Peat bedding for cattle

Birdnuts

Base price wrote: »

What stage do you cut it at, when the seed is soft and milky or when the stalk is still green. It would be a idea to put in if you wanted to reseed a field afterwards.

Its recommended once the grain has gone beyond the "soft cheddar" stage. You can undersow it with grass too as it really "bulks up" the resulting silage

Base price

Birdnuts wrote: »

Its recommended once the grain has gone beyond the "soft cheddar" stage. You can undersow it with grass too as it really "bulks up" the resulting silage

What rate to the acre for the oat seeds and what time of the year is recommended. We have about three and a half acres that needs reseeding and I might try it this year. I assume you mow, bale and wrap as normal. Although I think I heard someone saying that you should put on extra wrap for whole crop.

Say my name

Base price wrote: »

Shorthorn ??

He said that. Yep.

wrangler

Base price wrote: »

What rate to the acre for the oat seeds and what time of the year is recommended. We have about three and a half acres that needs reseeding and I might try it this year. I assume you mow, bale and wrap as normal. Although I think I heard someone saying that you should put on extra wrap for whole crop.

rats and birds will break you hearts, both in the stack and feeding, I had it well into a silage pit and the rats burrowed in to the pit,
If you're using a diet feeder anyway I supposed you're used to the birds when feedin

Base price

Say my name wrote: »

He said that. Yep.

I only watched the short video in the forest. At least I can draft in one or two if the auld fiat gives up the ghost

Birdnuts

Base price wrote: »

What rate to the acre for the oat seeds and what time of the year is recommended. We have about three and a half acres that needs reseeding and I might try it this year. I assume you mow, bale and wrap as normal. Although I think I heard someone saying that you should put on extra wrap for whole crop.

I intend to put mine in in early April at a rate of 40kg/ac - I guess sowing dates depend on your own local climate and soil. I suspect it will be a learning curve but other folks I know who have done it has saved on feed bills and overcoming issues with poor quality silage in wet/cool summers. Good thing about oats too is that it naturally suppresses weed growth which makes it easier to establish versus other grain

Sorry - should have mentioned that rate is for a vetch or grass oat mix for silage wholecrop. For a pure oat wholecrop you would probably go with something closer to 70kg

Reggie.

Base price wrote: »

What rate to the acre for the oat seeds and what time of the year is recommended. We have about three and a half acres that needs reseeding and I might try it this year. I assume you mow, bale and wrap as normal. Although I think I heard someone saying that you should put on extra wrap for whole crop.

Just watch as if you mow grass that early after sowing you might kill the rye grass

K.G.

K.G. wrote: »

What would be the numbers on the wood chip solution.how many acres,time frame,labour requirement

Dr Google will provide much of that information. Willow will be my tree of choice as it grows fast and can be coppiced. The moral of the tale is straw will become more expensive and where I'm located that's not a feasible option, peat won't be an option, so either grow or buy ones own wood based bedding material or go slats which I'm not interested in.

Reggie.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Dr Google will provide much of that information. Willow will be my tree of choice as it grows fast and can be coppiced. The moral of the tale is straw will become more expensive and where I'm located that's not a feasible option, peat won't be an option, so either grow or buy ones own wood based bedding material or go slats which I'm not interested in.

Alot more cattle gonna be outwintered I think

Reggie.

Reggie. wrote: »

Alot more cattle gonna be outwintered I think

A lot more farms will outwinter, whether there'll be the same number of cattle is questionable

I won't make a start on it this year but another tree related idea I'm interested in is "living barns".

Base price

Reggie. wrote: »

Just watch as if you mow grass that early after sowing you might kill the rye grass

If we do go ahead with it we would sow a traditional meadow grass mix with clover as it would be the type of grass on the farm.
Edit - A traditional meadow grass mix probably wouldn't work as well as rye grass.

endainoz

[Deleted User] wrote: »

A lot more farms will outwinter, whether there'll be the same number of cattle is questionable

I won't make a start on it this year but another tree related idea I'm interested in is "living barns".

Oh yeah I've heard of those, would it be a combination of agroforestry, possibly mixed with bale grazing? This will breed innovation for sure, hopefully more of a focus on rare smaller breeds too.

K.G.

Deleted User wrote: »

Dr Google will provide much of that information. Willow will be my tree of choice as it grows fast and can be coppiced. The moral of the tale is straw will become more expensive and where I'm located that's not a feasible option, peat won't be an option, so either grow or buy ones own wood based bedding material or go slats which I'm not interested in.

Had a look and it looks like a 5 year thing with nothing the first year.by the look of it harvesting you wont have bedding until year 3 and you need a header for harvester.i suspect you need a shed to store from harvest to use as its harvested in wibter months and needs to dry so its the winter after you will have it.dont know the cost of planting it but it needs sprays/fertiliser but could usr slurry in the spring.anybody have experience of what is like as bedding.my gut is telling me its a complete non runner as its too long a time frame for payback and at least if you planted cerals the equipment is readily available to do it.only problem is cerals are very tight and the irish climate is nitght mareish in 70 %of the country for growing cereals. There was alot of miscanthus etc planted,willows in the past that has never been commercially harvested

Base price

K.G. wrote: »

Had a look and it looks like a 5 year thing with nothing the first year.by the look of it harvesting you wont have bedding until year 3 and you need a header for harvester.i suspect you need a shed to store from harvest to use as its harvested in wibter months and needs to dry so its the winter after you will have it.dont know the cost of planting it but it needs sprays/fertiliser but could usr slurry in the spring.anybody have experience of what is like as bedding.my gut is telling me its a complete non runner as its too long a time frame for payback and at least if you planted cerals the equipment is readily available to do it.only problem is cerals are very tight and the irish climate is nitght mareish in 70 %of the country for growing cereals. There was alot of miscanthus etc planted,willows in the past that has never been commercially harvested

I'd be concerned about how it is dried and stored cause unless it's dried quickly then it's going to naturally heat and allow fungus to grow. Those fungi will cause respiratory problems when it's used as bedding under cattle.

endainoz

endainoz wrote: »

Oh yeah I've heard of those, would it be a combination of agroforestry, possibly mixed with bale grazing? This will breed innovation for sure, hopefully more of a focus on rare smaller breeds too.

My understanding is that a living barn would be thicker than agroforestry, afaik a living barn is more for snow, but certainly any shelter would be better than none.

Bale grazing worked great here last year, flock had full access to the bales in the field, along with some crystalyx buckets. No roaring when you check on them, no stress, no labour, no pushing & shoving at troughs, merchant never saw me :pac: Two days moving hay fed them all Winter.

Adapted breeds will do better out too as you say.

_Brian

Will we see miscanthus becoming more mainstream for bedding ??

https://www.donedeal.ie/farmproduce-for-sale/straw-peat-poor-quality-use-something-better/26359162

Never used it but everything is on the table as straw rises in cost..

endainoz

_Brian wrote: »

Will we see miscanthus becoming more mainstream for bedding ??

https://www.donedeal.ie/farmproduce-for-sale/straw-peat-poor-quality-use-something-better/26359162

Never used it but everything is on the table as straw rises in cost..

Looks decent stuff alright, but not much better absorbing then straw in fairness.

Say my name

endainoz wrote: »

Looks decent stuff alright, but not much better absorbing then straw in fairness.

You'd have to treat it the very same as woodchip. It is basically bamboo after all.
In that you'd need it chopped as fine as possible and then have as deep a bed as possible.
There's not many growers left in the country. Most bales are relics from the miscanthus scheme before.

K.G.

K.G. wrote: »

Had a look and it looks like a 5 year thing with nothing the first year.by the look of it harvesting you wont have bedding until year 3 and you need a header for harvester.i suspect you need a shed to store from harvest to use as its harvested in wibter months and needs to dry so its the winter after you will have it.dont know the cost of planting it but it needs sprays/fertiliser but could usr slurry in the spring.

Rome wasn't built in a day. Willow will grow on my land without the need for all the inputs and expensive equipment listed. It'll also regrow naturally without any work from me. A small shed with good airflow would suffice to store it, the limbs could be dried whole in a similar set up before chipping.

K.G.

Deleted User wrote: »

Rome wasn't built in a day. Willow will grow on my land without the need for all the inputs and expensive equipment listed. It'll also regrow naturally without any work from me. A small shed with good airflow would suffice to store it, the limbs could be dried whole in a similar set up before chipping.

How would you get it to the shed?

K.G.

K.G. wrote: »

How would you get it to the shed?

I'd strap it to my elephant :pac:

I'm looking for solutions, not problems, they're easily found.

endainoz

On the subject of peat....

https://www.westmeathindependent.ie/2021/01/30/the-misguided-theory-of-rewetting-the-bogs/

For some reason this came up as a suggested article for me to read. Never seen such biased one sidedness. Sounds like a bitter old man with a serious vendetta again green policy.

NcdJd

The current BNM exercise is the switching from brown energy to green. The rewetting exercise only accounts for a small proportion of BNM's 125000 acres land holding. This has nothing to do with conservation of bogs in my opinion.

When the millions of tonnes of cement are poured to create the bases for their wind farms and the roadways are created the bogs will be destroyed forever. Local jobs will be few in maintaining these windfarms.

Classic greenwashing that alot of people are getting caught up with. Even Eamonn Ryan said it on radio last week it was to do with the transition to green energy.

Edit, I wonder will the lads objecting to all the forestry felling licences be a problem for BNM over the coming years.

Mrsmum

I just saw this thread and coincidentally I was stopped at traffic lights yesterday and in front of me was an open backed truck loaded up with big bales of paper bedding. Never knew that was a thing.

wrangler

endainoz wrote: »

On the subject of peat....

https://www.westmeathindependent.ie/2021/01/30/the-misguided-theory-of-rewetting-the-bogs/

For some reason this came up as a suggested article for me to read. Never seen such biased one sidedness. Sounds like a bitter old man with a serious vendetta again green policy.

I put it up elsewhere, environmentalists are like headless chickhens this has just emphasised how stupid they are, I wouldn't think micheal is a headless environmentalist but like myself we live close to this stupidity . The picture of the dirty smutty powerstation charging the electric bike should not be ignored because we have no safe alternative.
I will respect the environment when the environmentalists do, The environment is too important now to be left in control of the public servants in the department of the environment The performance of the public servants in the board of works maintaining the river should be testament to that

minerleague

nilhg wrote: »

So no one seems to be up for growing a few acres of barley or oats or wheat and keeping the straw for bedding? Loads of options for using the grain on farm as well. I'm sure most farms would have grown some in the past, just ask the older generations, great help to the local wildlife and biodiversity as well.

Thought of this often but planting and harvesting in wet conditions on heavy land wouldn't suit. Read somewhere that typical beef farm grows only half amount of grass as more intensive farms, anyone make haylage for bedding? if straw gets too dear?

NcdJd

Say my name wrote: »

You'd have to treat it the very same as woodchip. It is basically bamboo after all.
In that you'd need it chopped as fine as possible and then have as deep a bed as possible.
There's not many growers left in the country. Most bales are relics from the miscanthus scheme before.

It's crazy to think that people are now contemplating using miscanthus for bedding when a crop of wheat, oats or barley provides both feed / food, straw and if the stubble is left over the winter, a food lifeline for declining bird species. Where will all this end I wonder.

Say my name

NcdJd wrote: »

It's crazy to think that people are now contemplating using miscanthus for beding when a crop of wheat, oats or barley provides both feed / food, straw and if the ground is left idle over the winter, a food lifeline for declining bird species. Where will all this end I wonder.

It'll end up only for farms over 200 acres as mixed.
Those livestock below will be slats and cubicles (if they want to stay full time or at a figure where they can keep as much on farm.)

I've seen ricks of straw left out on fields over a Euro difference between people.

It's every man or woman for themselves.

Miscanthus is planted on game estates.

The livestock farmers that paid thousands for straw in the past just may double those figures or look for alternatives.
Whatever works economically and farm dependent.

Own 39 acres here the rest rented.
If I had to grow my own it'd take 30 acres for straw. I'd have to take out another 30 acres for leasing as if I had to grow it on my own farmed ground the figures of livestock I'd be left with would mean dairy farming wouldn't be financially and labour wise worthwhile. I'm full time at the moment always have been and paid 3 - 4k /year on straw off field and drew in myself every year.
It does look like it'll double in price now.
So it looks to be priced itself out of the market for me.
I've a few choices. Put in cubicles. I have the tanks.
Continue as is and look for extra land. Competing with solar farmers who pay over 300 for tillage land and work even harder and stretch myself possibly into debt and disaster.
Or try and see about deep living beds made from woodchip. Which is totally alien here and not tried and trusted on groundlevel and could be spending aimlessly on nonsense too.

Isn't life just crazy anyway ncdjd!!

NcdJd

Say my name wrote: »

It'll end up only for farms over 200 acres as mixed.
Those livestock below will be slats and cubicles (if they want to stay full time or at a figure where they can keep as much on farm.)

I've seen ricks of straw left out on fields over a Euro difference between people.

It's every man or woman for themselves.

Miscanthus is planted on game estates.

The livestock farmers that paid thousands for straw in the past just may double those figures or look for alternatives.
Whatever works economically and farm dependent.

Own 39 acres here the rest rented.
If I had to grow my own it'd take 30 acres for straw. I'd have to take out another 30 acres for leasing as if I had to grow it on my own farmed ground the figures of livestock I'd be left with would mean dairy farming wouldn't be financially and labour wise worthwhile. I'm full time at the moment always have been and paid 3 - 4k /year on straw off field and drew in myself every year.
It does look like it'll double in price now.
So it looks to be priced itself out of the market for me.
I've a few choices. Put in cubicles. I have the tanks.
Continue as is and look for extra land. Competing with solar farmers who pay over 300 for tillage land and work even harder and stretch myself possibly into debt and disaster.
Or try and see about deep living beds made from woodchip. Which is totally alien here and not tried and trusted on groundlevel and could be spending aimlessly on nonsense too.

Isn't life just crazy anyway ncdjd!!

Ha yes it is.

So instead of getting that lovely manure after selling it and passing it through the livestock farmer it's just ploughed into the ground. Missing out on all that nice cow dung.

Doesn't make sense 😕

Anyway my own view for what it's worth is I can't see any tillage farmer committing to this. Turning away people that have bought their straw for years on a scheme that may or may not be available this time next year.

Say my name

NcdJd wrote: »

Ha yes it is.

So instead of getting that lovely manure after selling it and passing it through the livestock farmer it's just ploughed into the ground. Missing out on all that nice cow dung.

Doesn't make sense 😕

Anyway my own view for what it's worth is I can't see any tillage farmer committing to this. Turning away people that have bought their straw for years on a scheme that may or may not be available this time next year.

It's straw plus whatever spray is sprayed on beforehand.
It's manure after it's mixed with dung that came from the silage fields.

Even if 10% of growers opt in it sets a floor and base price for the rest.
Never heard round these parts but apparently straw has been imported from the UK these past few years.
That with brexit could be finished too.

Anyway it's no harm make contingency plans..be foolish not to explore.