strength level

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IrishPF Records and Standards
www.irishpowerliftingfederation.com/national-records-standards/

IPO / AIPO records
ipopowerlifting.ie/website/site/index.php/records/
IPO is untested and the AIPO section is drug tested.
AIPO has only been running just over a year so for some of the records there may have only been one athlete to compete in a Weightclass / Age group so will have the record by default.

Irish Drug Free Powerlifting Association (IDPFA)
http://www.idfpa.net/national-records

Irish Drug Free Powerlifting Federation (IDPFF) or I can't believe it's not the IDPFA
www.idfpf.com/records

I can't seem to find records for the GPC (Global Power Lifting Congress) - however; in many circles these records are not given much credence. There was only 20 odd lifters at their national championships in March.

There is a new federation set up (a fall out of the drama with the GPC earlier this year) - its the Southern Powerlifting Federation (an affiliate of the SPF from the US) .. they haven't had a competition yet - however it will be mainly old GPC lifters who move across.

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for those not too familiar there are also different lifting categories

RAW
This is bare knee and no wrist wraps - belt allowed

Classic RAW
Knee sleeves and wrist wraps allowed.
AIPO / IPO / GPC / SPF allow knee wraps

Equipped Single Ply
Single Ply Squat Suit - Bench Shirt - Deadlift Suit


Equipped Multi Ply
Multi Ply Squat Suit - Bench Shirt - Deadlift Suit

Also the AIPO/IPO/GPC/SPF use a monolift instead of a walk out squat rack for national championship and speciality bars.
Squatbar - 25KG and 32mm in thickness (it think); Deadlift bar - 7ft

GiftofGab

So the IDPFA record for 75kg Squat is 195kg...with some lads only squatting 141 kg?? Is that right?

A 195kg squat @ 75kg would only place you in the Exceptional category.

Alf Veedersane

GiftofGab wrote: »

So the IDPFA record for 75kg Squat is 195kg...with some lads only squatting 141 kg?? Is that right?

That 195 was by Adam Keane who then went on to squat 255ish.

The 141kg in the 75s there was in the M5 (Masters category....by someone aged 60-64.

Mellor

GiftofGab wrote: »

So the IDPFA record for 75kg Squat is 195kg...with some lads only squatting 141 kg?? Is that right?

A 195kg squat @ 75kg would only place you in the Exceptional category.

The lad only squatting 141kg is in the 60+ age group. So a bit harsh to be knocking him like that.
Also, some of those organisation are new, so the record books aren't fleshed out.
If you look at the IPO records. The 75kg squat record is 250kg raw (world class on the website above) and 320kg equipped (multi).

whippet

GiftofGab wrote: »

So the IDPFA record for 75kg Squat is 195kg...with some lads only squatting 141 kg?? Is that right?

A 195kg squat @ 75kg would only place you in the Exceptional category.

most of the better IDPFA lifters have moved on to the IPF and AIPO in recent years.

GiftofGab

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

That 195 was by Adam Keane who then went on to squat 255ish.

The 141kg in the 75s there was in the M5 (Masters category....by someone aged 60-64.

Cheers...That's incredible at 60 years old.

whippet

GiftofGab wrote: »

Cheers...That's incredible at 60 years old.

some masters lifters are very impressive .. there is one lad in the AIPO (tested) .. ex IDPFA who is in the Masters 3 (50-54 year old) with a 700 total.

Records have to be taken with a pinch of salt. There are so many weight / age / classes that means that only some are competitive.

The IPF have a minimum standard for records .. in otherwords; even if you are the only one in the category and no previous record stands you must hit a certain standard before the lift is classified as a record.

Mellor

Transform wrote: »

how would it vary from individual to individual as that statement only applies to people with 1-2 yrs of training behind them?

It varies very easily imo.
You said there's a point where strong is strong enough. That "point" is largely dependent on a persons reason for training. For example a rugby player has a higher strength goal than a tennis player.
I wouldn't have thought that was in anyway controversial

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Mellor wrote: »

It varies very easily imo.
You said there's a point where strong is strong enough. That "point" is largely dependent on a persons reason for training. For example a rugby player has a higher strength goal than a tennis player.
I wouldn't have thought that was in anyway controversial

plus if you are specifically strength training for strength based sports .. enough is never enough and you will always look to gain that extra bit. - hence why many lifters will go down the PED route as they feel they have hit their body's limit naturally and want to chase bigger numbers.

Although there is a worrying trend of young fellas (and ladies) who start out on PEDs as their local Gym Pharmacist tells them its the best thing to be doing

Transform

Mellor wrote: »

It varies very easily imo.
You said there's a point where strong is strong enough. That "point" is largely dependent on a persons reason for training. For example a rugby player has a higher strength goal than a tennis player.
I wouldn't have thought that was in anyway controversial

not saying its controversial at all just discussion

the relative strength of any athlete is dependent on whether strength is a limiting factor - in my experience it rarely is, typically in elite its lifestyle factors

geotrig

whippet wrote: »

Although there is a worrying trend of young fellas (and ladies) who start out on PEDs as their local Gym Pharmacist tells them its the best thing to be doing

What types of "peds" are they taking these days ? would some of the supps they take fall into this or a bit more hardcore per se , Im just curious as i dont know anyone that takes stuff other than protein shakes

Transform

whippet wrote: »

plus if you are specifically strength training for strength based sports .. enough is never enough and you will always look to gain that extra bit. - hence why many lifters will go down the PED route as they feel they have hit their body's limit naturally and want to chase bigger numbers.

Although there is a worrying trend of young fellas (and ladies) who start out on PEDs as their local Gym Pharmacist tells them its the best thing to be doing

most elite will use PEDs for enhanced recovery rates and most are just maintaining strength or gaining a very small amount of strength

You think Messi, Federer etc need to get stronger?

I do understand that this is a continuum

im not referring to lifters as thats highly specific - more general sports

Read Game Changer by fergus connolly

Yes steroid use in gyms is rife

whippet

geotrig wrote: »

What types of "peds" are they taking these days ? would some of the supps they take fall into this or a bit more hardcore per se , Im just curious as i dont know anyone that takes stuff other than protein shakes

the list is almost endless of what is being used .. from steroids, growth, insulin etc ... and its far more common than you would think.

Protein shakes are just another form of food

whippet

Transform wrote: »

You think Messi, Federer etc need to get stronger?

I do .. but to a point; with other sports there is a finer balance at elite level between strength - mobility - weight - speed etc .. while a big centre half will have a better use for strength than a lighting quick winger

geotrig

whippet wrote: »

the list is almost endless of what is being used .. from steroids, growth, insulin etc ... and its far more common than you would think.

Protein shakes are just another form of food

ta
yeah , I was just wondering what was being used outside of the age old roids and if like other countries we are seeing increases in insulin ,growth hormone etcs being used , i believe it probably is more widely used than I think i just havent seen it and glad to not be offered all that crapola. I understand protein is just food,so maybe i am seeing it being used in conjunction with it that .
I was just trying to get some perspective as to what is considered a ped's to gym goers as some supplements to me fit under these headings, while not flagged as banned substances offically ,although i've done little reading on them to be fair.

Mellor

Transform wrote: »

the relative strength of any athlete is dependent on whether strength is a limiting factor - in my experience it rarely is, typically in elite its lifestyle factors

"The" limiting factor suggests there's only one. Which is not really the case. And while strength may rarely be the most significant issue, I guess it's almost always a factor to some degree.
I can't think of a physical sport or activity where being magically stronger (without any trace off obviousky) is not an immediate benefit. Hence the widespread abuse and subsequent banning of PEDs.

For me it's not a question of whether strength is a benefit/limiting factor. It's about the effort vrs payback. As you get stronger, each 10% gain is harder earned. There comes a point when the hours needed to add that 10% are better spent on other training imo.

You think Messi, Federer etc need to get stronger

Need to get stronger? No, of course not. They are plenty strong, compete in highly skilled sports, where conditioning is a huge factor. That training time is better spent elsewhere. That is exactly the situation above.

But if they could get instantly stronger without sacrifice. Would they be better, yeah of course they would.

Powerhouse

whippet wrote: »

Protein shakes are just another form of food

Yeah, but in spirit they are closer to PEDs as people use them for a shortcut to achieve a benefit they would presumably struggle to achieve otherwise.

Blacktie.

Powerhouse wrote: »

Yeah, but in spirit they are closer to PEDs as people use them for a shortcut to achieve a benefit they would presumably struggle to achieve otherwise.

In this respect you can consider anything that is attempting to benefit yourself as a PED.

whippet

Powerhouse wrote: »

Yeah, but in spirit they are closer to PEDs as people use them for a shortcut to achieve a benefit they would presumably struggle to achieve otherwise.

The D in PED is for Drug .. protein isn’t a drug and it does not enhance performance whatsoever. It is a concentrated food group.

Growth hormones and steroids are actual performance enhancing substances

Alf Veedersane

Powerhouse wrote: »

Yeah, but in spirit they are closer to PEDs as people use them for a shortcut to achieve a benefit they would presumably struggle to achieve otherwise.

By the same logic, the tin of tuna I had at lunch is also similar to PEDs as it had a higher protein content than a typical shake and I might have struggled to achieve that level of protein by eating loaves of bread.



FFS.

Brian?

Powerhouse wrote: »

Yeah, but in spirit they are closer to PEDs as people use them for a shortcut to achieve a benefit they would presumably struggle to achieve otherwise.

They really aren't. Protein supplements are only a time saving short cut.

JayRoc

geotrig wrote: »

I was just trying to get some perspective as to what is considered a ped's

It's really just performance enhancing drugs that tend to be considered ped's.

COH

JayRoc wrote: »

It's really just performance enhancing drugs that tend to be considered ped's.

What about Protein Enhancing Drinks

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COH wrote: »

What about Protein Enhancing Drinks

Vitamin Water .. that’s just cheating on your multivitamins

Dtp1979

I’ve seen Mutant Anabolic Protein for sale.

Powerhouse

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

By the same logic, the tin of tuna I had at lunch is also similar to PEDs as it had a higher protein content than a typical shake and I might have struggled to achieve that level of protein by eating loaves of bread.

FFS.

Yes, that is totally logical although there is a difference with protein shakes in that the average person will eat tuna - generally speaking even though people describe protein shakes as 'food' the average person usually doesn't sit down and have it for a meal.

People use many things to enhance performance and they are similar to PEDs in that sense. I'm not saying it's terribly wrong to be eating tuna but my point is that the principle is the same. Some people go down the road of PEDs to achieve whatever gains they are looking for. It is unsurprising that many people do this given the natural tendency for everyone to do something to enhance performance. One is considered 'illegal' or unethical or whatever the other is not but the principle is not really any different. PEDs seem to me to be a very short step away from what is almost uniformly done anyway.

Powerhouse

whippet wrote: »

The D in PED is for Drug .. protein isn’t a drug and it does not enhance performance whatsoever. It is a concentrated food group.

Growth hormones and steroids are actual performance enhancing substances

Never said protein was a drug, just that people taking protein shakes are presumably doing so to achieve a benefit they wouldn't otherwise achieve in their normal diet. This benefit is usually associated with 'performance' - as in helping to optimise the effects of resistance training. People do loads of things which they clearly believe are performance enhancing - if it's only picking the correct footwear. In that sense I believe that protein shakes are closer in spirit to PEDs than to food. That's all I am saying. Just my own view.

whippet

Powerhouse .. your logic is incorrect .. protein as a supplement is just another food ... it isn’t performance enhancing ... by your logic someone who steps up their training is similar to PED use .. as the extra training will give them an advantage

PEDs are chemicals which allow users improved performance ... you can take all the protein shakes in the world and it will only make you fat

Alf Veedersane

Powerhouse wrote: »

Never said protein was a drug, just that people taking protein shakes are presumably doing so to achieve a benefit they wouldn't otherwise achieve in their normal diet.

So if you did change your normal diet, are those foods PEDs as well?

PEDs generally tend to increase performance by boosting levels of substances to a degree that could not be achieved naturally. That's why people inject testosterone. All of the steak, sleep and sex in the world won't boost your natural testosterone production to anything like the level that an exogenous boost will.

Just as an FYI, smoothies aren't PEDs either even though they might increase the level of micronutrients someone gets.