Western Rail Corridor / Rail Trail Discussion

intellectual dosser

A TD who 18 months ago called for children to be systemically weighed has been given a role at the Department of Children.

Train tracks or greenway or neither - this could get interesting!

eastwest

Pete2k wrote: »

The same Anne Rabitte who was convinced last week that she was going to be a senior minister and now has had to accept a consolation junior role... ya I've no doubt she'll be really influential! Just as much as Cannon was the last 3 yrs I'd say.

Still, she'll be lot more influential than former job-sharing Junior Minister Sean Canney, who now faces five years in the political wilderness.

intellectual dosser

intellectual dosser wrote: »

Train tracks or greenway or neither - this could get interesting!

Aye, though I think all would agree, neither would be would a travesty i.e. letting the asset sit and rot

Lord Glentoran

eastwest wrote: »

Still, she'll be lot more influential than former job-sharing Junior Minister Sean Canney, who now faces five years in the political wilderness.

West-on-crack will be bereft, but at least they’ll always have their dodgy photographs.

westtip

Pete2k wrote: »

The same Anne Rabitte who was convinced last week that she was going to be a senior minister and now has had to accept a consolation junior role... ya I've no doubt she'll be really influential! Just as much as Cannon was the last 3 yrs I'd say.

CC couldn't get past the undue influence Canney had on Lord Ross, the fact Canney had to be kept sweet to keep the administration hanging on by a thread, the last government was weak due to numbers.

BTW I sat in meetings with the NWRA planners with Ciaran and he was very influential to get the Greenway aspects packed into the RSES, he also came with me to give his views to the independent EY consultants when we both met and presented to them, his influence at that meeting will I am sure be reflected in the report EY come up with. Ciaran Cannon influenced 3000 people to march on the streets of Tuam he has given leadership to this campaign and has had a great deal of influence on the overall outcome of what is going to happen on this route. He did a great job.

We now have a strong government in terms of arithmetic not beholding to the like of Canney. As others have said we have a Green minister who will consider the greenway option. Ciaran Cannon was the victim of maths and gender he still represents the constituency as does Anne Rabbitte and they will both openly canvass for the greenway. Up north in Sligo Frankie Feighan is a huge supporter of the greenway, as are Marc Macsharry, and Marian Harkin. Ring gone off the scene, Canney off the scene, even anti greenway TD in Mayo Lisa Chambers is out of harms way in he Seanad we have also see the back of Lord Ross, Western Rail Corridor not mentioned in Green Manifesto, whole thing reliant on independent report which none of us have seen, Green Minister who wants a national Greenway network as his legacy. I would say those of who support the greenway are a lot happier about the current situation, CC is a loss as a minister but just think, Ring gone from ministerial role, Canney gone from the same, Chambers gone to the Seanad, Ross gone

All in all I think things have changed for the better......

ezstreet5

westtip wrote: »

CC couldn't get past the undue influence Canney had on Lord Ross, the fact Canney had to be kept sweet to keep the administration hanging on by a thread, the last government was weak due to numbers.

BTW I sat in meetings with the NWRA planners with Ciaran and he was very influential to get the Greenway aspects packed into the RSES, he also came with me to give his views to the independent EY consultants when we both met and presented to them, his influence at that meeting will I am sure be reflected in the report EY come up with. Ciaran Cannon influenced 3000 people to march on the streets of Tuam he has given leadership to this campaign and has had a great deal of influence on the overall outcome of what is going to happen on this route. He did a great job.

We now have a strong government in terms of arithmetic not beholding to the like of Canney. As others have said we have a Green minister who will consider the greenway option. Ciaran Cannon was the victim of maths and gender he still represents the constituency as does Anne Rabbitte and they will both openly canvass for the greenway. Up north in Sligo Frankie Feighan is a huge supporter of the greenway, as are Marc Macsharry, and Marian Harkin. Ring gone off the scene, Canney off the scene, even anti greenway TD in Mayo Lisa Chambers is out of harms way in he Seanad we have also see the back of Lord Ross, Western Rail Corridor not mentioned in Green Manifesto, whole thing reliant on independent report which none of us have seen, Green Minister who wants a national Greenway network as his legacy. I would say those of who support the greenway are a lot happier about the current situation, CC is a loss as a minister but just think, Ring gone from ministerial role, Canney gone from the same, Chambers gone to the Seanad, Ross gone

All in all I think things have changed for the better......

There is an overfocus here, and undue weight placed on the views of men (and women) in politics. This is a common error repeatedly made by earnest folk in the West (election after election). Overall, recent policy and politics would slightly nudge the issue towards rail reactivation. But ever so slightly. Don't read eras into minor political maneuvers.

Muckyboots

ezstreet5 wrote: »

There is an overfocus here, and undue weight placed on the views of men (and women) in politics. This is a common error repeatedly made by earnest folk in the West (election after election). Overall, recent policy and politics would slightly nudge the issue towards rail reactivation. But ever so slightly. Don't read eras into minor political maneuvers.

I wouldn't be so dismissive of change. Phase 1 (trains) was built during a short era of mindless spending and false starts, but wouldn't pretend to know what Minister Eamon Ryan will read from the report. Ring (still a government TD) and Canney will continue to be influential with a swath of quangos reflecting their "ethos" continuing to drive regional policy. The sky has changed but the forecast is still the same, unfortunately.

ezstreet5

Muckyboots wrote: »

I wouldn't be so dismissive of change. Phase 1 (trains) was built during a short era of mindless spending and false starts, but wouldn't pretend to know what Minister Eamon Ryan will read from the report. Ring (still a government TD) and Canney will continue to be influential with a swath of quangos reflecting their "ethos" continuing to drive regional policy. The sky has changed but the forecast is still the same, unfortunately.

Eamon Ryan introduced a motion to the Dáil in April 2019 to reactivate the railway, stating:

The following motion was moved by Deputy Eamon Ryan on Wednesday, 17 April 2019:

That Dáil Éireann:

notes that:
[...]
— vitally important public transport projects such as the Western Rail Corridor, the Dublin-Navan railway line and the Dublin Area Rapid Transit (DART) Interconnector, which a decade ago were close to being implemented, were stopped by the Government;
[...]
and calls on the Government to:
[...]
— completion of the restoration of the Western Rail Corridor;

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/2019-04-18/25/

Reading further in the debate, you can see the recurring kneejerk reaction of some politicians that the WRC is and always will be a colossal waste of money and should be shut down on the basis of the 2011 "Ghost Train" episode of Prime Time.

Muckyboots

ezstreet5 wrote: »

Eamon Ryan introduced a motion to the Dáil in April 2019 to reactivate the railway, stating:

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/2019-04-18/25/

Reading further in the debate, you can see the recurring kneejerk reaction of some politicians that the WRC is and always will be a colossal waste of money and should be shut down on the basis of the 2011 "Ghost Train" episode of Prime Time.

Can't disagree with you. It's very much a roll of the dice moment. The tasks and terms of the Feasibility Study are overwhelmingly weighted in favour of a positive report for rail. I just hope that Eamon Ryan is above kicking the can.

westtip

ezstreet5 wrote: »

Eamon Ryan introduced a motion to the Dáil in April 2019 to reactivate the railway, stating:

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/2019-04-18/25/

Reading further in the debate, you can see the recurring kneejerk reaction of some politicians that the WRC is and always will be a colossal waste of money and should be shut down on the basis of the 2011 "Ghost Train" episode of Prime Time.

The Eamon Ryan quote interesting, however how does that weigh up with the fact that despite naming several key rail projects in the GP Manifesto 2020 and the last one in 2017 why didn't they list the WRC as must have rail project, they didn't it was conspicuous by its absence.....grandstanding at a committee and actually being able to do something as a minister are two entirely different political situations.

We shall indeed see what unfolds, thankfully I don't think it will be more of the same.

ezstreet5

westtip wrote: »

The Eamon Ryan quote interesting, however how does that weigh up with the fact that despite naming several key rail projects in the GP Manifesto 2020 and the last one in 2017 why didn't they list the WRC as must have rail project.....grandstanding at a committee and actually being able to do something as a minister are two entirely different political situations.

We shall indeed see what unfolds, thankfully I don't think it will be more of the same.

It's listed in their Transport Policy dated 30th April 2020.

https://www.greenparty.ie/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Transport-Policy.pdf

Muckyboots

ezstreet5 wrote: »

It's listed in their Transport Policy dated 30th April 2020.

https://www.greenparty.ie/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Transport-Policy.pdf

Yes, that's fairly emphatic all right. It was the Greens that, unsuccessfully, opposed the Midleton-Youghal greenway in Cork Co Co in favour of two-bit rail service. All to play for..

westtip

ezstreet5 wrote: »

It's listed in their Transport Policy dated 30th April 2020.

https://www.greenparty.ie/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Transport-Policy.pdf

What is actually a lot more relevant is what is listed in the PFG. Which effectively says: Lets look at the report and act on it accordingly.

The PFG takes precedent over any party policy. ER is not going to get cabinet approval for the WRC and it is not a red line issue for the GP. As I said let's see what unfolds.

Don't forget their Transport policy also stated "The Green Party will promote greenway (including along disused railways) projects...." so they can go either way depending on what the review says while still following their own policy document and the PFG.

serfboard

Pete2k wrote: »

So the services of the self proclaimed 'Greenway Champion' Cannon are no longer required in government and he has essentially been demoted. Good to know his opinions were never considered important which is quite evident given he wasnt even offered a junior role this time.

So the services of the self proclaimed 'Railway Champion' Canney are no longer required in government and he has essentially been demoted. Good to know his opinions were never considered important which is quite evident given he wasnt even offered a junior role this time.

ezstreet5

Deleted User wrote: »

Don't forget their Transport policy also stated "The Green Party will promote greenway (including along disused railways) projects...." so they can go either way depending on what the review says while still following their own policy document and the PFG.

I agree with DaCor that this could still go either way, or no way at all. And that's why I find Ciarán Cannon's blitz of press releases to the local media disturbing. The Quiet Man Greenway was not "given the go ahead" or a "green light." It is not "a certainty." Local authorities are not "obliged to deliver it." And there was no "groundbreaking" or "historical event" that I can see.

Thankfully, only This is Galway and stickybottle.com were lazy enough to print his spam verbatim. This is not the first time that Cannon has promised his constituents what he believed they wanted that he could not deliver. And people are catching on, and party minders are observing too.

Muckyboots

ezstreet5 wrote: »

I agree with DaCor that this could still go either way, or no way at all. And that's why I find Ciarán Cannon's blitz of press releases to the local media disturbing. The Quiet Man Greenway was not "given the go ahead" or a "green light." It is not "a certainty." Local authorities are not "obliged to deliver it." And there was no "groundbreaking" or "historical event" that I can see.

Thankfully, only This is Galway and stickybottle.com were lazy enough to print his spam verbatim. This is not the first time that Cannon has promised his constituents what he believed they wanted that he could not deliver. And people are catching on, and party minders are observing too.

Ah here, we're 50 years listening to baseless blah about trains. Only recently SF & WOT blasted about Matt McCarthy getting a Ten-T motion passed at EU Parliament with the full knowledge that actual decisions are made at EU Council. Ciaran Cannon is building massive support for the Greenway and his opponents don't like it - because it works.

River Suir

Muckyboots wrote: »

Ah here, we're 50 years listening to baseless blah about trains. Only recently SF & WOT blasted about Matt McCarthy getting a Ten-T motion passed at EU Parliament with the full knowledge that actual decisions are made at EU Council. Ciaran Cannon is building massive support for the Greenway and his opponents don't like it - because it works.

What Cannon won't tell you is that any "greenway" will now not be built on the railway itself. It's widely accepted that the railway will not be sacrificed. And you can thank West-on-Crack for that. (The facebook spoof with the cross dressers to be clear).

ezstreet5

Muckyboots wrote: »

Ah here, we're 50 years listening to baseless blah about trains. Only recently SF & WOT blasted about Matt McCarthy getting a Ten-T motion passed at EU Parliament with the full knowledge that actual decisions are made at EU Council. Ciaran Cannon is building massive support for the Greenway and his opponents don't like it - because it works.

It is Ciarán Cannon's statements that are baseless. He might be able to convince the Marys and Bridies of Tuam that a train will not return to their town "in his lifetime," and therefore a greenway is the only lucrative option for them, but he shouldn't say that. It's hyperbole, especially since it is entirely possible that rail service will indeed be restored. Whether it's Ten-T funding applied for in 2021, or Urban Regeneration and Development Fund under Project Ireland 2040, or perhaps under the European Green Deal’s Just Transition Mechanism and the Sustainable Europe Investment Plan (awful name). It may become a reality.

Muckyboots

River Suir wrote: »

What Cannon won't tell you is that any "greenway" will now not be built on the railway itself. It's widely accepted that the railway will not be sacrificed. And you can thank West-on-Crack for that. (The facebook spoof with the cross dressers to be clear).

I'll let someone else address that FB page. I and many others have made our abhorrence of it known.

Muckyboots

ezstreet5 wrote: »

It is Ciarán Cannon's statements that are baseless. He might be able to convince the Marys and Bridies of Tuam that a train will not return to their town "in his lifetime," and therefore a greenway is the only lucrative option for them, but he shouldn't say that. It's hyperbole, especially since it is entirely possible that rail service will indeed be restored. Whether it's Ten-T funding applied for in 2021, or Urban Regeneration and Development Fund under Project Ireland 2040, or perhaps under the European Green Deal’s Just Transition Mechanism and the Sustainable Europe Investment Plan (awful name). It may become a reality.

"Entirely possible" doesn't wash anymore but shocking as this may seem there is a sizable amount of people in Tuam, especially within the business community, who would see a greenway as a preferred option over a railway. The allure of "wheels on steel" is not as strong as you think. Rail might be nice, but it's not the be all. Health is the be all.

ezstreet5

Muckyboots wrote: »

"Entirely possible" doesn't wash anymore but shocking as this may seem there is a sizable amount of people in Tuam, especially within the business community, who would see a greenway as a preferred option over a railway. The allure of "wheels on steel" is not as strong as you think. Rail might be nice, but it's not the be all. Health is the be all.

When you show up at a business with a corriboard poster that says, "I'm a Greenway Champion," of course they will stand for a photo. You are essentially asking them, "Do you support something good for Tuam?" The question that should be asked is whether you would support something good at the expense of something that might be better.

What will likely be the death of the WRC will be, surprisingly, a completely different greenway entirely.

Once the Galway - Dublin greenway route is fully open, Galwegians, Councillors and TD's will all be clamoring for more.

This has happened in every single county so far. I see no reason why it wouldn't be on the cards for TQMG

ezstreet5

Deleted User wrote: »

What will likely be the death of the WRC will be, surprisingly, a completely different greenway entirely.

Once the Galway - Dublin greenway route is fully open, Galwegians, Councillors and TD's will all be clamoring for more.

This has happened in every single county so far. I see no reason why it wouldn't be on the cards for TQMG

Maybe, but our "Greenway Champion" Deputy Cannon projects a deafening silence for that government-supported greenway after calling for its cancellation. Politically, he can't support it even though it is the first, and most likely to be built. Where is his support for that one, which as you note, enables a WRC greenway? Entirely missing, and noted.

Pete2k

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What will likely be the death of the WRC will be, surprisingly, a completely different greenway entirely.

Once the Galway - Dublin greenway route is fully open, Galwegians, Councillors and TD's will all be clamoring for more.

This has happened in every single county so far. I see no reason why it wouldn't be on the cards for TQMG

The same dublin galway greenway that Cannon supports whole heartedly? Oh thats right hes afraid of upsetting a few farmers and getting bad press in the farmers journal so he refuses to even mention it let alone support it but given the wrc is owned by irish rail and no farmers will be upset its ok to support that and make up false press releases saying this greenway is defo going ahead that he thinks will get him good press.

ezstreet5

Pete2k wrote: »

The same dublin galway greenway that Cannon supports whole heartedly? Oh thats right hes afraid of upsetting a few farmers and getting bad press in the farmers journal so he refuses to even mention it let alone support it but given the wrc is owned by irish rail and no farmers will be upset its ok to support that and make up false press releases saying this greenway is defo going ahead that he thinks will get him good press.

I think that's the basic premise. If you support either the Athlone to Galway Greenway, or even a connecting Athenry to Tuam Greenway, Ciarán Cannon is junk. Don't support him because he doesn't' support you. Only himself.

Im looking forward to going for a spin on that one when it opens. Hmm, might actually head over to Athlone next week for a spin up to Mullingar

ezstreet5

Deleted User wrote: »

Im looking forward to going for a spin on that one when it opens. Hmm, might actually head over to Athlone next week for a spin up to Mullingar

That might be your best bet.

Lord Glentoran

Muckyboots wrote: »

I'll let someone else address that FB page. I and many others have made our abhorrence of it known.

It’s remarkable how the tactics of some of the most vocal supporters of the greenway option have managed to probably torpedo the very thing that they ridiculed all and sundry to get. As a political campaign it was about the most hamfisted one I have ever encountered. It was like a team thinking that they were playing senior hurling and instead were really playing under sevens rounders with Three Stooges style tactics.

Pete_Cavan

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What will likely be the death of the WRC will be, surprisingly, a completely different greenway entirely.

Once the Galway - Dublin greenway route is fully open, Galwegians, Councillors and TD's will all be clamoring for more.

This has happened in every single county so far. I see no reason why it wouldn't be on the cards for TQMG

Yes. By the end of the decade, we will likely see the northern section of the WRC in Sligo converted to greenway (the alignment is no use as a railway as it was narrow gauge), good progress on Athlone - Galway if not completed, a greenway from Galway out to Clifden, in addition to further developments on the GWG. Sitting in the middle of it all will be an abandoned railway which could link the whole lot together but instead continues to rot and be encroached upon for another decade after while other towns in the region reap the benefits of greenway.