Tomas O Se says Leinster Football is a Joke

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

dixiefly

seligehgit wrote: »

Sonny678 I'm going state emphatically how much I enjoy reading your encyclopaedic bodies of work.:)

Somebody has got to stand up for you.:D

Are you sure you're not a Mayo man in disguise?You have a great understanding of the Mayo psyche.

Well, good for you. I hope that you are not trying to hold down a full time job and also read these posts.

I don't mind the occasional post and, in fact, found the first few like that on HoganStand ok. However almost ever post from this poster is a dissertation.

They sometimes say that less is more. I would say that most topics on boards.ie have subject experts like this. Thank God these people give their comments etc. without people having to trudge through a page of text.

dixiefly

Sonny678 wrote: »

Theres a difference a massive difference.
lets look at the facts

The problem is the counties who are having a bad decade are strong traditional football counties. They are are strong football strongholds. And what happens if Mayo Monaghan decline and no one takes there place at the top table. Galways record since 60s is patchy. For example Galway havent won in the championship in 17 years in Croker. And Galway didnt win in the championship in Croker between 1984 and 1997. They havent beaten Kerry in 53 years or Dublin in over 90 years in the championship. They have only beaten 5 top division 1 teams outside Connacht in half century eg 1971 Down 1998 Derry Kildare 01 Meath Armagh. Theres no gurantee Galway will step up to mark. What about in Ulster. The Monaghan team declines and break up Derry Down Armagh none of them look like they are going to take on Dublin pretty soon. And there is serious question mark over Tyrone. And when Harte leaves they could go the way of Meath after Boylan or Man Utd after Ferguson. When a sucessful manager decades in charge leaves that team always seem to decline.

Anyway the issue is so many strong football counties having hit an all time low. It would be like Galway Wexford Waterford limerick Clare and Cork all having their worst decade ever in hurling collectively. Meath Cork and Down are in the top 6 most sucessful counties. Not to long ago the 3 of them together won 8 All Irelands in 12 years. There has never been a decade when those 3 together were so low all together at the same time. For the last 80 years Cork and Meath have been the most consistent sucessful counties along with Dublin and Kerry. There has never been a decade where Cork Down Meath Galway kildare Offaly Laois Armagh Derry have all together had such a bad era. That is unprecedented and quite unusual.

This would have been a perfect response.....in my humble opinion that would have made your point without the rest that came after it.

Tombo2001

dixiefly wrote: »

Well, good for you. I hope that you are not trying to hold down a full time job and also read these posts.

I don't mind the occasional post and, in fact, found the first few like that on HoganStand ok. However almost ever post from this poster is a dissertation.

They sometimes say that less is more. I would say that most topics on boards.ie have subject experts like this. Thank God these people give their comments etc. without people having to trudge through a page of text.

Of course.

Time to get rid of the novel.

And the short story.

And the newspaper.

Really, any opinions herewith to be expressed on Twitter. 140 characters, no more.

The age of the soundbite.

Radio5

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

But how come, this decade, counties with small dispersed populations like Mayo and to a lesser extend Donegal, have been able to go
toe to toe with Dublin, while the likes of Meath and Kildare suck ?

You can add Laois to that list. Those 3 Leinster counties have had population growth for many years now, not just in the boom years. Their success rate has declined, if one excludes Meath's fluke win in 2010.

Leinster has 12 counties and the bulk of the countries' population. Not that many are strong in both codes.

On the other hand, Munster has 6 counties, 5 of whom would have aspirations to be hurling counties also.

Tombo2001

Sonny678 wrote: »

This has been a dreadful decade for Meath and kildare.

.

It depends on how you define success Sonny.

Take Monaghan.

They reached an all Ireland semi final twice in the 1980s, once the 1970s.

They havent done so in the past ten years; and YET it would be difficult to argue against the idea that this is best ever Monaghan team and the most succesful era for Monaghan football.

They have won Ulster twice in the past five years. But also, they have maintained a presence in footballs League Division 1 for several years. And it is mainly this thats defined them as a top team.

And thats where I think football is going. The championship in my view will inevitably becoming a quasi league structure where success for teams like Meath or Kildare will no longer be about winning in Leinster, or winning in Ulster. it will be about qualifying for the Super 8s, and competing within that.

At the moment, its an issue that say Donegal players or Monaghan or Tyrone players can compete for an Ulster championship. They are motivated by that, and if they win it, which brings a quartefinal spot - then its a good year for the county regardless of what happens after.

Whereas, every Leinster team ex Dublin knows from the beginning that they will be playing through the backdoor. And with the best will in the world, its not easy to get excited about that as a Meath fan or a Kildare fan.

nice_guy80

Fann Linn wrote: »

Twas grand when Dublin were winning nowt between '95 and 2011.
It's a problem now for some unknown reason.

Before they got millions pumped in by the GAA to turn them around you mean?

rpurfield

There's loads of factors causing it in Meath anyway. I'm convinced the state of the club championships doesn't help, there's an 18 team senior championship played on a round robin basis with two rounds in April then nothing until Meath are out. It's too unwieldy and there's at least 3/4 teams of the 18 floating along that would benefit from being competitive in the IFC. When there was a proposal to change all the grades to 16 team championships a couple of years back a balls was made of it and it was withdrawn. I'm convinced a more competitive championship would put an edge on teams and generally lift the county team. Another factor is the lack of underage success for years. In the last 20 years or so we've had maybe two decent minor teams. I'm not even talking about teams being successful in winning stuff but even being competitive and going close to winning or have a run in the championship. Thankfully the work is being done underage now and things seem to be improving a small bit on that front in the last year or two, but will take time to filter through. I'd also be convinced that not all the best coaches are out coaching these days in clubs due to the nature of life and work etc. People are just too busy working and looking after family to be giving up time, that one would be a more general one and not just in Meath, just as I would be convinced in some counties the pull of other sports means some of the best players don't commit to football like 20/30 years ago, especially in counties where the effort won't be matched with the reward of a trophy at the end of the year.

paulie21

Sonny678 wrote: »

This has been a dreadful decade for Meath and kildare.

In this decade kildare have reached only 1 leinster final. They have had 3 relegations in 5 years. They currently have lost 10 games in a row. They have lost their last 6 games in Croke Park in the last 3 years. They havent won a match in Croke Park in the championship in 5 years. They have only won in Croke Park 3 times in the championship in this decade. They have lost their last 35 of their last 40 matchs in Croke Park. They havent won a leinster senior semi final in Croke Park in 9 years since 2009.

11 And they have had some of the worst defeats in their history in the last decade, record defeats to Dublin and Kerry. Two defeats v Dublin recently are their two worst defeats in the leinster championship in 100 years for kildare football. kildares 19 point defeat to Dublin in 2015 is kildares worst defeat to Dublin since 1897 ( Dublin 5 -18 Kildare 0-14) . The 7 goal hammering v Kerry in 2015 is the worst defeat for kildare in the championship outside leinster in 100 years ( Kerry 7 -16 Kildare 0-10). Other bad defeats (Cork 2-19 0-12 in 2012).
( In terms of the leinster senior championship, the stats show kildare are not the second most sucessful team in the leinster championship in this decade which most people would probaly believe. They are the fourth. Dublin r number 1 of course with 7 senior titles, Meath r second with 4 leinster final appearances and 1 title, Westmeath have 2 leinster final appearances and kildare have 1 leinster final appearances along with Louth who also have 1.)

It is also Meaths worst decade since the 1920s, if Meath dont reach an All Ireland in the next 2 years it will be first decade since 1920s that has happened. Meaths lose to Dublin in 2014 is Meath worst lose to Dublin since the 1920s. There was bad loses in 95 ( but Meath were ahead with ten mins to go), early 60s and 1955 ( but that Meath team was overhil in 55 after winning the final with the oldest team ever in 54) . 2014 was first time in hundred years a Meath v Dublin match was over by half time. Meath have also spent 12 years outside division 1 . And had their first loses in the championship ever to Tyrone Armagh and famously to Westmeath in 2015.

None of them statements are true

dixiefly

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Of course.

Time to get rid of the novel.

And the short story.

And the newspaper.

Really, any opinions herewith to be expressed on Twitter. 140 characters, no more.

The age of the soundbite.

Not saying that at all. I don't particularly like Twitter and the text I gave as a good example for Sonny is way beyond a twitter spec.

dixiefly

paulie21 wrote: »

None of them statements are true

TBH I haven't checked this but I wouldnt be surprised. Quantity over quality.

Sonny678

They currently have lost 10 games in a row. They have lost their last 6 games in Croke Park in the last 3 years. They havent won a match in Croke Park in the championship in 5 years. They have only won in Croke Park 3 times in the championship in this decade. They have lost their last 35 of their last 40 matchs in Croke Park. They havent won a leinster senior semi final in Croke Park in 9 years since 2009.

paulie21 wrote: »

None of them statements are true

Sorry but they mostly are right.Of the 6 stats , 4 are right and one is half right, half wrong another just one stat out. I have a vast knowlege of stats of the top of my head, which might sound a bit sad, So I might get 1 or 2 wrong. I dont like bringing this up for kildare supporters, so I apologise. But you said none of these statements are true, and to be fair to myself, you are wrong . Any kildare supporter will tell you there record recently is very poor, its common knowledge.

Statement 1

They have lost their last 6 games in Croke Park in the last 3 years. This statement is True.



Stats below

In 2016 Kildare lost in Croke Park to Clare in league div 3 final and Westmeath in leinster semi final , 2 loses in Croker

In 2017 KIldare lost in Croke Park to Galway in League 2 final, Dublin in leinster final and Armagh in the qualifiers. 3 loses in Croke Park

In 2018 Kildare have lost so far to Dublin in the league in Croke Park, 1 lose

So Kildare in the last 3 years have lost to Armagh Clare Galway
Wesmeath and Dublin twice in Croker, thats 6 loses in three year.

So the above statement is true


Statement 2
Kildare currently have lost 10 games in a row. This statement is true,

Stats

Since the leinster semi final last summer kildare have lost to Dublin, Armagh, Longford in the Bryne cup and they lost 7 games in division 1 , this adds up to 10 games lost in a row.
Again this statement is true

Statement 3

They havent won a match in Croke Park in the championship in 5 years Again this statement is true

2018 No wins in Croke Park in the championship , lost to Dublin in Croker

2017 No wins in Croke Park in the championship , lost to Galway, Dublin, Armagh in Croker

2016 No wins in Croke Park in the championship , lost to Clare and Westmeath in Croker

2015 No wins in Croke Park in the championship lost to Dublin and Kerry in Croker

2014 No wins in Croke Park in the championship lost to Meath and Monaghan in Croker

2013 1 win in Croker in the championship v Offaly

So kildare havent won in Croke Park in the championship 2018, 2017, 2016, 2015, 2014. Thats 5 years. Last win was June 2013, 5 years ago.

Again this statement True.

Statement 4


They have only won in Croke Park 3 times in the championship in this decade. This statement is not fully true, they have only won twice in the leinster championship in this decade and the three times in the qualifier.I got mixed up with this stat and forgot Meath v kildare quater final.. I should have emphasised I meant kildare have only won in Croke Park twice in the leinster championship in this decade. They have won 5 in the All Ireland championship, twice in leinster and three in the qualifiers. I should have emphasised I meant twice in leinster. Sometimes I write so much I phrase things poorly and I forgot the Meath v kildare match was in quarter final not a leinster championship, We all forget now and again.

Stats below
2018 No wins in Croke Park in the championship , lost to Dublin in Croker

2017 No wins in Croke Park in the championship , lost to Galway, Dublin, Armagh in Croker

2016 No wins in Croke Parkin the championship , lost to Clare and Westmeath in Croker

2015 No wins in Croke Park in the championship lost to Dublin and Kerry in Croker

2014 No wins in Croke Park in the championship lost to Meath and Monaghan in Croker

2013 1 win in Croker v Offaly, lost to Dublin in Croker

2012 No win Croke Park in the championship, they lost to Meath and Cork in Croker

2011 1 wins in Croker v Meath and 1 win v Derry in the qualifiers, lost to Donegal in Croker

2010 2 win in Croker v Meath and Monaghan in qualifiers, lost to Down in the semi final in Croker



So in this decade kildare have won twice in leinster championship matchs in Croker eg Meath , 2011 and Offaly in 2013. So my above statement is half true half wrong, I should have emphasised leinster. They won three in the qualifiers v Derry in 2011 and Monaghan in 2012. I got mixed up with this stat and forgot Meath v kildare quater final. 5 wins in the All Ireland championship in Croke Park in this Decade


Statement 5


They havent won a leinster senior semi final in Croke Park in 9 years since 2009. Again this is True.

They have only reached 1 leinster final last year. And that leinster semi final was outside Croke Park.


Statement 6



They have lost their last 35 of their last 40 matchs in Croke Park. In the last 12 years kildare have won 5 times in Croke Park. Off the top of my head I can go back to 2006 and in the last 12 years kildare have lost 20 of their last 25 matchs in the championship in Croke Park, and three more loses to Dublin in Croker in the league in the period, pushs the loses to 23 in 12 years in Croker. But the fact I said in the above statement kidlare had won 5 matchs and I was right they have only won 5 matchs in Croker in the last 12 years. Its just 20 of the last 25 matchs in Croker in 12 years not 35 out 0f 40 . I heard 35 loses stat of K fm radio maybe that goes back to 2000.



So here are the stats,


2018 No wins in Croke Park in the championship , lost to Dublin in Croker

2017 No wins in Croke Park in the championship , lost to Galway, Dublin, Armagh in Croker

2016 No wins in Croke Parkin the championship , lost to Clare and Westmeath in Croker

2015 No wins in Croke Park in the championship lost to Dublin and Kerry in Croker

2014 No wins in Croke Park in the championship lost to Meath and Monaghan in Croker

2013 1 win in Croker v Offaly, lost to Dublin in Croker

2012 No win Croke Park in the championship, they lost to Meath and Cork in Croker

2011 1 wins in Croker v Meath and 1 win v Derry in the qualifiers, lost to Donegal in Croker

2010 2 win in Croker v Meath and Monaghan in qualifiers, lost to Down in the semi final in Croker


2009 No win in Croke Park in the championship lost to Dublin and Tyrone in Croker

2008 No wins in Croker in the championship lost to Wicklow and Cork in Croker

2007 No wins in Croker in the championship lost to Meath in Croker

2006 No wins in Croker in the championship lost to Offaly in Croker



So of the 6 statements you said were all untrue 4 of them were true and 1 nearly true and the other I misheard a stat of the radio. I have put up 70 80 or 90s stats on this thread. Of course 1 or 2 might be wrong. I did an extensive run through of the leinster championship for 100 years with 60 plus stats pretty much all r 100% in terms leinster and league wins from 20s to current decade, u dont mention that, yet a couple of mistake and that is brought up. That a bit petty now.

We should be tallking about the leinster football, instead of going through my stats to look for an odd wrong one. As I said u said the statements were not true, that statement is untrue.

road_high

idnkph wrote: »

It is a joke at the moment but it comes down to money invested in the county teams at the end of the day. Dublin are investing 12-13 million quid a year more than most other counties country wide. Until there are major changes in croker and the way things are done with investment then it'll continue this way. Dublin will dominate in the all Ireland as always. It's getting boring now and a huge reason people are losing interest in the great game.

Personally think there should be some kind of funding ceiling per player- so everyone is on the same level. Otherwise we are getting the ones/s with the most cash winning ie what's happening currently.

Sonny678

seligehgit wrote: »

Sonny678 I'm going state emphatically how much I enjoy reading your encyclopaedic bodies of work.:)

Somebody has got to stand up for you.:D

Are you sure you're not a Mayo man in disguise?You have a great understanding of the Mayo psyche.

Thanks Seligehgit and Tombo2001you guys are both gentlemen

klairondavis

Sonny678 wrote: »

So here are the stats,


2018 No wins in Croke Park in the championship , lost to Dublin in Croker

2017 No wins in Croke Park in the championship , lost to Galway, Dublin, Armagh in Croker

2016 No wins in Croke Parkin the championship , lost to Clare and Westmeath in Croker

2015 No wins in Croke Park in the championship lost to Dublin and Kerry in Croker

2014 No wins in Croke Park in the championship lost to Meath and Monaghan in Croker

2013 1 win in Croker v Offaly, lost to Dublin in Croker

2012 No win Croke Park in the championship, they lost to Meath and Cork in Croker

2011 1 wins in Croker v Meath and 1 win v Derry in the qualifiers, lost to Donegal in Croker

2010 2 win in Croker v Meath and Monaghan in qualifiers, lost to Down in the semi final in Croker


2009 No win in Croke Park in the championship lost to Dublin and Tyrone in Croker

2008 No wins in Croker in the championship lost to Wicklow and Cork in Croker

2007 No wins in Croker in the championship lost to Meath in Croker

2006 No wins in Croker in the championship lost to Offaly in Croker

2016 - beat Wexford in Croke Park

2014 - beat Louth in Croke Park

2013 - beat Donegal in Croke Park

2012 - beat Tyrone and Offaly in Croke Park

2008 - beat Fermanagh in Croke Park

Sonny678

klairondavis wrote: »

2016 - beat Wexford in Croke Park

2014 - beat Louth in Croke Park

2013 - beat Donegal in Croke Park

2012 - beat Tyrone and Offaly in Croke Park

2008 - beat Fermanagh in Croke Park

I said in the championship I didnt mention the league, I dont know the results for all the league, I said kildare havent won in the championship in 5 years in Croker .
I have left a few out but you are wrong also

2013 - beat Donegal in Croke Park That was in the league, not the championship.

2012 - beat Tyrone in Croke ParkThat was in the league, not the championship.

2012 - Beat Offaly in Croke Park. That was in Portlaoise not Croke Park .

I forgot the louth and Wexford match from this decade and the Fermanagh from 10 years ago. Im doing this of the top of my head, So I will get one or two wrong. You got 3 wrong above , two games in the league and leinster match in Portlaoise not Croker between Offaly and kildare. I dont know everything about kildare but my general point is correct, kildares record is very poor in Croker in the championship. 6 loses in 3 year ( 2 loses in the league) in Croker. no win in 5 years in Croker, one leinster final appearance since 2009, and the loses are some record scores v kerry and Dublin and there is I counted up to 20 loses in 12 years that is a very high number.
Again I wrote 60 or so stats about the leinster championship perfectly correct , but I shouldnt have tried to do stats on kildare record becuase my knowledge of kildare GAA wouldnt be as good as true kildare supporter. I know some stats but not everything about Kildare GAA. I apologise for getting a few wrong. But I think I have showed more evidence that my point is the state of leinster football is shocking. Kildare have not beating one of the top teams, top 4 or 5 in the country, top division 1 team in the championship in 17 years ( Dublin 2000), kildare have not beating a top quality division 1 team in the championship outside leinster in 20 years since 1998 (Kerry reigning All Ireland champions). I know they beat Cork in 2015, but Cork in the last few years are not up there with Donegal Kerry Dublin Mayo or Tyrone . While take Mayo they have beaten Dublin twice, Kerry, Tyrone Donegal in the last ten years in the championship.

Meath havent beaten a top divsion 1 team in the championship since 2010 v Dublin. Meath havent beaten a top division 1 team since Mayo in 09 or Tyrone 11 years ago in the championship outside leinster. This is Meaths worst decade since independence and kildare along with the their worst since independence. The only positive is kildare have had some recent underage sucess and the Kelly Doyle Feehily and the two Flynns have serious potential. Maybe Glen Ryan would be a better option then O Neill. Ryan record with longford was good. And with kildare under 21s. He was a real warrior of a player. At least kildare have underage sucess, Meath havent won a minor leinster title in 10 years and under 21 leinster title in 17 years . Its explains allot about Meaths decline.

Sonny678

[/QUOTE]


Originally Posted by idnkph
Dublin are investing 12-13 million quid a year more than most other counties country wide.

Citation needed! I'm going to need to see a reference for those numbers. [/QUOTE]

dixiefly wrote: »

I agree and I am a meathman!

This guy sonny also posts under the name furlong on the Meath Hogan Stand site and other posters have long since told him to go and start a full thread for his encyclopedic offerings.

I certainly dont have the time to read this and I wonder how he gets the time to write this continued massive posts. Why use 100 words when you can posts 1000 words instead?

Firstly the chap was not referring to me. Idnkph talked about Dublin investing 12 million. Someone asked for citation. Again he wasnt even referring to me. If you going to criticise at least get the proper quotation not someone criticising someone else comments. The chap above was even talking about me above.

Secondly I did start this thread. You say I should go and start a full thread for his encyclopedic offerings. Well I started this thread.

Thirdly I can write seriously fast, always have so it doesnt take that much time. And most of the stats I know off by heart. I do have a vast knowledge of GAA stats. Not the coolest thing in the world , but I am interested in GAA stats. And yes I do get a few wrong.


Fourthly no one is askin you to read this. If U Dont like it , dont read it. I am passionate about football. If you dont like my style, dont read it. I dont insult or degrade or demean anyone. Traits that are widespread on the net. . Again if you dont like dont read it.

5 I wrote an extensive hsitory of leinster football , 60 plus stats of every leinster final ,every national league winner or runner up in leinster for 100 years. Not 1 mistake . Yet 1 or 2 mistakes elsewhere I have been pulled up on. Its my own general knowledge and I do make mistakes now and again.


Finally I dont appear on site regularly . I dont write on sites weekly or daily constantly. I write sporadically for a week or two every couple of months. I was on this site last July, Jan this year and now May. I have allot to say, and then I disappear and I will soon disappear again. I read the site, every day on GAA matters and enjoy it immensely. The debate is mighty and I alway look forward to reading all the comments by all the great gaels on boardsie gaa. For a passionate GAA man like myself , I find the site a great place to catch up on GAA matters. But I write on the site not very frequently.

You ask personal question where do I get the time. So I will give you a personal answer. As I said I contribute the site occasionally when I have the time occassionally. For a week or two every couple of months. I have two sick elderly parents who are very sick at the moment. I like to come on to this site and just write away about GAA matters. It takes my mind of other stuff. The father has been very poorly recently. And when I write its usually to take my mind of other stuff.

I dont mean to annoy anyone, and If I am disrupting the site , I apologise , that is definatly not my intention.

The_Honeybadger

Fair play Sonny, I find your posts fascinating as well, and could read them all day. Keep it up as far as I am concerned.

ProudDUB

Don't you mind them Sonny. I don't always agree with you, but this place would be all the poorer without your encyclopedic knowledge of Meath football and, what flavour coco pops Sean Boylan had for his breakfast on the 3rd of May 1962.

paulie21

Not taking a pop at you Sonny just pointed out a couple of stats that were wrong. As a Kildare man I agree with your points that our record is terrible in recent years at a stage where I hate going to Croke Park for a game

seligehgit

Sonny keep the chin up.:)

Tombo2001

Tombo2001 wrote: »

It depends on how you define success Sonny.

Take Monaghan.

They reached an all Ireland semi final twice in the 1980s, once the 1970s.

They havent done so in the past ten years; and YET it would be difficult to argue against the idea that this is best ever Monaghan team and the most succesful era for Monaghan football.

They have won Ulster twice in the past five years. But also, they have maintained a presence in footballs League Division 1 for several years. And it is mainly this thats defined them as a top team.

And thats where I think football is going. The championship in my view will inevitably becoming a quasi league structure where success for teams like Meath or Kildare will no longer be about winning in Leinster, or winning in Ulster. it will be about qualifying for the Super 8s, and competing within that.

At the moment, its an issue that say Donegal players or Monaghan or Tyrone players can compete for an Ulster championship. They are motivated by that, and if they win it, which brings a quartefinal spot - then its a good year for the county regardless of what happens after.

Whereas, every Leinster team ex Dublin knows from the beginning that they will be playing through the backdoor. And with the best will in the world, its not easy to get excited about that as a Meath fan or a Kildare fan.

Scrap the provincials then. In the context of the back door, quarter finals and now the Super 8 structure, they are an irrelevance. Structure the championship on the basis of what division the counties are in for that year. The club championships are tiered why can't the counties be the same?

Dyr

I never approve of Royallers but I approve of Sonny as an exception

BonnieSituation

Most of the daycent regulars do.

But can we get back to giving out about Kerry ffs. I thought that that's what this thread was all about?

klairondavis

Sonny678 wrote: »

I said in the championship I didnt mention the league, I dont know the results for all the league, I said kildare havent won in the championship in 5 years in Croker .
I have left a few out but you are wrong also

2013 - beat Donegal in Croke Park That was in the league, not the championship.

2012 - beat Tyrone in Croke ParkThat was in the league, not the championship.

If you're including league defeats (eg. Dublin 2018, Clare 2016) then surely you should be including league victories for balance?

Tombo2001

paulie21 wrote: »

None of them statements are true

I went and had a look, and the facts presented seem to stand up.

paulie21

Tombo2001 wrote: »

paulie21 wrote: »

None of them statements are true

I went and had a look, and the facts presented seem to stand up.

Okay I must be lying so not like I was at them games Klairon Davis mentioned

Tombo2001

paulie21 wrote: »

Okay I must be lying so not like I was at them games Klairon Davis mentioned

Apologies - i got it wrong.

Tombo2001

I'm going to take issue Sonny with the title of the thread.

I think you are misquoting T o'Se.

He actually said 'Leinster is a joke' and by that I think clearly referring to the Leinster football championship. In other words, the rest are so far behind Dublin that the Leinster championship is won before it has started.

Thats not the same as saying Leinster football is a joke.

And on the other hand he might as well be saying the All Ireland championship is a joke - if for example Tyrone are seen as one of the nearest contenders and still get hammered off the park in the semfinal.
The same argument applies to the All ireland as does to Leinster; just not to the same extent. For example - on current form, its probably a reasonable expectation that Dublin will win 9 of the next 10 Leinster titles. I'd say its also a reasonable expectation that they will win 6 or 7 of the next 10 All Ireland titles.

Dont forget that apart Mayo, Dublin got their closest games last year from Kildare and Carlow.

To turn it on its head - I'd say if this Kildare team was in the Ulster, Connacht or Munster championships - they'd have a reasonable chance of winning it. Wouldnt be favourites, but certainly be strong contenders.

The one thing I'd say about O'Se - and i know its stating the obvious.......to look at the counterpart; for years we had Kilkennny winning easy in Leinster. From 1998 to 2011, they won every year bar one.
Two points on this:
(i) You didnt have Sean Og O'hAilpin or Jamesie O'Connor going around saying Leinster Hurling was a joke.
(ii) What eventually did shake things up was a restructure, and Galway coming in.

BPKS

When Kerry were dominating Gaelic Football in the late 70's, early 80's to a similar extent that Dublin are now, they were often put to the pin of their collar by Cork and even beaten by Cork in 1983. Micko Dwyer used to go to the Cork dressing room and well them they were the 2nd best team in the country. Kerry used to have to peak for a Munster Final and again for either the final or semi final when they played Dublin or Offaly.

Nobody in Leinster gets within an asses roar of Dublin and thats the point Tomas Se is making. Dublin dont need to peak til AI semi final time and the Super 8s will be a perfect platform for them to iron out their very few flaws before a semi final from now on.

ProudDUB

This summer, Kerry will win their 80th Munster championship.

Think about that for a sec....80 provincial titles.

Let's not kid ourselves how much use Cork are to them now, or have been historically, despite what the Kerry propaganda merchants tell us. (I love how we are all supposed to take something as a fact, just because a Kerry man says it.)

Do Cork offer up more of an opportunity to Kerry, to blow out the dirty diesel (as I believe Paudi called it) than a Louth or an Laois do for Dublin? Yes, they probably do. But c'mon now....80 Munster titles & 37 All Irelands? They are hardly choking on the fumes for 120 odd years. The numbers speak for themselves.

BPKS

ProudDUB wrote: »

This summer, Kerry will win their 80th Munster championship.

Think about that for a sec....80 provincial titles.

Let's not kid ourselves how much use Cork are to them now, or have been historically, despite what the Kerry propaganda merchants tell us. (I love how we are all supposed to take something as a fact, just because a Kerry man says it.)

Do Cork offer up more of an opportunity to Kerry, to blow out the dirty diesel (as I believe Paudi called it) than a Louth or an Laois do for Dublin? Yes, they probably do. But c'mon now....80 Munster titles & 37 All Irelands? They are hardly choking on the fumes for 120 odd years. The numbers speak for themselves.

OK.

This decade Dublin have won 5 AI titles to date.

Last decade Kerry won 5 AI titles.

In this decade, I only remember Meath beating Dublin, I dont think I'm wrong there. Not sure how many other teams have even come within a score of Dublin in Leinster?

Last decade, Kerry were beaten in Munster by Cork in 2002, drew with Limerick in 2004, lost to Cork in 2006, lost to Cork in 2008, lost to Cork in 2009.

ProudDUB

Yep. And Cork have won how many All Irelands?

Without the aid of Google, I think it's 7.

7 in 120/130 odd years.

Compare that to their success in hurling & there is no comparison really.

The numbers don't really back up their being genuine All Ireland contenders year in and year out, who are good enough to go toe to toe with Kerry.

Even with the advent of the qualifiers, they haven't really stood out. It's been nearly a decade since their last AI final appearance.

Gael85

BPKS wrote: »

OK.

This decade Dublin have won 5 AI titles to date.

Last decade Kerry won 5 AI titles.

In this decade, I only remember Meath beating Dublin, I dont think I'm wrong there. Not sure how many other teams have even come within a score of Dublin in Leinster?

Last decade, Kerry were beaten in Munster by Cork in 2002, drew with Limerick in 2004, lost to Cork in 2006, lost to Cork in 2008, lost to Cork in 2009.

How many times have Cork beaten Kerry when it mattered in Croke Park? Last time Cork beat Kerry in knockout game was in 1999 before the backdoor was introduced.

Sonny678

Tombo2001 wrote: »

I'm going to take issue Sonny with the title of the thread.

I think you are misquoting T o'Se.

He actually said 'Leinster is a joke' and by that I think clearly referring to the Leinster football championship. In other words, the rest are so far behind Dublin that the Leinster championship is won before it has started.

Thats not the same as saying Leinster football is a joke.

And on the other hand he might as well be saying the All Ireland championship is a joke - if for example Tyrone are seen as one of the nearest contenders and still get hammered off the park in the semfinal.
The same argument applies to the All ireland as does to Leinster; just not to the same extent. For example - on current form, its probably a reasonable expectation that Dublin will win 9 of the next 10 Leinster titles. I'd say its also a reasonable expectation that they will win 6 or 7 of the next 10 All Ireland titles.

Dont forget that apart Mayo, Dublin got their closest games last year from Kildare and Carlow.

To turn it on its head - I'd say if this Kildare team was in the Ulster, Connacht or Munster championships - they'd have a reasonable chance of winning it. Wouldnt be favourites, but certainly be strong contenders.

The one thing I'd say about O'Se - and i know its stating the obvious.......to look at the counterpart; for years we had Kilkennny winning easy in Leinster. From 1998 to 2011, they won every year bar one.
Two points on this:
(i) You didnt have Sean Og O'hAilpin or Jamesie O'Connor going around saying Leinster Hurling was a joke.
(ii) What eventually did shake things up was a restructure, and Galway coming in.

Tombo2001 Iactually find it hard at times to decide on a thread title, and I particularly was puzzled which one to go here. I was going to go with The State of leinster football, Tomas O Se leinster is a Joke, and 1 or 2 others, but I went for the one I picked , I know what ur saying I probaly should have maybe picked an other title, But I think most people got the idea what I meant.

Sonny678

The fact is kerry has dominated Munster and Dublin have dominated Leinster since independence. Leinster has been more competitive then Munster until this decade but Dublin have a massive aura in the provience the same way kerry have dowm south.


In the last 88 years of the Munster championship, Kerry have won 61 of the last 88 Munster senior championships. Thats some going.

1 Tipp havent won a Munster title in 80 years
2 Clare have won 1 Munster title in 90 years
3 limerick havent won a Munster title in 120 years
4 Waterford havent won a Munster title in 120 years also their only Munster title.
5 The Munster championship has been won by Kerry or Cork every year since 1923 with the exception of victories by Tipperary in 1935 and Clare in 1992.
6 Watterford havent beaten Kerry in Munster championship in 60 years.
7 Tipperary havent beaten Kerry in the Munster championship in 91 years.
8 Limerick havent beaten Kerry in the Munster championship in 120 years.
9 Clare have beaten Kerry once in the Munster championship in 80 years.
10 But with the exception of the late 80s and early 90s Cork have been second best to kerry since Independence. Kerry were the dominate force in Munster football in the 1920s, 30s,40s,50s,60s, 70s, early 1980s and 00s and this decade. There is the odd Cork year of sucess in between eg 1973 but overall you take out late 80s and early 90s , and pretty much for 90% of the last 100 years kerry have been top dog in Munster. Kerry always play up how how Cork good are. And they need a Cork Munster final to prepare them for the championship outside Munster.

11 Years Kerry won Munster Senior titles
1920s: 6 for Kerry (1923-24-25-26-27-29)
1930s: 9 for Kerry (1930-31-32-33-34-36-37-38-39)
1940s: 7 for Kerry (1940-41-42-44-46-47-48)
1950s: 7 for Kerry (1950-51-53-54-55-58-59)
1960s: 8 for Kerry (1960-61-62-63-64-65-68-69)
1970s: 7 for Kerry (1970-72-75-76-77-78-79)
1980s: 6 for Kerry (1980-81-82-84-85-86)
1990s: 5 for Cork (1990-93-94-95-99)
2000s: 6 for Kerry (2000-01-03-04-05-07)
2010s: 7 for Kerry (2010-11-13-14-15-16-17)

Now look at Dublin in the East
Dublin always had a rival..a team who was winning leinster titles or national titles or whoever was the dominant force in the provience at the time. This decade is the first time ever they no rival. Dublin have always been dominate in leinster look at their numbers of titles ..

1920 30s Dublin had Kildare as a rival
1940s and 50s Meath had Louth and Dublin as rivals
1960s Meath had Offaly as a rival
1970s Dublin had Offaly and Meath as rivals
1980s Meath had Dublin as a rival and Offaly had Dublin as a rival
1990s Meath had Dublin Kildare and Offaly as rivals
2000s Dublin had Meath Laois kildare and Westmeath as rivals
2010s Dublin have no rivals

1 The only periods you had a very competitive leinster championship when you had numerous winners were late 90s to early 00s eg Winners Meath Dublin Kildare Offaly Laois Westmeath
The early 40s and 50s is the only other period When you had a really competitive leinster with Meath Dublin Louth Kildare Wexford Laois and Carlow winners .
1940s 50s - Winners Meath Dublin Louth Kildare Wexford Carlow Laois

2 In the last 55 or 56 years I think Dublin have won 29 Meath 13 Offaly 9 Kildare 2 Laois Westmeath and longford 1 each. Dublin have been the kingpins for a long time in leinster.
Take Meath and Offaly out of the equation Dublin could potentially have won 49 of the last 55 leinster titles

3 You had a golden age of leinster football between 96 to 05 with Meath Dublin Kildare Offaly Laois and Westmeath were winners. But that was an unusual period of competitiveness in leinster football.

But before that from 1958 to 1997 Dublin Meath and Offaly divided all the leinster titles between each other . Only longfords win in 1968 broke up that sequence and Louths win in 1957 and Kildare in 1956. Dublin could have won 38 leinster titles in a row during this period in the 60s 70s 80s and early 90s only for Meath and Offaly.

5 Leinster is great football provience. With many great areas and supporters and clubs. But Dublins being the kingpins did not begin in the last 13 years with 12 titles. It's being the narrative of leinster football for 130 years.

This is shows how dominant Dublin have been in leinster football. They have an aura in leinster football for decades. Teams are beaten before they even enter the field v Dublin for decades.

Leinster teams record v Dublin in leinster championship

Kildare have only beaten Dublin twice in 45 years

Offaly have not beaten Dublin in 35 years.

Laois have beaten Dublin once in 35 years

Louth haven't not beaten Dublin in 40 years

Westmeath have beaten Dublin twice in 130 years

Wexford have not beaten Dublin in 70 years

Wicklow have not beaten Dublin in 70 years their only victory

Carlow have not beaten Dublin in nearly 80 years

Longford have not beaten Dublin in nearly 50 years

Kilkenny have never beaten Dublin

Meath have beaten Dublin 9 times and drawn 5 times in the last 40 years in the championship

( Also there is 2 national league division 1 finals victories v the Dubs for Meath) So that brings Meath up to 11 wins and 5 draws.


Leinster Title Record Again shows how Dominate Dublin have been for decades

1 Dublin have won 23 leinster senior title in the last 40 years

2 Meath have won 9 leinster titles in the last 40 years

3 Kildare have won 2 leinster senior titles in the last 60 years

4 Westmeath have only won 1 provicial title in 130 years.

5 Offaly have won 1 leinster title in 35 years.

6 longford have won 1 leinster title in 50 years ago, their only title.

7 Laos have Only 1 leinster title in over 50 years.

8 Wicklow have never won a leinster title.

9 Louth have not won an All Ireland or leinster title in 60 years . Only 1 leinster final appearance in 60 years.

10 Wexford have not won a leinster title in 70 years

11 Carlow haven't won a leinster title in 70 years.

Sonny678

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Apologies - i got it wrong.

Tombo2001 Your not wrong. Paulie said I got all the stats wrong, I got the vast majority correct. Of the 12 stats on kildare , 10 are true. 10 stats are correct and one is half right and one completly wrong . The stat I messed up was I forgot some kildares victories in the league.
The stats are al below paragraph. Theres r 12 stats . I have underlined the two I got wrong, the other ten are correct .


1 In this decade kildare have reached only 1 leinster final. TRUE
2 They have had 3 relegations in 5 years. TRUE
3 They currently have lost 10 games in a row. TRUE
4 They have lost their last 6 games in Croke Park in the last 3 years. TRUE
5 They havent won a match in Croke Park in the championship in 5 years.TRUE
6 They have only won in Croke Park 3 times in the championship in this decade. FALSE
7 They have lost their last 35 of their last 40 matchs in Croke Park. FALSE
8 They havent won a leinster senior semi final in Croke Park in 9 years since 2009.TRUE
9 And they have had some of the worst defeats in their history in the last decade, record defeats to Dublin and Kerry. TRUE
10 Two defeats v Dublin recently are their two worst defeats in the leinster championship in 100 years for kildare football. kildares 19 point defeat to Dublin in 2015 is kildares worst defeat to Dublin since 1897 ( Dublin 5 -18 Kildare 0-14) . TRUE
11 The 7 goal hammering v Kerry in 2015 is the worst defeat for kildare in the championship outside leinster in 100 years ( Kerry 7 -16 Kildare 0-10). Other bad defeats (Cork 2-19 0-12 in 2012). TRUE
12 ( In terms of the leinster senior championship, the stats show kildare are not the second most sucessful team in the leinster championship in this decade which most people would probaly believe. They are the fourth. Dublin r number 1 of course with 7 senior titles, Meath r second with 4 leinster final appearances and 1 title, Westmeath have 2 leinster final appearances and kildare have 1 leinster final appearances along with Louth who also have 1.)TRUE

Sonny678

klairondavis wrote: »

If you're including league defeats (eg. Dublin 2018, Clare 2016) then surely you should be including league victories for balance?

Your correct I should have included the league victories. The reason I didnt because I didnt know them. I know championship records , butnot other counties records in the league for ten years , I wouldnt be able to do Meaths league record game after game for 10 years. I was trying to give a few stats on kildare to show state of leinstr football. . So I picked stats I remebered. So I said 6 games in last three years in Croker stat. I included Clare and Dublin games in the league here, because I remebered the Dublin game from this year, and Clare division 3 final match 2 years ago . After that the only league games I would remeber for kildare in Croker are v Dublin. So thats why I used the stat eg no wins in championship in 5 years in Crokers, because I knew the matchs in Croker in the championship, but forgot other league games. I got 10 out of 12 stats right correct. The one I made a mess of was the 35 loses in 40 games stat. I heard that on KFM, but clearly I misheard it. Yourself Klarion showed I left out league matchs. Any other time I mention a whole countires record in a stat from now on I will make sure I know all league matchs. I honestly forgot you guys won v Tyrone in Croker in league in early 00s. And I didnt even know you played Donegal in Croker in the league a few years ago.


Klairondavis and Paulie , I get the feeling you two guys think Im trying to highligh bad kildare results. That was never my intention. I was showing the state of leinster football and gave some stats on kidlare and the convesrsation went in a direction where there was more talk on kildares stats in Croker.


Listen I definalty didnt mean it intentionally . I have given many bad stats to show how bad this decade is for Meath. Our worst decade in 100 years. Thats ow I see it. Meath are actually in a worst state place then kildare. Kildare have underage sucess we dont. Kildare have allot of things in place. Players like Doyle Kelly Feehily The Two Flynns are some of the best talent kildare have produced since Tompkins. They have had underage sucess and experienced div 1 football. They are a very mobile atletic team, a very modern gaelic football team. O Neill has put in good foundations . What kildare lack is belief because kildare are very close. If you look at the loses in the early stages of this league this year, and kildares loses to Donegal Monaghan in the championship in the last few years. They are all by 1 points. Which indicates kildare are really close. In comparsion Meath issues run deeper and and are very complicated. I have said before I think Glen Ryan with Earley and Doyle could be the management team to give kildare that belief. He was a real warrior as a player. And he did a good job with longford and kildare under 21. For me kildare have underage sucess,div 1 experience, and the young talent, for me kildare r now just a top class manager away from being a top class team. And for the sake of leinster football I hope you guys do beat Dublin and win leinster soon. Its not anything against Dublin per se, but for the future of leinster championship we need new champions very soon.


Two things we have in common in Meath and kildare recently. Is we have both have failed poorly v Ulster teams in recent times. In the last 5 years in a row ,Meath have been knocked out championship by Ulster teams. In the last 15 Meath has been knocked out by Ulster oppostion 7 times ( Tyrone twice, Amragh, Derry, Cavan, Fermanagh and Donegal ). Kildare also have been knocked by Ulster teams out of the championship 7 times in the last 15 years also eg Monaghan, Armagh, Tyrone twice ,Down , Donegal and Derry). Both counties have problem with Ulster teams modern tactics and style eg blanket defences , sweepers. Meath particulary with our kick and catch tradtional game(long kicks into forward line) is not fit for purpose anymore. You need to play a more posssesion handpassing in the modern game. Meath and also Down and Galway (other tradtional kick and catch counties ) have failed to deal with the new tactics in modern football. Galway in this league for the first time seem to have got to grips with modern football.


So I will finish up with a couple of Meath stats which emphasis a massive issue Meath need to resolve. Playing div 1 football has been a massive issue for Meath .


Meath have not played in div 1 in 12 years.
Meath have only played in div 1 once in the last 17 years.
Meath have spent the 15 of the last 17 years in div 2, 1 in div 3, 1 in div 1.
Meath have not played in an 8 team divison 1 in 22 years, since 1996 1997, the year we were All Ireland champions.


This constant div 2 residency and been beating by Ulster opposition 5 years in a row has drained the belief out of Meath players and fans. If we can get into division 1 stay there it would be a game changer for Meath. We have been so close, yet so far. People might be surprsied to hear this but Meath were just 1 win away from promotion o division 1 this year. If Meath defeated Cavan in this years league, Meath would have been promoted to division 1. Its the same carry on in 4 of the last 5 seasons. We have been only 1 win away from promotion in 4 of the last 5 seasons. For example if we defeated Down last year , we would have been promoted to div 1. The same way if we defeated Roscommon in 2015 and if defeated Donegal instead of drawing in 2014 we would have been promoted in both years to div 1. We have lost out to promtoion by point difference, score difference and head to head. We have been so near yet so far.
Mayo have shown with over 20 years permament residency in division 1, how important div 1 football is.

Sonny678

Thanks for the comments Mickeyk , ProudDUB, BonnieSituation, Seligehgit, Tombo2001, Paulie21 and Bambi your all gentlemen

klairondavis

Sonny678 wrote: »

Kildare have underage sucess we dont. Kildare have allot of things in place. Players like Doyle Kelly Feehily The Two Flynns are some of the best talent kildare have produced since Tompkins. They have had underage sucess and experienced div 1 football. They are a very mobile atletic team, a very modern gaelic football team. O Neill has put in good foundations . What kildare lack is belief because kildare are very close. If you look at the loses in the early stages of this league this year, and kildares loses to Donegal Monaghan in the championship in the last few years. They are all by 1 points. Which indicates kildare are really close. In comparsion Meath issues run deeper and and are very complicated. I have said before I think Glen Ryan with Earley and Doyle could be the management team to give kildare that belief. He was a real warrior as a player. And he did a good job with longford and kildare under 21. For me kildare have underage sucess,div 1 experience, and the young talent, for me kildare r now just a top class manager away from being a top class team. And for the sake of leinster football I hope you guys do beat Dublin and win leinster soon. Its not anything against Dublin per se, but for the future of leinster championship we need new champions very soon.

They're not, to be honest about it. They have talent but have consistently failed on the big day. The two Flynns blow hot and cold and both are very injury prone. Feely was the best since Niall Buckley and Martin Lynch as a minor but sacrificed too many of his formative years over in England with Charlton. He's a good player but he had the potential to be great. Aside from the Cork game down in Thurles, Kelly has flattered to deceive when Kildare have needed him most. Seriously talented but has yet to showcase it on the national stage. Still has time on his side to be fair to him. Unlike this generation, players like Earley, Sweeney, Foley and Doyle produced when Kildare's need was greatest.

I doubt there is a hope of Glenn Ryan getting involved with any Kildare team while Ger Donnelly is the county chairman. O'Neill won't be going anywhere this year anyway unless the team seriously jack it in over the next few weeks.

Stoner

Sonny678 wrote:

1920 30s Dublin had Kildare as a rival 1940s and 50s Meath had Louth and Dublin as rivals 1960s Meath had Offaly as a rival 1970s Dublin had Offaly as a rival 1980s Meath had Dublin as a rival 1990s Meath had Dublin Kildare and Offaly as rivals 2000s Dublin had Meath Laois and Westmeath as a rival 2010s Dublin have no rivals

I'd a large post on this that's I removed the other night.

Meath won 3 LSFC in a row in the 1980's buts that's all they won.

So did Offaly and Dublin.
Dublin were in 9 of the finals
I think Dublin played Meath 8 times in that decade with Meath winning 3 to Dublin's 5. There was a three year period that Meath went on a roll, their best ever yet two other counties matched it in Leinster in the same decade.

Meath didn't win a Leinster championship until 1986 in the 80's and that's after 80,81,82 going to Offaly and 83,84,85 going to Dublin. Dublin won again in 89.

Yes Meath won 2 AIs to Dublin's 1 in that period but Dublin overall in the 1980's won the most Leinster championships and beat Meath more than Meath beat Dublin.

Saying that Meath were the best Leinster team in the 1980's is untrue. Largly speaking meath missed half of the decade. Realistically they matched Offaly and had less wins than Dublin overall.
Being in 9 of the 10 finals in the 1980's Dublin shared the decade with Offaly (3), Meath (3) and Dublin (4)
Meath were in 5 finals in total.
So in the 1980's Dublin had Offaly and Meath as rivals in 9 LSFCs
Completely open to correction here


Meath came out on top of their Dublin exchanges the 90's again it think it was 5 to Meath and 3 to Dublin

However - This will annoy a number of posters!!! Dubs, RSF, Sonny


If we are going to be brutally honest

When Kerry were muck from 1987 on to their next great team.

Look at how many counties picked up AIs
Cork, Dublin, Meath, Down, Donegal, Derry. Most of the people from those counties think that their teams were fantastic then, but largly they won between great Kerry teams.
Realistically over about 40 years winning an AI when Kerry were poor was a lot easier imo

I'll include my own country.

1983 and 1995 Dublin beat Cork not Kerry along the way in both cases.

Meath in 87,88 and 99 it was Cork not Kerry that they played from Munster. In 1996 I'm fairly sure that Mayo beat Kerry and Meath beat Mayo. That's all Boylans wins I could be wrong.

Offaly on the other hand beat a great Kerry team in 1982, IMO the best Leinster performance of the decade, if not ever.

So I've bigged Kerry up, a lot of counties sneaked titles when they were poor

However on the flip side there are lots of stats around how long its been since teams have been beaten by Kerry, but they miss that period of time when Kerry were not great and if your team did get to play them they'd have a good chance of beating them.
IMO Dublin and or Meath had better teams than Kerry some of 87 to 96, but usually didn't get to play them as Cork beat them (Clare too)

Sonny678

klairondavis wrote: »

They're not, to be honest about it. They have talent but have consistently failed on the big day. The two Flynns blow hot and cold and both are very injury prone. Feely was the best since Niall Buckley and Martin Lynch as a minor but sacrificed too many of his formative years over in England with Charlton. He's a good player but he had the potential to be great. Aside from the Cork game down in Thurles, Kelly has flattered to deceive when Kildare have needed him most. Seriously talented but has yet to showcase it on the national stage. Still has time on his side to be fair to him. Unlike this generation, players like Earley, Sweeney, Foley and Doyle produced when Kildare's need was greatest.

I doubt there is a hope of Glenn Ryan getting involved with any Kildare team while Ger Donnelly is the county chairman. O'Neill won't be going anywhere this year anyway unless the team seriously jack it in over the next few weeks.

Still all very young. Buckley Earley were very talented and delivered on the big stage. But that team of 98 had some warriors eg Davy Dalton Wille McCreery Glen Ryan Anthony Rainbow. This kildare are still very young. Most of the players have 2 to 3 years before they peak. Time is on their side. Im a big fan of Feehliy. We couldnt deal with him in both games last years. He controlled and dominated the midfield from the start the finish, the main reason you guys won by so much. Kelly has the ablity to be top class centre forward. And Neil Flynn is a proper out and out natural inside forward, I think he is going to be a big player. There is hope, because they are young. O Neill will stay this year. I know what your saying about the county board and Ryan, But I think he is the man to push this team on. But I know myself in Meath county board politics is messy .

We are young also, but there is a serious lack of belief agmost ex Meath players currents players and fans . I have never seen confidence and belief so low in Meath. I think a couple of players we have lost have been a massive blow also.
eg The loss of Conor Gillespie ( who I believed would have became a top class midfielder, actually for me he looked as good if not better then John McDermont, he definatly was a better then John Mac when Big Mac was playing for Meath in early 20s) and the loss of Shane O Rourke . Shane O Rourke who I believed who could have became one of the best footballers in Ireland. David Bray another quality forward who was lost to injury.
Losing Conor Nash to Auzzie Rules is also another loss. He looked a serious player also, a big powerful midfielder. But if he stayed Leinster rugby would have snapped him up.
Midfield is a massive problem for the last 15 years , Menton has had 7 midfield partners since last spring. Even Mentons best position is at wing back. We havent a top class midfielder since John McDermont. Until we find one we aint moving forward anytime soon.

Sonny678

Stoner wrote: »

I'd a large post on this that's I removed the other night.

Meath won 3 LSFC in a row in the 1980's buts that's all they won.

So did Offaly and Dublin.
Dublin were in 9 of the finals
I think Dublin played Meath 8 times in that decade with Meath winning 3 to Dublin's 5. There was a three year period that Meath went on a roll, their best ever yet two other counties matched it in Leinster in the same decade.

Meath didn't win a Leinster championship until 1986 in the 80's and that's after 80,81,82 going to Offaly and 83,84,85 going to Dublin. Dublin won again in 89.

Yes Meath won 2 AIs to Dublin's 1 in that period but Dublin overall in the 1980's won the most Leinster championships and beat Meath more than Meath beat Dublin.

Saying that Meath were the best Leinster team in the 1980's is untrue. Largly speaking meath missed half of the decade. Realistically they matched Offaly and had less wins than Dublin overall.
Being in 9 of the 10 finals in the 1980's Dublin shared the decade with Offaly (3), Meath (3) and Dublin (4)
Meath were in 5 finals in total.
So in the 1980's Dublin had Offaly and Meath as rivals in 9 LSFCs
Completely open to correction here


Meath came out on top of their Dublin exchanges the 90's again it think it was 5 to Meath and 3 to Dublin

However - This will annoy a number of posters!!! Dubs, RSF, Sonny


If we are going to be brutally honest

When Kerry were muck from 1987 on to their next great team.

Look at how many counties picked up AIs
Cork, Dublin, Meath, Down, Donegal, Derry. Most of the people from those counties think that their teams were fantastic then, but largly they won between great Kerry teams.
Realistically over about 40 years winning an AI when Kerry were poor was a lot easier imo

I'll include my own country.

1983 and 1995 Dublin beat Cork not Kerry along the way in both cases.

Meath in 87,88 and 99 it was Cork not Kerry that they played from Munster. In 1996 I'm fairly sure that Mayo beat Kerry and Meath beat Mayo. That's all Boylans wins I could be wrong.

Offaly on the other hand beat a great Kerry team in 1982, IMO the best Leinster performance of the decade, if not ever.

So I've bigged Kerry up, a lot of counties sneaked titles when they were poor

However on the flip side there are lots of stats around how long its been since teams have been beaten by Kerry, but they miss that period of time when Kerry were not great and if your team did get to play them they'd have a good chance of beating them.
IMO Dublin and or Meath had better teams than Kerry some of 87 to 96, but usually didn't get to play them as Cork beat them (Clare too)

Thats fair enough, I would say Meath won a double All Ireland in the 80s to Offalys 1 and Dublins 1 . And I would say in poll articles or conversations I have never heard anyone say that Dublin 83 team and Offaly 82 team were better then the two in a row Meath team 87 88. But you are right Meath did not get going til 86 and Dublin reached so many finals. So Dublin were more consistent. But still the two best teams of 80s would have Kerry 80 81 84 85 86 and Meath 87 88. The only teams that put All Irelands back to back. Its that old GAA clich,e a very good team wins 1 All Ireland a great team wins All Irelands back to back. Dublin might have been consistent. But Meath had a greater team, better then Offalys. Offaly won a great final.

But But Meath won 2 and also had the best sucess rate any team had over Dublin in a short period of time ever. In 5 years 1986 to 1991 Meath played Dublin 9 times ( 8 in the championship and 1 national league divison 1 final ) and of those 9 Meath and Dublin games Meath lost once. ( 6 Wins, 3 draws and 1 lose). Meath also had a rivalry with the greatest Cork team ever ( A double winning Cork team). A team that also found it so hard to beat Meath . In 5 big matchs in Croke Park between Meath and Cork 1987 and 1990, Meath lost once to Cork in 4 All Ireland finals ( including a replay) and a national league division 1 semi final). The Dublin and Offaly teams wouldnt have had defenders of the class and greatness of Lyons O Connell and O Malley. Hayes and McEntee were the best midfield partnership in the country in the late 80s. And while Dublin had Barney Rock and Duff and Offaly had Matt Connor Meath had the best full forward line of the last 35 years and probaly only second to kerrys Sheedy Liston and Egan. Meath had O Rourke Stafford and Flynn.

In the mids 80s 0 Rourke was one of the best players in Ireland That Meath team has become legendary since. Ireland. Stafford between 87 and 91 was the best freetaker in Ireland. And Bernard Flynn between 1988 and 91 was the best corner forward. Meath had better forwards then Dublin in the 80s and the 90s and probaly the 00s. Even the 70s Rennick O Rourke and Kerrigan were as good as Dublin 70s forwards. And our forwards in the 60s 50s and 40s where better also with McDermont and Meegan. We always used to produce better forwards then Dublin the same way Kerry produce better forwards to Cork and Galway used to produce better forwards to Mayo.

This is one of the main reasons Meath went toe to toe with Dublin for 80 years. In a rivalry where Dublin had so many advantages in terms of resources and population to Meat. It was the most unequal rivalry in Irish sport . In that Tipp and kilenny are similar enough counties, Cork and Kerry while differences are more similar then Meath and Dublin . Tyrone v Armagh ,Galway v Mayo are also similar counties to each other. And while there are differences nothing compares to the differences and advantages that Dublin had over Meath for decades. And yet Meath went toe to toe with Dublin for 80 years and for many period Dublin couldnt Meath beat year after year eg Late 40s, early 50s, late 60s, late 80s and late 90s. Only Offaly in the early 80s had a similar period of sucess to the ones Meath had over Dublin in leinster. Only Kerry had periods of similar sucess over Dublin to the periods Meath had. It must be said Dublin had periods of sucess over Meath also eg late 50s, Late 70s, early 80s, mid 90s, 00s and now. Thats why it is a rivalry.

Meath always had better forwards then the Dubs, Gerathy Giles were better then Farrell or Redmond and O Rourke Stafford and Flynn were better then Rock Duff and McNally. Even in the 00s Geraghty Bray O Rourke Ward Sheridan Farell were as good as the Dublins forwards, better. Its only in this decade Dublin have better forwards. Meath forwards are division 2 . Dublin now have the best forwards of their generation, the best forwards in the country and the best set of Dublin forwards ever. Thats one big reason why Dublin have being sucessful and Meath not. ( Im sure Stoner is not going to agree and I expect a massive message back telling me how Ciaran Duff was better then Colm O Rourke) I wouldnt change my mind Stoner. We will agree to disagree. And leave it there, I look forward to your response all the same)

Lyons was the best full back in the 80s. Name a better one. And O Connell was the only modern player on the team of the milleniun. Michael O Muritigh said O Connell was the greatest number 7 wing back he ever saw play the game. And Michael Muritgh said Robbie O Malley was the best number two he ever saw,

Anyway , the rivals paragraph I did at the start was just a rough run through . This would be a more thorough run through below
Stats below to prove this

In the 1920s Dublin 3 time All Ireland winners had 2 time All Ireland winners and 6 time leinster winners kildare as a rival

In the 1930s Kildare 3 time leinster champions had Dublin leinster champions , Meath leinster Champions, national league division 1 winners and All Ireland finalist as rivals

In the 40s Meath 1 time All Ireland winners had louth multiple leinster winners and Carlow Wexford and Dublin all leinster title winners as rivals. Wexford and louth were also national league division 1 runner-up in this decade.

In the 1950s Meath 1 time All Ireland winners had Dublin 1 time All Ireland winners, Louth 1 time All Ireland winner and kildare leinster title winners and national league division 1 runner-up as rivals and so were Carlow national league division 1 runner-up .

In the 1960s Meath 1 time All Ireland winner had Dublin 1 time All Ireland winners, Offaly 2 time All Ireland finalist and Longford leinster titles winners and national league division 1 winners and kildare were national league division 1 runner-up as rivals

In the 1970s Dublin 3 time All Ireland winners had Offaly 2 time All Ireland winners , Meath All Ireland finalist leinster title and national league division 1 winners and kildare 4 times leinster finalist as rivals

In the 1980s Meath two time All Ireland winners had Dublin 1 time All Ireland winners , Offaly 1 time All Ireland winners and laois national league division 1 winners as rivals

In the 90s Meath 2 time All Ireland winners had Dublin 1 time All Ireland winners , kildare All Ireland finalist leinster title winners and Offaly leinster title winners and national league division 1 final winners as rivals

In the 00s Meath All Ireland finalist and leinster winners had Dublin multiple leinster final winners and kildare Westmeath and laois were all leinster title winners as rivals

In this decade Dublin 5 times All Ireland champions have no rivals full stop.

Only Meath have won 1 leinster title in 2010 in this decade outside Dublin. And Meath have fallen apart since. Not 1 leinster teams outside Dublin has a reached an All Ireland final this decade. No team in leinster has played consistent division 1 football. Dublin have not had to face strong division 1 opposition since mid 00s.

Thats my take, but Stoners take is just as good, my only issue is that Meath 87 88 had better teams then Dublin or Offaly in the 80s. Back to back All Irelands are always measured greater then single Sams. I think stats are coming out my ears at this stage .Anyone who disagrees with me We will agree to disagree. I cannot write anymore tonight me head is spinning with stats on 1980s football. So you guys , you have the floor.

Stoner

Yes two AIs in a row but they were when Kerry were poor Sonny, that's one of my points , I don't like it either, there was a touch if handiness to those titles 83,87,88,95,96,99.
There was zero for Meath from 74 to 86 when Kerry were flying and also that Dublin team were flying, Dublin had 4 AIs in that time. That's a significant reason why that Kerry team were considered to be so good.
Selecting irregular chunks of time can make stats look great. However I like your decade approach.

Also its not who had the most AIs it was about dominance in Leinster and between the three it's hard to select one.

With just 30 percent of the titles you'd couldn't say it was Meath. The Dublin 83 team was not great, they slipped past Kerry too. The 87 and 88 team slipped past Kerry too IMO.

TBH the 1980's was probably the best balanced recent decade for Leinster.

WRT the Offaly team, they beat possibly the best team of all time, the meath team didn't do that infairness.

O'Rourke was a very good footballer.
I think he was around in 1975/76.

I think Matt O'Connor for one was at a higher level to him. Again we can't just ignore 80,81,82,83,84,85 ie 60 percent of the decade in the analysis of players and stats just because Meath won nothing then.

BTW I think O'Rourke missed a penno against Dublin in the 79 LSFC final, in 1995 Dublin still had to double mark him, luckily we'd a big man in Paddy Moran showing up for Dublin for a couple of years, O'Rourke was gone the next year

Thanks for your posts Sonny

PS
Brian Mullins would have beaten your 88 team on his own!

Sonny678

Stoner wrote: »

Yes two AIs in a row but they were when Kerry were poor Sonny, that's one of my points , I don't like it either, there was a touch if handiness to those titles 83,87,88,95,96,99.
There was zero for Meath from 74 to 86 when Kerry were flying and also that Dublin team were flying, Dublin had 4 AIs in that time. That's a significant reason why that Kerry team were considered to be so good.
Selecting irregular chunks of time can make stats look great. However I like your decade approach.

Also its not who had the most AIs it was about dominance in Leinster and between the three it's hard to select one.

With just 30 percent of the titles you'd couldn't say it was Meath. The Dublin 83 team was not great, they slipped past Kerry too. The 87 and 88 team slipped past Kerry too IMO.

TBH the 1980's was probably the best balanced recent decade for Leinster.

WRT the Offaly team, they beat possibly the best team of all time, the meath team didn't do that infairness.

O'Rourke was a very good footballer.
I think he was around in 1975/76.

I think Matt O'Connor for one was at a higher level to him. Again we can't just ignore 80,81,82,83,84,85 ie 60 percent of the decade in the analysis of players and stats just because Meath won nothing then.

BTW I think O'Rourke missed a penno against Dublin in the 79 LSFC final, in 1995 Dublin still had to double mark him, luckily we'd a big man in Paddy Moran showing up for Dublin for a couple of years, O'Rourke was gone the next year

Thanks for your posts Sonny

PS
Brian Mullins would have beaten your 88 team in his own!

Stoner you know Im not going to agree with that now.
]
I will agree with something, Mullins was a great player, proper warrior, the goal he setup in the 1979 Leinster final where I think he loses the free wins a throw up and bursts through Offaly defence and Dublin score a winner, to beat Offaly in dying seconds, is one my favourite scores ever in a leinster final. He is a legend, Dublins best midfielder ever, but saying that young Fenton could take that crown.Most midfielders peak in late 20s, the greats are great from the start eg Jack O Se Brian Mullins Dara O Se Sean Cavangh and Fenton is one that list for me. When he reachs his peak he will be some player. Him and Callaghan are players you can build a new team around. Callaghan I think could become Dublins best forward ever hes like Dublin jimmy barry Murphy. Its scary the talent you boys have coming thru.

I agree also Matt Connor was better then O Rourke but for me no one is better then Matt Connor, the best forward I ever saw play was Matt Connor for me better then Gouch or Peter Canavan, the best forward of the last 40 years is Matt Connor. The balance he had never saw a player with such balance.He was the George Best of gaelic football, skillwise very skilful. Its hard to believe he retired in mid 20s. Imagine what he would have done if he kept playing. I would say he would have broke every record going.

Meath 70s team werent good enough to beat Dublin and kerry team. Offaly defeated Kerry, but they lost in 1980 1981 to Kerry and I do believe and quite a few people believe, Kerry froze in the last 15 mins of the 82 final. The 5 in row is the holy grail of Irish sport. Kerry or kilkenny couldnt do it, even Gareth Brooks couldnt do it. And you guys in Dublin will be going for the5 in a row next year, the excitement and talk about 5 in a row next year will be unreal. I think kerry in those final minutes got tenser and the pressure got to them. I think if it was a normal final kerry would have won like they did when they beat Offaly at ease in the 1981 All Ireland final and 1980 semi final. Offaly took their chance, a legendary goal, and legendary final. But many people kerry believe they threw that final away.

Meath didnt beat kerry, but they r from two different era, just as Kerry were ending as a team , breaking up in 1986 when that Meath were just starting in 86 . Its like saying the Tyrone team of 03 to 08 couldnt beat Dublin team of 11 to 18. They couldnt because they couldnt play each other when both were at their peak. Kerry team was a team from late 70s early 80s 1975 to 1986. It broke up in 1986-87. The Meath team was from late 80s early 90s. 1986 to 1991. That Meath team peaked in 1988 when they won the two in a row and defeated a very strong Dublin team in a national league divsion 1 final by 8 points with 14 men. Meath at their peak wouldnt have beaten kerry 1975 to 1981. But Meath at their peak I believe could have beaten Kerry in 84 85 86. Monaghan drew with kerry in 85 and Tyrone should have beaten them in 86. Meath were better team then Monaghan or Tyrone. When we played kerry inn1986 Meath team was just beginning, Martin O Connell was being played full forward. The team realy took shape in 1987 and peaked from then til 1990.

I still believe you judge teams on how many titles you won and how many great players. Meath won more titles and had more great players then Offlay.And any lists of great teams or any time I have heard great teams mentioned Meath 87 88 are always ahead of Offaly 82. I think Offaly people would agree. I have strong connections with OFfaly anf they will tell u 1971 72 Offaly double winnig team was better then 82. They won Offalys first title, a two in a row and beat kerry by 9 points in an All Ireland final which is kerrys worst final lost ever. That team is considered Offalys best team ever by many in Offaly.

Compare team
Offaly82 1 All Ireland , 3 leinster titles v
Meath 87 88 2 All Irelands , 5 leinster titles and 2 National league division 1 titles . Meath were more sucessful

Record v Dublin Offaly 82 (3 wins 2 loses),
Record v Dublin Meath 87 88 (6 wins 3 draws and 1 lose) Meath were more sucessful v Dublin

Best players Offaly had one Footballer of the Year on their 82 team Martin Furlong was voted footballer of the year ( Unbelievebly Matt Connor was never voted.)

Meath had 4 different players voted footballer of the year from the 86 to 91 team
Robbie O Malley ( Footballer of the year ) Martin O Connell ( Footballer of the year) Brian Stafford (Footballer of the year) Colm O Rourke ( Footballer of the year ).

Since footballer of the year was introduced in 1958, only two teams have ever had 4 footballers of the year on their team . The two teams were Meath 86 to 91 and Kerry 75 to 86 . 4 kerry footballers of the year were John O Keefe, Pat Spillane, Jack O Se, Pat Spillane

Offaly Best players Matt Conor Martin Furlong Liam Connor,Sean Lowry, Liam Currams, Tomas Connor, Richie Connor,, Brendan LowrySeamus Darby

Best players Meath Robbie O Malley Mick Lyons Martin O Connell Gerry McEntee Liam Hayes Joe Cassells David Beggy Colm O Rourke Brian Stafford Bernard Flynn.

I think a team with 4 footballers of the year surely is a better quality then a team with 1 footballer of the year.

when Kerry were poor Sonny, that's one of my points , I don't like it either, there was a touch if handiness to those titles 83,87,88,95,96,99.


The comment you say above is flawed your saying if Kerry are poor then who ever wins All Irelands when kerry aere poor win handy All Irelands. So lets examine teams who won All Irelands when kerry are poor. Kerrys poorest decades are 1960s 1990s and this decade. Im sure you know where Im going with this .

Kerry All Irelands wins for every decade below I have highlighted the worst decade they are 1960s, 1990s and this decade are kerry worst


1920s: 3 for Kerry ( 1924, 1926, 1929)
1930s: 5 for Kerry (1930-31-32-37-39)
1940s: 3 for Kerry (1940-41-46)
1950s: 3 for Kerry (1953-55-59)
1960s: 1 for Kerry (1969)
1970s: 4 for Kerry (1970-75-78-79)
1980s: 5 for Kerry (1980-81-84-85-86)
1990s: 1 for Kerry ( 1997)
2000s: 5 for Kerry (2000-04-06-07-09)
2010s: 1 for Kerry ( 2014)

Kerry won 1 All Ireland in the 1960s. During the sixties Down team won 3 All Irelands, Galway won 3 in a row. If we take your logic these would be handy All Irelands . I dont believe this. Many people consider the Down and Galway team of the 60s as two of the greatest teams ever. I would agree with that . If you take the logic that kerry were poor in the 60s. They were poor. Then Down and Galway 60s won handy All irelands.

Kerry won 1 All Ireland in the 90s. During Meath won 2 All Irelands ( a very highly rated team ) and so did Down win 2 All Irelands ( a very highly rated team). You also had Derry and Donegal best team, a highly rate Dublin team with 1 win , and the best team from Conancht in 50 years in Galway in 98 and greatest Cork team ever. I would agree with all the above.
But again if you take ur logic that kerry were poor, means handy All Ireland for Meath Cork and Down

Kerry have 1 All Ireland this decade. Again its not considered a great period for kerry. We have one of the greatenst teams ever 5 All Ireland winnig Dublin team , I agree with this they are. But if we take your logic that when kerry are poor , handy All Irelands r won. Then you must agree Dublins five All Ilreands are handy, I dont agree.
So Kerry are poor in the 90s and now in this decade so if you think that you must then think there was a touch if handiness to those titles 83,87,88,95,96,99 and also 2011, 2012, 2013, 2015, 2016, 2017. I dont agree.

Ask any Kerry person and they will tell this is a poor period/ poor decade for Kerry. Look at the defeat v Mayo last so similar to Mayo defeat of kerry in 90s. You wouldnt get anyone to say this is a great era for kerry in the kingdom, it along with the 60s and 90s and this decade their worst period in 100 years. For any other county yes this is a good era, but for kerry a county that wins 3 in a row, 2 in rows, 4 in rows this decade is poor for the kingdom.

It is a poor decade for kerry only 1 All Ireland , the 2014 team along with the 1997 team are the two poorest All Ireland kerry winners for 50 years
OOS team with 4 All Ireland and 2 in a row is better then this 2014 team
the 3 in a row 80s team is better then the 2014 team
the 4 in a row 70s -80s team is better then the 2014 team
The two in a row All Ireland team early 70s team is better then 2014 1 All ireland team.
Simply put 2014 team where not better then Kerry teams of 00s ( Cooper T O Se), 90s ( Fitzgerald Moyihan) 80s and 70s (P O Se J O Shea O Keefe , Spillane, Sheedy, Egan)
To show how poor this decade is for kerry its the first time kerry have never had an all time great player debut in a decade

In the 70s Sheedy P O se J O Se Spillane all made there debut
In the 80s Maurice Fitzgerald another all time great kerry player made his debut
In the 90s Seamus Moyihan Dara O se Tomas O Se more all time greats ade their debut
In the 00s Gouch Cooper Marc O Se D Sullivan Donaghy Galvin all made their debut all time greats

In this decade Kerry have not debuted one all time great player , a player who would considered the best in their position a kerry legend. Even in the 50s and 40s kerry players in that era or considered all time great debuted eg Mick O Connell. O'Sullivan, Kieran Donanghy, Paul Galvin, Tom O'Sullivan , Cooper, Aidan O'Mahoney have played in this decade. But All those players are 00s players they debuted in the 00s. Not 1 player that has debuted for Kerry since 2010 who would be considered an all time great player, one of the best in his position ever. And don't say Paul Geaney, even Paul Geaney or Donoghue wouldnt admit they r not up there with Cooper Fitzgerald Sheedy Long as kerry greats..T O se debuted in late 90s, Cooper in 2002, Donaghy in the mid 00s as well as D Sullivan and P Galvin.

So thats the way. I see it. I cannot write anymore. Thanks for the posts the Stoner. I always enjoy our talking football matters. I dont always agree, but I respect what you say, We will agree to disagree again. My hand I cannot write anymore. I hope that makes sense.

Sonny678

Stoner I think u mentioned about Meath only winning three leinster titles in row in the late 80s. For me that emphasises how much Dublin dominate the whole of the landscape of leinster for generations. It shows how hard is to beat Dublin and for other team to win leinster titles. How hard it is to get out of Dublins shadow. Like Dublin winnng three titles in a row in leinster wouldnt be a big event. Kilkenny or kerry winning mutliple provincial titles is not a big thing or an issue eitheir.

But in leinster teams winning back to back leinster titles is very rare. While the leinster has been competitive in the past where you have had at least two to hree top div 1 team s in the provience every decade. For a team to break out from under Dublins shadow it happens very rarely.Teams putting leinsters back to back, two or three in row leinster titles back to back, how often does it happen. Once a blue moon.

In 130 years outside Dublin only on 13 occassions in leinster footbal hisory have teams put leinster titles back to back . Only 4 times in the last 50 years has a team put leinster titles back to back outside Dublin I think that is very low number and a very revealing statistic. In that it shows how hard for a team outside Dublin to have consistent sucess in the leinster championship . Its 27 years since a team in leinster has won 2 in a row leinster titles other then Dublin . While Dublin have put mutiple leinster titles back to back on 12 occassions and that includes winnnig 5 leinster titles in a row on 3 occassions and winning 6 leinster titles in a row on 1 occasion and winning 7 leinster titles in a row on 1 occasion ( This is the current run Dublin r on in leinster).


Below are all the leinster titles counties have won back to back in Leinster football History ( Excluding Dublin)

1 Meath 1990 1991

2 Meath 1986 1987 1988

3 Offaly 1980 1981 1982

4 Offaly 1971 1972 1973

5 Meath 1966 1967

6 Offaly 1960 1961

7 8 Meath 1951 1952

8 Meath 1939 1940

9 Laois 1936 1937 1938

10 kildare 1930 1931

11 Kildare 1926 1927 1928 1929

12 Wexford 1913 1914 1915 1916 1917 1918

13 louth 1909 1910

Stoner

Sonny678 wrote:

Stoner I think u mentioned about Meath only winning three leinster titles in row in the late 80s.

I agree Sonny, I wasn't running it down , it was more that it was an achievement matched by Offaly and Dublin that decade and that it was a fairly even decade split between three teams

Stoner

Sonny678 wrote:

In the 00s Meath All Ireland finalist and leinster winners had Dublin multiple leinster final winners and kildare Westmeath and laois were all leinster title winners as rivals

Again I'd agrue that Dublin and meath being not great at that time allowed some teams to win in Leinster, Laois, Offaly, Westmeath, (I'm not allowed to add Kildare here KD will shoot me)

Sonny678

Stoner wrote:

I agree Sonny, I wasn't running it down , it was more that it was an achievement matched by Offaly and Dublin that decade and that it was a fairly even decade split between three teams

I know you werent running down the achievements. Its just to show how dominate Dublin have been. How hard is it to get out of Dublins shadow. Besides Dublin no team in leinster has put leinster titles back to back is 26 years.

Stoner wrote:

Again I'd agrue that Dublin and meath being not great at that time allowed some teams to win in Leinster, Laois, Offaly, Westmeath, (I'm not allowed to add Kildare here KD will shoot me)

Laois were brillant under Dwyer, their leinster final performance in 03 is one the best attacking performances I have ever seen in a leinster final. Westmeaths win under Paudi was a great achievement also in 04. The last romantic Football moment similar to Clare in 92 Leitrim in 93 kildare Galway 98. Kildares win in 2000 leinster final I would say along with Meath 1970 leinster final , say that kildares 2000 win was the greatest comeback in a leinster final ever and the 2000 leinster final was probaly along with 97 and 1970 and 1979 2003 were the best leinster finals in the last 50 years. laois Kildare and Westmeath had brillant teams at the start of the 00s.

I still dont get this idea of even split decade between Meath Offaly and Dublin in the 80s. Yes in leinster titles. But your placing leinster titles importance over All Irelands. In that 2 in a row Meath team with better players werent as good as 1 All Ireland winning Dublin team with players not as great. The same regarding Offaly.

Lets take ur logic into next decade.
Dublin won 4 leinster title and 1 All Ireland. They were more consistent then Down who won 2 Ulster titles and 2 All Irelands. Dublin won twice as many provincial titles then Down in the 90s. By your logic Dublin 90s were better then Down 90s. I would disagree for me Down 90s were betterteam then Dublin 90s. 2 All Irelands is better then 1 and Down beat Dublin in 94 also.

Dublin won 4 leinster titles and 1 All Ireland and played 3 All Ireland finals in the 90s.
Galway won 2 Connancht titles and 1 All Ireland and played in 1 All Ireland final in the 90s.
By your logic Dublin were more consistent then Galway, better then Galway. Dublin in the 90s won more provicial titles then Galway, Dulbin won twice as much provicial titles in the 90s . so Dublin 90s team were better then Galway 90s. I would disagree because Galway team in the end won 2 All Irelands and had greater players. Donnellan Joyce Fallon Finnegan Savage were better players then Sherlock Redmond Farrell and Galvin. I think very few would say Dublin team of 90s was better then Galway team of 90 Dublin team 92 to 95 was not as good as Galway team 98 to 01.

Dublin team were just as consistent as Meath in leinster in 90s. Dublin and Meath won equal leinster titles in 90s. Dublin and Meath both won 4 leinster titles each in the 90s. But again must people would say Meath team of 90s was better then Dublin team of 90, was much superior in that it won 2 All Irelands and had better players with Fay O Connell McDermont Giles Geraghty Murphy O Malley Stafford Flynn O Rourke. Also that Meath defeated Kerry by record 15 points in All Ireland semi final in 01 (Kerrys worst defeat in championship in 100 years). Dublin never defeated Kerry in the championship in 80s 90s or 00s . Meath were 4 games in row unbeaten v Dublin eg 96 97 99 and 01. And that Meath team defeated outside leinster, Cork Mayo Kerry Armagh ( soon Best Armagh team ever) and Tyrone all in the championship bewteen 96 and 01. Dublin between 92 and 95 defeated Clare, Leitrim and Cork outside leinster in the championship. There is a clear difference in the opposition Meath defeated in 90s to Dublin outside leinster. But they did equal number of leinster titles, so if you say Offay Meath and Dublin won equal number titles of 80s, they were all then equal teams, Then you have to say Dublin team of 90s was equal to the Meath of 90s. But when you look at achievements and All Irelands won Meath team 96 to 01 was much better then Dublin 92 to 95.

Galway team of the 80s and 70s were more consistent and won more much more Connacht titles then Galway team of 90s. Galway won 5 Connacht titles in 80s and reached 1 All Ireland final. Galway team of 70s won 5 Connacht titles and reached 3 All Ireland finals. But most Galway people would say the 90s team which in the 90s which won 2 Connacht titles and 1 All Ireland title was greater then Galways 70s or 80s team. Because All Ireland titles are seen as more significant then provicial titles and Galway had greater players on 90s team.

Dublin were more consistent in 00s in leinster then 80s 60s or 50s, they won more leinster titles , Dublin won twice as many leinster titles in 00s then in eitheir the 80s 60s or 50s.. Dublin won 6 leinster titles in 00s and 3 leinster titles in 80s and 3 in 60s and 3 in 50s. But you have to place the teams of 80s 60s and 50s ahead Dublin team of 00s because Dublin won All Irelands in 1983 1963 and 1958. I could give many more examples.

So again we go back Offaly Meath Dublin 80s..Meath had greater players and won 2 in a row All Irelands yet you say Offaly was a better team and Dublin were also near equal. It was fairly equal divided decade in leinster .But it wasnt for the big prize , the number 1, the top achievements in Irish sport which is winning All Irelands . Winning Sam Maguire is the biggest thing in Irish sport. Meath were more sucessful and had greater players in 80s. . Or if u think Offaly were better then you have to think Dublin 90s was better then Galway 90s. Which I dont believe is true.

The same way Dublin team of 00s was more consistent then Dublin team 80s 60s and 50s but for the Dubs the 80s 60s and 50s teams r better then 00s. Because they had better players in 80s 60s and won an All Ireland in 80s 60s 50s
.
Im sure Stoner your sorry you have brought this up. I keep on about Meath 80s like a broken record. I will leave it there. Im going to take a break for a while but I will be back in the summer when Meath lift the Delaney cup.

PS Of course I meant the Delaney Cup in 2033. When Trevor Giles jnr and the grand children of Sean Boylan knocked the Blue menance , sorry the Dubs from their perch. Talk to everyone in mid June when hopefully Meath have beaten longford and we have a Meath v Dublin semi final and hopefully Meath can keep the scores below 8 or 9 points. Where did it go wrong for us Royals. Peace.

Peatys

Sonny678 wrote: »

People are saying Leinster football is a joke uncompetitive at the moment, but other proviences particulalry Munster have been more uncompetitive for longer. Discuss whatever you want. Thats the point Im making.

It has one or two strong teams, same as the other 4 provinces. Yes Leinster is a joke compared to what Leinster used to be, but compared to the other 3 provinces, it's a very similar situation.

In fairness to Thomas O Shea, if he singles out Leinster with a high percentage of the population, he's going to get more clicks.. and that's the name of the game.