Western Rail Corridor / Rail Trail

westtip

JJJackal wrote: »

Common sense would suggest not building a greenway beside active rail lines unless you are 100% sure there will be no risk to those using the greenway.

Realistically I would not be happy with a greenway beside a train line if there was less than a 1 in 100,000 chance of injury to a person using the greenway due to a train accident or incident

This really gets more hilarious by the minute, based on your 1 in 100,000 chance of injury you would have to have a crash barrier put in place on every pavement in the country that runs alongside a road. If you can provide an actuarial figure of liklihood to back up your thinking, then I suggest you remain unhappy with the idea. By the way there is a path alongside the Dart I think around Sandycove area how many people have leapt onto the Dartline there........Errr none so far.

ShaneC1600

westtip wrote: »

This really gets more hilarious by the minute, based on your 1 in 100,000 chance of injury you would have to have a crash barrier put in place on every pavement in the country that runs alongside a road. If you can provide an actuarial figure of liklihood to back up your thinking, then I suggest you remain unhappy with the idea. By the way there is a path alongside the Dart I think around Sandycove area how many people have leapt onto the Dartline there........Errr none so far.

There is a walkway along Lough Atalia, Renmore to Galway station too, I wouldn't drive to Galway for a walk along it though! And there is a palisade fence along the full length too, i don't know why they put the fence along it, must be something to do with trains.

end of the road

Deleted User wrote: »

As for the WRC, well, it hasn't been active line since 1976 so it's a non issue.

it was active up until the late 90s.

Del.Monte

CIE love any excuse to whack up a palisade fence and a greenway fenced off by one would hardly be a pleasant experience, but there's nowt queer as folk.

Lord Glentoran

ShaneC1600 wrote: »

[Deleted User] wrote: »

How has everyone suddenly lost the ability to quote properly on this thread?

On topic, a greenway beside an active rail line is not an issue and done all over the world

Interested, where is there a greenway along an operational railway? Any idea of train speeds and type of fencing?
Sorry if its me not quoting correctly, I'm new to boards

25mph train speed limits on the Avon valley Heritage railway. Clearly that’s what cycling campaigners want on any operational railway beside a Greenway.https://www.avonvalleyrailway.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/RISK-ASSESSMENT-2016.pdf

Lord Glentoran

Muckyboots wrote: »

Sligo eye wrote: »

Matt Carthy is a SF MEP who lobby's for WOT in Europe. That's a fact is it not?

The same logic would suggest that Matt Carthy is a male, therefore all males are Sinn Féiners.

westtip

ShaneC1600 wrote: »

There is a walkway along Lough Atalia, Renmore to Galway station too, I wouldn't drive to Galway for a walk along it though! And there is a palisade fence along the full length too, i don't know why they put the fence along it, must be something to do with trains.

Nobody is asking anyone to drive a long way to use any greenway, there are two priorities in the campaign for the Greenway on the closed railway from Athenry to Collooney on the route of the closed railway.

1. Provide a local amenity for the communities along the route, so they don't have to drive anywhere to use a greenway, whether its parallel to an existing railway or on the route of a closed for 40 years railway
2. To be part of the national greenway network so that tourists can take long distance cycling trips and happen to pass through places like Tuam, Claremorris etc and bring trade to those communities - people need to eat sleep and drink.

Re the palisade fence for a greenway alongside an existing route, my guess is here in Ireland this is the kind of thing that would happen, as said in previous posts totally unnecessary, totally over the top, totally ugly and doesn't happen elsewhere, people would still use it though and it might be the solution needed to complete the Dublin Galway greenway. The reason I say it would not be necessary is strangely I trust people to be able to walk on a footpath without stepping out in front of a truck, so no reason why I wouldn't apply the same thinking to people walking alongside a railway, but hey ho each to their own. On we go choo choo.

westtip

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

ShaneC1600 wrote: »

25mph train speed limits on the Avon valley Heritage railway. Clearly that’s what cycling campaigners want on any operational railway beside a Greenway.https://www.avonvalleyrailway.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/RISK-ASSESSMENT-2016.pdf

could folks please look at this photo attached and do a risk assessment, I mean what are those people thinking of placing themselves in peril and danger with only so much as a flimsy wire fence to protect them from imminent calamity; And this clearly is not the Avon Valley Heritage Railway, people call me Anti railway, I am not by the way but maybe we now have the anti greenway parallel to a railway faction! one thing I will say if they had done this alongside the Ennis/Athenry line it would have had more users than the railway! and it would have encouraged people to cycle one way and train it back the other, hey ho on we we go choo choo cyling by the railway 1.jpg

trellheim

close enough here in Dun Laoghaire https://www.google.com/maps/@53.2957362,-6.1464219,3a,75y,50.75h,72.67t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sizLVa2_IDHOp_VJXnc8cnw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

ShaneC1600

westtip wrote: »

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

could folks please look at this photo attached and do a risk assessment, I mean what are those people thinking of placing themselves in peril and danger with only so much as a flimsy wire fence to protect them from imminent calamity; And this clearly is not the Avon Valley Heritage Railway, people call me Anti railway, I am not by the way but maybe we now have the anti greenway parallel to a railway faction! one thing I will say if they had done this alongside the Ennis/Athenry line it would have had more users than the railway! and it would have encouraged people to cycle one way and train it back the other, hey ho on we we go choo choo cyling by the railway 1.jpg

In fairness a 4ft or 5ft chain link fence like that isn't the worst!

yer man!

ShaneC1600 wrote: »

[Deleted User] wrote: »

How has everyone suddenly lost the ability to quote properly on this thread?

On topic, a greenway beside an active rail line is not an issue and done all over the world

Interested, where is there a greenway along an operational railway? Any idea of train speeds and type of fencing?
Sorry if its me not quoting correctly, I'm new to boards

There's a greenway I use here in Leiden, The Netherlands that runs along the main railway into Amsterdam. Trains travel up to 140km/h on this particular section and there's a train every 3 minutes. It's not an issue at all, there's a decent wire fence separating the line from the greenway. It's about 10ft tall. It honestly feels very safe, it's just really nice not to be next to cars and buses!

ShaneC1600

westtip wrote: »

Nobody is asking anyone to drive a long way to use any greenway, there are two priorities in the campaign for the Greenway on the closed railway from Athenry to Collooney on the route of the closed railway.

1. Provide a local amenity for the communities along the route, so they don't have to drive anywhere to use a greenway, whether its parallel to an existing railway or on the route of a closed for 40 years railway
2. To be part of the national greenway network so that tourists can take long distance cycling trips and happen to pass through places like Tuam, Claremorris etc and bring trade to those communities - people need to eat sleep and drink.

I have cycled the westport greenway and its excellent. The benefits for the area are clear to see and I'm sure with the population of both Tuam and Athenry the greenway would be well used but alot of emphasis for the proposed greenway is on tourists.
Is there a possibility that building greenways throughout the country will dilute the number of tourists. Like, has the Waterford, Athlone or Limerick greenway taken tourists from Mayo? Or are numbers equally good for all open greenways?
And could it create a best greenway takes all? I've walked the WRC many times and the views would not be as scenic as say the proposed Connemarra greenway. Even if you read the reviews of say the Mayo greenway there all great but nearly all use the scenery as the main reason.
But I do wish a decision is made soon.

westtip

ShaneC1600 wrote: »

But I do wish a decision is made soon.

And so say all of us!

Grandeeod

I'm convinced that if it wasn't for the Greenway idea, the WRC would be dead and buried by now. Flies are attracted to ****e. And vice versa. 16 years later and its still a topic here. 38 years later after the Priest report and its still going strong.

Amazing and futile stuff. I'l check back in a year and no doubt I'll read the same oul guff from both sides.:rolleyes:

Lord Glentoran

westtip wrote: »

could folks please look at this photo attached and do a risk assessment, I mean what are those people thinking of placing themselves in peril and danger with only so much as a flimsy wire fence to protect them from imminent calamity; And this clearly is not the Avon Valley Heritage Railway, people call me Anti railway, I am not by the way but maybe we now have the anti greenway parallel to a railway faction! one thing I will say if they had done this alongside the Ennis/Athenry line it would have had more users than the railway! and it would have encouraged people to cycle one way and train it back the other, hey ho on we we go choo choo

Indeed. The same railway that has been pointed out many many times before that has a 25mph speed limit.

I have some sympathy with Grandeeod’s post that we go around the houses on these threads.

Perhaps a bit of 1980s BASIC programming would replicate these threads in perpetuity:

10 START
20 TYPE “TRAINS ARE BAD”
30 TYPE “TRAINS ARE GOOD”
40 GOTO 20

Markcheese

westtip wrote: »

strangely I trust people to be able to walk on a footpath without stepping out in front of a truck, so no reason why I wouldn't apply the same thinking to people walking alongside a railway, .

This isn't an Irish thing, but have you noticed people on holiday when they walk, they wander, up the middle of the road, stop and contemplate life at the entrance to a car park, halt behind a fork lift on a working pier... People are idiots, (I know I'm people), so a fence would be necessary to stop some twit wandering along an active rail line... But as it'll never again be an active railway line. And because sour grapes seems to stop it being a green way, its all bit accedemic really..

westtip

Markcheese wrote: »

This isn't an Irish thing, but have you noticed people on holiday when they walk, they wander, up the middle of the road, stop and contemplate life at the entrance to a car park, halt behind a fork lift on a working pier... People are idiots, (I know I'm people), so a fence would be necessary to stop some twit wandering along an active rail line... But as it'll never again be an active railway line. And because sour grapes seems to stop it being a green way, its all bit accedemic really..

Yep good points MC, I think the debate has got a bit sidetracked (sic), the alongside argument only really applies to when a working line alignment is being used, this won't be the case on the Athenry - Collooney line as it is not going to be re-opened we are just waiting for the inevitable to actually stated. Re a fence to stop someone going on an active line from a parallel greenway the debate seems to have got a bit futile, we would probably end up with a huge over the top palastrade like the Canneygates in Athenry because that seems to be they way Irish Rail think, although I see no reason why a small modest wire fence could not be the solution. As you say all a bit academic, there appears to be no plans to put a parallel greenway on the Galway Dublin line to resolve the impasse on the Galway - Dublin Greenway and we seem to be getting nowhere these days on building tourism in the west with a greenway from Athenry to Collooney, the impasse is frustrating to say the least. Government review of the Western Rail corridor.......when oh when is that going to be released.....when it has been fudged into another can kicking exercise is probably the answer.

Lord Glentoran

Markcheese wrote: »

This isn't an Irish thing, but have you noticed people on holiday when they walk, they wander, up the middle of the road, stop and contemplate life at the entrance to a car park, halt behind a fork lift on a working pier... People are idiots, (I know I'm people), so a fence would be necessary to stop some twit wandering along an active rail line... But as it'll never again be an active railway line. And because sour grapes seems to stop it being a green way, its all bit accedemic really..

You assume “sour grapes”, I assume the desire of the greenway campaigners to reinforce rural and urban sprawl unhindered. It’s all relative really.

Muckyboots

Del.Monte wrote: »

CIE love any excuse to whack up a palisade fence and a greenway fenced off by one would hardly be a pleasant experience, but there's nowt queer as folk.

I see nowt as queer as sitting a stool, freezing the brass monkies, in anticipation of a 001 Class or a 121 Class with an overpriced Canon or Nokia on a tripod, but I promise I'll give a friendly wave when I pass on my grossly overpriced hybryd in unnecessary tight-fitting lycra. Horses for courses - if you excuse the mixed metaphor. I'll take a greenway anyway and anyhow.

random_guy

yer man! wrote: »

ShaneC1600 wrote: »

There's a greenway I use here in Leiden, The Netherlands that runs along the main railway into Amsterdam. Trains travel up to 140km/h on this particular section and there's a train every 3 minutes. It's not an issue at all, there's a decent wire fence separating the line from the greenway. It's about 10ft tall. It honestly feels very safe, it's just really nice not to be next to cars and buses!

I can throw a little into this debate.
The fences don't need to be massive. In general, the situation is a lot safer that road traffic.

The photos is one that I took in 2016 in Germany. On that line are freight trains, ICEs (not at full speed), IC, Regional trains, and s-bahns. Around about a train of some description every 10 minutes.

That rickety old fence is all that separates people, bikes, children, animals, and the odd car from the trains. Since I took this photo the situation has not improved and in fact the fence is missing in many places.

A bit of common sense goes a long way in these situations. (yes yes, common sense is not so common).


Another example which I'm aware of, and which is more similar to the Irish situation (in terms of traffic volume and speed) is here: https://goo.gl/maps/a4dppfG28Ndip2ME8

In this case, there is no fence. Only a grass margin about 2 metre wide or so.

eastwest

The sad part of all this is that the row between the pro tourism group and the people who probably genuinely believe that trains will run on this route just allows the government to take their money elsewhere. The existence of two factions gives them the perfect excuse to do nothing, and the money goes to waterford, or Kerry, or anywhere but Galway/Mayo/Sligo.

Lord Glentoran

eastwest wrote: »

The sad part of all this is that the row between the pro tourism group and the people who probably genuinely believe that trains will run on this route just allows the government to take their money elsewhere. The existence of two factions gives them the perfect excuse to do nothing, and the money goes to waterford, or Kerry, or anywhere but Galway/Mayo/Sligo.

You are implying that those who support the redevelopment of a railway connection are anti tourism. Do any number of bikes get anywhere by bus in Ireland?

galwaytt

westtip wrote: »

Difficult to understand how they can be taking so long to state the obvious!

oh that's easy, it's called ... "Billable Hours".

westtip

galwaytt wrote: »

oh that's easy, it's called ... "Billable Hours".

Possibly but I think this a fixed fee contract, I think its got more to do with the liklihood they have been told to ease off on the gas and not rush it, sure we wouldn't want a decision before an election would we!!!

Muckyboots

https://www.shannonside.ie/news/local/west-meath/irish-rail-asked-consider-developing-light-rail-system-link-athlone-mullingar/
Irish Rail is to be asked to consider developing a light rail system that would link Athlone to Mullingar. Councillor Tom Farrell believes that with Athlone’s designation as a centre of regional development, as well as an expected increase in students at AIT and increased economic growth in the Shannonside region and a link between two of Westmeath’s biggest towns would make sense. He has proposed that a light rail system would run on the currently disused track, which in recent years has seen thousands of tourists walks its paths as part of a greenway. Councillor Farrell believes that a similar system works well in Europe, where a fence is erected between the greenways and the rail line to improve safety.

There ya are now!

Carawaystick

No light rail carriages/trams run on 1600mm gauge, and none ever will.

eastwest

Carawaystick wrote: »

No light rail carriages/trams run on 1600mm gauge, and none ever will.

Just as with the railway north of athenry, none of the track on mullingar-athlone is capable of carrying anything, and would have to be ripped up and replaced along with the ballast if it was decided to open a light or heavy railway on the route.
The light rail idea is just a flyer from a councillor, if any railway is laid in the future on this route it would make sense to build a heavy railway.
But all least the route will have been preserved by the greenway.

serfboard

Muckyboots wrote: »

Irish Rail is to be asked to [do something]. Councillor [X] believes ...

Yada, yada, yada ...

An alternate version of paper never refuses ink, is that local radio never refuses any content from politicians - no matter how daft.

westtip

eastwest wrote: »

Just as with the railway north of athenry, none of the track on mullingar-athlone is capable of carrying anything, and would have to be ripped up and replaced along with the ballast if it was decided to open a light or heavy railway on the route.
The light rail idea is just a flyer from a councillor, if any railway is laid in the future on this route it would make sense to build a heavy railway.
But all least the route will have been preserved by the greenway.

The truth is if we had a real rail lobby group representing the West of Ireland the Athlone - Mullingar - Connolly route had the potential for an alternative Athlone commuter route to Dublin and an alternative route for Galway Dublin. The greenway does protect this route, but as a railway route is has massively more potential than Claremorris to Athenry!

westtip

westtip wrote: »

The truth is if we had a real rail lobby group representing the West of Ireland the Athlone - Mullingar - Connolly route had the potential for an alternative Athlone commuter route to Dublin and an alternative route for Galway Dublin. The greenway does protect this route, but as a railway route is has massively more potential than Claremorris to Athenry!

That route would work better if the trains terminated at a reopened Broadstone station