Dublin Metrolink - future routes for next Metrolink

loco_scolo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121809696#Comment_121809696

https://www.citypopulation.de/en/ireland/dublin/

This link has a very useful density map of Dublin. The city is fairly evenly spread out in terms of density. Tallaght stands out as a denser area which could benefit from a Metro.

If a line cut across Ballymount, Cathal Da Brugha, Charlemont and Ringsend, it would connect areas with large development potential and interchange with the wider Metro network at Charlemont and Dart network at Grand Canal Dock.

But it's hard to see anywhere in the city that would justify expensive tunneling without a big trip generator like an airport or a Swords.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121809744#Comment_121809744

It is conflicting alright, but the published strategy seems relatively clear that the UCD-Sandyford line is dependent on Metrolink expansion, or at least the assessment of the options there, and ultimately that is the authoritative document.

spillit67

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121809774#Comment_121809774

This is a poor argument.

I pointed out before that I myself notionally lived “near” DART/Luas if someone asked me where I was from but in reality 25-30 mins from each by walking.

Where are you building the Luas line in the South West? Because I assure you, the majority will still not be “covered”.

It’s about points of interest and densities. Unfortunately the SW has very little between Tallaght and Dundrum.

Sandyford is probably the 3rd most important economic area of the country.

I do want somewhere to go SW, and a plan is there for a second Tallaght line that will loop into Knocklyon. I’d like for that to also get some kind of hook into UCD as well. But you’ll still have a lot of areas not covered so less of this “woe is me” stuff.

spillit67

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121809800#Comment_121809800

It will be totally irrational to spend money upgrading the existing Green Line capacity further and then also close it for four years.

But we’ll see. Need the Metrolink to actually start first.

Grassy Knoll

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121809774#Comment_121809774

Have you not heard about the plan for a mono rail ….

Consonata

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121809774#Comment_121809774

Problem with the south west is there isnt any natural corridor/alignment to follow that is near good densities/trip generators. The N11 goes through several and is 4 lanes at its narrowest and nearly 11 lanes at its widest (UCD flyover)

CoffeeImpala

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121809800#Comment_121809800

I've not watched the video but I'd read LRT2 as saying, in plain English, these are LUAS lines we might build but not if we've already provided Metro to that area.

So UCD-Sandyford line wouldn't be built if instead of doing the Green line metro they turned the TBM towards UCD. In the event of a green line upgrade, metro to the south-west, or no further metro delivery a UCD Luas remains on the table.

AngryLips

Can't they just do something cut-n-cover to the southwest?

Consonata

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121812332#Comment_121812332

Terenure/Harolds Cross/Rathgar/Kimmage is all dense suburbia, You would probably be knocking a significant amount of houses to do cut and cover out that direction

Sam Russell

Well I read that the TBM will be cleaned and stripped, with all parts removed by crane and HGV. Presumably the TBM can be reassembled and continue. Of course removing the spoil and feeding the required stuff to it is a problem.

However, once the TBM is in the ground, the whole plans south of SSG is open to anything they think might work. It just needs the nimby crowd to be faced with the actual choices without effecting the whole project.

tom1ie

So basically the update of the GL to metro standard would make the most sense but (and it’s a big but) to upgrade south of charlemont to metro standard we are looking at a 4 year closure.

In that case why not continue the tbm out towards rathmines and head on to Firhouse/ tallaght?

This solves the SW issue and still allows people to transfer from the GL to metro at charlemont.

It had no delay to the existing metrolink project, it’s just purely an extension and keeps the tbm cutting past charlemont.

Also there seems to be a head of steam building for just that. I got a flyer in the door from a local cllr and td who are hosting a meeting on march 2nd which will be pushing this idea.

salmocab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121813342#Comment_121813342

You can ignore the local push from politicians, that will have no sway in what happens they just want you to think they give a toss. We got one a few years back from Green Party lad with crayons criss crossing the city. He knew there’s no chance of what he’s pushing happening he just wanted people to think he was on it. They’ll be starting to ramp up for the next election now you can expect flyers in the door with things like Spring newsletter to make you think they do one every quarter when in fact they only do them when it’s getting time to remind people they exist.

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121813372#Comment_121813372

Ah yeah I get what your saying but the whole idea of extending metrolink to the SW makes sense considering the 4 year closure issue on the GL.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121813413#Comment_121813413

the "4 years" is a timespan for all partial closures. There'll be service on most of it most of the time.

citizen6

If the TBM continues south-west (or anywhere else), how do they get the spoil out once Metrolink is up and running?

Can they move it out at night if the Metro doesn't run 24 hours? Or are people proposing a new tunnel portal?

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121813481#Comment_121813481

How though? Metros are high floor, luas low floor, so what’s the plan for keeping the GL open while converting it to metro standard?

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121813532#Comment_121813532

There's no published plan; but you can convert it section by section North to South, with bus transfers between the remaining Luas section and the extended Metro section. They absolutely will not close the entire system for 4 years; although Michael McDowell wants people to believe that.

There could even be some extreme faffery involving having a slowly moving South section where one track is Luas and the other is Metro, as a platform is being converted to high floor / 1.5KVDC from low floor / 750VDC.

Basically you'd have start with taking one Luas platform at the first station (Ranelagh?) out of action to convert to Metro, running this section as single track. Once you have Metro capability on the second platform, you start running it there to allow people to swap over. You then take a Luas platform out at Beechwood for conversion.

Once you have one at Beechwood in running, you use that as the Luas<->Metro station and convert the second platform at Ranelagh to Metro.

Keeping pushing each system south by one station, one platform conversion at a time; always keeping a station that has one of each

This is ridiculously challenging from an engineering perspective and likely implausibly expensive as you need to split the power to each track to two different voltages, which may be beyond the space available in the substations.

Grassy Knoll

Im sure this has been covered before, but it bears repeating. The planned tunnel post Charlmont terminates just short of Ranelagh station to the ‘Rathmines side’. For this tunnel to tie in with the GL Beechwood is probably the earliest it can as Charleston Rd needs to be navigated where the current track is elevated over a busy road. At Beechwood, while anything is theoretically possible, IMHO I find it hard to,see from a logistical perspective how it could work due to the proximity to schools, houses, an embassy, vocal clientele etc due to the scale of the works, traffic etc in what are in effect tight village streets.Just after Alexandra College in Milltown the first open site emerges adjacent to the GL, could this be an option for the tie in?

At Ranelagh station across the street adjacent to the track is a small public park beside a small residential area (to the Donnybrook side). This represents the only reasonable ‘open’ area after the canal adjacent to the track, but I suppose this is not a runner for a tie in for a number of reasons and effectively has been ruled out by the track location.

My question is it either a GL tie in at Milltown or the (costly given the amount of tunnelling ) SW option if they decide another option ? That jumbo Grand Canal sewer pipe has a lot to answer for ..

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121813838#Comment_121813838

Yeah……carrying on the tbm to the SW would probably be a easier 😂

AngryLips

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121812735#Comment_121812735

I meant cut and cover through the main roads, not under houses.

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121813532#Comment_121813532

The ML uses a different power voltage so the O/H lines need to be changed in one go. The platform height can be changed with temporary structures that can be rebuilt in a permanent state in sequence. The St Raphaela's Rd can be done prior to the upgrade.

I would imagine the whole process could be done within a year if it was planned to be done quickly. If the plan is to tunnel under the existing line, that will add a lot to the time scale.

DumbBrunette

Wrong thread

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121814696#Comment_121814696

The issue is the OHL work though.

If you are upgrading to metro voltage you can’t have luas run on metro OHL voltage so the GL would have to close for this installation time.

Surely it makes more sense just to continue the TBM past charlemont (but obviously have charlemont as a luas GL/metro changeover station) and bring the metro out to new areas be that Dublin SW or wherever hasn’t got a luas/rail connection at the moment.

KrisW1001

I posted the engineering report into this earlier in the thread. Conversion needs a complete closure of the Green Line for 9 months. The work isn't hard if the line is closed. If you try to keep it open, then you could triple that estimate.

Prior to any conversion, the line would need to be broken south of Charlemont to allow a tunnel portal to be built between Metrolink and Green Line. This, and the construction of a new Charlemont station would take about three years.

In the days of Metro North and Metro South, the plan was to use trains that were compatible with Luas, so the conversion would have been a simpler job. But because the new Metrolink is an automated service, sharing with Luas infrastructure is not even possible. That's why different specifications were chosen: the Metrolink line is optimised for a high speed metro service.

tom1ie

So is a complete closure of the GL for 9 months politically acceptable and would the politicians/TII be able to sell this to the people who use the GL every day?

I wonder what measures could be put in place to provide alternative travel solutions during the 9 month closure?

Does it not make more sense just to leave the GL as is and carry on the TBM past charlemont and on to wherever?

All very interesting.

Consonata

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121815479#Comment_121815479

It's just much much more expensive, and it isn't clear it could go that would offer the most benefit. Linking with the GL more than doubles it's capacity, and means you can run higher frequency Luas services in the inner city core between Charlemont and Broombridge (and in future, Finglas)

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121815506#Comment_121815506

Agreed but it’s at least a 9 month closure of the GL.

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121815479#Comment_121815479

9 months is nothing really. I'd be fine with that

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121815581#Comment_121815581

Grand but would the rest of the people that use the GL every day be happy with that for AT LEAST 9 months?

While the country is supposedly swimming in money- why not just continue on the TBM?

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121815606#Comment_121815606

Carry the TBM to where?

I would think that south of SSG could be revisited with many new options open.