The 8th amendment referendum - part 4

nullzero

BarleySweets wrote: »

Going by this thread they’ve all got very similar opinions alright, no matter how they word them they all boil down to one or many of very few common threads:


- sluts should keep their legs closed

- only a few girls ever have to deal with rape/incest so why bother introducing legislation for the rest of us

- abortion promotes promiscuity

- sure stop looking at the hard cases that die or end up crippled, look at the ones who went through hard cases and ended up fine with a bouncing babby in their arms

- the man in my church says God hates abortion and loves babies, and therefore I believe that you and Irish society as a whole should do what the man in my church says because he talks to God, don’t you know

- abortion will be a genocide on white Irish babies

Utter claptrap.

nullzero

....... wrote: »

Maybe they didnt make the decision to conceive?

I've covered this already.

If you're planning to be a parent perhaps you should think twice if you're going to abort for a disability.

woejus

nullzero wrote: »

You are clearly wrong, there is a difference between cleft lip and pallet BTW.

Some of the posting here is bizarre.

You don't seem to know the difference :

Lip:



"Pallet" :

Penn

123balltv wrote: »

I'll be voting YES if for only for fetal syndrome/ rape etc

Healthy babies NO never.

A baby conceived as a result of rape could be perfectly healthy.

Why would you consider that to be an okay scenario to abort a healthy baby as opposed to other reasons?

Hotblack Desiato

L.Jenkins wrote: »

I wonder does the bookies have odds on prominent members of the No Campaign having very public melt downs in the come week?

some of them are in semi-permanent meltdown mode

Just look at John Waters

cournioni

PhoenixParker wrote: »

I agree, for me hospital visits and the extra care would be inconvenient but not remotely abortion worthy

but as I outlined can also see where a woman's specific and individual circumstances might render dealing with the medical treatment for a cleft lip not just difficult but virtually impossible.

As such I personally believe we should trust women to decide.

The legislators don't agree with me btw. Cleft lip won't fall within the proposed grounds for abortion after 12 weeks.

Issue is, what is being proposed by the yes side can be easily abused. Most people can be trusted, but not everybody can be, no matter what their gender is.

Zubeneschamali

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

You seem to be underestimating the older generation of Ireland and the power with which they will come out to vote for this.

The Ipsos/MRBI poll has the 50-64 group level pegging, which I think is right - these people were 15-29 in 1983, the youngest cohort who could vote, and would not have gone near the 2:1 pro-8th vote. average.

The older cohort, 65+, poll 47-30 on favour of the 8th, a 3:2 ratio.

Not enough.

ohnonotgmail

nullzero wrote: »

You're not painting a particularly flattering picture of women there.
How inconvenient to have to take a child to hospital for treatment.
If somebody were to actually think that way then perhaps parenthood and by extension conception of a child is something they should avoid.
That's the thing about being a parent, you come last every time, your own convenience isn't on the table once a baby is born.

You're not doing a great job of that yourself

nullzero wrote: »

They could just not get pregnant.
Or should they have abortion after abortion until they have that goldilocks "just right" pregnancy?

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Stonedpilot

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

I can't fathom why yes voters are so confident of getting a result because of how things are looking online and on the streets etc. You seem to be underestimating the older generation of Ireland and the power with which they will come out to vote for this.

No vote has a good chance of winning.

To those saying no good reason not to have abortion.

Like abortion came into being nationwide in America after Roe vs Wade in 1973 in America.

Roe was a very prominent anti-abortion activist until she died earlier this year. She had a lot to say on the lies used to bring in abortion and she should know, her case was used to justify mass abortion in America!.

The founder of the main abortion clinic chain in America Margaret Sanger what an incredibly vile human being.

Just one of her many lovely quotes

'The most merciful thing a family member can do to it's infant member is to kill it.'

I bet if abortion comes into being in Ireland we will have Planned Parenthood clinics style clinics here with people running them for profit, with similar virtue.:eek:

I know the yes side don't like graphic descriptions or pictures but that is the reality of abortion. It is graphic it is violent.

Depending on the length of the pregnancy crushing/slicing and pulling out a scrambing baby that's trying to survive. Many abortions are like this and aren't medical or pill based.

There's nothing pretty about it.

Surely not crushing a baby to death is reason enough to vote No and seek some better solution?.

ohnonotgmail

nullzero wrote: »

I didn't claim it. Someone else did and I said I found it highly unlikely that is would be true.

Jesus H Christ, can you not follow what's going on?

Well at least we can agree that it was another red herring introduced by the No side.

nullzero

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

You're not doing a great job of that yourself

You're really not putting much effort in are you?

nullzero

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Well at least we can agree that it was another red herring introduced by the No side.

Until people here started saying Aborting babies for having cleft lips is A-OK.

nullzero

....... wrote: »

Why?

If I wanted a baby Id certainly prefer one that wasnt disabled over one that was?

Would you not prefer that?

It's not a case of preference.
I'd prefer to win the lotto than go to work everyday but the reality is I'm not going to.

123balltv

Penn wrote:

A baby conceived as a result of rape could be perfectly healthy.

Why would you consider that to be an okay scenario to abort a healthy baby as opposed to other reasons?

Rape too me is heinous sorry Penn;107074833 the baby is also a new life should have a chance.

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ohnonotgmail

nullzero wrote: »

You're really not putting much effort in are you?

It really doesnt take a lot to counter the No. It has been the same debunked arguments from day one. You're not an original lot.

ohnonotgmail

123balltv wrote: »

Rape too me is heinous sorry Penn;107074833 the baby is also a new life should have a chance.

so you are happy with rape victims being forced to remain pregnant against there will?

SusieBlue

nullzero wrote: »

I've covered this already.

If you're planning to be a parent perhaps you should think twice if you're going to abort for a disability.

Yes, and as I just said, that advice is of no use to someone who is already pregnant and having a crisis.
Shoulda woulda coulda. Its done.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

nullzero wrote: »

They could just not get pregnant.
Or should they have abortion after abortion until they have that goldilocks "just right" pregnancy?

But they ARE PREGNANT.

The only way to 100% avoid the possibility of pregnancy (barring rape) is total abstinence.

In this country we have tried, at great length and with great vigour, the approach of "well don't have sex. And if you do, then you deserve everything that's coming to you". It doesn't. ****ing. Work. And it causes damage, I'm sure we don't need to rehash that history. When the consequences of sex are death, financial ruin, loss of liberty, people still have sex.

People are going to have sex and there's nothing wrong with that. People are going to have unwanted and crisis pregnancies. We can do what we can to reduce those, but we'll never eliminate them. At which point we can grow up and deal with it as a country or we can offer the super helpful, wonderful contribution of "ah you're pregnant and you don't want to be? I got this: YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE HAD SEX. Ok byeeeeee"

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circadian

Just curious, is there a list of signatories for Doctors for Choice? Would like to know where my own GP stands on this if possible.

BabyCheeses

nullzero wrote: »

They could just not get pregnant.
Or should they have abortion after abortion until they have that goldilocks "just right" pregnancy?

Why has nobody ever thought of this? Quick, we have to spread the word. If a person doesn't get pregnant then their is no reason for an abortion! You're a genius, greatest mind of the millennium, no, greatest mind in human history!



Someone needs to send this man to the Nobel committee ASAP. Literature, physics, peace, EVERYTHING. Just give him them all for the rest of his life.

PhoenixParker

nullzero wrote: »

You are clearly wrong, there is a difference between cleft lip and pallet BTW.

Some of the posting here is bizarre.

But you can't tell me why I'm wrong.

The statistics available don't break down lip cs palate for abortion procedures.

UK stats are page 36 here for those asking:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/679028/Abortions_stats_England_Wales_2016.pdf

9 of 3208 ground E abortions listed cleft lip or palate as the principal grounds, additional grounds may also have been involved but that's not available in the data, nor is the weeks gestation except that all were before 24 weeks.

woejus

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

so you are happy with rape victims being forced to remain pregnant against there will?

Pick any response from the Iona playbook

Sympathy
Services
Support


All of these will help in bringing your rapist's child to term

nullzero

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

It really doesnt take a lot to counter the No. It has been the same debunked arguments from day one. You're not an original lot.

The thing is you didn't counter anything.

BarleySweets

nullzero wrote: »

Utter claptrap.

Go ahead and point out why you think what I wrote is claptrap. I’ve got an open mind, so if you’ve got compelling evidence that proves what I wrote is utter claptrap, I’ll support you.

nullzero

....... wrote: »

But it is a case of preference.

If you could tear up this weeks lotto ticket and get the jackpot on the next one - wouldnt you?

That is a shockingly poor argument.

Just her

BarleySweets wrote: »

I’ve seen you bring up this sentience argument a lot. It smacks of you trying to derail the topic. What’s your angle here? I’d be interested in hearing your actual views on the issue.

I think I may have brought it up only once myself actually, on this question that you answer, well replied to but didn't answer. The other times I was replying to other parties who brought it up. I'd answer you but I'd be afraid of being reported and banned for getting into an over and back conversation about it again. If you really want to hear my views I think it's easy enough to check through my posts.

antiskeptic

....... wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Would you prefer an intelligent one too vs. one with a lower than average IQ? Would you buy a test for same if one was available?

What we need is a menu driven smart test. You click on the red-line aspects below which your baby will be aborted, the test is sent out and you're off.