Peat bedding for cattle

Reggie.

wrangler wrote: »

I see our mutual friend drawing it with the big forage wagon

He isnt

wrangler

Reggie. wrote: »

He isnt

He is, I saw it myself and thought he couldn't be , but he's drawing four loads a day past a friends house from derrinboy, near Kilcormac, two in the wagon and two in a trailer. So it's confirmed

Reggie.

wrangler wrote: »

He is, I saw it myself and thought he couldn't be , but he's drawing four loads a day past a friends house from derrinboy, near Kilcormac, two in the wagon and two in a trailer. So it's confirmed

He will wreck the wagon. The other man in kells that does it, his wagons are in rough shape from hauling it

wrangler

Reggie. wrote: »

He will wreck the wagon. The other man in kells that does it, his wagons are in rough shape from hauling it

I wouldn't think the tyres are good road tyres either, they look low pressure... maybe they're alright

Reggie.

wrangler wrote: »

I wouldn't think the tyres are good road tyres either, they look low pressure... maybe they're alright

Sure they would be the best in the country

K.G.

If this straw thing get going and with slurry spreading becoming as hard to do as making hay,is peat for bedding relatively carbon neutral when its not being burned.

Reggie.

K.G. wrote: »

If this straw thing get going and with slurry spreading becoming as hard to do as making hay,is peat for bedding relatively carbon neutral when its not being burned.

They say it is but its nearly impossible to get pest now as BNM has shut down

K.G.

Reggie. wrote: »

They say it is but its nearly impossible to get pest now as BNM has shut down

You were shifting some of it were you?.surely the gear and the know how is there still but maybe authorisation and access to bogs is the problem. Maybe the economics dont stack up either.seemed to work well for some lads and would think it would be a great addition to alot of farms soils

_Brian

It’s the extraction of the peat that’s as damaging as using it.

Bogs drained release their stored carbon making them nett emitters instead of consumers of carbon.

So you can’t just look at the peat in a trailer as a product and say it’s neutral to bed with it and spread it. The damage is being done to get it into the trailer.

Peat isn’t and can’t be a sustainable product for anything except left in place in a bog.

Reggie.

K.G. wrote: »

You were shifting some of it were you?.surely the gear and the know how is there still but maybe authorisation and access to bogs is the problem. Maybe the economics dont stack up either.seemed to work well for some lads and would think it would be a great addition to alot of farms soils

Well atm the talk is that all the equipment is being shipped to Norway to harvest the peat there and ship it back to dundalk. I seen the carriages getting loaded onto trucks myself. Pure madness imo.

At lot of peat here was shipped to uk every year. Not sure of the volumes but it's a safe bet it was nearly more than the domestic market was using.

A local firm here had 8 drivers and trucks on full time hauling container loads to the docks daily

Reggie.

_Brian wrote: »

It’s the extraction of the peat that’s as damaging as using it.

Bogs drained release their stored carbon making them nett emitters instead of consumers of carbon.

So you can’t just look at the peat in a trailer as a product and say it’s neutral to bed with it and spread it. The damage is being done to get it into the trailer.

Peat isn’t and can’t be a sustainable product for anything except left in place in a bog.

Not looking for a argument brian but tbh the green agenda is getting out of control.

Ireland as a whole contributes something like .1% of total global carbon. Now where in the name of god is stopping the peat going to save the planet. Sure if we were going to make a difference why harvest it elsewhere and ship it back to ireland. I bet I run of them large container ships used more fuel than BNM over many months.

I'd be all for cutting it back to domestic use only and no exports if it makes the greens feel better. The loss of jobs in the Midlands is going to be quite substantial. In the 1000s. That's a bigger disaster to the rural ireland.

The last few decades has seen the beet industry, many army and garda bks close in rural ireland and now the peat. It's like a non stop assault on the countryside. You would think with the way the covid is that the government would try to keep irish companies going and have ourselves self sufficient but no once again as a country we will be at the mercy of fluctuating markets as we are an island.

This isn't more for my great love of peat. Just the mind boggling stupidity and short sightedness of our political crowd who once again show that nothing matters outside the pale

wrangler

Reggie. wrote: »

Not looking for a argument brian but tbh the green agenda is getting out of control.

Ireland as a whole contributes something like .1% of total global carbon. Now where in the name of god is stopping the peat going to save the planet. Sure if we were going to make a difference why harvest it elsewhere and ship it back to ireland. I bet I run of them large container ships used more fuel than BNM over many months.

I'd be all for cutting it back to domestic use only and no exports if it makes the greens feel better. The loss of jobs in the Midlands is going to be quite substantial. In the 1000s. That's a bigger disaster to the rural ireland.

The last few decades has seen the beet industry, many army and garda bks close in rural ireland and now the peat. It's like a non stop assault on the countryside. You would think with the way the covid is that the government would try to keep irish companies going and have ourselves self sufficient but no once again as a country we will be at the mercy of fluctuating markets as we are an island.

This isn't more for my great love of peat. Just the mind boggling stupidity and short sightedness of our political crowd who once again show that nothing matters outside the pale

Agreed, This is public service pulling the ladder up again, they're sitting there insulated from the real world and f..k everyone else. Public service workers not taking their turns for vaccinations, jumping the queue, is the lowest of teh low and no more than I'd expect.
STOPPING THE PEAT WORKERS HERE AND LETTING IT GO ON IN OTHER COUNTRIES IS THE PITS

endainoz

Reggie. wrote: »

Not looking for a argument brian but tbh the green agenda is getting out of control.

Ireland as a whole contributes something like .1% of total global carbon. Now where in the name of god is stopping the peat going to save the planet. Sure if we were going to make a difference why harvest it elsewhere and ship it back to ireland. I bet I run of them large container ships used more fuel than BNM over many months.

I'd be all for cutting it back to domestic use only and no exports if it makes the greens feel better. The loss of jobs in the Midlands is going to be quite substantial. In the 1000s. That's a bigger disaster to the rural ireland.

The last few decades has seen the beet industry, many army and garda bks close in rural ireland and now the peat. It's like a non stop assault on the countryside. You would think with the way the covid is that the government would try to keep irish companies going and have ourselves self sufficient but no once again as a country we will be at the mercy of fluctuating markets as we are an island.

This isn't more for my great love of peat. Just the mind boggling stupidity and short sightedness of our political crowd who once again show that nothing matters outside the pale

Not looking for an argument either Reggie but as Brian said its the extraction that causes the massive damage. We can't use the attitude that were such a small country that it wouldn't make any difference when it suits us either.

As I had said before I did use peat for bedding in my first year of organic conversion (as it was allowed for that single year due to a sever straw shortage). It's by far the best thing you can put under animals in a bedded area. Once it's laid in thick enough, (About a foot deep). Theres a lot of dust in the beginning and if your water troughs are lowish to the ground like mine, there is a chance of your water getting nearly black from all the peat. But once you empty the water a few times and let the peat settle the cattle really take to it.

I don't know of any other bedding you could leave under animals without having to change it for such a long time. No cases of scour in calves or any pathogens that you'd normally find in straw. Animals were very clean with it too.

With all that being said, I was only allowed to use it for one season and have been using straw with all it's added hardships since. I could understand why I wasn't allowed to use it seen as I would be putting it out on the ground again as fym. But once I realized the massive carbon sinks our bogs are, it made sense.

I do fear for the rural job market for sure, particularly an area like the midlands that relies on it so much. Bord na Mona seem to have a plan to make loads of other jobs in green energy, I suppose we'll have to wait and see if they do or not.

jaymla627

Reggie. wrote: »

Not looking for a argument brian but tbh the green agenda is getting out of control.

Ireland as a whole contributes something like .1% of total global carbon. Now where in the name of god is stopping the peat going to save the planet. Sure if we were going to make a difference why harvest it elsewhere and ship it back to ireland. I bet I run of them large container ships used more fuel than BNM over many months.

I'd be all for cutting it back to domestic use only and no exports if it makes the greens feel better. The loss of jobs in the Midlands is going to be quite substantial. In the 1000s. That's a bigger disaster to the rural ireland.

The last few decades has seen the beet industry, many army and garda bks close in rural ireland and now the peat. It's like a non stop assault on the countryside. You would think with the way the covid is that the government would try to keep irish companies going and have ourselves self sufficient but no once again as a country we will be at the mercy of fluctuating markets as we are an island.

This isn't more for my great love of peat. Just the mind boggling stupidity and short sightedness of our political crowd who once again show that nothing matters outside the pale

If their was actual policies to mitigate the job losses with direct replacements in whatever green bulls**t jobs they deem planet saving enough then fair enough, bit their isn't any coherent policy our anything in the pipeline that will replace the jobs been lost, then you have the uproar over locals objecting to green energy be it windmills/ad plants etc that then usually don't go ahead what's the end game in all of this god knows but destroying irelands only remaining primary industries on the hope the Intel/apple tax take will be a never ending source of revenue is a fool's errand

_Brian

Continuing to extract the peat is destroying bogs that should be storing carbon, a haven for biodiversity and essential areas to mitigate flooding.

It’s not a sustainable practice it’s a destructive one that will in time have to stop anyway when the peat is exhausted. Then you have neither a big or cheap bedding, just nothing.

I’ve said before I’d allow turf cutting on private bogs to continue, but with no mechanised equipment, spades and barrows just like the old days that people say they are entitled to continue.


I completely agree an opposing viewpoint doesn’t have to be an argument.

Reggie.

endainoz wrote: »

Not looking for an argument either Reggie but as Brian said its the extraction that causes the massive damage. We can't use the attitude that were such a small country that it wouldn't make any difference when it suits us either.

If thats the case what's the argument for hauling from 1000s of miles away as opposed to just down the road. I think the green agenda is used just to justify stupid decisions.

The peat will still be extracted just from a different location. So wheres the difference then as the world as a whole? The carbon situation worldwide will be worse off due to it having to be shipped across the sea so in essence this isn't saving anything like carbon or the planet its just making the carbon situation worse.

Someone somewhere is benefiting from this plan and it's being wrapped up in the "saving the planet" wrapping paper

Reggie.

_Brian wrote: »

Continuing to extract the peat is destroying bogs that should be storing carbon, a haven for biodiversity and essential areas to mitigate flooding.

It’s not a sustainable practice it’s a destructive one that will in time have to stop anyway when the peat is exhausted. Then you have neither a big or cheap bedding, just nothing.

I’ve said before I’d allow turf cutting on private bogs to continue, but with no mechanised equipment, spades and barrows just like the old days that people say they are entitled to continue.


I completely agree an opposing viewpoint doesn’t have to be an argument.

But explain then why stop harvesting here only to start somewhere else.

endainoz

Reggie. wrote: »

If thats the case what's the argument for hauling from 1000s of miles away as opposed to just down the road. I think the green agenda is used just to justify stupid decisions.

The peat will still be extracted just from a different location. So wheres the difference then as the world as a whole? The carbon situation worldwide will be worse off due to it having to be shipped across the sea so in essence this isn't saving anything like carbon or the planet its just making the carbon situation worse.

Someone somewhere is benefiting from this plan and it's being wrapped up in the "saving the planet" wrapping paper

Do you think we're going to importing our own peat on as large a scale as we're currently using it? I can see horticulture growers importing it alright, but nobody like BNM will be doing it to make briquettes.

Reggie.

endainoz wrote: »

Do you think we're going to importing our own peat on as large a scale as we're currently using it? I can see horticulture growers importing it alright, but nobody like BNM will be doing it to make briquettes.

Germany is and thier briquettes are being imported to fill the gap at present.

Also most was exported like I said so itll just be exported to england from Norway as opposed to us. Like I said before it should have been banned from export then at least local businesses would have an advantage.

The extra cost will just have a negative impact on the farming/ mushroom/ horticultural industry as a whole. Jobs will be threated and the public will have to swallow extra cost for goods as a result

endainoz

Reggie. wrote: »

Germany is and thier briquettes are being imported to fill the gap at present.

Also most was exported like I said so itll just be exported to england from Norway as opposed to us. Like I said before it should have been banned from export then at least local businesses would have an advantage.

The extra cost will just have a negative impact on the farming/ mushroom/ horticultural industry as a whole. Jobs will be threated and the public will have to swallow extra cost for goods as a result

Ah jaysus, I hadn't heard of the German stuff coming in. An EU wide ban of it will have to happen so. There is fair shortsightedness for horticulture for sure, but it will drive other methods of creating compost. There's is definitely a chance for people to start producing products like bio char mixed with animal dung on a larger scale to sell back to producers here.

I'm still hoping to use biochar and a base layer for my bedding for the next housing season and top it off with straw. As far as I know, nobody else is doing that currently.

Reggie.

endainoz wrote: »

Ah jaysus, I hadn't heard of the German stuff coming in. An EU wide ban of it will have to happen so. There is fair shortsightedness for horticulture for sure, but it will drive other methods of creating compost. There's is definitely a chance for people to start producing products like bio char mixed with animal dung on a larger scale to sell back to producers here.

I'm still hoping to use biochar and a base layer for my bedding for the next housing season and top it off with straw. As far as I know, nobody else is doing that currently.

I think the German stuff is mainly crushed poor grade coal. Supposed to be dirt as a fuel source

endainoz

Reggie. wrote: »

I think the German stuff is mainly crushed poor grade coal. Supposed to be dirt as a fuel source

If its technically char coal it could double as a bedding source though..... I have no idea like, I hadn't known about the German stuff until you told me. I had heard of German peat for growing alright, made by a crowd called Klassman, organic stuff. Much harder to source organic peat for growing in Ireland.

_Brian

Reggie. wrote: »

But explain then why stop harvesting here only to start somewhere else.

Because we can only do the right thing for ourselves. They are our bogs and our environment that we are destroying.

This is an example of government policy driving destructive practices on our ecology.

Reggie.

_Brian wrote: »

Because we can only do the right thing for ourselves.

This is an example of government policy driving destructive practices on our ecology.

But we are moving our equipment from ireland to norway to harvest there? Still us doing the harvesting.

_Brian

Reggie. wrote: »

But we are moving our equipment from ireland to norway to harvest there? Still us doing the harvesting.

Again amd I’m not intending to be rude, that’s just whataboutery really if everyone looks to the worst example and follows that we get into a down spiral and the whole thing goes to hell. We should be looking to best practice and doing our best to emulate that, the more that do that the better in the long term for everyone

We need to be making the right decisions even if they are the hard ones.

Similar to when we brought on a plastic bag levi, we were the only ones at the time, it was a great move and many many countries have followed us.

K.G.

Didn't realise the draining th e bogs on its own released carbon so that knocks bedding on the head.i just thought some guy might be able to do on their own as a business with the equipment available.

_Brian

_Brian wrote: »

We need to be making the right decisions even if they are the hard ones.

I'm going to take a swipe

If you look at blanket bog and the various archaeological digs there on, there have been entire walled field systems unearthed. Bogs are relatively* new.

I question the term "right decision" and I would insert "easy decision". Easy as in the people affected can't do much if anything against European or Government policy, they're simply stomped upon by the super/state.

The real culprit is fossil fuel sourced carbon, the burning of dead dinosaurs.

But, that would be an actual hard decision which would be unpopular with voters. It would also be unpopular with the very corporations that the Green Party are happy to give their own courts, through their decision to run away from doing something about the CETA deal when they're actually in a position to do so.

_Brian

Carbon is but one aspect of bog destruction by drainage and peat extraction.
Habitat loss and in areas the loss of water buffering has added to flooding.

It is interesting to see the myriad of arguments in favour of the destruction of a finite resource and natural habitat.

_Brian

_Brian wrote: »

Carbon is but one aspect of bog destruction by drainage and peat extraction.
Habitat loss and in areas the loss of water buffering has added to flooding.

It is interesting to see the myriad of arguments in favour of the destruction of a finite resource and natural habitat.

Nope, I'm calling out the difference between a right decision and an easy decision. There is zero pro rata distribution of the burden.

endainoz

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Nope, I'm calling out the difference between a right decision and an easy decision. There is zero pro rata distribution of the burden.

According to eco eye last week, they said burning peat released far more carbon that burning coal or oil for heating. Found that very suprising, would have always figured coal was the worst culprit.