Tomas O Se says Leinster Football is a Joke

Sonny678

I cannot really disagree with this comment. This is the most uncompetitive leinster championship in 130 years. Meath are having their worst decade since 1920s. Kildare are also having one of their worst decades ( along with the 1980s) since 1920s. Offaly are having their worst decade since 1950s , since before they emerged on the football scene. Laois are having their worst decade since 1970s. While louth are going up and down divisions 4 3 2 yearly. Wicklow are stuck in division 4 after a good decade in the 00s. While Wexford are back in div 4 after having their best decade since the 40s in the 00s.

Only Dublin with their greatest team ever, Carlow having their best period in 30 years, Westmeath are having solid period with their first ever consecutive leinster finals appearances in a row and Longford are also making solid progess.

But overall this decade is an all time low for leinster football. Dublin havent had to face strong division 1 opposition ( a team in division 1 year after year) since early 00s. Compared to early 90s when you had 4 top division 1 teams in the proviences all wining leinster titles and playing in national finals . Compared to every decade or era when you had at least two top division 1 teams in leinster winning leinster titles and winning or at least reaching an All Ireland final. Its 17 years since a leinster team other then Dublin reached a All Ireland final. That has never happened before. So Tomas is right there.

But the issue I have is Tomas seems to have forgot or ignored that you could also say Munster football has been in the same situation for generations as leinster is currently. Kerry have dominated Munster football pretty much for 100 years the same way Dublin r dominating leinster football at the moment. He says leinster teams are beating before they ever enter the field v Dublin. You could say the same thing about Kerry in Munster for 100 years. There is an aura surrounding kerry down South where the rest in Munster for generations dont believe they can beat the kingdom.

Yes Tipp and Clare are making good progress recently . But will they beat kerry in a Munster final in the next 4 or 5 years. Theres no gurantee they will. Tipp havent won a Munster title in 80 years, Clare have won 1 Munster title in 90 years and limerick havent won a Munster title in 120 years. Waterford havent won a Munster title in 120 years also their only Munster title. That doesnt make for a very competitive Munster championship since 1900. The Munster championship has been won by Kerry or Cork every year since 1923 with the exception of victories by Tipperary in 1935 and Clare in 1992. Watterford havent beaten Kerry in Munster championship in 60 years. Tipperary havent beaten Kerry in the Munster championship in 91 years. And Limerick havent beaten Kerry in the Munster championship in 120 years. Clare have beaten Kerry once in the Munster championship in 80 years.

Look at the below stats, look at Kerrys sucess rate in Munster

1920s: 6 for Kerry (1923-24-25-26-27-29)
1930s: 9 for Kerry (1930-31-32-33-34-36-37-38-39)
1940s: 7 for Kerry (1940-41-42-44-46-47-48)
1950s: 7 for Kerry (1950-51-53-54-55-58-59)
1960s: 8 for Kerry (1960-61-62-63-64-65-68-69)
1970s: 7 for Kerry (1970-72-75-76-77-78-79)
1980s: 6 for Kerry (1980-81-82-84-85-86)
1990s: 5 for Cork (1990-93-94-95-99)
2000s: 6 for Kerry (2000-01-03-04-05-07)
2010s: 7 for Kerry (2010-11-13-14-15-16-17)

Then you take Cork. Cork and Kerry is the biggest myth of a rivalry in GAA. Most rivalries both teams have periods of domination or sucess over the other. Kilkenny and Tipp have great battles where supremacy swings from one to another. Mayo and Galway is very 50 50 rivalry if u take out Galways All Ireland wins. Mayo are sucessful for years then Galway are sucessful. The same with Meath and Dublin. For 80 years Meath went toe to toe with Dublin until this decade. For years Dublin teams couldnt beat Meath teams year after year ( Late 40s , late 50s, 60s, late 80s, late 90s) and for years Meath couldnt beat Dublin teams ( Late 50s, Late 70s, Early 80s, mid 90s , 00s ). Meath won 7 All Irelands to Dublins 9 in that 80 year period. With Meath having the same sucess rate as Dublin in 40s 50s 60s ( 1 All Ireland win each in each decade) and Dublin being more sucessful in 70s ( 3 All Irelands) and Meath more sucessful in 80s and 90s (Meath 4 All Irelands to Dublins 2). A very equal rivalry until this decade.

But with the exception of the late 80s and early 90s Cork have been second best to kerry since Independence. Kerry were the dominate force in Munster football in the 1920s, 30s,40s,50s,60s, 70s, early 1980s and 00s and this decade. There is the odd Cork year of sucess in between eg 1973 but overall you take out late 80s and early 90s , and pretty much for 90% of the last 100 years kerry have been top dog in Munster. Kerry always play up how how Cork good are. And they need a Cork Munster final to prepare them for the championship outside Munster.

There is no love lost between kerry and Cork and a Munster final with Cork and Kerry in killarney or Pairc ui Chaoimh is always a grand occasion. But usually always kerry win. look at how Cork couldnt beat kerry in Croke Park in 00s. Cork is a masive football county. Has more football clubs then kerry. Yet for many Cork GAA people hurling is number 1. Been defeated kerry yearly probaly meant Cork hurling is held in higher esteem down south. Cork for all their resources should be on double the All Irelands at least and double the Munster titles. But kerry have had them in metal vice grip for generations. And at the moment Cork are at their lowest since 1950s. That was the last time they were in divsion 2 and been beating by Tipp in the championship.

So when Tomas O Se says Leinster foot all is a joke he is right. But if he puts the same criteria to Munster football, that teams in Munster are beaten before they ever enter the field v kerry. Is Munster football a bigger joke for a longer period. Are am I been harsh on Tomas and Munster. ( Who happens to be one of my favorite players the since 2000).

Also there also being periods when Connacht and Ulster were one sided and had lean years. From 1900 to 1960 with the odd Antrim victory , Cavan dominated Ulster . Winning 20 or so Ulster tiltles out of maybe 21. Cavan had the same aura , Dublin have at the moment were teams were beaten before they entered the field for half century v Cavan teams in Ulster.

Down changed that in the 60s. While in the 70s and 80s Ulster football was very uncompetitive when teams came out of the province. It must be said there was conflict , a war basically in the north so that made it almost impossible for Ulster teams to prepare properly. Since 1990s the best teams, best players, best tactics, best managers have come from Ulster and it has became the strongest provience. With Down Donegal Derry Tyrone and Armgh all winning Sam. However with 4 All Ireland wins in the 90s and 4 more in the 00s. Ulster has only won 1 All Ireland in this decade so far. So has the provience of Ulster somewhat declined in this decade so far.

In Connacht the 1970s 80s and early 90s, Connacht championship was seen as weak also. However particularly Mayo have risen Connacht football promience in the game in the last 20 years. And Connacht teams at the moment have 3 top division 1 teams with Mayo Galway and Roscommon. But the fact is in the last 50 years Connacht teams have only won 2 All Irelands to Ulsters 10 All Ireland titles and Munsters 21 All Ireland titles and leinsters 17 All Ireland titles in the same time period.

All the proviences have had very bad periods and lean years. leinster is just having its least competitive currently. But even though there is a less sense of togetherness in leinster then Connacht or Ulster in the GAA. This decade will show that Ulster have won 1 All Ireland, Munster have won 1 All Ireland and leinster have won 5 All Irelands so far.

LeinsterDub

Is there a question in this post? What are we meant to be discussing?

Sonny678

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Is there a question in this post? What are we meant to be discussing?

People are saying Leinster football is a joke uncompetitive at the moment, but other proviences particulalry Munster have been more uncompetitive for longer. Discuss whatever you want. Thats the point Im making.

idnkph

It is a joke at the moment but it comes down to money invested in the county teams at the end of the day. Dublin are investing 12-13 million quid a year more than most other counties country wide. Until there are major changes in croker and the way things are done with investment then it'll continue this way. Dublin will dominate in the all Ireland as always. It's getting boring now and a huge reason people are losing interest in the great game.

LeinsterDub

Sonny678 wrote: »

People are saying Leinster football is a joke uncompetitive at the moment, but other proviences particulalry Munster have been more uncompetitive for longer. Discuss whatever you want. Thats the point Im making.

Generally when you start a thread you wish to start a discussion not just post a wall of text.

LeinsterDub

idnkph wrote: »

Dublin are investing 12-13 million quid a year more than most other counties country wide.

Citation needed! I'm going to need to see a reference for those numbers.

Fann Linn

Twas grand when Dublin were winning nowt between '95 and 2011.
It's a problem now for some unknown reason.

Fr Tod Umptious

idnkph wrote: »

It is a joke at the moment but it comes down to money invested in the county teams at the end of the day. Dublin are investing 12-13 million quid a year more than most other counties country wide. Until there are major changes in croker and the way things are done with investment then it'll continue this way. Dublin will dominate in the all Ireland as always. It's getting boring now and a huge reason people are losing interest in the great game.

But how come, this decade, counties with small dispersed populations like Mayo and to a lesser extend Donegal, have been able to go
toe to toe with Dublin, while the likes of Meath and Kildare suck ?

Lu Tze

Sonny678 wrote: »

People are saying Leinster football is a joke uncompetitive at the moment, but other proviences particulalry Munster have been more uncompetitive for longer. Discuss whatever you want. Thats the point Im making.

You are very much cherry picking your stats. Cork have won the all Ireland in the last decade which none of other teams in Leinster outside Dublin have done, and the stats are skewed as there are twice as many countries in Leinster than in Munster.

ProudDUB

Grumble...grumble...resources...grumble....population....grumble...rural depopulation...grumble...resources...AIG...grumble....grumble...

There.

Everyone happy now?

Close the thread.

Sonny678

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

But how come, this decade, counties with small dispersed populations like Mayo and to a lesser extend Donegal, have been able to go
toe to toe with Dublin, while the likes of Meath and Kildare suck ?

There are unique factors to Donegal and Mayo. Its something you hear directed at counties like Meath and kildare, but Mayo have a special unique feature thats driving them to all these finals that no other county in Ireland has .The 3 reasons why Mayo have suceeded are below.


Regard Donegal , they had the most charismatic, innovative, brillant manager of this era. Like Loughane in 95 or Griffin in 96 or Heffernan in 74, Donegal is another example of one individual capturing a counties attention and county players fans all united under 1 charismatic brillant manager. Donegal had the best manager of his generation.

Mayo have a couple of reasons , one is particularly unique to Mayo.
1 Mayo have spent longer in division 1 then any other county in Ireland. Mayo have been in division 1 since 1996 , 1997.

2 Mayo seem to produce , have a conveyor belt of inter county managers similar to kerry and Dublin. Some of them are not great, but they do produce alot of inter county managers. For example in the last 20 years Mayo managers at inter county level eg John Maughan, John O Mahoney, James Horan, Stephen Rochford, Kevin McStay, Peter Forde, Pat Holmes, Noel Connelly.

In comparsion Galway have produced very few inter county managers of any decent standard. Who is the greatest Galway football manager ? Kevin Walsh, Liam Sammon, they have never had one. Look at us in Meath we dont produce many inter county managers. Outiside O Brien O Dowd and McEntee, name a Meath man who has managed an inter county team in this decade. I think Offaly had a Meath man a couple of years ago . And in the 00s Coyle managed Monaghan and Hayes Carlow. Meath Galway and Cork dont produce as many inter county managers as say Kerry Dublin Mayo or even kildare. Carew, Glen Ryan and luke Dempsey all kildare men have managed inter county teams in this decade outside kildare. Mayo always seem to have a good quality manager in charge eg O'Mahoney in 89, Maughan in 96 97, Horan in 2012 , 2013 and Rochford in 2016, 2017.

3 And the third reason and the major factor in driving Mayo to all these finals.

Mayo have produced quality footballers and top class managers for the last 15 years. But whats driving Mayo to 4 All Ireland finals in 6 years, which has never happened before ( A county losing 4 finals in 6 years). To keep coming back is remarkable and you have to admire their bravery. But its become so important to Mayo people to win Sam. Its like the county, the players, the fans are on a crusade to win Sam. In that so many times you hear Mayo fans ' before I die I want to see Mayo win Sam'. It means so much to Mayo people. Winning Sam would mean more to them then any other county. Its become a counties dream, almost obession to end the famine and break the curse. Thats what driving these brave Mayo footballers.


I think if Mayo had won in 2012 or 13 they wouldnt have reached the last 2 finals. I know its hard to prove. But Mayo quest for Sam is being driven by the passion and hunger of a county desire to win an All Ireland that has become so important to every man woman and child in Mayo. Very admirable passion. No other county in Ireland has this sort of unique experience that Mayo have of losing 9 finals in 25 years , that is unprecedented, and leading to Mayo teams drive to end the famine of 70 plus years and break the curse.

rossie1977

Clearly Dublin are far ahead of everyone else but Kildare are building a nice team and should be competitive in a few years, meath are decent and would probably give any team outside Dublin/Kerry or Tyrone a game in the qualifiers.

There are simple solutions to making the Leinster more interesting. One is obviously that no match outside the final should be in croke park and even the Leinster final should probably be rotated between croke park, Thurles, pairc ui chaoimh, clones and/or castlebar every 4 years.

Sonny678

Lu Tze wrote: »

You are very much cherry picking your stats. Cork have won the all Ireland in the last decade which none of other teams in Leinster outside Dublin have done, and the stats are skewed as there are twice as many countries in Leinster than in Munster.

Facts, these are facts, I am not skewing any facts, below is a summary of Munster counties sucess rate outside the big Two and kerrys titles per decade.That is not skewing anything. Below are facts.

1 Tipp havent won a Munster title in 80 years
2 Clare have won 1 Munster title in 90 years
3 limerick havent won a Munster title in 120 years
4 Waterford havent won a Munster title in 120 years also their only Munster title.
5 The Munster championship has been won by Kerry or Cork every year since 1923 with the exception of victories by Tipperary in 1935 and Clare in 1992.
6 Watterford havent beaten Kerry in Munster championship in 60 years.
7 Tipperary havent beaten Kerry in the Munster championship in 91 years. 8 Limerick havent beaten Kerry in the Munster championship in 120 years. 9 Clare have beaten Kerry once in the Munster championship in 80 years.

10
1920s: 6 for Kerry (1923-24-25-26-27-29)
1930s: 9 for Kerry (1930-31-32-33-34-36-37-38-39)
1940s: 7 for Kerry (1940-41-42-44-46-47-48)
1950s: 7 for Kerry (1950-51-53-54-55-58-59)
1960s: 8 for Kerry (1960-61-62-63-64-65-68-69)
1970s: 7 for Kerry (1970-72-75-76-77-78-79)
1980s: 6 for Kerry (1980-81-82-84-85-86)
1990s: 5 for Cork (1990-93-94-95-99)
2000s: 6 for Kerry (2000-01-03-04-05-07)
2010s: 7 for Kerry (2010-11-13-14-15-16-17)

Fann Linn

rossie1977 wrote: »

Clearly Dublin are far ahead of everyone else but Kildare are building a nice team and should be competitive in a few years, meath are decent and would probably give any team outside Dublin/Kerry or Tyrone a game in the qualifiers.

There are simple solutions to making the Leinster more interesting. One is obviously that no match outside the final should be in croke park and even the Leinster final should probably be rotated between croke park, Thurles, pairc ui chaoimh, clones and/or castlebar every 4 years.

The Leinster final should be played in Tipp, Cork Mayo or Ulster?
Mad Ted.

Sonny678

rossie1977 wrote: »

Clearly Dublin are far ahead of everyone else but Kildare are building a nice team and should be competitive in a few years, meath are decent and would probably give any team outside Dublin/Kerry or Tyrone a game in the qualifiers.
.

This has been a dreadful decade for Meath and kildare.

In this decade kildare have reached only 1 leinster final. They have had 3 relegations in 5 years. They currently have lost 10 games in a row. They have lost their last 6 games in Croke Park in the last 3 years. They havent won a match in Croke Park in the championship in 5 years. They have only won in Croke Park 3 times in the championship in this decade. They have lost their last 35 of their last 40 matchs in Croke Park. They havent won a leinster senior semi final in Croke Park in 9 years since 2009.

11 And they have had some of the worst defeats in their history in the last decade, record defeats to Dublin and Kerry. Two defeats v Dublin recently are their two worst defeats in the leinster championship in 100 years for kildare football. kildares 19 point defeat to Dublin in 2015 is kildares worst defeat to Dublin since 1897 ( Dublin 5 -18 Kildare 0-14) . The 7 goal hammering v Kerry in 2015 is the worst defeat for kildare in the championship outside leinster in 100 years ( Kerry 7 -16 Kildare 0-10). Other bad defeats (Cork 2-19 0-12 in 2012).
( In terms of the leinster senior championship, the stats show kildare are not the second most sucessful team in the leinster championship in this decade which most people would probaly believe. They are the fourth. Dublin r number 1 of course with 7 senior titles, Meath r second with 4 leinster final appearances and 1 title, Westmeath have 2 leinster final appearances and kildare have 1 leinster final appearances along with Louth who also have 1.)

It is also Meaths worst decade since the 1920s, if Meath dont reach an All Ireland in the next 2 years it will be first decade since 1920s that has happened. Meaths lose to Dublin in 2014 is Meath worst lose to Dublin since the 1920s. There was bad loses in 95 ( but Meath were ahead with ten mins to go), early 60s and 1955 ( but that Meath team was overhil in 55 after winning the final with the oldest team ever in 54) . 2014 was first time in hundred years a Meath v Dublin match was over by half time. Meath have also spent 12 years outside division 1 . And had their first loses in the championship ever to Tyrone Armagh and famously to Westmeath in 2015.

LeinsterDub

rossie1977 wrote: »

Leinster final should probably be rotated between croke park, Thurles, pairc ui chaoimh, clones and/or castlebar every 4 years.

And Wembley, Stade De France and Mars since we are talking pure gash.

Sonny678

LeinsterDub wrote: »

And Wembley, Stade De France and Mars since we are talking pure gash.

Why is it when you mention the uncompetiveness of leinster which is a genuinie and real concern the Dubs get all touchy and take it as some sort of go at the Dubs. I can give you 20 reasons why Meath have declined and none of them have anything to Dublin. Meath and kildares decline have nothing to do with Dublin.

I remeber in the 80s and 90s when the Dubs werent so touchy and u could have a discussion and the crack about anything with them. Now if you Dont say brillant things about their team and if u bring up all the other problems in football, the Dubs get very touchy. We r entitled to ask questions. The same way the Dubs were asking questions between 1996 to 2010 when they couldnt get to a final. Just because everything is rosey in the Dublin garden we dont all have to say its greats for us all in leinster. This is the worst decade least competitive leinster championship in 130 years . That is a fact. There should not be any issue about talking about the crisis in leinster football.

Dublin are the one of the greatest teams ever. But other counties in leisnter and throughout the country eg Down Armagh Galway Derry Cork are having their worst decade in generations. There shouldnt be an issue or problem about talking about this.

Fann Linn

Sonny678 wrote: »

Why is it when you mention the uncompetiveness of leinster which is a genuinie and real concern the Dubs get all touchy and take it as some sort of go at the Dubs. I can give you 20 reasons why Meath have declined and none of them have anything to Dublin. Meath and kildares decline have nothing to do with Dublin.

I remeber in the 80s and 90s when the Dubs werent so touchy and u could have a discussion and the crack about anything with them. Now if you Dont say brillant things about their team and if u bring up all the other problems in football, the Dubs get very touchy. We r entitled to ask questions. The same way the Dubs were asking questions between 1996 to 2010 when they couldnt get to a final. Just because everything is rosey in the Dublin garden we dont all have to say its greats for us all in leinster. This is the worst decade least competitive leinster championship in 130 years . That is a fact. There should not be any issue about talking about the crisis in leinster football.

Dublin are the one of the greatest teams ever. But other counties in leisnter and throughout the country eg Down Armagh Galway Derry Cork are having their worst decade in generations. There shouldnt be an issue or problem about talking about this.

Nothing touchy about pointing out ludicrous suggestions ie playing the Leinster final in Ulster, Munster and Connacht.

EICVD

idnkph wrote: »

It is a joke at the moment but it comes down to money invested in the county teams at the end of the day. Dublin are investing 12-13 million quid a year more than most other counties country wide. Until there are major changes in croker and the way things are done with investment then it'll continue this way. Dublin will dominate in the all Ireland as always. It's getting boring now and a huge reason people are losing interest in the great game.

It’s not getting boring at all, I’m even pissed off im not in the country for our hammering of Wicklow or Offaly

rossie1977

Fann Linn wrote: »

Nothing touchy about pointing out ludicrous suggestions ie playing the Leinster final in Ulster, Munster and Connacht.

Ulster final was played in Leinster (croke park) for a number of years so why is it so ludicrous exactly.

It would ensure a neutral venue and 38k in Thurles creates a better atmosphere than in croke park

theoneeyedman

Let's forget about Dublin for a minute, and focus on Leinster.

The other Leinster counties are very poor, and have been for probably 10 years. Kildare, Meath have population, economy, and location and are not producing good teams. For instance, 3 Connacht teams in Division 1 next year, none from the rest of Leinster. In fact if you want to find a Leinster team look in Division 3 or 4. Laois played Division 4 this year, a county with a big population. None of the other Leinster teams would win Connacht, Ulster, or Munster. Counties like Offaly, Laois, Meath, Westmeath, in the doldrums.
I don't care how strong Dublin are, these counties should be very competitive in the league and the qualifiers.

howiya

rossie1977 wrote: »

It would ensure a neutral venue and 38k in Thurles creates a better atmosphere than in croke park

Should the Munster final be played at a neutral venue?

Sonny678

rossie1977 wrote:

Ulster final was played in Leinster (croke park) for a number of years so why is it so ludicrous exactly.

rossie1977 wrote:

It would ensure a neutral venue and 38k in Thurles creates a better atmosphere than in croke park

I think you have a fair point about taking Dubs out of Croker. But a leinster final in Thurles. I dont know if that is a runner. As a Meath man I want to play Dublin in Croker not Navan or Tullamore. But there should be a 30000 stadium in leinster. A stadium built in Tullamore or Athlone which could take in Munster hurling Connacht footbal games and big qualifier matchs . A leinster final in 35000 stadium in Athlone or Tullamore would be ideal. But aint going to happen.

What I would do. And you have to make sure ur not penalising Dublin eitheir. But all leinster q final and semi finals outside Croker should be considered. And Dublin should play all their league matchs in Parnell Park. Whoever decided that Dublin should play league matchs in Croker again it was a great idea for Dublin. Dublin moved back to Croker in the league in early part of this decade. And from that moment Dublin have been almost unbeaten in Croker. Playing all league matchs at home in Croker is a help to Dubs. You have to be careful not penalise them. But for me playing league matchs in Parnell Park is a runner. But I doubt the Dubs will go back. Again it must be said Dublin have a golden generation of players great managers and serious volunteer work being done at ground level across the capital are reasons they have suceeded . But moving them from Croker for league games I think that makes sense . Its a serious advantage having basically all championship matchs in Croker and all home league matchs in Croker.

Sonny678

theoneeyedman wrote:

Let's forget about Dublin for a minute, and focus on Leinster.

theoneeyedman wrote:

The other Leinster counties are very poor, and have been for probably 10 years. Kildare, Meath have population, economy, and location and are not producing good teams. For instance, 3 Connacht teams in Division 1 next year, none from the rest of Leinster. In fact if you want to find a Leinster team look in Division 3 or 4. Laois played Division 4 this year, a county with a big population. None of the other Leinster teams would win Connacht, Ulster, or Munster. Counties like Offaly, Laois, Meath, Westmeath, in the doldrums. I don't care how strong Dublin are, these counties should be very competitive in the league and the qualifiers.

Lets focus on other strong football counties plummeting recently
1 This is Downs worst decade since 1950s
2 This is Derrys worst decade since 1960s eg Div 4 currently
3 This Armghs worst decade since 60s eg 3 out of 4 years in div 3
4 This is Corks worst period since 1950s. In div 2 beating by Tipp uncompetitive v kerry.
5 This is Galways worst decade in 100 years so far. Galway havent won a match in championship in Croker in 17 years. This would be the first Galways first decade they have not reached an All Ireland since independence if they dont in next 2 years. Galway havent reached a semi final in 17 years.
6 This is Offalys worst decade since 50s. Offaly have reached a leinster final in every decade since the 50s. This will be the first one they havent if they dont this or next year.
7 This is laois worst decade since 70s eg Div 4 this spring
8 This is Meath worst and one of kildares worst decades since 1920s.

Thats allot of counties which 20 or 15 years ago were winning provicial titles and even All Irelands. Alot of counties are bottoming out together.

Poor_old_gill

Meath and Kildare have fallen off a ridiculous amount- they have really gone to sh*t.

I know Dublin have an awful lot in their favour and thats fine but jeez its embarrassing how crap Meath have become and how crap Kilare became (although they have improved).

Meath lost to Cork and Tipp this year and would def lose to Kerry so they would prob be number 4 in Munster- theres a need to address the over funding that Dublin have had but some counties in Leinster need to look closer to home as well.

Tombo2001

Really disappointing the way this thread has gone, op has tried to set up an honest debate about the dismal state of Leinster football outside the capital.... that comment about ‘talking pure gash’ a great exam0le of the really offensive type of comment that is standard fare in internet discussions, but wouldn’t ever be said to someone’s face. The OP was just fine for anyone with any reasonable attention span, very worthwhile discussion.

Sonny678

Poor_old_gill wrote:

Meath and Kildare have fallen off a ridiculous amount- they have really gone to sh*t.

Poor_old_gill wrote:

I know Dublin have an awful lot in their favour and thats fine but jeez its embarrassing how crap Meath have become and how crap Kilare became (although they have improved).

Poor_old_gill wrote:

Meath lost to Cork and Tipp this year and would def lose to Kerry so they would prob be number 4 in Munster- theres a need to address the over funding that Dublin have had but some counties in Leinster need to look closer to home as well.

What about Laois Offaly Derry Wexford Down Armagh Cork and Galway ( I know Galway had a good league but the next two championships will tell us where Galway are, but up to this years championship this has been Galways worst decade in generations).
Down lost 15 games in a row recently, next year Down r in Div 3. Offaly are permanently in div 3 or 4. Laois are in div 4 this spring, Derry are in div 4 next year. And so are Wexford. Armagh have spent 3 years in div 3 recently. That hasnt happened to Armagh since the the 60s. Armagh won Ulster titles in 70s 80s 90s and 00s. This will be first decade in half century they havent won a provincial title if they dont this year or next year. Cork are also at an all time low. Its extraordinary how many counties who were so sucessful so recently have reached all time lows together.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

lawred2

Sonny678 wrote: »

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Is there a question in this post? What are we meant to be discussing?

People are saying Leinster football is a joke uncompetitive at the moment, but other proviences particulalry Munster have been more uncompetitive for longer. Discuss whatever you want. Thats the point Im making.

Could have been made in about one line really...

First thing that popped into my head when I saw the thread title anyway.

Sonny678

theoneeyedman wrote:

The other Leinster counties are very poor, and have been for probably 10 years. Kildare, Meath have population, economy, and location and are not producing good teams. For instance, 3 Connacht teams in Division 1 next year, none from the rest of Leinster. In fact if you want to find a Leinster team look in Division 3 or 4. Laois played Division 4 this year, a county with a big population. None of the other Leinster teams would win Connacht, Ulster, or Munster. Counties like Offaly, Laois, Meath, Westmeath, in the doldrums. I don't care how strong Dublin are, these counties should be very competitive in the league and the qualifiers.

Population and resources doesnt gurantee sucess. One example, Wicklow.

Wicklow has the population resources economy a d location . Wicklow have a very strong club scene. Yet with all these advantages they are in bottom 2 or 3 counties out of 32 in the whole country. Only themselves and Fermanagh have never won a provincial title. And they only won their first match in Croker in the championship a couple of years ago eg mid 00s. So Wicklow shows pop resources dont gurantee sucess.

Take limerick a sportsmad county. Great strong GAA tradition and scene. Big population and resources yet in hurling Limerick have only won 1 senior hurling title in 90 years. And in football limerick havent beaten kerry in the championship or won a Munster senior football title in 120 years.

Take Antrim. Now I know half the population is not going to play. But when you see Monaghan doing so well. Antrim with pop location and resources should be doing better. Yet Antrim havent won a Ulster football title in over 75 years.

Take Kildare. Kildare have always had location pop resources yet they have only played in 1 senior All Ireland final in 90 years. Have never won a minor All Ireland title or a national league division 1 title and only won 1 provicial leinster title in 42 years between 1935 to 1997.
Resources or Population dont gurantee sucess. Its much more complicated.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

Dyr

Fann Linn wrote: »

Twas grand when Dublin were winning nowt between '95 and 2011.
It's a problem now for some unknown reason.

It's been grand for decades when Kerry get out of bed, scratching their arse and sleepwalk through Munster into a semi-final.
How many of the last 50 munsters did they win? Over 30?

Sonny678

Yes Meath have being crap, or inconsitent would be a better word. But I dont know how much kildare have improved in that they have lost their last 11 matchs in a row and lost 6 games in Croker in over 2 years. People might be shocked to hear kildare have actually being the 4th most sucessful county in the leinster championship so far this deacde.

I have feeling O Neill might go this year, coachs dont really make good managers. And Glen Ryan might take over. He did a good job with longford. And he has the golden touch with kildare. kildare have been in 4 finals at all levels in 90 year, two of them involved Ryan one as senior captain in 98 and second one as under 21 manager in 00s. Ryan was proper warrior as a player. And one of my favourite players from that era. Ryan with Doyle and Earley as selectors could bring kildare on because they do have some good young talent. But I dont think they have improved much recently when you look at their actual record. They came close to some teams in div 1, but Mayo Tyrones Dublin and Kerrys are playing at 70%, in the league. Those counties are trying to peak in August, while Kildare and Galway and every other county has to peak twice in a year, once in the league and second in the championship. And kildare and Galway were probaly taking the league at near to 90 or even 100%. Look at how Roscommon kildare in 2013 Derry and Cork in recent years 5 or 6 years had similar leagues to Galway but all followed up with dreadful championships. We wouldnt know Galways true worth til mid summer.

Sonny678

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

There are great gaa people in Wicklow and a strong club structure , might not be sucessful, but there are good clubs there. And they definalty have the population resources location and economy. They should really have 2 to 3 All Irelands titles and up to 10 leinster titles instead of having won 0 provicial titles with the above advantages. But it shows its very complicated. Population and resources and ecomony dont gurantee anything.

Chesty08

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Really disappointing the way this thread has gone, op has tried to set up an honest debate about the dismal state of Leinster football outside the capital.... that comment about ‘talking pure gash’ a great exam0le of the really offensive type of comment that is standard fare in internet discussions, but wouldn’t ever be said to someone’s face. The OP was just fine for anyone with any reasonable attention span, very worthwhile discussion.

Agreed.

As already pointed out , it was all well and good when the Dubs were asking questions on why they couldn’t get to All Ireland final and now other counties question , Dubs immediately go on the offensive.

No doubt about it they have a talented bunch who deserve what they have achieved but least not forgot there is other members within the GAA who deserve to be treated similarly.

Fann Linn

Chesty08 wrote: »

Agreed.

As already pointed out , it was all well and good when the Dubs were asking questions on why they couldn’t get to All Ireland final and now other counties question , Dubs immediately go on the offensive.

No doubt about it they have a talented bunch who deserve what they have achieved but least not forgot there is other members within the GAA who deserve to be treated similarly.

There are 12 county teams in Leinster and each one has an equal say when it comes to organising Championship fixtures. There is absolutely nothing Dublin could do if opposing teams decided they wanted to play them in their own back yard instead of Croker.

LeinsterDub

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Really disappointing the way this thread has gone, op has tried to set up an honest debate about the dismal state of Leinster football outside the capital.... that comment about ‘talking pure gash’ a great exam0le of the really offensive type of comment that is standard fare in internet discussions, but wouldn’t ever be said to someone’s face. The OP was just fine for anyone with any reasonable attention span, very worthwhile discussion.

What do you think moving the Leinster final will achieve? It is a completely stupid suggestion.

Fann Linn

LeinsterDub wrote: »

What do you think moving the Leinster final will achieve? It is a completely stupid suggestion.

If you say that you're being offensive, defensive or touchy.

But yes, it is a stupid suggestion.

ProudDUB

Sonny678 wrote: »

I have feeling O Neill might go this year, coachs dont really make good managers. And Glen Ryan might take over. He did a good job with longford. And he has the golden touch with kildare. kildare have been in 4 finals at all levels in 90 year, two of them involved Ryan one as senior captain in 98 and second one as under 21 manager in 00s. Ryan was proper warrior as a player. And one of my favourite players from that era. Ryan with Doyle and Earley as selectors could bring kildare on because they do have some good young talent. But I dont think they have improved much recently when you look at their actual record. They came close to some teams in div 1, but Mayo Tyrones Dublin and Kerrys are playing at 70%, in the league. Those counties are trying to peak in August, while Kildare and Galway and every other county has to peak twice in a year, once in the league and second in the championship. And kildare and Galway were probaly taking the league at near to 90 or even 100%. Look at how Roscommon kildare in 2013 Derry and Cork in recent years 5 or 6 years had similar leagues to Galway but all followed up with dreadful championships. We wouldnt know Galways true worth til mid summer.

Typical mindset.

Get in one of the usual suspects from the managerial merry go round, for no other reason than he is a big "name." Don't put his recent track record under too much scrutiny. Isn't he a big shot, big name & what could possibly go wrong? And if all else fails, shure isn't there always Banty. He's besties with Marty Morrissey, so at least we'll get lots of lurve from RTE. Everybody's happy. We're still crap, but everybody in the committee room is happy.

Or get in a couple of former players who are legends within the county & who are sure to get an easy ride from the public and the media because of it. Again, don't put their coaching experience, track record, or even their ability TO actually coach under too much scrutiny. They are legends of the game, so what does that of any aul malarkey matter?

Rinse and repeat.

Is it any wonder so many counties are fcuked before the championship even starts?

BonnieSituation

Anyway... It was nice to see someone other than myself banging the "Munster is a sham" drum.

I'm surprised the mental suggestion to rotate Dublin between the provinces hasn't been aired yet.

keeponhurling

It is a bit of a zero sum game though. the same number of teams win Sam each year, get to the finals, semi finals and so on.

For every Cork, Down, Meath or whoever who are having a bad decade, you could point to Tipp, Monaghan, Donegal, Roscommon, Clare or whatever counties who are having a better decade than usual.

Tombo2001

Fann Linn wrote: »

If you say that you're being offensive, defensive or touchy.

But yes, it is a stupid suggestion.

Charming.

Great that the two of you can cheer each other on.

Tombo2001

keeponhurling wrote: »

It is a bit of a zero sum game though. the same number of teams win Sam each year, get to the finals, semi finals and so on.

For every Cork, Down, Meath or whoever who are having a bad decade, you could point to Tipp, Monaghan, Donegal, Roscommon, Clare or whatever counties who are having a better decade than usual.

Yes and no.

The current Leinster situation is similar to Ulster in the 1920s/ 1930s when Cavan won 25 out of 30 titles.

Thats really what its been like in Leinster since 2005 or so.

The difference is that presumably at that time, Cavan was football mad whereas it really wasnt all that big in other counties, particularly in Northern Ireland.

Not one of Tyrone, Donegal, Armagh, Derry or Down won an Ulster title before 1950. All football strongholds now. When they get their act together the can compete.

Whereas Gaelic Football is probably the number one sport in pretty much every county in Leinster right now, and despite that none of them have a chance of beating Dublin.

And to be fair, chances are none of the Ulster counties would beat them either - if they were in Leinster.

Tombo2001

LeinsterDub wrote: »

What do you think moving the Leinster final will achieve? It is a completely stupid suggestion.

Nice bit of strawman work there.

I never commented about moving the Leinster final. I never referred to any talk about moving the Leinster final.

Great that you can win an argument that doesnt exist. It will no doubt impress your buddy.

danganabu

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Whereas Gaelic Football is probably the number one sport in pretty much every county in Leinster right now, and despite that none of them have a chance of beating.

Dont think you are going to be let away with that now Tombo!

Sonny678

keeponhurling wrote:

It is a bit of a zero sum game though. the same number of teams win Sam each year, get to the finals, semi finals and so on.

keeponhurling wrote:

For every Cork, Down, Meath or whoever who are having a bad decade, you could point to Tipp, Monaghan, Donegal, Roscommon, Clare or whatever counties who are having a better decade than usual.

Theres a difference a massive difference.
lets look at the facts

The problem is the counties who are having a bad decade are strong traditional football counties. They are are strong football strongholds. And what happens if Mayo Monaghan decline and no one takes there place at the top table. Galways record since 60s is patchy. For example Galway havent won in the championship in 17 years in Croker. And Galway didnt win in the championship in Croker between 1984 and 1997. They havent beaten Kerry in 53 years or Dublin in over 90 years in the championship. They have only beaten 5 top division 1 teams outside Connacht in half century eg 1971 Down 1998 Derry Kildare 01 Meath Armagh. Theres no gurantee Galway will step up to mark. What about in Ulster. The Monaghan team declines and break up Derry Down Armagh none of them look like they are going to take on Dublin pretty soon. And there is serious question mark over Tyrone. And when Harte leaves they could go the way of Meath after Boylan or Man Utd after Ferguson. When a sucessful manager decades in charge leaves that team always seem to decline.

Anyway the issue is so many strong football counties having hit an all time low. It would be like Galway Wexford Waterford limerick Clare and Cork all having their worst decade ever in hurling collectively. Meath Cork and Down are in the top 6 most sucessful counties. Not to long ago the 3 of them together won 8 All Irelands in 12 years. There has never been a decade when those 3 together were so low all together at the same time. For the last 80 years Cork and Meath have been the most consistent sucessful counties along with Dublin and Kerry. There has never been a decade where Cork Down Meath Galway kildare Offaly Laois Armagh Derry have all together had such a bad era. That is unprecedented and quite unusual.

Regards counties doing well you listed. But Donegal are the only won who made a serious impact in this decade the same way Down did in the 60s and 90s, Meath did in the 40s 50s 60s 80s and 90s, the same way Offaly did in 70s 80s and Armagh made in 90s and 00s.

Monaghan have had a good decade ,best in 30 years. But they still havent reached an All Ireland semi final. Compare that to Derry Donegal Down achievements All Irelands in the 90s or Armagh or Tyrone achievements in the 00s. Roscommon are finishing the decade strong but they still havent reached an All Ireland semi and made the impact Galway did in the late 90s or Mayo have in the 90s 00s and this decade. They are still a young team and have promise. But they still have allot to do to make an impact the same impact the last great Roscommon team did with 4 Connachts in a row, National league division 1 titles and All Ireland final appearance in the late 70s , 1980.

Clare are making good progress with a shrewd manager and have ended the decade well. But they are a division 2 team and have reached just 1 quarter final. Compare that to a Munster team who really made impact eg Cork team reached 4 All Ireland finals in a row winning 2 87 to 90. Will Clare be able to match the achievements of 92 Munster winners. Tipp reached the semi final 2 years ago. They have potential and some excellent players and shrewd manager. But they are still in division 2 and have not won a provincial title yet. Compare that to kildare in the late 90s who won 2 provicial titles defeated Dublin twice and kerry once and reached an All Ireland final . Will Tipp win 2 Munsters beat kerry Dublin twice and reach All Ireland final in the next 2 to 3 years. Maybe they will. But there is no guarantee they will.

The two points Im trying to make our never before have we seen so many strong football counties bottoming out. Its not that they r having a bad decade. They are having their worst decade in generations, pretty much their worst decade ever. While counties like Tipp Monaghan and Clare are having good periods and derserve enormous credit for this. The fact is they are not making the impact on the championship that Armagh did in the 00s or Galway did in the late 90s or a Meath did in the 80s or 90s or Offaly did 70s or 80s. In that these teams where winning multiple proviencal titles and All Irelands. None of the above have made that sort of impact. Theres a serious difference in the impact Clare Tipp and Monaghan have made and the impact Derry Donegal Down made in the 90s.

Regards the leinster championship Dublin have always being strong but the current situation in leinster is similar to Cavan in the 30s and 40s in that Dublin have no real challenge or rival in the provience in years. Thats unprecedented.

Stats below to prove this

In the 1920s Dublin 3 time All Ireland winners had 2 time All Ireland winners and 6 time leinster winners kildare as a rival

In the 1930s Kildare 3 time leinster champions had Dublin leinster champions , Meath leinster Champions, national league division 1 winners and All Ireland finalist as rivals

In the 40s Meath 1 time All Ireland winners had louth multiple leinster winners and Carlow Wexford and Dublin all leinster title winners as rivals. Wexford and louth were also national league division 1 runner-up in this decade.

In the 1950s Meath 1 time All Ireland winners had Dublin 1 time All Ireland winners, Louth 1 time All Ireland winner and kildare leinster title winners and national league division 1 runner-up as rivals and so were Carlow national league division 1 runner-up .

In the 1960s Meath 1 time All Ireland winner had Dublin 1 time All Ireland winners, Offaly 2 time All Ireland finalist and Longford leinster titles winners and national league division 1 winners and kildare were national league division 1 runner-up as rivals

In the 1970s Dublin 3 time All Ireland winners had Offaly 2 time All Ireland winners , Meath All Ireland finalist leinster title and national league division 1 winners and kildare 4 times leinster finalist as rivals

In the 1980s Meath two time All Ireland winners had Dublin 1 time All Ireland winners , Offaly 1 time All Ireland winners and laois national league division 1 winners as rivals

In the 90s Meath 2 time All Ireland winners had Dublin 1 time All Ireland winners , kildare All Ireland finalist leinster title winners and Offaly leinster title winners and national league division 1 final winners as rivals

In the 00s Meath All Ireland finalist and leinster winners had Dublin multiple leinster final winners and kildare Westmeath and laois were all leinster title winners as rivals

In this decade Dublin 5 times All Ireland champions have no rivals full stop.

Only Meath have won 1 leinster title in 2010 in this decade outside Dublin. And Meath have fallen apart since. Not 1 leinster teams outside Dublin has a reached an All Ireland final this decade. No team in leinster has played consistent division 1 football. Dublin have not had to face strong division 1 opposition since mid 00s. kildare have spent 3 years in divsion 1 this decade. Two of them they were relegated. This will be the first decade ever you will not have a Leinster team outside Dublin winnining or at least reaching a national league division 1 final.


Stats Below

In the 1930s Meath won national league division 1 title and kildare were in divsion 1 for years

In the 1940s Meath won national league division 1 title and Louth were in divsion 1 for years. Louth and Wexford were national league division 1 runner-up in this decade also.

In the 1950s Meath won 1 national league division 1 titles, kildare were in division 1 for years and reached a national league division division 1 final , while louth were in division 1 for most of the decade and Carlow were national league division 1 runner-up in this decade also.

In the 1960s Meath and Offaly were in divsion 1 for most of the decade and kildare reached a national league division 1 final.

In the 1970s Meath won national league division 1 title and Offaly and kildare were in division 1 at the start of the decade

In the 1980s laois and Meath won national league division 1 titles each. Offaly were in divsion 1 at the start of the decade

In the 1990s Meath won 2 national league division 1 titles and Offaly won 1 national league division 1 title. kildare were years in division 1 and reached a national league division 1 final in the early 90s.
.
In the 00s Meath and laois reached national league division 1 finals and kildare spent periods in divsion 1.

In this decade No leinster team outside Dublin has won or even reached national league division 1 final. Any teams from leinster that have reached division 1 in this decade have all pretty much being relegated the year after .

Sonny678

It seems to me and its only my opinion that the Dubs have gone very defensive when anyone mentions the state of leinster football or football in general. I think they see it as having a dig at Dublins credentials as a great team. It is definitely not. You can talk and anaylsis the state of leinster football and say it has never been as poor. That in no way takes away one bit from the greatness of this Dublin team. We can say Mayo are a brillant team but until they win Sam they are a flawed one. We can talk about the demise of strong football counties but none of this impacts of Dublin greatness or place in history.

Why because it's all about the titles. In golf your greatness is judged on how many majors you can win. The same in tennis how many Wimbledons you can win. In soccer its how premier leagues or European cups you can win. In football its how many Sam Maguires you lift. Dublin have won a 3 in row and 5 in total and they should win more on the way. There place in history is certain and there is widespread recognition by everyone in the gaa world that this Dublin team is one of the greatest teams ever and if they win 4 in a row they will be second greatest and if they win 5 in a row or 9 titles in total they are the greatest. And some people believe they are the greatest ever already. So Dubs dont have to get so touchy. Everyone accepts the brillance of this Dublin team. But that doesnt mean we cannot ask questions when we see other issues eg the state of leinster.

When Dublin didnt reach a final in 16 years the Dubs were asking questions. And for me I actually find the Dublin response surprising. If Meath or Cork or Down or kildare or Armagh are brought up, the general reaction in Dublin is basically its your own fault , hard luck. And Mayo and Donegal are always mentioned and it is said well if Mayo can do it , why cannot u guys. Nothing to see here its your own fault your in the mess u r. No mention that Donegal had a charismatic brillant best manager of his generation or that Mayo everyone in Mayo man woman and child are on passionate crusade almost to end the famine break the curse. Winning an All Ireland means more to Mayo then any other county. Mayo have unique driving factors pushing them to finals.

Thats fair enough. There is truth to that. It is our own fault I can give u 20 reasons why Meath have declined. And not one mention of Dublin. But when Meath teams were beating Dublin teams year in year out in the 80s and 90s, and Dublin couldnt beat kerry teams in 70s 80s and 00s and Dublin teams couldnt beat Ulster teams like Donegal Derry Down Tyrone and Armagh in 90s and 00s. And Dublin went from 96 to 2010 without reaching final. I have to say the GAA in general didn't turn their back on Dublin and didnt say its your own fault, hard luck. In the early 00s after defeats to kildare loais and Westmeath The Dubs got plenty of support when allot of people accepted we needed a strong Dublin. And when Costello wrote that report which set out Dublins future the gaa backed Dublin and GAA were supportive of the Dubs coz they realised the importance of a strong Dublin. It wouls be great if Dublin would now recognise the importance of a strong leinster championship. Just even discussing it without getting so defensive would be a good start. The fact is GAA is made up amateurs. And the true spirit of amateurism is we are all part of a community, a GAA community and we should try and make sure that always remains so.

Its in Dublins future interest that there is a more competitive leinster and strong counties like Galway Down come back to the fore. We have to be fair to the Dubs also. When kerry and kilkenny were winning multiple titles questions of finances were not mentioned. So we have to be fair to the Dubs. But we also should be able to talk about finances and Dublin and it is something that is being talked about in GAA circles up and down the country. But it has got very little attention in the mainstream media. There is the odd article and particularly Mckenna talking about it. But I do find it strange the Sunday Game which loves contervesey has never mentioned the Dubs and their financial clout. That is a strange one

But let me be clear Dublins sucess is down to a golden generation of players brillant managers and an army of volunteers coaching in clubs across the capital. We can mention the finances in that more can be done for other counties. But if we mention it doesnt take away from the achievements of this great Dublin team. And their greatness is accepted widespread in GAA world.

The issue I have is what is coming down the tracks. And its not a money issue its a population issue. Dublin should dip in the 2020s. They will remain strong but shouldn't be as dominate. There is a consensus out there that kilkenny and kerry were dominate nationwide for decades. This is false.When kerry or kilkenny had great teams afterwards they dipped. Then kerry particularly would pick up an All Ireland now and again between great teams eg 1997 2014.

After kerrys great 4 in a row team in the 30s kerry dippped, after kerrys greatest ever team in late 70s early 80s, kerry went 11 years without Sam. After Meaths greatest teams ever s Meath have declined. After Wexford 14 to 18, Galway 64 65 66 , Cavan 40s 50s all.had great teams and all the counties declined or dipped after sucess. After Tipperary had their greatest team in early 60s with 4 All Ireland wins the following decade Tipp had a nighmare period and it was not til 1987 they returned to the top of the table. Kilkenny have a dipped a little since 4 in a row but only for Cody they would have dropped more.

So we should see Dublin decline a bit when the great team break up and Cluxton Connolly and Brogan retire. If Dublin continue to dominate like they do now on a national scale in 2020s 2030s then that would be unusual. If we see more three in a row four in a row Dublin 8 out of 10 All Ireland in 2020s and 2030s then we are looking at something that is out of the normal.

I think a issue could be population. In the next 20 30 years we will population growing in Dublin. We will see a masive growth in age group 12 to 18. I think 400000 will in secondary schools for the first time. The Dublin team is very popular and you could see a massive increase in numbers playing gaa in Dublin. You are already seen across the capital 100s of young players being coached by all the great Dublin clubs. And that is admirable. Also u see suburbia middle class gaelgoir Dubs ( alot of them with country parents) turning on mass to GAA. Even Dalkey Bonos parish is winning an All Ireland club title, even 15 years ago that was unthinkable. Its a perfect storm brewing down the line for Dublin for future sucess. Even kildare and Meath are becoming football nurserys for Dublin as the population increase in both thoae counties is having no positive impact on GAA there.

What you could see is a conveyor belt of inter county talent the likes we have never seen before coming down the tracks. The only thing that is different from this great Dublin team and other great football teams is the strenght of depth of panel. Never in the history of football have we seen the depth of a panel that Dublin have currently. Dublin won the All Ireland last year with their greatest forward of the last 35 years and one of their greatest ever Bernard Brogan on the bench. Also on the bench was Connolly, probably the most talented Dublin footballer ever and Flynn the best wing forward I have ever seen and Mcauley former footballer of the year also on the bench. You basically had nearly 4 former footballers of the year on the Dublin bench. Now that is unprecedented. The great kerry team of 70s and 80s did not have that sort of talent on the bench..The Meath teams of 80s and 90s had one supersub and that was it eg Mattie Mcabe Jody Devine. The same you could say for Great Galway Offaly Down Armgh Dublin teams of the past.

I cannot think of any team that won Sam with so much talent on the bench. Dublin basically have two teams of intercounty players at the moment. If Dublin entered a second team they would compete well and could reach a leinster final at least. A second Dublin team won the Bryne Cup last year. Lets say this population increase leads to more conveyor belt of talent. Dublin having 3 or 4 or 5 teams inter county standard teams of players , this could happen. Look at how Small basically a brillant inter county player appears on the scene.Or how Callaghan who looks like Dublin Jimmy Barry Murphy appears on the team. After having 3 of the greatest Dublin forwards ever recently, Callaghan has that much talent and promise he could become the greatest Dublin player since Heffernan. If Dublin continue to produce such talent throughout the next 20 years or so the All Irelands will surely follow by the bucketload.

And if this domination continues this is where it will bite Dublin. You will see a lack of interest where we could see an All Ireland semi final like we had in 1982 when 15000 turned up to see kerry and Dublin. When it starts to hit GAA confers the GAA will then act and Colm O Rourke much ridiculed idea of two Dublin teams could happen. Dublin wouldnt be split but you could see a Dublin A team and Dublin B team play in the championship. Penalties against Dublin and other issues will arise.
So its in Dublins interest to see a stronger leinster championship. Its in Dublins interest to talk about strong counties in decline. To be defensive is not the way I knew the Dubs would act in 70s 80s and 90s and 00s. And simply put when Dublin won leinster in 1955 1958 1974 1984 1989 1992 2002, when they won a leinster title back then it was celebrated like an All Ireland win, it meant so much to the Dubs. Now the Dubs have to almost force themselves to cheer another Delaney cup victory. Its a pity , the next generation of Dubs might never feel the passion the tension and magic of a proper Meath v Dublin leinster final. A competitive Meath play v Dubs and before kick off no one is sure who will win , Dublin or Meath. That would be a pity.

It must be said also, that we need to be fair to the Dubs. This is not Dublins fault. Their sucess is down to talent and hard work by player managers and underage trainers and coachs. Fair play to them. But if you have a leinster championship like it is at the moment continuing forevermore, thats in no ones interest.

Of course the Dubs can keep saying its your own fault look at Mayo. But just to discuss the issues in football doesnt lessen the greatness of this team and in the long term its in Dublins own interest to see a stronger leinster championship and strong football teams nationwide. Imagine in 2025 Dublin v Down final or in 2027 A Dublin v Cork final or in 2030 a Dublin v Meath All Ireland final where Down Cork and Meath have a genuine chance of beaten Dublin. That would be great for football but also great for Dublin.

But sure what do I know Im just one of those bitter Meath smelly ranchers what would we know. Its all our own fault. But it was also all Dublins own fault when they reached no final in 16 years. The GAA community supported the Dubs then. Dublin ask not what the GAA can do for you but what can u do for the GAA. Or simply at least discuss and at least talk about football problems without getting so defensive. We need to see more of that world famous Dublin charm and crack and not being ao bloody serious and defensive .

dixiefly

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Citation needed! I'm going to need to see a reference for those numbers.

I agree and I am a meathman!

This guy sonny also posts under the name furlong on the Meath Hogan Stand site and other posters have long since told him to go and start a full thread for his encyclopedic offerings.

I certainly dont have the time to read this and I wonder how he gets the time to write this continued massive posts. Why use 100 words when you can posts 1000 words instead?

seligehgit

Sonny678 I'm going state emphatically how much I enjoy reading your encyclopaedic bodies of work.:)

Somebody has got to stand up for you.:D

Are you sure you're not a Mayo man in disguise?You have a great understanding of the Mayo psyche.

Sheep breeder

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Agree and the county board bend over for baltinglass

Sheep breeder

Sonny678 wrote: »

There are great gaa people in Wicklow and a strong club structure , might not be sucessful, but there are good clubs there. And they definalty have the population resources location and economy. They should really have 2 to 3 All Irelands titles and up to 10 leinster titles instead of having won 0 provicial titles with the above advantages. But it shows its very complicated. Population and resources and ecomony dont gurantee anything.

Problem county board can not see beyond their own clubs and screw the small clubs and change the playing fields to suit there own agendas