etc. don't have their stations miles away. I'm assuming because the older stations were built before the advent of the car. Alas, this is unlike Oranmore, which was clearly designed around the car. People make choices about where they'd like to live because it'll make their life easier to be near this kind of infrastructure etc. as the Brothers of Charity did so that a car may not be needed at all.

All of this is sensible, but unfortunately you're talking about Ireland, and Galway in particular, where planning is appalling - houses are scattered about the countryside like confetti, and industrial areas are built far away from train lines. For the rural folk who work in Galway City Centre, Oranmore P&R is the solution. For those who work in the Industrial estates, it's bus or drive, and a train line being built to Tuam will not help in the slightest.

The number of people who need mobility scooters is not enough to justify spending tens of millions of euro building a line between Athenry and Tuam/Claremorris, particularly when there are more pressing rail needs.

serfboard

serfboard wrote: »

Any other town? How about if I live in Athenry and work in Loughrea? Should we be building a train line for that?

Greaney wrote: »

Once upon a time you could. There was a spur down to Loughrea. You can still see the remains of the station by the mart. Very central to the town it was too. Sadly, they built a road on the old line, linking it to the motorway.

Indeed. So, should they re-build that line too?

Greaney

serfboard wrote: »

Indeed. So, should they re-build that line too?

That would need CPO's. Restoring the WRC would not need that (so much) which is the reason many give for building the green way on that land.

serfboard wrote: »

All of this is sensible, but unfortunately you're talking about Ireland, and Galway in particular, where planning is appalling - houses are scattered about the countryside like confetti, and industrial areas are built far away from train lines. For the rural folk who work in Galway City Centre, Oranmore P&R is the solution. For those who work in the Industrial estates, it's bus or drive, and a train line being built to Tuam will not help in the slightest.

The number of people who need mobility scooters is not enough to justify spending tens of millions of euro building a line between Athenry and Tuam/Claremorris, particularly when there are more pressing rail needs.

According to the last census, 50% of the county work in the City. The top three commuter towns in Galway in order are Oranmore, Tuam & Athenry. They're the top three that 'live' in those towns and work in the city. Rail is not the only option but adds to the 'load' that needs to travel on these routes. (I'll assume you've read the earlier posts about the over 50 buses between Tuam & Galway every day)

The WRC is not just about Galway (although, that's where I live so I reference the county) but also links Limerick, Clare, Galway Mayo & Sligo. These are also major education centers. We are neglecting the planning of the West of Ireland well into the future.

We could argue on about how private companies only work profitable routes and won't serve the WRC areas. We could argue about it being considered an extremely cost effective compared to Motorway, which stops miles outside each of those towns. I could also point out that many rail & cycle to the suburbs of the city.... but you've made up your mind. All I know is, the use of the service has been severely downplayed by those who want a green way, and the demand for housing in those towns is not being met (hundreds of un-built, planned houses in Athenry, as for Ardrahan, plans stalled)

We need to plan for the future and join the dots....