Western Rail Corridor / Rail Trail

westtip

serfboard wrote: »

Good man. Dog in the manger. "It's OUR land", declare the railway advocates. Well it's not, actually. It's public land. And, as the march in Tuam clearly showed, the public want this land to be used as a Greenway.

Shouldn't worry about it too much Serf, they just don't get it, the funny thing is they seem to think this rail review is going to deliver a purchase order form for the Department of Transport to sign to procure the railway, that is another thing they don't get, the DoT has no interest in this closed railway re-opening which is why Dept officials wrote the actual words "Western Rail Trail" into the first drafts of the national greenway strategy until Sean Canney got them removed; I feel quite sorry for them really because they are on a hiding to nothing, their whole operation now seems geared around stopping the greenway at all costs, quite sad really.

end of the road

serfboard wrote: »

The best bang for the buck comes from converting unused/abandoned railway lines as the line to Tuam is.

Good man. Dog in the manger. "It's OUR land", declare the railway advocates. Well it's not, actually. It's public land. And, as the march in Tuam clearly showed, the public want this land to be used as a Greenway.

some of the public want the land used as a greenway. some of the public don't.
a march in tuam means nothing really given it's likely most at that march weren't even from the area, or even the counties involved. i could see a good number at a march for better cycling infrastructure in dublin or cork on the other hand as there would be a lot of potential users.

Muckyboots wrote: »

Some day a Minister for Transport with balls will issue an abandonment order for this "currently out of use" railway "because it's costing the state too much money to maintain and the locals can't agree on what to do with it". It'll be nestled quietly in the planning permissions section in a regional newspaper and will get about ten minutes of coverage on national media, with a few old fogies and a priest thumping their chests. That'll be the..... end of the road.

the line is costing the state absolutely nothing as it is not being maintained.
a minister for transport with balls won't be issuing an abandonment order for the line. CIE have to start that process and agree that they want to abandon the line. they seem to be in no hurry to do that.
so, another epic fail i'm afraid.

end of the road

Deleted User wrote: »

No sense of humour?

i have a great sense of humour myself but
that is not humour.

Isambard

the fact is there is room for a railway and a greenway on that corridor of land. Trouble is neither party wants to compromise and both want the entire formation for themselves.

westtip

end of the road wrote: »

a march in tuam means nothing really given it's likely most at that march weren't even from the area,

Oh come on, a sunny Sunday afternoon in September in a small country town in the west of Ireland? A gathering of families with buggies and young and old alike, are you seriously suggesting this was rent a mob like the water protests or some anti capitalist anti G7 rally, get real, now I will admit I drove down from Sligo, but everyone I spoke to there was from eitheer Tuam or Athenry. It gets mind boggling when denialism comes into the thinking.

end of the road wrote: »

i could see a good number at a march for better cycling infrastructure in dublin or cork on the other hand as there would be a lot of potential users.

I actually doubt 3,000 Dubs would turn out on a march or cycle for better cycling infrastructure, if you think they would send out a rallying call and ask them to turn up.

end of the road wrote: »

the line is costing the state absolutely nothing as it is not being maintained.
a minister for transport with balls won't be issuing an abandonment order for the line. CIE have to start that process and agree that they want to abandon the line. they seem to be in no hurry to do that.
so, another epic fail i'm afraid.

Irish Rail have no interest in this line, they have no interest in the greenway either, they are totally indifferent towards it, doing nothing is costing the state a lost opportunity to generate revenue through VAT on purchases made by people using the greenway; that is a lost revenue opportunity. The Taxes paid by people earning an income from the greenway the same and the savings on social security payments by some people working as a result of the greenway.

One day the penny will drop.

westtip

Isambard wrote: »

the fact is there is room for a railway and a greenway on that corridor of land. Trouble is neither party wants to compromise and both want the entire formation for themselves.

When will this get through your skull and those of you arguing for a railway that the greenway lobby would be perfectly happy to have a parallel greenway when the time is right and affordable to have a railway, how many times does this have to be said, nobody has a problem with the railway when the conditions are right, they are not, so what is the point in asking for it. When they are put the railway down and lay a path alongside. When will this finally be understood?

CatInABox

westtip wrote: »

I hadn't heard about that what has he been upto?:D

Would you like policy formulation with that? - Seán Canney’s restaurant spending revealed

Isambard

westtip wrote: »

When will this get through your skull and those of you arguing for a railway that the greenway lobby would be perfectly happy to have a parallel greenway when the time is right and affordable to have a railway, how many times does this have to be said, nobody has a problem with the railway when the conditions are right, they are not, so what is the point in asking for it. When they are put the railway down and lay a path alongside. When will this finally be understood?

touchy aren't you.

To prove your bona fides you need to take on board constructing the Greenway to one side of the formation leaving a defined corridor for eventual rail replacement. You aren't willing to do this as you claim it will be better to place the greenway on the foundations of the track, which in truth have disappeared into the mud years ago.

Noone will believe that you will eventually allow , without a murmur, that greenway to be ripped up and rebuilt to one side to leave the rail line be built. No, many will suspect you want to stick it in the middle to prevent the railway ever being built. This is the sticking point that needs compromise.

Isambard

Isambard wrote: »

touchy aren't you.

To prove your bona fides you need to take on board constructing the Greenway to one side of the formation leaving a defined corridor for eventual rail replacement. You aren't willing to do this as you claim it will be better to place the greenway on the foundations of the track, which in truth have disappeared into the mud years ago.

Noone will believe that you will eventually allow , without a murmur, that greenway to be ripped up and rebuilt to one side to leave the rail line be built. No, many will suspect you want to stick it in the middle to prevent the railway ever being built. This is the sticking point that needs compromise.

It's simple economics.

It will cost a tenth to build it on the current alignment as opposed to alongside right now.

Come time for trains the existing line and its foundations would have to be replaced. Increasing the width at that point would add a certain percentage to the overall cost of the project but that percentage would still be far lower than building alongside now as anything built alongside now would also need to be replaced at that point.

Also, and this seems to be missed by the rail lobby, its IR who will have the final say when it comes time to run trains as the line would only be leased to the local authorities and all such leases quite clearly state that they can resume ownership should trains be viable.

Note, the alignment north of Tuam will never see trains again in its current formation and a whole new alignment would be needed unless 4 hour train journeys are the goal

westtip

Isambard wrote: »

touchy aren't you.

To prove your bona fides you need to take on board constructing the Greenway to one side of the formation leaving a defined corridor for eventual rail replacement. You aren't willing to do this as you claim it will be better to place the greenway on the foundations of the track, which in truth have disappeared into the mud years ago.

Noone will believe that you will eventually allow , without a murmur, that greenway to be ripped up and rebuilt to one side to leave the rail line be built. No, many will suspect you want to stick it in the middle to prevent the railway ever being built. This is the sticking point that needs compromise.

I am not touchy as you say but this debate is getting tiresome. re your comment Noone will believe that you will eventually allow It is not my decision - comprennez??? What part of the licensng contract written as standard with Irish Rail that says if the route is needed for rail in future railway will take precedence, if the greenway is put down the middle on the old ballast - and a new railway is about to happen the whole thing would have to be ripped up. It is not a sticking point it does not need compromise the agreement between irish rail and the local authority will be in black and white and fully understood and will take full precedence the community will be merely borrowing the route for a few decades until the railway is possible and you me and everyone else involved in this will be pushing up daisies.

So no I am not touchy I just fail to see what part of this agenda that clearly sets this out, that anyone in West on Track or their supporters fails to understand.

Isambard

the old ballast is a fiction. There never was much of it on this very cheaply built line and what there is won't be fit for purpose, meaning a new foundation will be needed. Lift the track, bulldoze what ballast there is to one side, add to it , as necessary , lay your Greenway. How can that increase the cost tenfold?

Acting as Devil's advocate, why not adopt the policy as I outline and then put it to the railway people, that a reserved formation will be there for them whenever needed, transparently visible. They'd have not a leg to stand on then to block the Greenway.

Your tone reveals more than your words. You are too close to the matter and need to step back and review the whole picture.

westtip

Isambard wrote: »

the old ballast is a fiction. There never was much of it on this very cheaply built line and what there is won't be fit for purpose, meaning a new foundation will be needed. Lift the track, bulldoze what ballast there is to one side, add to it , as necessary , lay your Greenway. How can that increase the cost tenfold?

Acting as Devil's advocate, why not adopt the policy as I outline and then put it to the railway people, that a reserved formation will be there for them whenever needed, transparently visible. They'd have not a leg to stand on then to block the Greenway.

Your tone reveals more than your words. You are too close to the matter and need to step back and review the whole picture.

Holy mother, get me out of here, I give up.

Grandeeod

There is practically no room at all to put both a rail alignment and green way together on the WRC. Can that fact not be put to bed once and for all.

Del.Monte

I really need it to reopen, never having travelled on a regular service train between Limerick and Claremorris. At this stage I need it to reopen purely to thwart the anti-railway charlatans who want a greenway.

Grandeeod

Del.Monte wrote: »

I really need it to reopen, never having travelled on a regular service train between Limerick and Claremorris. At this stage I need it to reopen purely to thwart the anti-railway charlatans who want a greenway.

Ah come on! You never rattled along the line in a passenger coach? I thought you'd seen it all! Were you too busy saying goodbye to the North Kerry, Ardee and Loughrea branches??;) Did you even manage the Castleisland branch?:D

Isambard

Grandeeod wrote: »

There is practically no room at all to put both a rail alignment and green way together on the WRC. Can that fact not be put to bed once and for all.

sorry but you are wrong, there is plenty of room along most of the line, with possibly the odd pinch points at a couple of bridges which can be overcome relatively easily.

end of the road

westtip wrote: »

Oh come on, a sunny Sunday afternoon in September in a small country town in the west of Ireland? A gathering of families with buggies and young and old alike, are you seriously suggesting this was rent a mob like the water protests or some anti capitalist anti G7 rally, get real, now I will admit I drove down from Sligo, but everyone I spoke to there was from eitheer Tuam or Athenry. It gets mind boggling when denialism comes into the thinking.





I actually doubt 3,000 Dubs would turn out on a march or cycle for better cycling infrastructure, if you think they would send out a rallying call and ask them to turn up.






Irish Rail have no interest in this line, they have no interest in the greenway either, they are totally indifferent towards it, doing nothing is costing the state a lost opportunity to generate revenue through VAT on purchases made by people using the greenway; that is a lost revenue opportunity. The Taxes paid by people earning an income from the greenway the same and the savings on social security payments by some people working as a result of the greenway.

One day the penny will drop.

the water protests were not a rent a mob. they were a vital protest against being forced to pay another unaffordable charge for a human right, a charge which would have brought undue hardship upon struggling people, and which would have allowed that human right to become a commodity. they were absolutely necessary and hopefully the people will be out on the streets again with this latest stunt to try and commoditize a human right. no way we won't pay.

Grandeeod

Isambard wrote: »

sorry but you are wrong, there is plenty of room along most of the line, with possibly the odd pinch points at a couple of bridges which can be overcome relatively easily.

I'm wrong? Don't think so. Have a look at the video below. I posted it a while back and it was ignored then.:eek: Claremorris - Athenry. I also have extensive on site knowledge of the route as far as Sligo. If you want a side by side railway and green way, best of luck to you.:rolleyes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEfx5T3G4NQ&t=938s

Isambard

well the train would need a dynamic envelope of not much more than 10 feet and the formation is well over 50 feet in most places so go figure, or ,mayb e you can't see the fences and walls?

Lord Glentoran

Isambard wrote: »

well the train would need a dynamic envelope of not much more than 10 feet and the formation is well over 50 feet in most places so go figure, or ,mayb e you can't see the fences and walls?

10 feet? At what speed? 15 mph?

Isambard

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

10 feet? At what speed? 15 mph?

how far apart do you think the tracks are on a two track line? I can tell you it's popularly called the 6 foot. I'd suggest the same width overall for twin tracks would be more than ample for a rail line + greenway . So let's say an overall minimum of around 20 feet on a formation 2 or three times that with gauntleting or other means at pinch points

eastwest

Isambard wrote: »

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

10 feet? At what speed? 15 mph?

how far apart do you think the tracks are on a two track line? I can tell you it's popularly called the 6 foot. I'd suggest the same width overall for twin tracks would be more than ample for a rail line + greenway . So let's say an overall minimum of around 20 feet on a formation 2 or three times that with gauntleting or other means at pinch points

It works everywhere else. Including seapoint in Dublin and on the royal canal greenway near castleknock.
But of course I forgot, the wrc is going to be designed for bullet trains, that will suck up everything within half a mile, including subsidies.

Isambard

edit: the post this refers to has been deleted, so I'm deleting this one because it doesn't make sense anymore

devnull

Thread reopened.

Quite simply the kind of behaviour on this thread recently has left an awful lot to be desired and is not going to be allowed to continue. We expect far better standards of posting than I have saw over the last few pages.

Insulting someone, making derogatory comments or nicknames to people is against the forum charter and will not be tolerated. Focusing on the poster rather than the post will also not be accepted, you need to keep your posts related to the topic at hand or simply don't post at all.

I also don't want to see any more references to a certain Facebook page, I'm sure you know which one I'm talking about. Posting about it again or posting a link to it will result in immediate sanctions being applied to the poster who references it. It has no place in this thread.

If you cannot uphold the kind of behaviour we expect from folks here, then we will have to consider closing this thread permanently. I'm sure you wouldn't like that but it's future is in your hands.

- Moderator

Greaney

Thank you. I left the discussion for a while there because it was not very constructive.

So, as many of ye know, There's a group called the Ballyglunin Railway Project, and they've been working away for years to restore the station which was used in the film 'The Quiet Man', (Many folk under 30 don't know it, but it's a John Wayne & Maureen O' Hara classic).


They support the railway and hope it will open some day, so meanwhile they're making sure it's the prettiest station in Ireland. They'll be having an 'open day' in 'Castletown Station' on Thursday the 22nd of August from 10-6 with pop up tea rooms etc.

It'd be great if one day the Belmond Grand Hibernian could stop there one day. I know the Athenry to Limerick line is a much prettier journey than Galway to Dublin

eastwest

Greaney wrote: »

Thank you. I left the discussion for a while there because it was not very constructive.

So, as many of ye know, There's a group called the Ballyglunin Railway Project, and they've been working away for years to restore the station which was used in the film 'The Quiet Man', (Many folk under 30 don't know it, but it's a John Wayne & Maureen O' Hara classic).


They support the railway and hope it will open some day, so meanwhile they're making sure it's the prettiest station in Ireland. They'll be having an 'open day' in 'Castletown Station' on Thursday the 22nd of August from 10-6 with pop up tea rooms etc.

It'd be great if one day the Belmond Grand Hibernian could stop there one day. I know the Athenry to Limerick line is a much prettier journey than Galway to Dublin

That's a great community project, it saved an iconic building from dereliction.
It's a pity that the great volunteers who made this happen seem to have been swayed by the 'rail only' argument, and don't support the greenway.
Still, once the rail review is done with, that great volunteering spirit will make the greenway a success.

Isambard

what's this then? https://www.facebook.com/groups/213079802087801/

serfboard

eastwest wrote: »

That's a great community project, it saved an iconic building from dereliction.
...
Still, once the rail review is done with, that great volunteering spirit will make the greenway a success.

Indeed. And the station will get great use as a café, just like the former station in Mulranney does now.

Lord Glentoran

serfboard wrote: »

Indeed. And the station will get great use as a café, just like the former station in Mulranney does now.

Perhaps they can put a plywood cut out of a train on one side of the platform.

eastwest

Isambard wrote: »

what's this then? https://www.facebook.com/groups/213079802087801/

It appears to be a Facebook page for the Quiet Man Greenway, which will run from Athenry to Milltown.