The Dilemma of the Undecideds in the abortion referendum

Overheal

DarkScar wrote: »

We might. But why are you so insistent on it? Your argument is blown out of the water. Now you're just flailing for purchase as you think you can generate some line of attack. But goddam got no material to work with.
Awful isn't it?

I don’t see how my argument is “blown out of the water?” If it were, I would concede that a fetus is both alive and a person - that would really be quite the blowout. As it is however, I haven’t seen an argument that establishes that. Much less any argument that refutes my view that a fetus is neither alive or a sovereign person.

DarkScar

It's OK, you can keep it. You're not actually saying anything and you completely know it Overheal.
When there was an actual discussion here instead of your last few vacuous posts you got slaughtered.
Not interested in how long you can keep typing the same twaddle to be honest.
Ta ra.

Overheal

DarkScar wrote: »

So when you asked what "abortion on demand" is you wanted a 200 page technical reference? How convenient it allows you to pretend the explanation I gave you wan't accurate. Anybody might think it was but you had to make up some nonsense to make it look like it wasn't.

No need for a 200-page technical reference, just a clear definition for what you think abortion on demand is, from start to finish, thanks.

Overheal

DarkScar wrote: »

It's OK, you can keep it. You're not actually saying anything and you completely know it Overheal.
When there was an actual discussion here instead of your last few vacuous posts you got slaughtered.
Not interested in how long you can keep typing the same twaddle to be honest.
Ta ra.

You were never forced to agree with or attack my view. That was your choice to post a bunch of vacuous nonsense about fetuses in jars and elephants.

Do you consider the fetus to be a living being?

spacecoyote

DarkScar wrote: »

It's a fairly tedious ploy when somebody's been soundly beaten in an argument to take a few words completely out of context and chuck them out there as if they didn't make complete sense when they were originally used.
I could do the same with your posts, but, you know what, I'm not that petty.

I really hope the irony of that post wasnt lost on you because it's so damn delicious!!!! I actually laughed out loud on the luas & got a few strange looks when I read it.

For reasons beyond comprehension Overheal, Arthur etc... have persisted with their back & forth with you. For every argument youve attempted to make they've offered clarifications & answers whilst you appear to be spending all your posts attempting verbal gymnastics to catch people out in a technicality of grammar or on an arbitrary term or definition.

I'm guessing at this stage that youre purely a troll because you're not really offering anything to the discussion.

You claim you support abortion up to 20 weeks, but are going to vote NO for no real reason other than "I'll vote YES at some later date" as if this is the start of our annual abortion vote cycle.

How anyone can claim they support abortion & vote NO is beyond my comprehension

gmisk

Yes vote done looking fairly busy already hopefully a good sign of high turnout in Dublin

JaMarcus

I submitted my RFA2 form on the 8th May (by e-mail, I called them first to confirm they accepted e-mail submissions) to change my address and go on the supplemental register. Got up early to vote in my local polling station, and my name is nowhere to be found on their register :mad:

Overheal

JaMarcus wrote: »

I submitted my RFA2 form on the 8th May (by e-mail, I called them first to confirm they accepted e-mail submissions) to change my address and go on the supplemental register. Got up early to vote in my local polling station, and my name is nowhere to be found on their register :mad:

Can you go to the polling station of your last address then?

fergus1001

JaMarcus wrote:

I submitted my RFA2 form on the 8th May (by e-mail, I called them first to confirm they accepted e-mail submissions) to change my address and go on the supplemental register. Got up early to vote in my local polling station, and my name is nowhere to be found on their register

we're you voting yes or no ?

JaMarcus

Overheal wrote: »

Can you go to the polling station of your last address then?

It's in a different county, down the country. Can't head down today.

fergus1001 wrote: »

we're you voting yes or no ?

Yes.

AnneFrank

I just cast my vote.
No, choose life.

Overheal

JaMarcus wrote: »

It's in a different county, down the country. Can't head down today.

Yes.

Nothing the polling station could do?

How did you vote in the last referendum

JaMarcus

Overheal wrote: »

Nothing the polling station could do?

How did you vote in the last referendum

No, they just gave me a phone number to call. So I'm waiting until 9am to call and see if there's anything that can be done.

I didn't vote last time around.

zeebre12

LeinsterDub wrote: »

I'm voting YES. I don't have an issue with the abortion legislation proposed. My position is as plain as day. It's a women's choice, a fetus becomes human some where after 16 weeks, I fully support the proposed legislation.


Your voting no but can't explain why.

So you have no problem for a woman to have an abortion at 15 weeks then? It's not life?

cournioni

Made my decision to vote No after a lot of thought. Not ideal but I feel that there have to be other solutions to protecting the mothers health without threatening the life of other unborn by Repeal of the 8th.

The key factor in my decision is that I absolutely disagree with Abortion on Demand. Not acceptable to deliberately kill inside or outside of the womb.

Overheal

zeebre12 wrote: »

So you have no problem for a woman to have an abortion at 15 weeks then? It's not life?

Seems like you’re begging the question: how do you define life in this situation? When in your view does the life of the unborn begin?

Overheal

cournioni wrote: »

Made my decision to vote No after a lot of thought. Not ideal but I feel that there have to be other solutions to protecting the mothers health without threatening the life of other unborn by Repeal of the 8th.

The key factor in my decision is that I absolutely disagree with Abortion on Demand.

Abortion on Demand is what, exactly? There are no waiting periods? Doctors have no right of refusal?

spacecoyote

cournioni wrote: »

Made my decision to vote No after a lot of thought. Not ideal but I feel that there have to be other solutions to protecting the mothers health without threatening the life of other unborn by Repeal of the 8th.

The key factor in my decision is that I absolutely disagree with Abortion on Demand.

You do know that a NO vote changes nothing & maintains the status quo, so you're offering no route to protect a mothers life outside of todays laws.

Seems like the NO campaigns branding was effective with the "on Demand" badge

fergus1001

JaMarcus wrote:

Yes.

you can have one of my polling cards in that case !

blanch152

cournioni wrote: »

Made my decision to vote No after a lot of thought. Not ideal but I feel that there have to be other solutions to protecting the mothers health without threatening the life of other unborn by Repeal of the 8th.

The key factor in my decision is that I absolutely disagree with Abortion on Demand. Not acceptable to deliberately kill inside or outside of the womb.

A very irrational decision.

There is no way under the current Constitutional provision to protect the health of the woman. It is complete spin and lies from the NO camp to suggest otherwise. Neither is there a chance of another referendum for 15 years if this one is defeated, so your daughters, sisters, nieces and their friends will run the risk of being the next Savita if this referendum is defeated.

If the referendum is passed, there is the possibility of the Government's legislative proposals being defeated by a combination of SF, FF, rural Independents and FG rebels and a more restrictive regime being put in place. That is by far the best chance of you getting what you seek, so the only rational logical decision for you is to vote YES.

blanch152

cournioni wrote: »

I absolutely disagree with Abortion on Demand. .

Do you honestly believe that women are going to rock up to their doctors and say "Hey, kill the baby inside me"?

This is a difficult decision for any women and the idea that they would take it lightly is a misogynist insult.

cournioni

spacecoyote wrote: »

You do know that a NO vote changes nothing & maintains the status quo, so you're offering no route to protect a mothers life outside of todays laws.

Seems like the NO campaigns branding was effective with the "on Demand" badge

I am fully aware of what I am voting for thank you. I am far from happy with the options available to me. Status quo isn’t good, but neither is the alternative.

A Yes vote does not do enough to protect the unborn. I don’t want any part in the killing of a healthy unborn.

Chips Lovell

@Overheal and DarkScar. Don't post in this thread again. Take your spat to PM if you really want to carry on. We don't have time to be dealing with all the reported posts from both of you.

Everyone else, be nice.

bleary

A no vote for other alternatives is equivalent to a no vote for abolishing the Senate. All the incumbents were so keen to reform as long as they were fighting for the status quo.

Nothing has happened since that vote. It will be the same if no vote wins today. A no vote means we are all grand with the current situation. If you want any change vote yes.

fergus1001

I'm expecting a higher turn out now because the weather is so nice this is bad news for the no side as it will bring out the young vote

Zubeneschamali

cournioni wrote: »

Made my decision to vote No after a lot of thought.

The key factor in my decision is that I absolutely disagree with Abortion on Demand.

Not sure why that took any thought - abortion without restriction up to 12 weeks has been the proposal since before the referendum was even announced.

I am pleased with this, since it sidestepped most of the No campaigns nonsense completely. They seem to have been preparing for a "hard cases" referendum, and were caught on the hop by the straightforward nature of the citizen's assembly proposal.

antiskeptic

cournioni wrote: »

Made my decision to vote No after a lot of thought. Not ideal but I feel that there have to be other solutions to protecting the mothers health without threatening the life of other unborn by Repeal of the 8th.

The key factor in my decision is that I absolutely disagree with Abortion on Demand. Not acceptable to deliberately kill inside or outside of the womb.

Your dilemma is the dilemma of the majority.

Some will come down Yes, some like you, No.

Neither has been given a choice to legislate as the country wants to legislate. Leo and Simon have sold them a pup

oscarBravo

antiskeptic wrote: »

Neither has been given a choice to legislate as the country wants to legislate.

The country doesn't legislate. The Oireachtas legislates.

antiskeptic

fergus1001 wrote: »

I'm expecting a higher turn out now because the weather is so nice this is bad news for the no side as it will bring out the young vote

Fake news withdrawn

Zubeneschamali

antiskeptic wrote: »

Your dilemma is the dilemma of the majority.

Polling back as far as January said more people agreed with the 12 week proposal than disagreed.