The 8th amendment referendum - part 4

jigglypuffstuff

January wrote: »

Ah don't have sex if you don't want a baby. Shame, shame, I know your name.

Give me one GOOD reason why someone should engage in intercourse instead of the plethora of other activities other than ,

"They want to "
"They like it"

Let me make it simpler... are you suggesting it's better to engage and abort of abstain and prevent

Ones based on selfishness, the other selflessnes

But again... asking too much of this society

On top of that...it's effortless to combine 3 or 4 methods of contraception simultaneously with withdrawal if one wanted... making it damn near impossible to fall pregnant.

But again, selfishness Vs selflessness is what it boils down to. And I'll gladly wait for you to prove otherwise

AtomicHorror

Monkey09 wrote: »

I realise that contraception is not 100% effective. However, when used correctly, I believe it is very effective. I'm not sure exactly what the figures are but I believe it is about 99% if not more.

99% sounds great until you convert that to reality. 99% means 1 unintended pregnancy for every 100 encounters... happily married couples will always be at serious risk with those numbers.

It's not a trivial matter either. One extra child can be the difference between financial security and bankruptcy. It can be the difference between a stable marriage and breakdown.

The consequences for the parents and any existing children can be enormous.

freshpopcorn

Not sure if it's being mentioned but Ronan Mullen and Cora Sherlock are meant to be representing the No side on the Prime Time Debate on Tuesday!

Bannasidhe

suicide_circus wrote: »

Are you for real? Children are property? Means of production? Do you really think that's what I mean? You don't work in academia by any chance?

I'm trying to find out if you are for real with your men rely on women to protect their children in utereo spiel.

A statement that completely ignores the fact that the utereo in question belongs to a woman and it should be her choice if she wants to have it occupied or not.

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Sebastian Dangerfield

pone2012 wrote: »

Give me one GOOD reason why someone should engage in intercourse instead of the plethora of other activities other than ,

"They want to "
"They like it"

Let me make it simpler... are you suggesting it's better to engage and abort of abstain and prevent

Ones based on selfishness, the other selflessnes

But again... asking too much of this society

On top of that...it's effortless to combine 3 or 4 methods of contraception simultaneously with withdrawal if one wanted... making it damn near impossible to fall pregnant.

But again, selfishness Vs selflessness is what it boils down to. And I'll gladly wait for you to prove otherwise

I wish this kind of logic was front and centre in the "No" posters. It would guarantee a whitewash in favour of "Yes"

AtomicHorror

pone2012 wrote: »

Give me one GOOD reason why someone should engage in intercourse instead of the plethora of other activities other than ,

"They want to "
"They like it"

Let me make it simpler... are you suggesting it's better to engage and abort of abstain and prevent

Ones based on selfishness, the other selflessnes

But again... asking too much of this society

On top of that...it's effortless to combine 3 or 4 methods of contraception simultaneously with withdrawal if one wanted... making it damn near impossible to fall pregnant.

But again, selfishness Vs selflessness is what it boils down to. And I'll gladly wait for you to prove otherwise

One good reason- it maintains the relationship between parents in a family, preserving the stability of the family as part of a healthy, loving partnership and helping to prevent marriage breakdown and the consequences on the existing children who you claim to have great concern for.

Mr. CooL ICE

pone2012 wrote: »

Give me one GOOD reason why someone should engage in intercourse instead of the plethora of other activities other than ,

"They want to "
"They like it"

Let me make it simpler... are you suggesting it's better to engage and abort of abstain and prevent

Ones based on selfishness, the other selflessnes

But again... asking too much of this society

On top of that...it's effortless to combine 3 or 4 methods of contraception simultaneously with withdrawal if one wanted... making it damn near impossible to fall pregnant.

But again, selfishness Vs selflessness is what it boils down to. And I'll gladly wait for you to prove otherwise

You are talking absolute scutter

SusieBlue

pone2012 wrote: »

Give me one GOOD reason why someone should engage in intercourse instead of the plethora of other activities other than ,

"They want to "
"They like it"

Let me make it simpler... are you suggesting it's better to engage and abort of abstain and prevent

Ones based on selfishness, the other selflessnes

But again... asking too much of this society

On top of that...it's effortless to combine 3 or 4 methods of contraception simultaneously with withdrawal if one wanted... making it damn near impossible to fall pregnant.

But again, selfishness Vs selflessness is what it boils down to. And I'll gladly wait for you to prove otherwise

Effortless? You can't take more than one hormonal type of contraceptive at once. It isn't allowed. Its dangerous and bad for the body.

I presume you yourself are celibate and have never ever engaged in recreational sex?

Sounds more like you have an issue with people having healthy sex lives than you do with abortion, to be honest.

Igotadose

Monkey09 wrote: »

It can feel pain. I have heard many doctor's have seen babies move away from instruments during an abortion. A baby in the early stages of pregnancy is vulnerable and needs protection. I am not saying that this baby should have rights above those of the mother where the mother's life is in danger. My issue is with ending the life of a human being just because it is not convenient for the woman. That is not right.

As has been posted many times, fetuses can't feel pain at 12 weeks. And, if you're so anti-choice and believe fetuses can feel pain, what about FFA fetuses - force them to feel pain until they're born, or allow for abortion to ease everyone's misery?

Zubeneschamali

Monkey09 wrote: »

I have heard many doctor's have seen babies move away from instruments during an abortion.

You mean the nuns didn't show you that video?

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Monkey09

....... wrote: »

Youd be very wrong.

The typical effective rate of the pill is 91% for example.

Some good info here:
https://www.optionsforsexualhealth.org/birth-control-pregnancy/birth-control-options/effectiveness

We know that over 50% of women who abort in the UK cite contraceptive failure as the reason.

A tiny percentage of a very large number gives a good sized number.

You are stunningly uninformed to be pontificating on what people do with their own bodies.

What people do with their own bodies is their own business, but not where the life of another human being hangs in the balance.

Zubeneschamali

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Not sure if it's being mentioned but Ronan Mullen and Cora Sherlock are meant to be representing the No side on the Prime Time Debate on Tuesday!

Go Toads!

eviltwin

pone2012 wrote: »

Give me one GOOD reason why someone should engage in intercourse instead of the plethora of other activities other than ,

"They want to "
"They like it"

Let me make it simpler... are you suggesting it's better to engage and abort of abstain and prevent

Ones based on selfishness, the other selflessnes

But again... asking too much of this society

On top of that...it's effortless to combine 3 or 4 methods of contraception simultaneously with withdrawal if one wanted... making it damn near impossible to fall pregnant.

But again, selfishness Vs selflessness is what it boils down to. And I'll gladly wait for you to prove otherwise

We are all selfish when it suits us and nothing wrong with that.

Cantona's Collars

Someone has been very busy down my way. More and more handwritten reposts to the yes posters have been hung underneath them.
Eg. "It's her choice" and now underneath "give the baby a choice too". That's one of the more sensible ones,the rest are just annoying at best and downright insulting at worst.
My mother would be regarded as traditional,mass going and conservative but she's voting Yes. When I told her that there were No campaigners once more holding placards along the bridges in Enniscorthy,she rolled her eyes and said something along the lines of "they are cracked".

Bannasidhe

suicide_circus wrote: »

Eh....sex feels good so humans are more likely to reproduce...no?

Men need to ejaculate to orgasm which yes, is linked to human reproduction = women don't.
The female orgasm can occur independently of coitus. Meaning for women orgasm [i.e. sexual pleasure] is not linked to human reproduction.

AtomicHorror

suicide_circus wrote: »

That is sound logic.

The difficulty being that there is a second party (allegedly) involved and taking responsibility for the ending of that life goes beyond the scope of personal responsibility in the usual sense.

How so? The decision still lies with the mother, including whether she bears the guilt of ending a life? To balance that against what else might be- factors which only she can weigh- that is an enormous burden of responsibility. To claim that giving birth in the absence of choice is taking responsibility is pure nonsense.

amcalester

Monkey09 wrote: »

What people do with their own bodies is their own business, but not where the life of another human being hangs in the balance.

Only it's not a human being, the Supreme Court has ruled on that.

LINK

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jigglypuffstuff

AtomicHorror wrote: »

One good reason- it maintains the relationship between parents in a family, preserving the stability of the family as part of a healthy, loving partnership and helping to prevent marriage breakdown and the consequences on the existing children who you claim to have great concern for.

Sorry no, all said things can be gained from additional activity.

If someone's primary motivation for intercourse is pleasure... there's a plethora of other ways to gain that without creating and involving a third party

Stop making excuses

suicide_circus

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I'm trying to find out if you are for real with your men rely on women to protect their children in utereo spiel.

A statement that completely ignores the fact that the utereo in question belongs to a woman and it should be her choice if she wants to have it occupied or not.

But men do rely on women for this. I don't see how that's a controversial statement. As for the question of choice, well that's for the electorate to determine on Friday.

Zubeneschamali

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Men need to ejaculate to orgasm which yes, is linked to human reproduction = women don't.
The female orgasm can occur independently of coitus. Meaning for women orgasm [i.e. sexual pleasure] is not linked to human reproduction.

Same deal for gorillas, apparently. NOT going to google for that research paper.

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Zubeneschamali

pone2012 wrote: »

If someone's primary motivation for intercourse is pleasure... there's a plethora of other ways to gain that without creating and involving a third party

Stamp collecting, for example, an excellent hobby for a young girl.

Bannasidhe

Monkey09 wrote: »

It can feel pain. I have heard many doctor's have seen babies move away from instruments during an abortion. A baby in the early stages of pregnancy is vulnerable and needs protection. I am not saying that this baby should have rights above those of the mother where the mother's life is in danger. My issue is with ending the life of a human being just because it is not convenient for the woman. That is not right.

The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists
Statement on Pain of the Fetus


We know of no legitimate scientific information that supports the statement that a fetus experiences pain early in pregnancy.

We do know that the cerebellum attains its final configuration in the seventh month and that mylenization (or covering) of the spinal cord and the brain begins between the 20th and 40th weeks of pregnancy. These, as well as other neurological developments, would have to be in place for the fetus to receive pain.
To feel pain, a fetus needs neurotransmitted hormones. In animals, these complex chemicals develop in the last third of gestation. We know of no evidence that humans are different."

suicide_circus

AtomicHorror wrote: »

To claim that giving birth in the absence of choice is taking responsibility is pure nonsense.

Yes you're probably right

Neyite

....... wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Well, closer to 60 in a lot of cases. Soz.

Up until then you have the menopause-baby roulette that very often caught our mammies and grannies unawares where mother nature decides to roid up your ovaries a bit and make you extra fertile for the craic.

Mr. CooL ICE

pone2012 wrote: »

Sorry no, all said things can be gained from additional activity.

If someone's primary motivation for intercourse is pleasure... there's a plethora of other ways to gain that without creating and involving a third party

Stop making excuses

I could only empathise with your viewpoint if you've never had sex, or if you've only ever had bad sex.

Otherwise, no. You are talking absolute rubbish.

gmisk

suicide_circus wrote: »

Haven't seen the hoodies tbh. Don't feel bad, if it's a no vote you can still wear your top.

Thanks...choice is a lovely thing isnt it....