The 8th amendment referendum - part 4

ohnonotgmail

nullzero wrote: »

The thing is you didn't counter anything.

I commented on your hypocrisy. It is clear that the No side have no answers apart from keep your legs closed.

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nullzero

BabyCheeses wrote: »

Why has nobody ever thought of this? Quick, we have to spread the word. If a person doesn't get pregnant then their is no reason for an abortion! You're a genius, greatest mind of the millennium, no, greatest mind in human history!



Someone needs to send this man to the Nobel committee ASAP. Literature, physics, peace, EVERYTHING. Just give him them all for the rest of his life.

Wonderful reductionist logic.
I'd say pat yourself on the back but your in the middle of doing it now aren't you?

nullzero

....... wrote: »

Absolutely.

Id prefer a good looking one too.

Who wouldnt?

You're smack bang in the middle of eugenics now.

jill_valentine

Trasna1 wrote: »

I disagree. Without the 8th these groups will be marginalised and deemed irrelevant to the discussion. Aside from the hardcore, this will fizzle out -although they may reform under an anti assisted dying campaign, which will probably be the last conservative domino to fall.

A lot of the No side is a venn-diagram-is-a-circle extreme right wing faction. I think it's deadly dangerous to assume they'll simply melt away after this, rather than learning the lingo to blend in, and finding new angles of attack and masks to wear. Both Britain and the US got complacent about this stuff when it looked like the bad guys were defeated, and they're both staring down the barrels of something very dark indeed now.

I'm very fearful that Yes will win and everyone will dust their hands, put up a Mission Accomplished banner and take their eye off the ball. Zealots don't really get bored. In this referendum, we've seen glimpses of what I think is a much bigger monster under the surface, and we should be very wary of it.

BarleySweets

circadian wrote: »

Just curious, is there a list of signatories for Doctors for Choice? Would like to know where my own GP stands on this if possible.

There’s a list on togetherforyes.ie

nullzero

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

I commented on your hypocrisy. It is clear that the No side have no answers apart from keep your legs closed.

What hypocrisy?

Zubeneschamali

nullzero wrote: »

If somebody were to actually think that way then perhaps parenthood and by extension conception of a child is something they should avoid.

And if the conception has happened already, perhaps they should consider their options...

Cee-Jay-Cee

I was veering towards voting No in the hope that the government would then introduce some form of middle ground legislation rather than the 'free abortion for all' type scenario we could end up with if the yes vote succeeded even though part of me believed that I should vote yes as its not my call and that the decision should be an individual one made by the person in question.

However, given the horrible nature of the No campaign/side I am now firmly voting YES, I do not want to be associated with the type of people who would rather guilt people (most of them religious weirdos) into voting No by placing hundreds of white wooden crosses along a 20km stretch of road in Donegal and then yesterday, some bright spark has parked a 20ft container/trailer with a full size banner on it asking 'Will Friday 25th turn out to be bloodiest in Irish history' along with a picture of a foetus beside the slogan. They have firmly turned me against their campaign with their grotesque pictures and slogans and now I have to explain to my 7 year old what the huge **** off banner 50m from my house is all about.

antiskeptic

BarleySweets wrote: »

There’s a list on togetherforyes.ie

Where is this list. I've not been able to find it and for some reason I keep getting told it's on together4yes. Anyone got a link?

ohnonotgmail

nullzero wrote: »

What hypocrisy?

I pointed it out in a post and you responded. Are you having trouble keeping up?

woejus

nullzero wrote: »

You're smack bang in the middle of eugenics now.

You're smack bang in the middle of "After Hours" yet you're treating it like we're at the Colours Debate

nullzero

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

And if the conception has happened already, perhaps they should consider their options...

So late term abortion for cleft lip is an option you want to be available in Ireland?

SusieBlue

antiskeptic wrote: »

Where is this list. I've not been able to find it and for some reason I keep getting told it's on together4yes. Anyone got a link?

https://www.togetherforyes.ie/doctors/

Scroll down to the bottom of the page.

B0jangles

circadian wrote: »

Just curious, is there a list of signatories for Doctors for Choice? Would like to know where my own GP stands on this if possible.

List is here:


https://www.togetherforyes.ie/doctors/

antiskeptic

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

I was veering towards voting No in the hope that the government would then introduce some form of middle ground legislation rather than the 'free abortion for all' type scenario we could end up with if the yes vote even though part of me believed that I should vote yes as its not my call and that the decision should be an individual one made by the person in question. However, given the horrible nature of the No campaign/side I am now firmly voting YES, I do not want to be associated with the type of people who would rather guilt people into voting by placing hundreds of white wooden crosses along a 20km stretch of road in Donegal and then yesterday, some bright spark has parked a 20ft container/trailer with a full size banner on it asking 'Will Friday 25th turn out to be bloodiest in Irish history' along with a picture of a foetus beside the slogan. They have firmly turned me against them with their grotesque pictures and slogans and now I have to explain to my 7 year old what the huge **** off banner 50m from my house is all about.

Do you normally shoot the messenger?

ohnonotgmail

antiskeptic wrote: »

Where is this list. I've not been able to find it and for some reason I keep getting told it's on together4yes. Anyone got a link?

full list at the bottom of this page

http://www.togetherforyes.ie/doctors

nullzero

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

I pointed it out in a post and you responded. Are you having trouble keeping up?

You attributed the cleft lip issue as being an issue I raised, I'm not sure how that makes me a hypocrite.

PhoenixParker

cournioni wrote: »

Issue is, what is being proposed by the yes side can be easily abused. Most people can be trusted, but not everybody can be, no matter what their gender is.

And generally when most people can be trusted we let everyone get on with their lives.

We don't have breathalysers on all cars even though drink drivers kill. Or speed limiters.

In medical matters we add in a prescription system and doctor's as gate keepers.

Except abortion, then much more extreme measures are warranted. Only an outright ban, just in case, will do for the no side.

woejus

antiskeptic wrote: »

Do you normally shoot the messenger?

Could have done with shooting this particular messenger before they went on a child raping, baby mass grave dumping frenzy and cultural war rampage over the last 50 years... "and the greatest of these is love", apparently.

ohnonotgmail

nullzero wrote: »

You attributed the cleft lip issue as being an issue I raised, I'm not sure how that makes me a hypocrite.

LOL. You quoted 2 of my posts. Try again.

Trasna1

circadian wrote: »

Just curious, is there a list of signatories for Doctors for Choice? Would like to know where my own GP stands on this if possible.

There is. Because it appears to be within some sort of web app, the find function doesn't work properly in the browser, so you may be scrolling for a while.

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Neyite

Malaya Red Sandlot wrote: »

But many couples would happily adopt two or three children over a number of years. Also many couples at the moment don't even apply to adopt because there's so little chance of adopting at home and the process of adopting abroad is daunting and incredibly expensive.
.

You are mistaken in parts of what you say. When a couple decide to adopt they get assessed in Ireland. Once approved, then they can begin the search for their child. It makes no difference where the child comes from, the adoption vetting is the same process.

The reason so few children are offered up for adoption here in Ireland is parental rights, ironically also enshrined in the constitution. That's why we've thousands in foster care who can't get adopted. Their parents won't legally relinquish them to be adopted, even if that means the child spending their entire life going from foster home to foster home with their little lives in a bin bag with no stability, no constant adult parental figure no real family of their own. This publication by Barnardos explains it better than I could why changes needed to happen for children at risk.

And funnily enough the No side also opposed any changes suggested during the Children's Referendum which sought to make changes to the constitution to better benefit children in care. They opposed and lobbied in cases to return children to awful homes full of squalor and abuse. Because of the sanctity of the Family. The No side also opposed adoption by couples in same sex marriages.

You are right that we could make the adoption process better - but it isn't an answer to abortion rates here. That won't benefit children in the way you think it would. The process to get approved is laborious and intensive and takes years - but that's done for the child's benefit. Child development is so very important and must be considered first and foremost over the yearnings of an infertile couple. And I say that as someone who had infertility and would have loved to have adopted or fostered. Unfortunately I'd be ineligible for either on several criteria (work, age, renting etc) The standard has to be high. Children deserve no less, surely?

ohnonotgmail

Trasna1 wrote: »

There is. Because it appears to be within some sort of web app, the find function doesn't work properly in the browser, so you may be scrolling for a while.

the full list is here. It does have a search function

https://airtable.com/shrjybYrav6nobuTs/tbllRWNV6aANY6htW?backgroundColor=green

erica74

cournioni wrote: »

Issue is, what is being proposed by the yes side can be easily abused. Most people can be trusted, but not everybody can be, no matter what their gender is.

So because you think a minority of women "can't be trusted", we should all be punished?

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SusieBlue

cournioni wrote: »

Issue is, what is being proposed by the yes side can be easily abused. Most people can be trusted, but not everybody can be, no matter what their gender is.

I think we can safely trust every citizen with regards to their own personal healthcare.

The whole "trust women" slogan is often misrepresented - we aren't asking to trust every single woman on every single issue, we are asking to trust them with their own healthcare for their own body.

nullzero

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

LOL. You quoted 2 of my posts. Try again.

You need to check yourself.i have no idea what you're on about.

I've looked back and I'm stumped.
Please show me where I contradicted myself.

Zubeneschamali

nullzero wrote: »

They could just not get pregnant.

Tommy Cooper: Doctor, it hurts when I do this (waves arm)

Doctor: Don't do that.