Dublin Metrolink - future routes for next Metrolink

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121860208#Comment_121860208

Broadly speaking, all the Luas stops would be converted to Metro. The distance between Luas stations on the Green line is already quite far for a tram line and more Metro like.

The exceptions would be where the Metrolink line connects to the Green line. For instance if it connects south of Beechwood, then Beehwood station and the other stations north of it would remain Luas stations on the Green line. so it would look like this:

• Metrolink Swords (via Beechwood) to Sandyford
• Luas Green Line Fingals to Beechwood

Note those are just an example, there are different options on how they connect the lines that might change the above (e.g. North or South of Beechwood, etc.).

For you at Dundrum, it would basically be a very nice upgrade to Metro.

DaBluBoi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121860366#Comment_121860366

What would happen to the Broombridge branch then? Would it turn into its own separate line?

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121860632#Comment_121860632

It would be Finglas-Beechwood.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121860632#Comment_121860632

Finglas is a northern extension from Broombridge, so it would still be there. Or if you prefer, Finglas - Broombridge - City Center - Beechwood

spillit67

Tunnelling is definitely a “waste” with light rail but shouldn’t be ruled out for some really short sections where you can unlock good connectivity.

To me we definitely need heavy rail going across the south city next. If that is along the South Circular Road, the Grand Canal or through the traditional DU route that’s fine with me. All routes to me “unlock” the city in ways that we will fine the Metrolink/DART+/Luas combo will in the north inner city.

The more I look personally I think either a SCR or Canal route is best, primarily because it can be sold to a large swathe of the Dublin population. The ability to be able to get from Docklands/GCD to Heuston in 10 mins would be a gamechanger for the brownfield sites of the city centre and no CBA will ever capture it adequately.

bk

Yes, I was just looking at the post 2042 Luas network, most of the new proposed new liens don't need a tunnel, however arguably there looks to be a need for perhaps one East to West Tunnel. Here waht the proposed lines look at:

• 2 Lines the UCD one and Knocklyon meet at Charelmont, where you either continue on the Green line or Switch to Metrolink, so obviously Metrolink tunnel already covers those.
• Clongriffin line looks to plug into the eastern end of the Red line. The eastern end of the Red line tends to be not to busy, so it should be able to handle it. Basically every second tram one going to Poolbeg the other to Clongriffin. No tunnel needed.
• Swords Road/Ballygriffin line, basically a completely new line, down the Swords Road and down Gardiner street, parallel to the Green Line. Pretty easy to do, plenty of road space, basically recreating the old planned Swiftway/BRT route. Definitely no tunnel needed.
• Tyrrelstown line, basically joins the Green line at Broombridge. Should be fine, the Green line is relatively quiet north of O'Connell St. Even with the extension to Fingals I'd say it would be fine. Basically every second tram to either Finglas or Tyrrelstown. No tunnel needed.

Now we get into the more complex parts. First of all they have the Lucan Luas line, which has been discussed before. But then they have new lines that connect into either the Red line or Lucan line and I'm not sure how there would be the capacity for that.

• Blanchardstown line connecting into the Red line in tow. I have no idea how it could have the capacity for this!
• Clondalkin into the red line. Again I don't see how the capacity there is for that.
• Kimmage line into the Lucan line, maybe there would be enough capacity for this, maybe.

I'm not sure how you'd make these three lines work. Perhaps if the Lucan line was underground in the city center like suggested earlier, then there might enough capacity to handle these lines.

Or perhaps they think it might work if you split traffic between both the Red Line and Lucan line. Most Tallaght traffic goes via the new Knocklyon line, leaving space for Clondalkin line to feed into the Red line. Though Blanchardstown would still be a bit of a head scratcher.

Of course if you built the Lucan line as a tunnel, where would that leave DART Underground!

KrisW1001

They don't have to be underground in the city centre, but rather branch out into different city-centre routes. That's how European cities manage the lower line capacity of on-street trams in centres.

loco_scolo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121862765#Comment_121862765

If you split the Red Line at James with a spur to College Green / Pearse Street, then you significantly increase CC capacity. Between Blackhorse and James' the line is well segregated from traffic/conflicts and should handle additional trams coming from various directions.

The Dart West upgrade + BusConnects will take most of the Blanch-CityCentre demand, so it's not as though the full Blanch demand would be a single Luas line. The Lucan spur would also interchange with Dart SW.

Once Dart+ and Metro are complete, there'll be a substantial high capacity network with lots of good interchange stations supported by a larger Luas Tram network.

bk

kris, loco, you are right, stepping back and looking at the wider network and how it all fits together, it makes a great deal of sense.

I actually some how missed that the map includes Dart Underground! It is a small map, you really have to squint at it. The Kimmage line actually feeds into DU, which makes more sense. As you say the Blanchardstown line connects into Dart+ West and the Lucan line into Dart+ SW.

Id say that would all work really well. The more I think about it the more it all makes a great deal of sense and would give us a great comprehensive transport network that would transform Dublin.

Other then DU, most of these would be relatively straight forward, fast and affordable to deliver.

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121862858#Comment_121862858

Are you talking about a spur coming off east of the Fatima stop?

What route would it take towards college green/ pearse street? If it went up college green is that not an interaction with the GL and hence cutting the existing throughput on the GL CC?

loco_scolo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121864167#Comment_121864167

No from James' Hospital down to College Green via Thomas Street. With College Green closed to general traffic, that route is ideal for a Luas line.

This would double East-West capacity in the city centre and could be built relatively quickly.

If the spur was continued across College Green to Pearse Street, it would offer a much better connection with Metro at Tara, versus the poor connection from Abbey Red Line to OCS Metro.

spillit67

College Green to me is where a tunnel might make some sense. If you are connecting the Green with the Red there, you could do it on street but if we are going to dig up at what most consider the “centre” of the city for a plaza, why not a short underground interchange that frees up space above ground?

I’d also like to see a spur from the Green closer to SSG that goes down Baggot Street as part as the bottom of Pembroke Street. Or if too narrow, swing left down Nassau, over Merrion Square and down Mount Street. Indeed it come form part of any interchange at College Green- in effect a “new” line from James down towards Ballsbridge.

You could run all sort of different lines and routes.

Indeed it could ultimately get to Poolbeg and provide a full circle Luas line for the city.

cgcsb

A Lucan to Ringsend luas stopping at templebar and and Tara Street makes much more sense in terms of adding capacity, this would free up the red line for more local trips, the Heuston to Docklands section is currently rammed beyond its capacity.

citizen6

Does the plan for College Green plaza allow buses through from Dame St? I assume the same would apply to a Luas Red Line extension.

Even if not, James' to Dame St would be very useful. I wonder would they develop that separate to rest of Lucan Luas.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121864871#Comment_121864871

No buses will be going between College Green and the Dame Street/George's Street Junction.

There will however by three north/south Spines (A, E and F) and one radial bus route (85) going from Grafton Street to O'Connell Street, and they will be sharing that space with trams in both directions on College Green.

That will be between 45-60 buses an hour in each direction.

Consonata

If Metrolink were to be extended to Sandyford, would there be an argument of utilising the old Foxrock alignment of the Harcourt St. line through the racecourse, potentially doing some TOD there, down to Bray?

Main reasons' why I'm thinking this is that it will be nigh on impossible to resolve the LC issues on the Carrickmines branch, and that section of track could be connected instead to an N11 Luas in the future.

prunudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992752#Comment_121992752

I'd definitely be one for advocating any Metrolink, whether upgrade or new route, which goes to Sandyford, should have provisions to be extended further south.

What route it takes is up for debate, but personally think it should go further east, linking Foxrock, Cornelscourt, Cabinteely, Ballybrack and connecting Dart line at Shanganagh.

Luas to Bray from Cherrywood is nice, but the sytem is too slow for serious commuting imo. Its a city tram line, not suitable for mass transit for 10km.

Consonata

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121993220#Comment_121993220

Was thinking something like this. The N11 Luas is currently "Post 2042" but there are a couple of way it could utilised. If the old Harcourt alignment was reclaimed, since it is still there for the most part, you have the benefit of avoiding all the level crossing south of the M50 and in Sandyford. Leopardstown Racecourse could be redeveloped into mixed residential, and Metrolink would get the benefit of a much more direct railway alignment, likely much faster and able run at higher capacity.

(Apologies for the crayons, I recognise a lot of this is ficticious however the Eastern Bypass alignment is intact west of the N11 and could be used as a corridor for a future Green line extension.

prunudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121994191#Comment_121994191

makes sense and has the benefits of serving high density Cherrywood with higher capacity metro and fast service from Bray.

spillit67

The only issue I have with that (and the Eastern Bypass route) is that it really does overlap with the existing Green Line catchment south of UCD.

I’d prefer it to at least get to Stillorgan and Blakes Corner junction & taking in some more of the dense N11 developments.

That said, that‘s the third or fourth priority after connecting a Donnybrook, UCD and relieving Sandyford.

p_haugh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121995356#Comment_121995356

I’d prefer it to at least get to Stillorgan and Blakes Corner junction & taking in some more of the dense N11 developments.

I'd also prefer this, but purely for the reason it would mean a Luas within 5 minutes walk of where I'm currently living 😆

But realistically, there is a significant number of apartments going up in Stillorgan, right on the junction with the N11 (along with some partway down Stillorgan Park). The E-spine will only be able to deal with a certain extent of the new developments coming along the N11 before it starts getting overloaded (as if the N11 bus corridor isnt already!)

spillit67

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122042514#Comment_122042514

There must be close to 1,200 units that are either just completed or underway within 500m of Stillorgan?!